Bye, Bye Bennie

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    I am always civil unless confronted by belligerence and immaturity with unbelievable trolls winding up like chatty Kathy dolls using this board as some personal spam board.

    I don't instigate any of that. 

    Anyway, we disagree on BJGE.  I'd love to have time to go back and look at the games we play when he's the lead back, but if memory serves me, we really don't lose when he's used more than Woodhead.   We just don't.

    Out of curiousity, I just looked at the box sxcore of the October 2010 OT win agaisnt Baltimore.

    Woodhead was a lead back.  He did pretty well, but Brady had 1 TD and two INTs in that game. We won the game, as you recall. But, that game went to OT and if we lose a coin flip, we might lose. The D held repeatedly, to put us in a spot to win with a FG.

    My points is, would that game have been as hairy if BJGE didn't just get 10 carries as an obligatory RB who everyone knows is subbed in for hammer jobs down the middle?

    10 carries, 20 yards.  Now, most would say "he stinks!". But, the question is, if he's the lead back, used in all facets, doesn't the cause the opponent to question more with him on the field v.s. WOodhead, who really is ONLY effective in passing downs and the quick strike draws? It would be the equivalent of Faulk being our lead back.

    Guess what happened in games when Faulk was our lead back, say in the 2005 divisionals in Denver? We lose games.

    That's all I care about right there.

    I could care less if BJGE breaks a 60 yard run putting our D back on the field fast, is on ESPN with highlight reel runs, because he's really the ideal back here in a backfield where the skill sets are mixed (Ridley, Woodhead and Vereen are all slightly different) AND for the reason that I don't want to put big money into the RB spot.

    I don't care if it's Antowain Smith, Dillon, Maroney or now BJGE, each was CHEAP with in the formula under the cap. Would I want Arian Foster? Hell yeah, but not at the expense for cutting Mario Williams and others who help my team in other ways.

    That's a perfect example right there. I feel the same way about CBs in this league. You start paying CBS or WRs top tier money? What happens? Those teams don't win jack squat. They might be good or very good, but they ain't good enough.

    I think it's a major mistake to pretend the grass is greener.  RIdley I like a lot, but now with his two fumbles a big deal will be made of that, and really, maybe ghe's a just a Faulk type skill-set wise, anyway?

    Vereen?  Looks shifty, quick, can catch, kind of like a Woodhead. But, are these guys leads backs?  We don't know. And with Brady needing to be weened off the crack pipe (passing), barring committing to a better talent (Pierre Thomas I would like if NOs has to cut him or something), then BJGE is a fine lead back option with the passing weapons he has here.

    It's not like they aren't loaded at TE and with Welker, where that doesn't allow BJGE 3.5+ yards per carry, ball security and really, a wildcard during 4 qtrs of play (will he run, pass receive, block or be a decoy?).

    Once a defense knows we don't like using a Ridley or a Vereen in certain situations, that puts more pressure on Brady because they know it, and here comes the pass.

    Not what I want. We will never see a SB without getting some version of a lead back in here.  I hope it is Ridley or Vereeen, but I feel Ridley may run a bit too high and hard, while Vereen is small.  Compact, but I don't see him as a 15+ carry guy.

    He's notch down from the Rice/Jones-Drew body style needed for durability in this league.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    We agree Rusty, that there is a need to run more, and I dont disagree that Benny is capable. What I am saying is the Pats dont think that highly of him.

    They havent signed him longterm(something they could have easily done last year)

    Whenever they want to up the tempo, he comes off the field.


    Once again, I am not saying Benny isnt capable enough, but he isnt good enough to take snaps away from your best player who has Wes, Gronk, hernandez to throw to.

    You see the way they use him, yet you expect it to change by yelling it all the time?  This will only change with personell and thats why I think you should be happy if they move on from him. Everyone from Brady to Jermaine Wiggins has said its a matter of personell, yet you refuse to admit it and keep bashing Brady like HE doesnt know the importance of running. In 04' he was VERY HAPPY to be handing off to Cory Dillon every other snap.

    How can Benny be a lead back for us when we are a passing team?  You need a T.Richardson type who can do it all in order to stop from subbing and your comparison of Benny to MJD and Rice....LMAO!....same body style,...meh, maybe, although Benny is taller, but not near the amount of quickness, change of direction and break away speed. Stop fooling yourself with the homerific bias.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    BassFishing - well, Rusty, I for one am glad to see you back.  You bring a lot to the table, some of it controversial but most of it substantive and worthwhile.

