Break Up with Randy Moss?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from emiliosCA. Show emiliosCA's posts

    Break Up with Randy Moss?

    As is noted on ESPN, and take a read on WEEI (http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/football/patriots/kerry-byrne/2010/01/13/dump-randy-moss?page=0,0), there is this article talking about the merit of parting ways with Moss to remake the team.  The thinking is that the pats haven't gotten rings since bringing moss and welker in and going aerial - so let's jump back into the time machine (in a sense)!

    Although draft picks with a good crop of D prospects would be awesome, I think its a little too knee-jerk to consider trading Moss and not because of the pain of parting ways...  The pats need a productive running back or big play threat in the back field and a reliable #3 receiver in the arsneal.  We were way too predictable and one-dimensional on offense and its a testament to Moss that with that sort of offense he got those numbers.  Moss opened up a lot for the offense and because of personnel it only resulted in an awesome season for Welker.

    Some say Brady isn't spreading the passes out to everyone - which is definitely a key ingredient to a successful offense - but neglect to mention how that would have played out giving Aiken, Watson, or Baker the ball more often (imagine a gumball machine falling over and breaking).  He didn't have faith and with good reason!  The experiment (if you can call a record-breaking core that) isn't over and we can't go back in time to the SB teams!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Sort of a ridiculous argument.  Just because 2 things happen at the same time does not make them related.  The Pats didn't win the SB 2 years before Moss arrived either.  I've also noticed the Chargers haven't won a SB since Rivers arrived, maybe they should get rid of him.  The Ravens haven't won a SB since Suggs arrived, he must be the problem.  Come to think of it, the Pats haven't won a SB since I sold my Patriots sweatshirt, so my sweatshirt is the problem. 

    I think the Pats can get better by replacing bad players with good ones, not replacing good players with bad ones.  If Brady had a TE or 3rd reciever who could catch he would probably spread the ball more.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    The argument doesn't have a lot of merit. I seem to remember an 18-1 season where the Pats lost in the SB. I also remember Moss being pretty vital that season. Because the Giants came to play that day and punched the Pats in the mouth, Moss was not responsible for that loss.

    I do think the Pats need a more balanced offense and this season relied too much on the pass, almost like they were trying to duplicate the 07 season. The fact is however that teams adjusted to that and the Pats didn't bring anything else to the table. The ground game in 07 was a direct result of the passing attack and didn't expose the OL's lack of run blocking ability as much as it did the past 2 years.

    All good teams have a play maker at WR and the Pats need Moss.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    There was a time when Brady threw to the guy that was open. Nobody got big stats because Brady spread the ball around to a whole bunch of guys. That's all we would hear during the Super Bowl years. Now we baby sit Moss and wait to see if he is going to play hard the next game. What way is that to run a football team? The best you could hope for is for the Pats to get two more top flight young receivers to go along with Welker, Moss, Edelman and Tate. All six guys play hard unselfish football. There is no I in team. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Keep Moss, but get a talented young guy to line up opposite him.  Moss has lost a step, but he's still a good receiver--and he'd be an absolutely great second receiver behind a young star who was a real deep threat. The Pats need that young star to force teams to single-cover the aging Moss.  That Pats are already good in the slot with Welker/Edelman, but they need another deep threat to complement Moss.  Add a good pass-catching TE and a reasonable back-up wideout and you have a championship caliber receiving corp.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from k-maxx. Show k-maxx's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    There are 3 problems with our offence and none are Moss

    1) We have an O-line that can't block.
    2) A running back that su_cks (Maroney).
    3) A clueless non-Coordinator.

    Brady and Moss will be healthy and ready to go next season.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    K-Maxx.....completely agree.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    A classic case of the "post hoc propter ergo hoc" fallacy--it happened after this, so it must be because of this.  Usually not a good conclusion to draw.

    Or is it?  Logically, it makes sense that if a QB has two great WR's to throw to, the QB will begin to zero in on those two WR's and not go much further.  Part of the reason the QB doesn't go much further is that one of those two is open on the majority of the throws.  In this case, Welker.  So as crazy as it may sound that having two elite receivers could hurt a QB, if both the QB and the offensive system do not take actions to prevent it, perhaps it can. 

    Prior to 2007 Brady had to look at every player downfield.  He had to do this on most every pass play.  Think about that.  That's a whole lot of practice and mental discipline-building at scanning the field.  I think that is one of his key skills that led to him having the "clutch" factor he seems to have lost somewhat.

