BYE-BYE WES!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I assure you the answer is more because of their abilities to learn the complexities of the offense, and not because they weren't equipped with better physical skills than Wes. Yes, smarts does matter, but I would bet that we can find a better athlete with as much cerebral ability in someone elses WR scrap heap. Saying anything other than "We'll see..." when asked about his future is suicidal under this regime. Most of our "standout" players are beneficieries of our organization, not the other way around. Real smart guys grasp that. He isn't as smart as many thought based on this unsuitable strategy. I'm disappointed but I think he's gone now unless he "clarifies" his deep desires to be a Patriot. We shall see......
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    I see.  Thanks for the assurance.  So where and who are all these other players that have both the smarts and better physical skills than Welker and exactly how much are they charging for their services?  And lest we forget, these many many people also have to have the nads to run the middle routes and catch the balls he does.  He don't run no diva streaks.  

    As for his "suicidal" words, I might suggest it is suicidal for the pats not to consider his contract request.  Sure the pats will go on and you root for the laundry, blah blah, blah.  The offense drives the Pats bus and that bus will not run nearly as efficiently without him should they part ways.  

    As for success outside the organization, don't forget the pats sought Welker, not the other way around.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I vehemently disagree. At one time, that WAS a true statement. But now, at 31, after having reconstructive knee surgery and a huge, game changing, missed catch in the SB...he is on a decline if trying to adapt to a new offense and a lesser QB. However, if he makes it good and shows strong loyalty to the Pats, TB12 makes it worth his while. Otherwise, he will fade quickly.
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    yep that dropped ball completely diminished his skills.  And how in the world did an old receiver with a gimpy knee lead the league in catches and finish second in receiving yards?  

    Rally, my apologies.  I've got you all wrong.  BTW - do you have a brother that goes by Rusty?  
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : REALLY! What don't you understand about that? Wes, as with most other WRs without TB12 would be average, at best. At this point in his carreer, 31, reconstruct knee surg, and only getting slower and less explosive by the day. Age, my friend, is the enemy. If he doesn't stay with the PATS or find his way to say, DENVER, then he will fade into oblivion. IF you, or any other posters here don't see that, then its only because you've not been there done that, like say....ME! Now, go read SI and get your QB Couch ready for the season. Pile on if you care, but I speak from a position of experience, not just from the sofa with pizza in my face being CaptnFoxboro. G'day!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    Yep - time for the pats to kick him to the curb.  Brady can no longer carry his most reliable receiver.  Who cares if Welker has led the league in receptions over the past few years on a marginal contract.  Sucks for him, right?  He just needs to straighten up and take his medicne.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

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    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Oh, and one last thing, "CAPTN". I love the Patriots and have since 1962. I don't love any players, just the team and ORG. Even when they sucked, I was the same way. Even when I palyed, for a good long while mind you, I still was a fan of theirs. Man crushes are for, well, those who man crush. I love Boston, and any team that wears the name. So, you can love love a whiney little wide-out when he's outperforming his contract all you want. He's a millionaire many times over and needs to shut up, just like he has been til now and he will regain his due. Now then, go watch ESPN, I hear the fantasy draft is spooling up! REALLLLLYYYY!!!!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    Nobody agrees with you including.....UD6   Time to end this thread!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I read Welker's "not sure" as a little added leverage to spring a little added vigorish out of the front office. 

    The franchise tag has NFL-defined rules, and the rules don't cover the offseason workout bonuses that the Patriots crave.  So, if the Patriots want to pony up an extra $250,000, Welker will work out.  No greenbacks no grunts, fair enough?  If Welker's agent and the front office settle at an extra $125,000 I wouldn't be too surprised.  Hey, it's extra gravy and every agent likes that stuff.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    "chance to further be made into a legend by TB12 (even after dropping one of the most critical passes of his life)"

    Good grief!!! A valid point can be made that Wes helped Brady out in his numbers by nothing more than YAC. Cripes! A 6'3" WR would have problems catching that Brady OVERTHROW. Wes undoubtedly took a bullet from Brady by "taking the blame" for the poorly thrown ball. (Did you happen to see the horrible INT Brady tossed Groink's way? Was that Groink's fault too?)

    FA is there for the players. If he can get the money in Foxboro, good. If not, he'll move on. Nothing personal. He,a s well as we, have seen how this works with players in their 30's. They sign a contract, get good up front $, and are cut as soon as they either don't cut it or get injured and can't perform up to the team's standards. IT'S A BUSINESS!!!!

    No one for any team is irreplacable. We saw what happened when Brady went down for the season. An 11 win season and NOT making the playoffs is an oddity. It's the team. Why, look how Brady stepped in when Drew got waylayed!

