BUTLER

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    LOL

    I find it funny that fans think we should have All Pro corner's playing nickle and dime... very realistic.  I wonder what Browns fans sit around and gripe about?

    Maybe with another monster D tackle playing end next to Vince, Warren(s), Brace and some fresh blood rushing the passer we can really judge this defensive backfield, all our 22+ year old backfield did this season was lead the entire NFL in INT's with 25, imagine what they could accomplish with a pass rush?


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    If the Patriots has a pass rush - anything better than the last two years then Butler would not be considered a bust.

    In theory the Pats are 'set' at DB, but if there are trades to be made - start w Meriweather.

    Meriweather and/or Butler could be sent to Philly who have been valuable trade partners w BB in the past and now that Ellis Hobbs is done with his career they need the help at CB.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    I didn't like Butler last off season and I like him even less this off season.  He's exploited every time he's out there and I don't see him getting better.  Whether he makes the team or not depends on what kind of competition there is in camp, but I don't see him as a long term option even at dime back.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Butler will be a fine DB.  He had a bad year.  He is fast, and capable.  Time to look at the OLB position and DL to improve the defense.  It is time for BB to do what he does best.  Build a good defense from the inside out!  The secondary is only as good as the pass rush.  When a Sanchez can point to the WR to tell him where to go, the problem is not in the Secondary.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    All of the gripers do realize that Asante Samuel, the guy who most of you were mad about trading away, was pretty much garbage and a nickel back until his 4th year, right? McCourty is a freak for being that good in his rookie year. Revis was lucky enough to play for a top defense in his first few years.
    Let's face it; if there's one corner in this league that we could compare's potential to, it's Samuel. He's a smaller guy who has as quick of a first step as any. Man coverage is NOT his thing. Samuel plays good flat coverage, but gets burnt deep when he plays man defense, and jumps the out routes very well. If they put Butler in a position to succeed, like Belichick did for Samuel, then he'll be able to change all of our perspectives on him.
    Butler is still only 23 years old. Give the kid a break. If we gave up on Asante Samuel after his first two seasons, he wouldn't even be who he is right now and we wouldn't be regretting his trade. And as far as his physical abilities, I think Butler has Samuel beat.
    Something tells me that if the pass rush is improved, and the front-7 forces some throws that might be too early and off target, that Butler will be in position. Don't crucify the guy yet, and give him an other year before we can truly judge Belichick for keeping him around. He's not getting any 3rd or 4th rounders, either. Think about it: Maroney was bad for a 1st rounder, but he wasn't as bad as we thought he was, just because we had high expectations for him. We got a 5th rounder for him. No way is Butler's stock worth that much right now.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Butler has good physical skills.  His problem has been technique and mastering the D.  I see him getting at least one more year to show what he can do.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOT2REGRET. Show NOT2REGRET's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    I cant understand for the life of me , why people think we have a "stocked" secondary. Do we watch the same games? Even though Mayo was suppose to be there on that big play in the jets game , both S's were in position to prevent all that yac J.C. got. Meriweather cant diagonse plays , cant tackle and take some of the worst angles possible. We can absolutely do better there. Butler  .... just get rid of him now. Im so tired of holding on to these guys that for w/e reason arnt working for us. Jackson , Maroney , Watson ... we all knew these guys couldnt play 3 years before they were traded/cut etc. And this also goes back to the draft. We took Chung , Butler , Brace ... when we should have taken Matthews/Laureniatis. Trade Butler for a 4th. Let someone else take 3 years to develop him into a nick/dime package DB.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    All of the gripers do realize that Asante Samuel, the guy who most of you were mad about trading away, was pretty much garbage and a nickel back until his 4th year, right?


    This is Ridiculous!  I hate when people compare Asante, who was a nickel back but a damn good one.  He had TY Law and Poole on either side who played shutdown football in 03, so he had to show up, and he was never beat all up and down the field as Butler is when he gets in.  Thats not even close to accurate and its wishful thinking on your part about Butler.  He is TRASH!

    Ha, more like "They GUY WHO DIDNT KNOW A THING"  lmao!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Go look at Pittsburgh, Sorry, gotta tell it like it is.  They have had the same 2 CBs, Taylor and McFadden forever , and niether of them are shutdown CBs, but they know the system very well and perform every week and are never hurt.  Also look at tight end, with Heath Miller a mainstay for the last 7 years. 


