Bye Bye Chicago

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     


    THis is from yesterday...YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT again as the liar. Not me.

    Here are your words:

    Josh McD isn't head coach material yet, give him a few more years under the best in the game, BB, then he just might but as of now, I think a team would be making a big mistake signing McD. 

    If you saw how McDaniels ran the Broncos draft two years in a row, you'd commit suicide. He worked out less than 15 players TOTAL each year, claiming he knew enough from game tape to make judgements, then only drafted players he worked out. By the time he was canned, it was just a talentless shell of a team. Turned over more than 40 roster spots in two seasons.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     



    FRAUD!!!

     

    I clearly state this in the thread..........

    Read this on a site... 

    If you saw how McDaniels ran the Broncos draft two years in a row, you'd commit suicide. He worked out less than 15 players TOTAL each year, claiming he knew enough from game tape to make judgements, then only drafted players he worked out. By the time he was canned, it was just a talentless shell of a team. Turned over more than 40 roster spots in two seasons.

    -

    You seemed to have conveniently left out where I stated "Read this on a site..."

    My words were "Josh McD isn't head coach material yet, give him a few more years under the best in the game, BB, then he just might but as of now, I think a team would be making a big mistake signing McD."

    http://boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/patriots-give-browns-permission-to-interview-josh-mcdaniels/100/6950681

    [/QUOTE]

    What Rustyie the cherry picker is trying to misrepresent someone's words?  Shocking. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    THis is from yesterday...YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT again as the liar. Not me.

    Here are your words:

    Josh McD isn't head coach material yet, give him a few more years under the best in the game, BB, then he just might but as of now, I think a team would be making a big mistake signing McD. 

    If you saw how McDaniels ran the Broncos draft two years in a row, you'd commit suicide. He worked out less than 15 players TOTAL each year, claiming he knew enough from game tape to make judgements, then only drafted players he worked out. By the time he was canned, it was just a talentless shell of a team. Turned over more than 40 roster spots in two seasons.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     



    FRAUD!!!

     

    I clearly state this in the thread..........

    Read this on a site... 

    If you saw how McDaniels ran the Broncos draft two years in a row, you'd commit suicide. He worked out less than 15 players TOTAL each year, claiming he knew enough from game tape to make judgements, then only drafted players he worked out. By the time he was canned, it was just a talentless shell of a team. Turned over more than 40 roster spots in two seasons.

    -

    You seemed to have conveniently left out where I stated "Read this on a site..."

    My words were "Josh McD isn't head coach material yet, give him a few more years under the best in the game, BB, then he just might but as of now, I think a team would be making a big mistake signing McD."

    http://boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/patriots-give-browns-permission-to-interview-josh-mcdaniels/100/6950681

    [/QUOTE]

    But he has a photographic memory...


    We all know he doesn't watch the Pats games before posting so why would you expect that he reads your post before replying to it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    I am going to disagree. They annot possibly gat a better Qb than Cutler. cutler had a good yr , the D did not. This contract only makes him  starter for 3 yrs. today cowherd and Cosell said he has an elite arm and brain and  McGowan was not an answer. 

    In Chicago like MetLife you need a gun

    Look at the non weapons he has had

    It takes more than a Qb. To win. 

    Wiile Mcginnest says that Trestman is the best thing to ever happen to cutler

    they did what they had to do, it was the going rate.

    Post TB we will be in the same place, maybe much worse

    just a humble opinion

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    My god are you dumb. Have you seen this year's draft class? Pick the most mature and smartest QB in Rd 1 and there is your answer.

    Ugh.

    I know you're middle school doesn't require college degrees, but please get an Associate's Degree anyway. It will help develop your IQ.

    [/QUOTE]

    And chances are he wouldn't be able to hold Cutler's jock. Gabbert was good. Weeden was good too. Ponder was pretty good. LOL @ rusty toolchest

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    OOOHHHH ANOTHER TEAM IS IN SCARY CAP HELL! BEWARE!

     

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    Living in the Chicago area, I can tell you there are two opinions of Cutler:

     

     

    "Oh....well Jay Cutler actually is a great QB, they just don't put any talent around him. Matt Forte isn't enough, Matt Forte and Brandon Marshall aren't enough, Matt Forte and Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey aren't enough.  Matt Forte and Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey and Martellus Bennett and a rebuilt O=Line aren't enough"

     

    Still waiting to see what it is that they think is enough. 

