Building the 2010 patriots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    Trade Adalius Thomas?  What team in their right mind would pay his salary?  They will release him and get nothing for him.  I don't think O-line is as big a problem as people make it.  If Neal retires he will need to be replaced.  D-Line, Wilfork will either get a new contract or be franchised.  They need to look for a solid end to replace Seymour.  I also don't think you can label Chung and Brace busts just yet, especially Chung.  Merriweather has become a very good safety, and he played very sparingly his rookie year, same as Chung.  The Pats play a complex defense and it is difficult for rookies to step right in and play, especially as the last line of defense.  I think they will resign Bodden, he seems willing and he had a productive season.  I think they also need at least one if not two outside linebackers.  Belichick has praised Burgess as being a good two way player (pass and run), but I don't really see it.  Then again Bill Belichick forgot more about football in the last five minutes than I've ever known.  So in all I think the Pats have their work cut out for them, but they have the picks to do it and they have some young players that need to take the next step in 2010.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    Paul O-Line not a big problem!  Did you watch the games? there's no pushed upfront, the pass protection is terrible. 
    I saw some tape of Merriweather and I know the team played terrible but he was caught taking bad angles, running himself out of plays, missing tackles ect.  I am not sold on him I think the position can be improved.

    But the OL and DL have to be priority.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    I agree with Pats7393.

    Moss although still good, is not a #1 threat anymore. He either checks out, is hurt, or just doesn't have the speed/power anymore to challenge elite corners...like Revis for example (although Revis has shut down virtually every #1 receiver he has played against).

    I think we make a serious run at Boldin and pray Tate is as good as we believe he is. We could theoretically start the season with Moss (if we keep him), Boldin, Edelman and Tate. That provides a serious set of weapons for any defense to match up against. Even going against elite corners like Revis, the question becomes, "Which one does he cover"?.

    If we do the above, don't use a draft pick this year on a WR. I would instead use one of them on a RB and possibly TE. TE has never been a huge part of our offense, but I dont know if its' the offense approach or the players we have. I think use a pick on a RB..definitely a 2nd rounder, or possibly a first if someone slips that we grade high. 

    Then we could use 1-2 2nd rounders on defense, and one of them on OL. That should get us close to where we need to be. Assuming of course this 2010 draft class pans out and adds value day 1.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    I did watch the games and Tom Brady was sacked 18 times all season that's just about once a game, and good for the third fewest in the league while attempting the fifth most passes.  They rushed for 1921 yards and averaged 4.1 a carry.  They had the 12th best rushing attack in terms of total yards.  While not exceptional to say that the offensive line is a huge problem for this team is overstating it, especially considering the passing side of things.  I'm not saying they shouldn't try to upgrade a bit, I just think that there are other areas that should be adressed first.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    All good Paul, how many hurries, knocked downs, TFL ect just because brady didn't give up the sacks doesn't mean there was someone in his face. 

    The Pats run out of 4 WR set ect which means they are facing nickle dime packages which are easier to run against.  When it was big guy against big guy in big guy sets the pats could not move the ball, remember 4 and 2 Indy and why not run the ball? or a 4 and 1 and not punching it in.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    I think this is a good debate Pats73.  I hear what you are saying and don't totally disagree with you.  Now you say that the Pats run 3 and 4 receiver sets which means that when it comes to pass blocking most of these guys are 1 on 1 with no help.  I know they give up hurries and Brady is very good at getting rid of the ball, but you can't deny that they do a pretty good job at protecting him.  Which players specifically do you need to upgrade?  Mankins is a stud.  Vollmer is up and coming.  Light is better than a lot of people want to give him credit for.  Neal is solid but might retire.  Kazcur is mediocre.  Koppen is solid but probably on the decline. Levoir looked OK as a fill in but maybe not a guy you want to count on as a starter.  I'm just saying that they may want to upgrade a little, but its going to take a good player to replace one of these guys.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LutherHead04. Show LutherHead04's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    Pats7393,

    OMG! I love that site..now that you you brought it to my attention. That guy is hilarious, and he's clearly a Patriots fan which makes that NFL Mock Draft now my all time favorite.