    Now go back and look at how many pics were used for DB and TE in the last 7 years and ask why we are just now finding a CB, and a TE of the future, and we still need a CB, cuz Bodden is a wildcard, and has always had one good, one bad year..syndrome...so its not a given that  he comes back and has a year like he did in 09'    Like I mentioned in another thread, b4 this became an offseason for spewing and ranting racist things,  I said What skilled position players have the pats drafted and also resigned????   I could only find one (James Sanders, who at safety is not really a skill position) and that was a 3 year 9 mill deal, but Branch, Givens, Johnson, Graham, Watson, Asante, Wilson, C.Jackson, D.Thomas, Garret Mills, Laurence Maroney, - the list goes on, and none of them given a contract, some not deserving, but the point is, we are always needing to refill the cabinet, cuz we are always dumping people when Pittsburgh has proven if you get it right you can retain these players and get better, but as long as you keep replacing the same position every year you will never catch up with other teams...and thats wwhy we have no pass rush, cuz we have to draft cb's and TE's every f riggin YEAR!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PerryM. Show PerryM's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    In Response to Re: BUTLER:
    [QUOTE]LOL I find it funny that fans think we should have All Pro corner's playing nickle and dime... very realistic.  I wonder what Browns fans sit around and gripe about? Maybe with another monster D tackle playing end next to Vince, Warren(s), Brace and some fresh blood rushing the passer we can really judge this defensive backfield, all our 22+ year old backfield did this season was lead the entire NFL in INT's with 25, imagine what they could accomplish with a pass rush?
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Damn you, now I wonder what Brown Fans do gripe about?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    I see a draft pick (mid/late round)coming in and pushing both Butler and Wilhite.  You have to think Arrington will be kicked inside as the lead nickel. 

    From there, it's the competition between Wilhite and Butler.  It will be about health for them all the way through camp.

    But, it' McCourty/Bodden to lead one of the best duos in the NFL and a pretty nice problem to have with experience channeling down through their nickel and/or dime slots.

    The only real advantage for Wilhite is he beat out Butler for this role and did plays Safety as a rookie.

    Chalk me up as a fan of BB having experience here.  The speed/athelticism element is now a bonus.   

    If either slips, they are gone, though.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    In Response to Re: BUTLER:
    [QUOTE] Arrington was fine on special teams 'cause he is a good tackler, but both he and Butler are awful at corner. I'd keep Arrington, unload Butler, hope that Bodden stays healthy and draft another corner.
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    Arrington was "awful" at CB? He stabilized the right side and kept things quiet all year.

    Wow.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    In Response to Re: BUTLER:
    [QUOTE]I cant understand for the life of me , why people think we have a "stocked" secondary. Do we watch the same games? Even though Mayo was suppose to be there on that big play in the jets game , both S's were in position to prevent all that yac J.C. got. Meriweather cant diagonse plays , cant tackle and take some of the worst angles possible. We can absolutely do better there. Butler  .... just get rid of him now. Im so tired of holding on to these guys that for w/e reason arnt working for us. Jackson , Maroney , Watson ... we all knew these guys couldnt play 3 years before they were traded/cut etc. And this also goes back to the draft. We took Chung , Butler , Brace ... when we should have taken Matthews/Laureniatis. Trade Butler for a 4th. Let someone else take 3 years to develop him into a nick/dime package DB.
    Posted by NOT2REGRET[/QUOTE]

    Experience.

    By next season Butler and Arrington are 2 years in, Wilhite will be in season 4.

    Do not underestimate the idea of having DBs who know where to be in zone, reacting instinctually and an infusion of a high end pass rush.

    With speed. And athleticism.

    I wouldn't call it "stacked". No team is "stacked", but there is no doubt if McCourty and Bodden are healthy, BB will have 2 very solid inside the hash type CBs.

    I doubt he keeps more than the 4 CBs with the way he's using a nickel at Safety.



     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Agree BB. Like the tandem of Bodden and McCourty with Arrington or Butler or Wilhite in the nickel and dime. I don't think the secondary is a big consideration for the draft (DL, OL, OLB ranking higher). With Bodden healthy and some depth at Safety I can't see them drafting for the secondary until at best the 3rd and more likely later. People seem to have forgotten how well Bodden played against top flite receivers (Owens etc....). At this point drafting a DB would be primarily for depth.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    I'm not sure why you guys think Butler and Wilhite might be gone. They will be with the Pats next year.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Show me a team that can pressure the QB and I'll show you a better secondary. We have top round talent all over the secondary. We have little talent on DE/OLB.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    In Response to Re: BUTLER:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BUTLER : Arrington was "awful" at CB? He stabilized the right side and kept things quiet all year. Wow.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]
    Hi, I probably should have said that while Butler was awful, Arrington was simply medicre. Sorry about that.
     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ipats. Show ipats's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    In Response to Re: BUTLER:
    [QUOTE]Show me a team that can pressure the QB and I'll show you a better secondary. We have top round talent all over the secondary. We have little talent on DE/OLB.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    EXACTLY!!!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Butler has made me redo how I look at corners in the draft. I can eat some crow for thinking Butler would be a good corner in this league for years. He has all the physical talent in the world but its just not there mentally.