    Can using a GPS diminish your ability to read a map? Yes.  Can using a calculator diminish your ability to perform math in your head? Yes.  Can using auto-spell correction diminish your spelling abilities? Yes.  Can having star WR's diminish your ability to scan the entire field and find the open guy?  Hmmm.... that's a predicament that takes some serious bowling balls to resolve.  Who is willing to say getting rid of an elite WR is good for your team?  I guess Jerry Jones is.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rick8795. Show Rick8795's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Writers need something to write about...

    This would be up there with a story speculating on trading Tom Brady...to the Dolphins.

    Pure grist, nothing more.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    That argument is flawed and most did a good job of pointing that out. The 2 years b4 81, and so on. Blaming Randy Moss is the uneducated way to go about deconstructing the Pats. Go get Marshell , Breaston, or Evans. This team needs a number 2 rec now, something people are missing. WW wont be back until NOV-DEC at best and when he does comeback hes not going to be the same guy, sorry thats the truth. Get one of those guys pre. Marshell and get Sceffhller at tight end. Go get a back in the draft and our O is about 70% fixed. We need  a O-linemen, but not a whole new line. This O can be fixed this year if they really want it bad enough. Your gonna have to spend some $ and cut a couple of guys that have been around here, but hey thats the beast.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

     If we get rid of Moss we might as well trade Welker at the same time because without Moss pulling a double and triple coverage welker would have no open middle to operate in.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Is Brady locked on his two targets because they're so good or because the other guys are so bad? The only receiver who was consistently open this year was Welker.  Moss was constantly double covered, and the other receivers just weren't good enough to get open very often.  If the other receivers were better, teams would have been forced to pull the coverage away from Moss sometimes to deal with other open guys.  As it was, teams could key on Moss and cover everyone else (except Welker) one-on-one.  Brady forced a lot of balls into coverage this year, something he never used to do. This may have been poor decision-making on Brady's part--but a lot of it may have had to do with the fact that no one was open and Brady had to do something with the ball.  I think Brady forced a lot of balls to a covered Moss figuring at least Moss with his height and great hands had a chance of catching the ball while completely covered. The other receivers (again, excepting Welker) weren't going to get open and weren't going to win any battles when covered so Brady just gave up on them. Either that, or Brady forgot how to play football while he was off a year ago.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    I posted yesterday we do not need a #3 #4 receiver we need a #1.  Moss is still a dangerous receiver but not what he used to be.  He needs to be opposite a play maker, young tall fast receiver, Vincent Jackson or Brandon Marshall although I think he would be detrimental to the team concept.

    I don't consider Moss a true #1 anymore, should we get rid of him only if you get a #1 which will not happen.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Moss is definitely a top WR.  They could use someone opposite him, not necesarily a star.  IF they want to pay a lot they could trade for Bolden or sign a FA WR and let Moss go next year.  Then again they could use that money to help the improve the D. IMO they sign a serviceable guy along the lines of Gaffney - who'd be a marked improvement over Aikens et al. 

    Tate will be healthy next year and HE could very well be the prime receiver in  2 years.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

      I dont think getting rid of Moss, is the answer. The problem is, we do not have enough balance. This article is completely  flawed.  He states that no team has ever won a championship because of a great wide receiver. He list all of these recievers and thier average stats (By the way, there were some great recievers on these teams). THATS THE WHOLE POINT! It's not the stat sheet that wins games. If you have a receiver that takes two defenders with him, it takes the pressure off the other ten guys on the field. If you took the top reciever off any of those teams, I guarantee that 3/4 of those teams fail to win a championship. If we want to fix the Pats, we need to get a top notch running back, and defense, defense, defense!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    K-MAXX... I agree also with your premises as long as #3 is talking about OC not DC too. I thought the defensive Coordinator was ok as he did as well as expected with the available tallent.
    1) We have an O-line that can't block.
    2) A running back that su_cks (Maroney).
    3) A clueless non-Coordinator.
    Brady and Moss will be healthy and ready to go next season.