     

    Then you have the sane people that aren't in denial that realized several years ago that they got fleeced for an overrated garbage QB, who is even worse as a team leader. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to FishTaco64's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Living in the Chicago area, I can tell you there are two opinions of Cutler:

     

     

    "Oh....well Jay Cutler actually is a great QB, they just don't put any talent around him. Matt Forte isn't enough, Matt Forte and Brandon Marshall aren't enough, Matt Forte and Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey aren't enough.  Matt Forte and Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey and Martellus Bennett and a rebuilt O=Line aren't enough"

     

    Still waiting to see what it is that they think is enough. 

     

    Then you have the sane people that aren't in denial that realized several years ago that they got fleeced for an overrated garbage QB, who is even worse as a team leader. 

    [/QUOTE]


    How would you guys like to have Tom Brady where if he doesn't win a Super Bowl throwing to the kid that sells cotton candy at Gillette he is considered a bum by our very own village idiot?

    Then again that same moron thinks any QB drafted in the top 15 is a sure fire Hall of Famer. I could take a bag of rocks...open it up and find more intelligence in it. Truth.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    they also signed 30yo Tim Jennings for 4 years 22 mil at 11.5 gtd.

    pretty good actually he's still playing at a high level and the money is solid. unless he ages quick this deal isnt bad

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

     

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    they also signed 30yo Tim Jennings for 4 years 22 mil at 11.5 gtd.

    pretty good actually he's still playing at a high level and the money is solid. unless he ages quick this deal isnt bad

     



    I wouldn't be paying any FA 30 years or over that kind of money at that position with a flat cap and with holes on my roster like they have. Another dumb move. Jennings plays nickel.

     

    Compare that contract to Arrington's.

    He's a very good one too, but compare the contracts and age. Arrington is 27 and only 8 million is guaranteed.

    Thanks again to BB.

     




    agree. high money to a guy his age but i think he still has 2-3 good years left and he can play the ball very well.. also, you are sure he plays the nickel? i thought he and tillman were the outside corners in Chicago. regardless i think the deal wont be bad if his body doesnt give on him so its risky.

    *edit* just looked it up Jennings does play the outside. for a guy on the outside that money is solid in my opinon... if the pats gave him that deal i wouldnt like it but for a team like chicago, good riddance

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerLT. Show RogerLT's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    Early in his career Cutler was just like Romo. you could count on him to throw the big pick at the worst possible time. The last couple of years he just seems to hold on to the ball too long and takes the big sack instead. With all the work da bears need to do on the D they probably should have stuck with McC and tried to get lucky with one of this years qb class

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    Almost exactly like Philadelphia when Vick went down.  Team played better with Foles who handed it off more and made less mistakes .  Part of this is the offensive coordinator who sees a QB chuck a ball through the air and gets pass-happy. 

    Design the offense to put your  players in position to succeed .  No QB is superman.  Its not easy.  Use the backs.  This "new age of offfense" ignores all of the fundamentals of football.  passs blocking OLs forget how to run the ball.  You need to do both.  It helps your QB.  OCs with a good throwing QB get stupid and when the emphsasis should be on running the ball.  It's counterintuitve and that's why they don't get it. 

    If you have a big arm everybody knows it.   Run the ball. they are expecting the pass.  Beef up your offensive line .  Run it.  The pass will always be there.  You have the arm.  the threat is always there.   Patriots gave up 270 yards  to Denver running it .  Pats won because of Brady but the point is Denver won the game really by running the ball.   270 yards on the ground should win the game. Thing was Peyton coudn't complete a pass.   Cutler on the other hand would have won that game for Denver.  He has a strong arm that could have completed passes in that wind.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    That isn't particularly helpful.  For example a deal with no signing bonus that guaranteed salaries of 10 million for the first 3 years and then paid him unguaranteed salaries of  24 million the last 4 years would be 7/126 which is 17.5 per, but they would also be able to cut him after 3 years with ZERO dead money.  Now this deal I just outlined is completely made up and unrealistic, but until we know the structure and guaranteed money the money per year isn't as useful.  In short team deals or deals with young players the AAV is more useful, but I can't believe the Bears would be stupid enough to sign a 30 year old QB for 7 years without some protection on the back end (e.g. basically a 3 or 4 year deal with very little consequence for cutting him afterward making the remaining years essentially team options).

    [/QUOTE]

    Props to PCM.  Your ideal, extremely unrealistic contract is almost exactly what Cutler got.

    No signing bonus.

    First 3 years completely guaranteed, $54 million.

    Year 4 - 12.5 million (not guaranteed) rising to 19 million in Year 7.