    The fact Bill was trying to move him for Pierre Thomas should be telling enough. With Bodden and McCourty the starters Butler will likely be pushed to the dime spot and rarely see time unless we play a team that runs the spread which is doubtful. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Oh and yeah Wilhite is probably a STer from here on out. His career is done here. The guy cant tackle or cover the fact he started for this team at one point is crazy. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: BUTLER

     find it funny that fans think we should have All Pro corner's playing nickle and dime... very realistic.



    Ummm, No, we just dont want our 2nd round picks playing dime back.

    There is a difference.  noone said he had to be all-pro, but to make ONE play , is that asking too much.  Everyone knows CB's will give up plays, but its about competing and making some of your own.,...and he did not this past year.

    oh, and for all of the "we need a pass rush, our cb's are fine"  WHy is that the rook McCourty seemed to cover his man very well with the same amount of time??   Dont gimme that.   Guys waiting for BUtler to be a player might as well start looking for the government to be fair.....lmao!  or the Mass lotto to have fair odds....good luck w/ dat....  I mean, he could have the offseason of a lifetime, but I doubt it
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    Why was Wheatley released if it was Butler who was supposed to be traded to New Orleans?  Seems like Wheatley may have been in the discussion, not Butler, unless someone has a source.

    And if Butler had trade value, why was that a bad thing?

    Who is traded mid season for another player?  I also think Pierre Thomas is a good player, so if Butler was being used to deal for Thomas, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

    This means Butler had value. Wheatley apparently did not and/or was released after the deal feel through, which if I remember, BB had asked for somethign else on top of Thomas from Mickey Loomis.

    Give me experienced DBs who can play zone. This is why Chevis Jackson was acquired late this past season.  He had experience playing zone. 

    No excuses for Butler's regression and possible failure here, but Wilhite clearly was having a good year.  Arrington also now has show he knows what to do.

    Adding Arrington into the nickel mix with WIlhite and possibly Butler and another draft pick or veteran signing is continuing to build towards a strength.

    Look at other team's sub package CBs.  Look at Pitt's Horrendous.  As if Gay and whoever else they carry are better?

    No, they have a pass rush.   This team needs a pass rush.

    McCourty is special and a 1st rd pick in a deep draft. Butler is a 2nd rd pick in a weaker draft.

    There is nothing wrong with a 2nd rd pick being a nickel. Frankly, I don't care where they drafted, as long as they can contribute. 

    People just need to some player to hammer on for whatever reason.

    For the first time since Mike Haynes and Clayborn does NE have a top 5 NFL duo in Mcourty and Bodden which is fantastic news.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    In Response to Re: BUTLER:
    [QUOTE] find it funny that fans think we should have All Pro corner's playing nickle and dime... very realistic. Ummm, No, we just dont want our 2nd round picks playing dime back. There is a difference.  noone said he had to be all-pro, but to make ONE play , is that asking too much.  Everyone knows CB's will give up plays, but its about competing and making some of your own.,...and he did not this past year. oh, and for all of the "we need a pass rush, our cb's are fine"  WHy is that the rook McCourty seemed to cover his man very well with the same amount of time??   Dont gimme that.   Guys waiting for BUtler to be a player might as well start looking for the government to be fair.....lmao!  or the Mass lotto to have fair odds....good luck w/ dat....  I mean, he could have the offseason of a lifetime, but I doubt it
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Maybe because McCourty is bigger, is more gifted and a 1st rd pick?

    I have zero issue with Butler being a nickel. Look at other teams' nickel and dime CBs.

    They aren't necessarily better than NE's crop of players.   I also have no issue with Butler losing out to a superior player like McCourty or a clear more experienced high end CB like Bodden.

    I guess NE should have drafted Kyle Wilson?  lol

    We'll see how it shakes out, but I cannot remember a more exeperienced set of subpackage DBs here for a long, long time.

    Probably 2001 with Terrell Buckley in nickel or maybe even some as average as Chad Scott (injury prone) back in the mid '00s.



     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: BUTLER

    I dont know why people want Wilhite out when he played better than Butler.  I dont see whats wrong with Arrington.  He jsut completed his 1st season as a starter and wasnt even expected to start and most games he held his own.  I think Arrington is the nickel by default and wilhite the dime, but just because Wilhites contract is almost up, you may see Butler at dime instead, but I could care less after the 1st 3.  If we get beat by the 4th WR, then we deserved it, cuz there was no pass rush.

    I disagree about Wheatley tho, he was hurt, and who would trade for an inured CB, that hadnt dont anything in 3 years?  atleast Butler was still kind of new, and you could have tricked someone into thinking he was good.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share