    Love the pictures of all the girls in there too
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LutherHead04. Show LutherHead04's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    Jared Odrick in the first round? I could see that. this guy had Navarro Bowman in past mock drafts. Guess he likes Penn St. front seven guys. The Pats do desperately need help in the def front

    http://www.thesportsbank.net/nfl-mock-drafts/nfl-mock-draft-1-12/

    check out his second round, with Arrelious Benn going to the Pats with their first choice...more funny pictures too.

    http://www.thesportsbank.net/nfl-mock-drafts/nfl-mock-draft-1-12-round-2/
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat. Show seattlepat's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    "Look at the jets (gag) they have great oline and advanced in the playoffs with rookies at qb and rb." -- Harley

    I like where these discussions are trending. DL and OL shoud be where they start. I used to say frst three picks on any front 7 upgrade. Now, I hope they take an OL and DL on the first two picks. OLB and RB on the next two.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LutherHead04. Show LutherHead04's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    I agree that the concpet of drafting acquriing a #3 wr or #4 wr now should be made with the idea of that receiver potentially becoming a #1, as was said earlier Moss really doesn't have a lot of years left in him, and he can't have more than a couple left in him as a bonafide #1.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    I agree seattle pat-both lines have failed.I hear all these crys for a runnining back and tradeing up or useing a 1st rd pick,but what good would they be behind a bad o-line.it would be a waste of a pick.take care of the lines,and everything else will fall in place.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    A RB is not a waste for the simple reason it is a very very deep RB year, so we will get better quality later than normal.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    if it requires tradeing up for one,or useing a 1st rd pick like many are suggesting.with three 2nd rd picks wouldnt be bad if a good one is there.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gulo. Show Gulo's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    this is gonna be a really really deep receiver class
    those are just the Jrs that are leaving, and there are a lot that we could snag up in the second round or later that are really really good
    like:
    Dezmon Briscoe
    Dez Bryant
    Demaryius Thomas
    those guys are beasts and probably will be available for our picks, id like to see Demaryius Thomas here, hes and absolute BEAST, and also check out Freddie Barnes, hes a monster from Bowling Green
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    a receiver will be needed badly.a nice 6 ft 3 or better.or someone in the vincent jackson range.6-7?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    Let's assume we're remaining a 3-4 team.  If this is the case, here's what I might prioritize:

    Guys to re-sign:
    Wilfork
    Mankins
    Bodden
    Faulk
    Banta-Cain
    Guyton
    Gostkowski
    Green

    Positions to draft (in rough order of priority)
    Right tackle (assumes Vollmer plays left tackle)
    OLB
    CB
    WR
    DE (moves up if Green isn't re-signed)
    Guard
    RB
    ILB
    Center

    Positions to focus on in free agency
    WR
    DE
    OLB
    TE
    RB
    CB
    Safety


    I know a lot of people want to see a RB picked in the draft.  I think we can get through another year with Maroney, Faulk, and a veteran free agent.  To me the OL and WR positions (and maybe even TE) are more important for us on offense than RB.  And getting a top OLB and a top cover CB on defense seems way more important than just about anything else except maybe getting a good RT. DE, Guard, and ILB also seem slightly more important to me than RB for this year.  



     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    not a bad list.a pass rusher or two would be nice,and someone who can shut down a running game.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    Spheroid, I agree on your resign list. I have a slightly different prioritization of needs. Before I get there though, I want to point something out about BB.

    One thing I want BB to change is his draft philosophy. I'd like them to draft the best person on the board, if that person could fill any of the top three needs. Let's imagine this scenario where BB believes that his top needs are DE, OL (in that order) and plans to draft an OLB in the mid or late 2nd round, but there isn't a DE or OL the pick when it's their turn but Hughes is up on the board. I'd pick Hughes if he's the top player available and he fills a top three need, instead of trading down to avoid reaching to fill the DE spot. I really think BB's draft approach is a bad combo with his willingness to let go of veterans. 
    It depletes the depth of this team, and keeps us from having the top talent at any position. (Please see at the end of this post for a Red Sox analogy, if interested)

    Onto my order of needs to fill:

    1) OT: Take the best available, regardless of which side (The good thing about Vollmer is he can play opposite)

    2) DE: Pass rush is needed but the key to this is a DL that cannot be pushed around and but can also, if needed, create consistent pressure (not necessarily sack, but that would not be bad bonus) up the middle. What I saw in the Ravens game was a DL that got pushed around, which created holes for Rice. When the OLBs started helping inside, that took away any chance of a pass rush from the outside, and made it easy for Rice to run outside and turn the corner. In short, I really think the absence of an ability to rush the QB from the outside is just the tip of the iceberg that is lack of pressure on the passer. 