    1) I have to think that the Oline will change quite a bit. Kaczur will be at RT and they will draft or sign a RG Koppen will play Center, Mankins will be back at LG and Vollmer at LT. THat is a much more powerfull Oline.
    2) I have to think drafting a RB is the #1 need they have.
    3) I wanted Weis but that is out... I think they need to find someone for that slot at times I think Brady lacked confidence in his coordinator. This is my only worry this off season as I think they will make the right moves improving the players but I could see Belicheck being stubborn about his Offensive Coordinator.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

         shananingan, you stated the following: 

         "Sort of a ridiculous argument.  Just because 2 things happen at the same time does not make them related.  The Pats didn't win the SB 2 years before Moss arrived either.  I've also noticed the Chargers haven't won a SB since Rivers arrived, maybe they should get rid of him.  The Ravens haven't won a SB since Suggs arrived, he must be the problem.  Come to think of it, the Pats haven't won a SB since I sold my Patriots sweatshirt, so my sweatshirt is the problem. 

    I think the Pats can get better by replacing bad players with good ones, not replacing good players with bad ones.  If Brady had a TE or 3rd reciever who could catch he would probably spread the ball more."

    RESPONSE: Bullseye, shanny!! Great retort to this ridiculous argument. Randy Moss is not the problem. But, it fits the media template that Moss is "a cancer". For most of the season, Moss was jammed at the line of scrimmage, and was constantly double-teamed...because the Pats had nothing at WR other than slot man, Wes Welker. Teams were willing to give up the underneath stuff to Welker...but wanted to stop the big plays Moss provides as their top priority.

         It also didn't help that the OL couldn't handling good, blitzing teams...so Tom Brady rarely had time to set his feet and throw deep.

        The truth is that the Patriots don't have the level of talent at LB, CB, DL, WR, RB, and OL, as the SB teams did...and...its' starting to show. The Pats haven't beaten an elite team since 2007.    

      
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Moss isn't the problem. The problem lies in the fact we have no other outside receiver that can take advantage of a 1 on 1 matchup. Add to it the lack of consistency in a running game, seems like last year it was up and down all season. We do need to bring in a right side Offensive lineman and a TE that defenses need to respect. Then we'll have an offense, that can be balanced and hurt you in many ways. So that's 4 positions on offense that need to get addressed in Free Agency, Draft, or Trades this offseason. Then to really help it get a real OC on board.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    In a word NO. Moss may have lost a step or two but he's still a deep threat. The problem is he's the only threat beyond 10 yards (first 10 being Welker's and Faulk's territory). We need another downfield receiver and we need Brady to drop his fixation with Moss. As long as Moss is willing to play for short money I see no reason to cut him.

    I do agree that we need an OC with a playbook larger than 1 page.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    I like what Moss brings and I think he stays,But people this double and triple covering of Moss stuff needs to stop. He's covered by most teams the way most #1's are. Lets all not forget those short arm catches he trys to pull off and the Int's he don't fight to defend. Tom has always thrown to him covered or not. Moss just don't have the go up and get it I'm better than any two of you attitude. I'm not sure how much of the yardage came from deep balls
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Marcus1973. Show Marcus1973's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    I hope they do not bring back Moss back.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    To the naysayers that say Moss isn't a #1 anymore, whats your basis for that?

    Stats? He's still statistically at the top of the league. He's at or above his career average for almost every category.

    Speed? He still consistently out runs almost every DB. He still runs a 4.2.

    Hands? He still makes ridiculous catches and drops no more balls now than he did over his career, if you look at his numbers.

    Why do you think Moss isn't a #1? I keep seeing posts about how he needs to go and how he isn't the same, but NO ONE has backed that up with anything. If you are going to bring an argument, I'm all for it. But bring your A game and concrete information to back up what you are saying. Stop believing the media campaigns against Moss, stop listening to Obama, and make up your own minds.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Adam
    not singling you out. just saying
    stats ?  really?  who the h3ll else did Brady throw to? and a few games were straight force the ball to Moss

    Speed ? He's never got off the jam well but ya he's got some speed left. Him and Brady just never put it together deep this year


    I think the most peoples problem with him is the no contest INT's or the hands around his hips on yet another drop or miss.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    7393, I agree that Moss is not a #1 anymore. Unfortunately, with so many bigger needs, getting a #1 receiver is probably like # 5 or 6 in the needs list.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Break Up with Randy Moss?

    Pats7393...if a wide receiver who puts up 1,200 yards and 13 touchdowns in a season while being double teamed on virtually every play isn't a "true #1 receiver", then the NFL has yet to see a "true #1 receiver", leading me to believe that there is no such thing as a "true #1 receiver".  
     
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