    So, stop with the anti-Welker vitriol. he's earned the right to get the best deal he can at this stage of his career, whether it be in NE or elsewhere. Let's applaud him for what he's done in a NE uniform, and hope he re-signs here.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I think it is bad timing for Wes Buckner to be demanding anything.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

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    So Welker is going against the "Patriot way" for saying "I don't know" in response to a question about showing up for OTA's.  If that is the case, I ask if you remember:

    1. Ty Law calling Belichick a liar when they were in contract negotiations.  They later patched it up and maintain a strong relationship to this day.

    2. Logan Mankins saying he was "disrespected" and "furious" about how the Patriots were treating him when he was franchised.  They then signed him to a huge extension and he remains an integral member of the team.

    3. Asante Samuel publicly criticizing Belichick and whining about getting the franchise tag, then coming back and contributing to a 16-0 season.

    4. Vince Wilfork making his dissatisfaction with the franchise tag very known to the public, then resigning and becoming one of the top players and leaders on the team.

    The list goes on and on.  Yet you are ready to run one of the best players and most professional, hardest workers on the team out of town for saying the words "I don't know", even after saying he was "happy" with the franchise tag, which is an incredibly rare statement.  There is a giant gap in logic here.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]I think it is bad timing for Wes Buckner to be demanding anything.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    Seriously...

    Wes Welker has 2 people to blame for not being able to name his price in a new multi-year Pats Contract:  Logan Mankins and Wes Welker...  Head on over to WalterFootball's 2012 FA signing list and contract numbers that the top OGs got paid (on the open-market, btw)...then click on Mankins 2012 stats on any roster layout of players, and keep in mind the fact of the 9 mil a year deal Pats finally gave him before the start of this past season.  Wes?  Regardless of Mankins, IF he makes that catch (a bad throw...and a bad through that hit the Pro WRs 2 hands for what was the most important reception he ever needed to haul in).  

    Wes makes that grab, and the Mankins situation doesn't mean much...  But he missed the Lombardi-Award giving catch- And so the past deal with Mankins looms much larger as it relates to WW.

    Yup, I was fanatically on The Player's sides this offseason.  Yup, WW plays a spot that people get crushed while playing...  But he's also asking for #1 WR dough- I'm not really sure he'd ever accept Top 1-5 Slot Wideout dough.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    WW will be traded for a 2013 1st rounder or 2 second rounders this year and next years--He has become much too outspoken lately and has over rated his ability-TB has been a big part of WW success--He is done- BB has had enough of his tweets and publicity--thank you for 3 great years-now it's time to fade into oblivion like many other Pats who over valued themselves out of the Pats system!In Response to BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]With his public show of uncertainty as to whether he is 100% committed to the Patriots' cause, despite being guaranteed over $9,000,000.00 for one more year of work with the chance to further be made into a legend by TB12 (even after dropping one of the most critical passes of his life), I would like to be the first to say BYE-BYE to Mr. Welker.  Someone needs to remind this smurf that 31-yo, 5-10, 185lb receivers with suspect knees get slower and old really fast. I'd venture to say ONLY TB-12 and Peyton could give this guy another really productive 2, maybe 3 seasons. Fix what you said WES, or otherwise, its off to the "David Givens/David Patton Memorial, overrated, wide-out grave yard" for ya. Shoot, TB12 can make any decent athlete a houshold name. Wise up WES! You aren't an O-lineman who saves Tom's life every play! You are a small, moving target he can hit with precision accuracy. MAYBE I WILL TAKE YOUR PLACE! Regardless, you won't be missed. NEXT!!!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Oh, and one last thing, "CAPTN". I love the Patriots and have since 1962. I don't love any players, just the team and ORG. Even when they sucked, I was the same way. Even when I palyed, for a good long while mind you, I still was a fan of theirs. Man crushes are for, well, those who man crush. I love Boston, and any team that wears the name. So, you can love love a whiney little wide-out when he's outperforming his contract all you want. He's a millionaire many times over and needs to shut up, just like he has been til now and he will regain his due. Now then, go watch ESPN, I hear the fantasy draft is spooling up! REALLLLLYYYY!!!!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

     So YOU played football ?

    Wow ...

    REALLY ?

    Clap ...clap ...clap .

    Guess what ?

    Many of the posters here did as well
    ( Including  pizza lovin' me )

    As far as that lil nugget goes ...It kinda means squattss .

    Just because a person owns a football PLAYING resume doesn't mean they know more about the game than a fan who's never played. .

