Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SmokingJoe. Show SmokingJoe's posts

    Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    We will miss Vrabel for his versatility and for his leadership, however..... the team is loaded with veteran leadership. 

    Overall, the team will be stronger with Burgess, Woods, Crable, Thomas at OLB.

    Also, Love how the Safety's and CB's are getting younger.. setting the tables for another dynasty!


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Although Vrabel's performance dropped off last year, it's hard to say if this was a permanent thing or if he would have rebounded this year.  Many players have off years where their numbers slack off substantially.  That said, he was getting up in the years so a rebound became less likely.  I'd say Vrabel.  I'll likely be proven wrong over the season but I'm going for it anyway.  I'm probably just being sentimental.  Vrabel exemplified the Pats.

    I feel like there was more to letting Vrabel go than his numbers last year, or even his not that high cap hit.  Both Vrabel and BB are professionals who are not about to get into any details though.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Well I'd suggest the same thing holds true for Burgess as he was setting records for sacks then he had 2 bad years but like it was said about Vrabel guys have off seasons maybe thats the same case with Burgess.Also the entire defense is getting younger not just the Defensive Backfield check out the LB's and D-line additions over the last 2 years.They added 2 DB's last year along with 2 LB's,this year they tried to add a young ILB along with 2 more DB's and 3 D Linemen,your observation of the defense getting younger is correct.This years additions are Richards,Brace and Pryor on the D-line Tyrone McKenzie ILB and of course Chung and Butler for the secondary.The team has definately gotten younger on defense!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    I can remember all the younger secondary we had last year.what a joke,and disaster.you need both vets,and youth.vrabel,and burgess have there strengths,and weakness.i would like to have them both here.
     
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    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    How can we assume that he is even adequate at coverage?  When is the last time he covered anybody?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Burgess played some OLB in the 3-4 sets Ryan used to mix in with Oakland, had to cover some there.  Probably don't want him covering anyone these days, just get after the QB. 

    Vrabel will be missed for his leadership and intelligence.  He made few explosive plays in 08.  Hopefully Mayo is ready to lead the D and Burgess can create some havoc. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Bottom line.... the scouting reports on the Pats D the past two years labeled them as SLOW.  Vrabel, as good as he was, contributed to that fact.  This move will help in that regards.   Last year the additions of Mayo and the two rookie CB's helped to bring the D up to speed.  They have a ways to go .  So muy answer is Burgess.  In Bill We Trust.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SmokingJoe. Show SmokingJoe's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    In Response to Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?:
    I can remember all the younger secondary we had last year.what a joke,and disaster.you need both vets,and youth.vrabel,and burgess have there strengths,and weakness.i would like to have them both here.
    Posted by mosseffect43


    Agree that it would be great to have both Vrabs and Burgess, but that was not the question.  As for the secondary last year, I think the lack of a good pass rush really hurt the secondary.  I can remember sooo many times last year where the opposing QB had loads of time to survey the entire field. 

    I am hoping that Burgess and Thomas remain healthy, and if so, we will see more sacks this year and better performance from the DB's.  

    Just my humble opinion. 

    PS Cant wait for the season to start!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Dont forget that Vrabel's salary cap number was over $4MIL, whereas Burgess is $2MIL. That amount allowed us to get someone like Fred Taylor or Joey Galloway.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SmokingJoe. Show SmokingJoe's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    In Response to Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?:
    Dont forget that Vrabel's salary cap number was over $4MIL, whereas Burgess is $2MIL. That amount allowed us to get someone like Fred Taylor or Joey Galloway.
    Posted by pats-fan-2007


    Very god point!  When you consider the salary differential this one is really a no-brainer.  Burgess is MUCH better value.  I am really hoping BB can bring the best out of Burgess.  Let's hope that he is a MOSS and not a GABRIAL.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from agent56. Show agent56's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    In Response to Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?:
    We will miss Vrabel for his versatility and for his leadership, however..... the team is loaded with veteran leadership.  Overall, the team will be stronger with Burgess, Woods, Crable, Thomas at OLB. Also, Love how the Safety's and CB's are getting younger.. setting the tables for another dynasty!
    Posted by SmokingJoe


    Hard to tell Joe. It all depends on how burgess adapts to the type of D the pats play. He is certainly a better athlete but I'm curious to see if he has the smarts.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Skadude22. Show Skadude22's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    In response to the let's hope he is a Moss not a Gabriel, Gabriel was never a pro bowler, Burgess was. Good start.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

     It all depends on how burgess adapts to the type of D the pats play. He is certainly a better athlete but I'm curious to see if he has the smarts.