    3) LB: Draft the best available regardless of ILB or OLB, then find an FA to fill the other (assumes neither was filled before the draft; getting a FA to fill one before the draft would be a better order of events). With TBC there, I don't see the incremental value of an upgrade at OLB being bigger than the value of getting a Ted Johnson-like ILB to stand next to Mayo. 

    4) RB or WR: Best available

    -----

    RS Analogy

    I hate getting players for quant vs. qual. Last year the RS had no #1 who could go 8 innings against a good lineup like NYY. They had two #2s (Beckett and Lester; yes, I don't think Beckett is a #1 anymore. He may still have the stuff but not the fire.). The RS had 6 pitchers who could be good #s3-5 on a rotation. Look where that got them.






     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    Good post Seattle . . . I'd be fine with a left tackle, too, but the good ones tend to go very early in the draft, so I think getting a good right tackle is more realistic.  I was sitting on the 30 yard line at the Ravens game (on the side of the field where all the action was) and what you're saying about the DL is exactly right.  They were pushed back four or five yards on every running play. Wilfork and Warren both looked bad--but I suspect that's partly because they weren't fully recovered from their injuries.  I think the DL is going to have to be upgraded soon, but if Wilfork is 100% and we have Warren, Wright, Pryor, and Green, we can probably get by for a year.  I think OLB is a higher priority in this defense right now than an ILB (mostly because so much of the pass rush comes from the outside position) but I'd agree that a good ILB would be nearly as valuable and we probably should take whatever LB is best, regardless of position.  Wide receiver is a huge need on offense.  And I'd argue that another CB is also essential.  Maybe Butler will turn out to be the guy we need, but I'm not sold on him yet.  Right now, other than Bodden (who we need to re-sign), I think we're terribly weak at corner.

    On the draft approach:  I think BB generally does a good job of getting value from mid to late round picks and I agree that's a good way to build a team, since you can stockpile mid-level players to fill most positions. But to be a winning team, you need a critical mass of impact players and those tend to be first-round picks.  The Pats have to get better at targeting a few high-round players at key positions like CB, DL, OT, LB, and maybe WR and RB. 


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    value is good a few years down the road,but the pats need Quality players now that can make an impact right away.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Vladtheimpaler1. Show Vladtheimpaler1's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    I agree Quality is needed much more then value this year.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from LutherHead04. Show LutherHead04's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    What about Arrelious Benn as the Pats first WR pick? Here's more on Benn

    I think Dez Bryant and Brandon La Fell will be gone by the time the Patriots pick...then there's always Golden Tate from ND too...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    nothing wrong with him.a solid receiver is needed.but if the jets knock out the colts sunday.it will prove my point that the pats are in dire need of defensive help.as the jets defense is proving it can get it done with just a little out put from there offense.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    I think there are some holes in your post Seattle.  First off I just don't see tackle as the biggest hole on the team.  Light might need to be replaced soon, but he is still servicable.  I agree the DL and especially OLB are the key positions to improve.  Myron Pryor did look pretty good last year though, so I truly believe that OLB is the most important position.  Also I think WR is very high on the priority list.  Moss can't play forever, Welker won't be right til late in the year, and Edelman doesn't seem to be the answer at outside reciever.  Also when you say that the Pats should draft either OLB or ILB and then get the other in free agency, you have the process backward, unless you are talking about picking up the players that get dropped during camp.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Building the 2010 patriots

    People probably won't like this but I think the future of the NFL is an air attack.  Defense is still important, but all the best teams in the NFL right now air it out.  The Colts have done it for a while, the Pats won 18 games doing it in 07, the Saints won 13 games in a row this year.  Even Minn scaled the running attack back and got much better.  The Steelers were a throwing team last year, maybe the Jets old school run philosophy gets them somewhere but I doubt it. 

    Therefore I would put WR high on the priority list.  Offensive line has problems, then OLB, WR, DE.  I like getting a WR from free agency.  Fix the defense through the draft, defenses need to be young.
     

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