    It's likely he does ..but not granted .

    You think you know more about football than Greg Cosell ? 

    Or Mike Leach ?

    They never suited up ...must be dum dums .

    This board is about sharing OPINIONS .

    Your dissatisfaction with Welker is duly noted

    I choose to disagree .

    So does my ten year old son .

    We sat together in the cold in Foxboro last Jan. and watched Welker cross the goal line on the games opening series , setting the tone for the nights romp .

     My son's never suited up (yet ) but I bet if I ask him if he thinks Welker would be "just another scrub" if he played for a different team  -
     He'd know the correct answer .

    RalleyC ... You're a Pats fan .
     God bless.
    If you think Welker's best days are behind him and don't want the Pats to damage their cap in future years  - I totally understand
    ( who knows , you could be right )
     But hammerin Welker's ability as of RIGHT NOW and claiming he's just a greedy me-first guy is out of line... and my guess is with a week or two's worth of reflection , you'll most likely realize it .


    Capt out.

    PS

    My 2 cents on Welkers compensation .

    Considering the pricetag for top shelve Wrs keeps climbing upwards  -

    I think he's worth about 8 mil a year ....give or take.

    I'd consider giving him a deal thats looks something like this :

    3 Years = 22.5 million

    7.50 per year avg.

     ( 12 mil bonus  - actually 10 mil bonus + 2 mil salary for year 1 )

    Pats give him the extra 3rd year ( they've allegedly only offering a 2 year deal ) and Welker also gets an extra 3 mil up front ( instead of the current 9 mil franchise tag salary )

     2nd year salary ( 7.5 ) is guaranteed if he's on the roster on the 1st day of the leagues new year in 2013 ( thats 19.5 total for two years ...about the total it would cost to franchise him again next year  )

    3rd year of deal is where the Pats get some payback as his salary would be very managable - He gets the remaining 3 mil if he's on the roster on the 1st day of the leagues new year in 2014 .
    ( Add in some escalator incentives that both parties would happy to see him attain  and he earns another 1.5 mil which would then make the total deal 3 years -24 mil  ...or 8 mil a year )

    Nice way to reward a player that has always done things the Patriot way.and shows no sign that his skills  / work ethic will seriously diminish once he gets payed.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from theshinez. Show theshinez's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    WOW, this post is stupid.  Wes is the man and has done his all for the Pats!  He's just making sure he takes care of himself and his family.  The Pats brass is doing the same.  Don't get all butt hurt because Wes didn't call you for advise and put his health at risk for mere peanuts!!  I think the Draft needs to hurry up and get here.....the natives are getting restless. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rusco56. Show rusco56's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I say we trade brady and keep wes!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    It's as simple at this gang, if WW wants to remain a Patriot, be a on a team with one of the best QB's ever, and have a legitimate chance at a SB every year, he will compromise his demands, if not, he walks......
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chloedancer65. Show Chloedancer65's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I don't believe it, not yet anyway! Wes was vacationing with Brady and lets not forget that Brady restructed his contract to free up some money.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from norichcrybabies. Show norichcrybabies's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]With his public show of uncertainty as to whether he is 100% committed to the Patriots' cause, despite being guaranteed over $9,000,000.00 for one more year of work with the chance to further be made into a legend by TB12 (even after dropping one of the most critical passes of his life), I would like to be the first to say BYE-BYE to Mr. Welker.  Someone needs to remind this smurf that 31-yo, 5-10, 185lb receivers with suspect knees get slower and old really fast. I'd venture to say ONLY TB-12 and Peyton could give this guy another really productive 2, maybe 3 seasons. Fix what you said WES, or otherwise, its off to the "David Givens/David Patton Memorial, overrated, wide-out grave yard" for ya. Shoot, TB12 can make any decent athlete a houshold name. Wise up WES! You aren't an O-lineman who saves Tom's life every play! You are a small, moving target he can hit with precision accuracy. MAYBE I WILL TAKE YOUR PLACE! Regardless, you won't be missed. NEXT!!!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    He lost his job when he dropped that pass.  Ask Assante how Bill feels about players who are outstanding and choke on the biggest plays on the biggest stage... 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Look, it's as simple as the following for us group of "Disloyal, Wes-Welker-bashing, 'Ingrates'":  The fact is, We overthink things....   We believe crazy & st#p#d sh#t, like:  It might help Running the ball AND passing the ball, even in light of the fact that we have a super-duper, wicked totally awesome Quarterback.  We also foolishly take into account ridiculous stuff, like Salary Cap Management...