    I must confess I do think the team needs to run the ball more if for no other reason than to take some of the pressure off the passing game.  Clearly the Pats have the horses on the O-line for a power game.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie:
    Who cares? BJGE can be replaced. He was a worse open-field runner than Maroney ... but he happened to fumble less. And had zero pass catching or blocking ability on the blitz.  Get Tim Hightower ... same difference. Then develop the young guys or go for a real RB who doesn't generate 2nd&1's in the crunch.
    Posted by zbellino


    once again, zbellino is 100% correct. BJGE was a great value for year for what he did. Consistently get those 3 to 5 yards, and never fumble. He followed the Pats blockers and got what they gave him, consistently, but never created yards himself. Never made the Pats running game a real threat. If we could get him back at a similar amount to what he got last year, he's worth it. If he gets much more then we should let him go and find someone to replace him. It really won't be that hard.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    I'm sorry but you have to gamble. 

    You draft a RB in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, so now you have to see what you got.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbungle. Show mrbungle's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    I too would hate to see BJGE go but, if he does, I'd hope we see a BETTER back come in to take his place. He never fumbled. Ever. Truly a big reason BB likes him. 

    However, I can't see us going into the season without some kind of replacement. Maybe trade Hoyer and a 1st rounder to move up and get Trent Richardson? Then we still have a 1st round pick left. Imagine a young backfield of Richardson, Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead? I, for one, have always wanted to see a big time RB in NE. Every year my hopes are dashed. You never know with BB though. He usually surprises and maybe he's always felt BJGE would leave and has plans if he does? I am tired of seeing NE sign these older vets that have nothing left in the tank. 

    Like I said, hate to see Benny go but, if it means a better back replaces him? I could live with that. 

    BTW, I totally see Vereen as a wild card here. We've yet to see what he can do. He has the skills and he has a year under his belt to know the system. 


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie:
    Good. Maybe this means we will bring in a Real "feature back" to go along with the complimentary guys we have already.
    Posted by JayShizzle45


    Maybe you can figure out how to pay your 'feature back'.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    If they trusted Ridley to block he'd barely sniff the field.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    Bungle, I totally agree and usually I would say no to a 1st rd RB, but one like this in T.Rich is a possible franchise back.

    As long as Benny is here he will be an afterthought. B.B. hasnt forgotten the fundamentals of football he just prefers to have the ball in Bradys hand a lot. They would rather keep the momentum and tempo of the drive up with short throws to Wes as an extension of the run game than pound Benny for 25 times a game.

    I have always said it and the way they use him speaks to it. Also I dont see them signing him now when they didnt sign him 2 years ago when his market was low and they could have locked him up. He is a stopgap player. Just here until a better option comes about and also a player to make us forget Maroney.


    If we cant get Trent, we can still get a Back in the later rounds that would be an upgrade.

    As far as Vareen, he can be special, but he was drafted to be the next K.Faulk, not the next Cory Dillon. He will be eletric in the passing game if he stays healthy and can be a great 3rd down back but I wouldnt count on him as a lead back.

    Feature Back, change of Pace back in Ridley and 3rd down back in Vareen, keep Woody for insurance. Get ur 5th back( a fullback) and the run game is fixed.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie:
    If they trusted Ridley to block he'd barely sniff the field.
    Posted by tompenny


    If they trusted Ridley not to fumble he may get a sniff himself.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    Evil, why would I have to figure that out? Im not paying him.

    Its not hard considering RB's make less than WR's and we've wasted plenty of scratch on that position with no success.

    Arian Foster and Marshawn Lynch both got paid. Good backs will get their money. Meanwhile Benny has played last year on a tender and still has no contract here. Do the math.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie:
    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie : once again, zbellino is 100% correct. BJGE was a great value for year for what he did. Consistently get those 3 to 5 yards, and never fumble. He followed the Pats blockers and got what they gave him, consistently, but never created yards himself. Never made the Pats running game a real threat. If we could get him back at a similar amount to what he got last year, he's worth it. If he gets much more then we should let him go and find someone to replace him. It really won't be that hard.
    Posted by KyleCleric2


    No, he's not...and for some strange reason, zbellino's formerly 100% deeply informed, uber rational and always realistic in terms of practicality and potential simplicity Overall Takes on matters, has been shunned by him for the last 2 or 3 months for the first time ever in his posting tenure...

