BYE-BYE WES!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Jints. Looked like this guy belonged in the combines. Some roided want to be. Don't think he'd looked too good after you carving him up like a Turkey Day bird. All I have to say is, 'only thing I like better than a good bj is a good street fight' where I grew. Maybe the Canseco Slugger is all you'd really need anyway.
    Posted by GEAUX-TIGRES[/QUOTE]

    If I talked about my personal experiences in the arena you speak of, both you and "Jints" would wet yourselves. Shut it down fool. You have no idea about who I am or where I've been. You had better bring more than a bat or 3-inch blade if you get within my reach. OOOOOh, you are both so tough! Now go back and jump in the bed together, or go run to mommy now.........Back to my point.....WES WELKER has made a huge mistake........

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

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    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]Never seen a player who has given his all to the team while catching 464 balls in 5 seasons get so much flak from the fans for trying to get a decent contract....People suggesting that Edelman or this Ebert guy could remotely replace Welker are loony. Ooooo Ebert signed a four year deal, clearly he's going to replace the best star receiver in football, duh. Would his production be as good on other teams?  No, but Jerry Rice's production wouldn't be as good without Joe, Marvin Harrison's production wouldn't be as good without Peyton.  Tom Brady's production wouldn't be as good without BB.  What a stupid and shortsighted argument, it insults how good a player Welker is.  Maybe he is gone after this season, heck maybe it's the prudent move for the team, but it's pathetic to see how some people are reacting to this.  He's earned every single penny that comes his way, whether it be this year or next.  I doubt people on this board would be so altruistic if they were in his shoes...
    Posted by andrewmcintosh[/QUOTE]

    Drew, your points are all valid about WW. But, that isn't the issue here. read the first post and you will undersatnd my angst with what he did, which has proven out in the recent week.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]WW tried to play poker with BB. Did you notice Ebert signed a 4 year deal. 
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]
    Every draft pick gets a 4-year deal.  It's part of the CBA.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]Never seen a player who has given his all to the team while catching 464 balls in 5 seasons get so much flak from the fans for trying to get a decent contract....People suggesting that Edelman or this Ebert guy could remotely replace Welker are loony. Ooooo Ebert signed a four year deal, clearly he's going to replace the best star receiver in football, duh. Would his production be as good on other teams?  No, but Jerry Rice's production wouldn't be as good without Joe, Marvin Harrison's production wouldn't be as good without Peyton.  Tom Brady's production wouldn't be as good without BB.  What a stupid and shortsighted argument, it insults how good a player Welker is.  Maybe he is gone after this season, heck maybe it's the prudent move for the team, but it's pathetic to see how some people are reacting to this.  He's earned every single penny that comes his way, whether it be this year or next.  I doubt people on this board would be so altruistic if they were in his shoes...
    Posted by andrewmcintosh[/QUOTE]

    You did notice that when Edelman played the slot for an entire game, he had 11 receptions.

    No question Welker has been a great contributor since BB stole him from Miami. The real question is whether his production is a product of the "system." In BB's mind, every piece of the "system" has a value, and my sense is that Welker's long-term demands exceed that value to BB given the whole of the team. Bill has never forsaken the "team" for the benefit of a particular player. I don't think he'll start with Welker.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : You did notice that when Edelman played the slot for an entire game, he had 11 receptions. No question Welker has been a great contributor since BB stole him from Miami. The real question is whether his production is a product of the "system." In BB's mind, every piece of the "system" has a value, and my sense is that Welker's long-term demands exceed that value to BB given the whole of the team. Bill has never forsaken the "team" for the benefit of a particular player. I don't think he'll start with Welker.
    Posted by sml1210[/QUOTE]

    Right on! SML.....and now, validating my original post that started this "converstion", to no knowlegeable fan's surprise, ESPN is saying that the Pats are upset with WW continuing to talk about the negotiations in the open media. I wish his IQ was as at least as high as his average number of catches each season! BYE-BYE WES! You have signed your own fate. If only you had made THE CATCH and shut up!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Drew, your points are all valid about WW. But, that isn't the issue here. read the first post and you will undersatnd my angst with what he did, which has proven out in the recent week.
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    It wasn't necisarrily directed at you...I just get tired of hearing fans complain when players try to maximize their earnings.  It's the exact same thing you and I do every day of our lives, anyone who denies that is a collosal hypocrite or an outright fool.  Welker is a consumate professional. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : You did notice that when Edelman played the slot for an entire game, he had 11 receptions. No question Welker has been a great contributor since BB stole him from Miami. The real question is whether his production is a product of the "system." In BB's mind, every piece of the "system" has a value, and my sense is that Welker's long-term demands exceed that value to BB given the whole of the team. Bill has never forsaken the "team" for the benefit of a particular player. I don't think he'll start with Welker.
    Posted by sml1210[/QUOTE]
    Look I like Edelman plenty, but he has 1 game of good NFL production.  Even attempting to compare him to Welker is an insult to how good Welker is.  And I understand there are limits to how far the Pats should extend themselves, that's how you maintain winning football teams.  All fine in my book.  It just angers me when fans try to take this holier than thou stance when players try to exert the leverage they have earned.  If you had busted it for 5 years for your employer, totally setting the standard for people in your particular niche profession, and genuinely felt underpaid; you would do everything in your power to recitfy that.  End of story.