    My guess is that Bill did not sign this guy blindly, based solely on past stats. I'm sure if he gave up not only a 3rd round pick, but also a future pick, he has talked to and/or worked the guy out. If he didn't think Burgess had the aptitude to play in this system he wouldn't have signed him, much less traded away two picks for him. Not to say that guarantees he will work out well. But if he were a "dummy" he would not have even been considered. With him being a couple years younger than Vrable, I'd have to say I'd rather have Burgess...at least at this point in time!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    In Response to Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?:
    In Response to Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have? : Agree that it would be great to have both Vrabs and Burgess, but that was not the question.  As for the secondary last year, I think the lack of a good pass rush really hurt the secondary.  I can remember sooo many times last year where the opposing QB had loads of time to survey the entire field.  I am hoping that Burgess and Thomas remain healthy, and if so, we will see more sacks this year and better performance from the DB's.   Just my humble opinion.  PS Cant wait for the season to start!
    Posted by SmokingJoe
    you make good points,but then you have to wonder.did we have a poor pass rush because the LB,s were needed to drop back in coverage to help the secondary?,or was the secondary that bad because there was no pass rush?it comes down to all 11 players need to get it done.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    I think it was a little of both. The pass rush seemed to be a second late at getting to the QB, but had the DBs been able to cover their guys that extra second there would have been a lot more sacks. As was mentioned in another thread, the defense as a whole has been slowing down over the last few seasons. Hopefully with better speed at both levels this will not be such a problem this year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Burgess is a top flight OLB that can rush the QB well from the left side which isn't easy to find. I'm sure many people have mentioned it but the bottom line is we are going to be much faster at linebacker this year and he is going to add to it. Vrabel, Bruschi and Seau....I love all 3 of them but we were a step behind everyone last year. That goes for the running game as well as the pass rush...I know we're talking about linebackers here but Rodney Harrison was part of slowing the Defense down too. BB knows what's up. We may not look better in week 1 but buy week 8 I'm sure there will be a noticeable difference.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    I certainly hope you're correct. If these new guys can "get" the system (including rookies like Chung and Butler), I expect the defense to be a lot faster. hopefully that will translate into better!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SmokingJoe. Show SmokingJoe's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    I have been concerned about his ability to learn the Pats "complex" system.  This would be my only hesitation.  I have to assume that BB has assessed this either from some of the ex-raiders on the team or through his pro-bowl experience with Burgess. Only time will tell and I can't wait!

    If Burgess is only a situational 3rd down pass rusher, the team will still benefit.  With Burgess and Thomas, we have a great 1-2 tandem of pass rushing OLB's!



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SmokingJoe. Show SmokingJoe's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    My primary concern is whether he can learn the complex defence.  If not, we still have a great athletic OLB for the 3rd down pass rush. 

    I am assuming that BB has accessed his "smarts" through discussion with ex-raiders and during the Pro-Bowl.

    Can't wait to find out!


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Vrabel was a great Patriot and should retire as one.  But he isn't the player he once was and contributed to the lack of speed and pass rush for NE.  Burgess can make an awesome impact, and with his physical ability may make the Pats one of the top defensive units in the league in 2009.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    We should consider these dynamics...(1)it's Mayo's second year..he ain't getting worse..(2)Thomas stays outside right..where he belongs...(3) it's Guyton's second year...(4) Seymour(healthy),Fork, and Warren return...new vet corners with rookies and 2nd year guys pushing them...(5) a pass rushing left OLB in his prime and playing for a contract....(6) Merriweather is in third year, and Chung may challenge for time by mid-season...and finally....every team has to look behind our center and see a guy wearing #12 again...that's a serious confidence croaker. Burgess will be a force to deal with, and our secondary is the primary beneficiary. If not decimated by injuries, the Pats have refilled the can of Whup-A## and are going to roll this year like Patton went through France.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    In Response to Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?:
    Although Vrabel's performance dropped off last year, it's hard to say if this was a permanent thing or if he would have rebounded this year.  Many players have off years where their numbers slack off substantially.  That said, he was getting up in the years so a rebound became less likely.  I'd say Vrabel.  I'll likely be proven wrong over the season but I'm going for it anyway.  I'm probably just being sentimental.  Vrabel exemplified the Pats. I feel like there was more to letting Vrabel go than his numbers last year, or even his not that high cap hit.  Both Vrabel and BB are professionals who are not about to get into any details though.
    Posted by carawaydj


    Agree with everything you say.  What he didn't have and what he contributed to was the Pat's lack of defensive speed.  Well known through out the league from opposing scouts.  Burgess fulfills a role....pass rushing specialist.  He will be used in situations in which he likely to succeed not fail.  Hence the success of the team.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady101. Show Brady101's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    I love Vrabel.  He's done so much for the team over the last couple of years.  Still hard to believe he was only a back-up in Pittsburgh.  But like all players, they slow down, and Vrabel is doing that.  With Burgess we might possibly get another Vrabel...only younger.  We'll have to wait and see.  As they say, "In BB we trust."
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Burgess or Vrabel.... Who would you rather have?

    Vrabel when he was 31 hands down over Burgess.
     
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