    How does one leap with ease from the conclusion that: BJGE is not a #1 Runningback threat- DIRECTLY to the conclusion that, thus: NE really doesn't need him, Because replacing him will be a piece of cake...?  

    There was NO reason why extending BJGE at what would have been A BEYOND reasonable offer during & in the midst of this past, Was Not Done...  N-O-N-E.  And don't tell me that they tried without offering up credibly sourced references.  

    Likewise, Upon NE's Runningback corp being solidified, Just Once- One Time since what was offered by the spot for 1 half of that 1 first season with the Maroney and Dillon tandem (what was that, 2005-2006, or 2006-2007...I actually and sicerely forget, b/c the subsequent drought up until this very season, Was THAT long)...  So then, How on Earth does 1 actually conclude, "NE can easily replace BJGE, and throw ANY-one in really, whom WILL offer the same amount of immediate successs for Game 1 of 2013, without'a hitch," IF We can ALL surmize that even by consertaive estimates here, NE had A FULL half decade drought (or half decade +) at the very same spot that they had failed to solidify as a serious and successfully exploited flaw at this spot, For THAT long formerly?!?!?

    Did NE WANT to be that lacking...for that long?!?  I don't they purposefully sought out to, ya know?  The cheap FA vets they kept throwing in during this period, ALL failed miserably...so, just right now this 1 offseason, every thing'll be different if we do the same...bank on it, because "BJGE is easily replaced, without issue?"  How does 1 conclude this?

    How does 1 have no issues just allowing BJGE to walk, because they're SO totally and completely certain that, "IF The Draft's very best Runningback doesn't simply slip down the draft in order to fall right on our laps at Selection #27, Then undoubtedly We'll just scoop Ray Rice right up (maybe NE can trade a 7th Round Draft pick in 2014 for Rice, which his team we'll certainly just jump at)?"


    Make no mistake...IF one were to pick ANY single position on the football field, and ask which one makes for Both the quickest and Easiest transition from college to the pro ranks, The Spot of Runningback would be right there along the top part of this list...no doubt (btw, someone actually forwarded the belief on here recently that RB was the hardest position to transitionally learn, while both WR and CB were the easiest, lol <had ta add that />).  YET, saying this again, And then A-gain just jumpin' to the conclusion that The Specific RB NE DOES get (theoretically) will both by a success himself, and a success in NE...bare minimum offering the very same success of BJGE without fail, IS- well...not very good rationale (I'm learning to temper my words a bit).

    Starting the season with the following guys Is NOT, The best option in terms of keeping the large void from The NE RB position: Extremely promising big back Ridley currently with very worrisome ball security issues (esp. in light of # of carries), and Vareen whom- Didn't Vareen get injured 2-3 seperate times last year at least (go back on the injury list, it was either Vareen or Dowling who's injuries were ever changing, and ever present...maybe it was just both players), and finally 4 foot tall concussion-beacon Danny Woodhead...

    ~~~

    fyi, Please don't respond to my post without ALSO bringing up the facts I offered up in my post on the "Benny to The Chiefs" thread a day or two prior, alright?  IF ya wanna counter my take here, counter ALL the facts I presented, not just piecemeal through 1 or 2 of them, before finally concluding one's counter argument on this subject is sufficient and complete...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    I agree Laz. Benny does need to be replaced. I just dont agree that any guy can do it,. If so, just keep Benny.

    You need a guy who strikes fear into defenses. Getting rid of Benny does not assure that, but keeping him means seeing more of the same. 8 carries in 1st half and benched in the 2nd.


    We need a Top Tier Back that aint happening in free agency. I advocate trading up for Trent or getting a 2nd tier rookie back in the 2nd
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    Just trade a 1st, Woodhead and one of the 2nds for MJ Drew.

    That solves your problem.  It will take more to deal up for Richardson. A top 10 pick is like gold now with the new CBA.

    We'd need to deal both 1sts to get Richardson.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    Its funny how this bothers you rusty, but your are the biggest one here responsible for twisting peoples words and making things up that people never said.

    The hyprocisy you display is downright hilarious....



    Capiche?  oh yeah, I capiche alright. Time to put your self proclaiming genius a ss on ignore....


    for the record, the board had NO problems with this while you were gone, but Im sure by the time the board gets rolling again you will have pis-sed off a few people as well as made something up as well as call someone a moron. Its in your DNA. You cant dissapear for a few weeks and expect your ignorance to change...