    Salary Cap Management:

    120 Mil for each team.

    Just 53 guys, right?  Lmao...not even close.  53 Active.  Past years was No More than 80 Max Total at any given time during the year.  A Rule Change forwarded this offseason, Wants this number to up to 90 now. 

    The 53 is "Active", In season...It doesn't account for people placed on The Physically Unable to Perform <PUP /> for 6 weeks (or however long it is), OR Players placed on Injured Reserve (IR), and now there's also non-counting rules granted an added guy who may be in The Military, along with the potential for yet 1 more non-counting player with a concussion injury (forget the name given?).

    That 80 (or maybe 90 now), IS the number that which includes these PUP, IR, and other guys...BUT, that 80 (or 90), as well as that in-season 53 (and this too, mighta been boosted to 54, with that 3rd string QB now being designated ANY position...unless that's just the 46(?) gameday- see, it's a mess ain't it?)- now DOESN'T include players placed on PUP and IR, prior to the either the very last or 2nd to last (3rd or 4th preseason game, I think it states)- cutdown before the Regular Season Starts.

    Now I don't believe that Practice Squad guys count against that 120 mil cap...but ya better d#mn well believe that either: Most (usually the case now with individual player contracts), OR simply ALL of some guys contract who's been IR'ed or PUP'ed, DOES count against that 120 mil total.

    Guess what also counts?  Contracted Players who are no longer on the team.  Most often, these guys get trimmed off the roster just prior to that date of their yearly salary full amount total, counting against the cap...  Definately not always.  99% of the time though, they STILL very much count, less cash or equal cash-wise.  This sometimes includes in certain instances, Retired Players, as well as moreso-Contracted Players from the previous year, no longer on the team (guarenteed money- Unless another team picks them up; And then, even with this, there's 100 more stipulations wherein that former could very well, still be paying something).

    What else?  Oh...sometimes during The NFL Season, teams cut guys, and add a different one (anyone ever here of this happening?).  Even when said addition takes the place of said cut guy, Odds are that money is still filtering out here and there, regardless of the fact that 1 guy's out and 1 guy's in (not that simple).

    ~~~

    Brady, even with his restructure (finally Top 5 QB money, still I believe), Plus Wilfork (huge contract...numbers, I don't have), Plus now Mankins (#1-#2 in the entire NFL OG Money) Plus now Mayo (#1 in the entire NFL ILB money, equal to only Patrick Willis-EQUAL)...

    And now, in spite of ALL this knowledge right here, Some of you believe that it's wise- it's "loyal" to grant Wes Welker, a slot wide receiver (who IS exceptional playing slot, backed by a HOF'er gettin' the ball to him), A contract for that of a #1 Wide Receiver in The NFL...  7 mil+ a year (but wait, what did WW already turn down <unsure? />- Wasn't it a 2 year deal that he passed on, worth either 15 or 16 million, or something?!?)...

    Yes, in a perfect crystal blue-polka dotted sky world where it never rains, there's no traffic jams, and we're all rich, Yes- Wes Welker SHOULD get- idk? ...A Trillion Dollars every year- 'til he decides himself to retire, at age 87.  Unfortunately, this ain't the real-life hard structure & system that we absolutely MUST work within though...  Time to wake up to the harsh reality of what it takes in hard team cap management practices, in order to field a dominant team, Every Single Year.  You're in la-la land.  Will NE be worse If Brady no longer has WW as a weapon...yea, probably.  The flip-side however, is that NE will be Washington-Redskins-Worse, If they begin taking the money-management style of wildly overpaying, OR simply allotting wildly high numbered cash contracts to just 6 starters of their 22 starters, and their 45 (46?) game-day performers.  Is Welker one of the "6 Best" Players on NE currently...?  No doubt...but that incidental form of bad deduction, simply plays no part in terms of fielding a complete and deep 53 man in-season squad, and keepin' below that 120 mil Hard Cap.

    It svx.  Reality sometimes does...  But better to at least attempt to have a clearer and fuller (and cr#pier) picture of the way things are, than to set up life's camp in the shiney, happy fictional world of Chuck-ey Cheese's gameroom (I tried...they kick you out in the morning).       
      
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from neackerwitz. Show neackerwitz's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    When Deion Branch left it cost us 2-3 rings...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Most players cry about having the franchise tag slapped on them...and most of them end up back with their current team, usually with a long-term deal to follow (not always, but it seems as if it works out that way most of the time).

    Welker's public statements are all about maintaining some leverage in the negotiations.