    It's a 3-year, 54 million dollar deal with 4 consecutive 1-year team options.  They can cut ties with him at any point after Year 3 without ANY cap hit.  Even if they cut him after the 2015 season (year 2), they would have dead money of ~10.5 million in 2016 and ~5.5 million in 2017.

    Seeing as A. they're not going to draft a QB this year, and B. there is no free agent QB on the horizon over the next 3 years who's a significant upgrade to Cutler, this is actually a slam dunk contract for Chicago.  Even if they draft a QB in Year 2, it's feasible that he would sit for a year behind Cutler, and then possibly challenge him in Year 3; with the rookie wage scale, starting a 2nd year player for 1-year while Cutler backs him up at starter-level money is not a problem at all.

    When I initially heard about this, I agreed with everyone else in this thread.  But now, this is actually a pretty great deal for BOTH Chicago and Cutler.  

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    When I initially heard about this, I agreed with everyone else in this thread.  But now, this is actually a pretty great deal for BOTH Chicago and Cutler.  



    Cutler gets his guaranteed payday and Chicago gets the flexibility to keep him long term if he continues to improve in Trestman's system or dump him after 3 years if it doesn't work out.  I agree it seems like a win win for both sides.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    And Rusty it is true that Cutler is overpaid, but that is the nature of the QB position.  With the salary cap the top guys can only get paid so much and teams are then forced to pay a premium to keep the 2nd tier guys because half the league doesn't  have a viable QB.  McCown is a career backup who played over his head for a few games this year.  Think Damon Huard 2006.  He isn't a long term answer and frankly while Cutler isn't a great QB the Bears offense was pretty dam good this year.  If they can get that defense to be even somewhat competent next season they can compete for a playoff spot (particularly since Trestman actually seems like a coach who can get more out of Cutler than Lovie ever did).  This is a 3/54 contract with a bunch of team options.  That isn't nearly as eyepopping as 7/126 though which is why I said to be patient and wait for the details.  This isn't MLB.  The devil is always in the details.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You think 54 million guarnateed for the next 3 years to watch a mopey, indifferent crybaby primadonna who has peaked as a QB, a "good deal"...

    This whole idea of "well, he's probably the best we're going to get, so let's give him one of those Brady new market deals", is defeatist and moronic.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, I do.  That's market rate for a third tier quarterback, which is exactly what Cutler is.  He fits right into the same ranks as Flacco, E. Manning, Stafford, Romo & Roethlisberger.  He will keep you competitive and you might be able to win it all with him so long as you don't need him to carry your entire team, although he is capable of catching fire for 3-4 straight games and doing just that.

    This is not the same deal as Flacco, Manning or Ryan got; I outlined why in my post above, which echoed PCM's earlier in the thread.  It's a short term deal with a 100% get-out-of-jail free card in years 4-7.

    I can't believe you're calling this a gamble, and then go on to talk about banking on a rookie QB to develop in a predictable fashion.  Nothing is riskier than leaving yourself unsettled at the most important position on the field by depending on journeymen and rookies.  Cutler may not be the best, but he is a legit starting QB in this league.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    In some sense this contract is a perfect example about how all unguaranteed money is not created equal and that more nuance is needed when looking at NFL contracts than just guaranteed and unguaranteed money.  How that guaranteed money is accounted for via the salary cap is important too.  In the case of Cutler's contract all of the unguaranteed money is actually unguaranteed in the sense that they can cut him in any time after year 3 with no salary cap implications.

    Now consider a contract like Flacco's.  Flacco signed a similar deal with 52 million in guaranteed money.  Consider that in 2016 Flacco is set to earn 18 million dollars in salary that is technically unguaranteed.  However cutting Flacco in 2016 would incur over 25 million in dead money.  The same sort of situation exists in 2017 because of the salary cap accounting the Ravens used to make his contract more affordable from a cap perspective in the first few years.  The point is that while those high base salaries are not technically guaranteed the Ravens can't afford to eat the cap hit from terminating the contract in those years which means for all intents and purposes he is going to see that money one way or another.  That money is essentially guaranteed even though it doesn't get presented that way in the anaylsis of the contract.  Many contracts for high paid players are like this, but Cutler's is not.  The guarantee really is just the first 3 years.  It is a much better deal for the Bears which they can afford to do since they can afford to eat Cutler's cap number in the first few years.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Bye Bye Chicago

    I see nothing wrong with the Cutler deal. With him they know they have a "good" QB, like some others here have said, I think Chicago needs a stinking defense and they will be fine because the Bears two big receivers should have a big year next year.

     
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