    Good luck with the new moniker and a word to the wise, your high post count is a dead give away every time!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie:
    I agree Laz. Benny does need to be replaced. I just dont agree that any guy can do it,. If so, just keep Benny. You need a guy who strikes fear into defenses. Getting rid of Benny does not assure that, but keeping him means seeing more of the same. 8 carries in 1st half and benched in the 2nd. We need a Top Tier Back that aint happening in free agency. I advocate trading up for Trent or getting a 2nd tier rookie back in the 2nd
    Posted by JayShizzle45


    I just Do NOT agree with the mindset of purposely going out and making a position weak, because your (meaning NE's Coaching, not you Jay) Reasoning is one of the following (or combos thereof): A /> Even though the spot is solidified better than a half decade +, It is still lacking a #1 playmaker...so let's suddenly create now a void (to now add to our other positional areas of shortcomings of play and playmakers), Because the guy we have there isn't a stud...And even though it's no longer anywhere NEAR the weakness it just recently was, Let's now make it one, As we believe under the uncertain preconception, That we'll Both RE-Fill it & RE-Fill it with a stud player (even though we have yet too).

    NE did this with James Sanders at Safety.  NE did this with Jabar Gafney at the #2 Wide Receiver position.  And NE is doing this with BJGE at RB right now...  The thinking was EVERY bit the same with ALL 3:  Even though these guys are already immersed in the system and offering Above-Average results (yes...as it actually relates to the system, the surrounding players, and their actual usages), These Guys ARE costing us a bit of money...and even though, the money isn't anywhere near the #1 player-positional money of other guys at their same spots on other teams, And the money that they're being paid (offered & accepted) here in NE is just about perfectly even for what their just above-average output is (but above average nonetheless), These guys are STILL not #1 playmakers...thus: Get rid of'em under the notion that replacing them with a stellar performer, should be no issue whatsoever in accomplishing...
      
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    he was serviceable, that's it.  He had a 1000 yard season by virtue of fantastic blocking up front by Gronk and Crumpler.

    Seriously, how many time was he able to break on over 25 yards...NOT THAT MANY.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    You guys sure do keep the faith.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    Rusty, nice name...

    I spend the majority of my summer up here cruising around in Canada Bassfishing..

    Caught a 7half pound large mouth last summer..: )
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    Does he really think he'll get paid more?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie:
    Rusty, nice name... I spend the majority of my summer up here cruising around in Canada Bassfishing.. Caught a 7half pound large mouth last summer..: )
    Posted by HOTBLITZ


    Nice fish Blitz . . . what Province are you in?  I'm in the Toronto area and do a lot of fishing for bass (and pike, steelhead, and trout) too . . . in fact, hoping to go after some steelhead this weekend, since they should be running up from Lake Ontario now. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    He is a great backup RB. When a great backup RB is your starting RB there is a problem.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    In Response to Re: Bye, Bye Bennie:
    Who cares? BJGE can be replaced. He was a worse open-field runner than Maroney ... but he happened to fumble less. And had zero pass catching or blocking ability on the blitz.  Get Tim Hightower ... same difference. Then develop the young guys or go for a real RB who doesn't generate 2nd&1's in the crunch.
    Posted by zbellino



    This is how I look at it. If I'm an opposing D and it's the endgame of a close one, what do I fear? Not Benny. He is the least of my worries. PLEASE give him the ball. If you beat me with the likes of Benny, I deserved to lose.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    Prolate..

    I'm in Toronto as well... Nice to see!

    I love me some fishing... I have a little boat that I tie down to the roof of my car and me and a buddy hit the honeyholes all around Ontario all summer long. Go about once a week..

    Other then watching my Pat it's my absolute favourite thing to do.

    I work for our professional hockey team so I get the summers off..lol
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Bye, Bye Bennie

    I think it's two things.  First is financial.  Why pay a BJGE $3MM+ when you can get a rookie to contribute the same or more for less than $1MM with a 2nd or lower pick.  Second, we're one of those RBs by Committee teams.  We haven't even seen Vereen and Ridley showed enough promise.  Actually a 3rd reason is RBs average 5 years or less in the NFL and although BJGE has little wear and tear, you'd have to be willing to bet he'd beat the average 2-3 years from now.
     
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