    Nothing to see here...
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! :  So YOU played football ? Wow ... REALLY ? Clap ...clap ...clap . Guess what ? Many of the posters here did as well ( Including  pizza lovin' me ) As far as that lil nugget goes ...It kinda means squattss . Just because a person owns a football PLAYING resume doesn't mean they know more about the game than a fan who's never played. . It's likely he does ..but not granted . You think you know more about football than Greg Cosell ?  Or Mike Leach ? They never suited up ...must be dum dums . This board is about sharing OPINIONS . Your dissatisfaction with Welker is duly noted I choose to disagree . So does my ten year old son . We sat together in the cold in Foxboro last Jan. and watched Welker cross the goal line on the games opening series , setting the tone for the nights romp .  My son's never suited up (yet ) but I bet if I ask him if he thinks Welker would be "just another scrub" if he played for a different team  -  He'd know the correct answer . RalleyC ... You're a Pats fan .  God bless. If you think Welker's best days are behind him and don't want the Pats to damage their cap in future years  - I totally understand ( who knows , you could be right )  But hammerin Welker's ability as of RIGHT NOW and claiming he's just a greedy me-first guy is out of line... and my guess is with a week or two's worth of reflection , you'll most likely realize it . Capt out. PS My 2 cents on Welkers compensation . Considering the pricetag for top shelve Wrs keeps climbing upwards  - I think he's worth about 8 mil a year ....give or take. I'd consider giving him a deal thats looks something like this : 3 Years = 22.5 million 7.50 per year avg.  ( 12 mil bonus  - actually 10 mil bonus + 2 mil salary for year 1 ) Pats give him the extra 3rd year ( they've allegedly only offering a 2 year deal ) and Welker also gets an extra 3 mil up front ( instead of the current 9 mil franchise tag salary )  2nd year salary ( 7.5 ) is guaranteed if he's on the roster on the 1st day of the leagues new year in 2013 ( thats 19.5 total for two years ...about the total it would cost to franchise him again next year  ) 3rd year of deal is where the Pats get some payback as his salary would be very managable - He gets the remaining 3 mil if he's on the roster on the 1st day of the leagues new year in 2014 . ( Add in some escalator incentives that both parties would happy to see him attain  and he earns another 1.5 mil which would then make the total deal 3 years -24 mil  ...or 8 mil a year ) Nice way to reward a player that has always done things the Patriot way.and shows no sign that his skills  / work ethic will seriously diminish once he gets payed.
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro[/QUOTE]

    ^^^this.
    I personally think he's going the way of Assane, but ya.  This.
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]When Deion Branch left it cost us 2-3 rings...
    Posted by neackerwitz[/QUOTE]

    That's not fair, hindsight's 20-20...Only NOW do ya realize that IF only New England had just caved in to his training camp holdout demands for 7 mil a year, The Pats would've been guarenteed those 3 extra Superbowls, in light of Branch's perennial All-Star Star performances while he was a Seahawk.



    (Good...god)  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]When Deion Branch left it cost us 2-3 rings...
    Posted by neackerwitz[/QUOTE]

    You are funny!

     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Timesedge, I hear you! I know the guy has been amazing as a Patriot in many, many ways. One of those is that he has sacrificed self for team. Bottom line is he's made MILLIONS to play a game, has been turned into a household name by a system orchestrated by TB/BB that is a Household name making factory, BUT NOW?, after not making a catch he's made dozens of times, in the biggest game of his life in front of the entire universe, he decides he's gonna break from his normal, humble practices and make a public statment about his situation? Sorry, but his most difficult to replace, valuable attributes have been his personality, leadership and team first attitude. 9.4-million and eternal stardom should be enough for you to sit tight, do your negotiating in the most professional manner, and again be rewarded for that. NOT THIS! Running his mouth has done him in, WATCH! I know O-lineman have done it recently, but they are TB12's bodyguards! This little dude may have guts, but he just proved to me and many others, he's not got nearly the smarts. WES was a model Patriot, now just another fool who will be shown the door. Plug and play....WHO'S NEXT IN THE STAR MAKING MACHINE?
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]


    YOU ARE A FOOL!

    DID YOU JUST COMPARE WES WELKER TO DAVID PATTEN AND DAVID GIVENS?!

    About the only thing those 3 have in common is TB12... This much we agree on.  Did Patten or Givens lead the NFL in catches while they were with TB12?  Have Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson or any other receiver had more graps since Wes has been with TB12.  Oh by the way don't forget a blown out knee to both Wes and TB12 along the way and still he leads all receivers in the NFL in catches since he's been here.

    Of course having TB12 as your QB is a huge advantage and of course his value is greater to the Pats than to another team... But you don't have a clue if you think for a moment that Welker and Patten and Givens are in the same class.

     

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