    Edit: I feel compelled to address the "system" nonsense, because it is painfully overblown by the fans IMO.  Is BB the best coach in football? in my opinion "yes" hands down.  Does he routinely out-coach the competition?  Yes.  Does he have some special "system" that magically turns bad players into stars?  NO, that is garbage.  Was garbage 5 years ago, it's garbage now.  Talent wins games, coaching wins games.  You need both to make it the distance.  The whole "patriot way" thing is sooooo overblown, there is nothing special in the water at the Razor.  Again, I'm not arguing Welker wouldn't see a drop in production if he left NE...But that 100% does NOT mean he is a "product of the system".  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I really like WW and think he has been so underpaid for production over the last 5 years but that's done.  Do I care if they pay him 10+ a year even though its not my money yes, because soon there will be a need to extend some other players who have a bigger long term impact.

    With that also comes where WW makes his living, in the middle.  You know have Gronk, Henandez, maybe Edelman, Fells, Woody, maybe Ocho (still a fan, I know crazy), Vereen, Gonzalez and who knows what the rookie will be but my point is there's a log jam of over the middle type players.  WW will be missed specially by Tom but to think the O will slow down is not IMO too accurate.

    The Pats have the players on the roster to keep moving the chains.  WW has been an amazing patriot, coming back from ACL injury all the catches, YAC ect but he has to look at what's on the team and know the Patriots hold all the cards.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME2. Show NEGAME2's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Right on! SML.....and now, validating my original post that started this "converstion", to no knowlegeable fan's surprise, ESPN is saying that the Pats are upset with WW continuing to talk about the negotiations in the open media. I wish his IQ was as at least as high as his average number of catches each season! BYE-BYE WES! You have  signed your own fate. If  only you had made THE CATCH and shut up!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    and You believe everthing ESPN says!!!! Pats would never say that. Its Young of the Globe reporting that from a "source" of the Patriots. don't believe it at all!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I'm a fan of WW and hope he stays with the team.  At the same time I hope the Pats do not overspend for past production. 

    I also trully believe that if Welker was not on the team, that the Offense will be just as prolific as it was with him.  They will adjust, incorporate other players and move on. 

    There was life before Welker and there will be life after Welker.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : and You believe everthing ESPN says!!!! Pats would never say that. Its Young of the Globe reporting that from a "source" of the Patriots. don't believe it at all!!
    Posted by NEGAME2[/QUOTE]

    NEGAME, No, if you read my original post that started this thread back the first week of April, I already knew this was the case. I believe it because I've seen and heard it in the instance of Ty Law, Asante Samuel, Willie Mac, Lawyer Malloy, Dieon Branch, etc., etc., etc.  Where there is smoke, there is fire. Catch up NEGAME! Just how long have you been watching BB operate? This is standard operating procedure for these NE PATRIOTS. The rule is, SHUT UP, DO YOUR JOB, and you will be rewarded! With the an emphasis on SHUT UP!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Do we really know how integral WW is to the Patriots plans in the future?  Including this season?

    There is a new offensive coordinator.

    A bunch of new receivers.

    A bunch of young running backs not to mention some full backs.

    I'm not saying they are going to a ground and pound based offense but I trully believe they are going to incorporate the backs more into the offense and ofcourse there will still be plenty of passing.  Probably more than some on this board would like but the passing game for the Pats isn't going away.

    Also, we have know idea what BB and Josh McD are thinking.  They may already have been planning for life without Welker long before this contract stuff came out. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]Do we really know how integral WW is to the Patriots plans in the future?  Including this season? There is a new offensive coordinator. A bunch of new receivers. A bunch of young running backs not to mention some full backs. I'm not saying they are going to a ground and pound based offense but I trully believe they are going to incorporate the backs more into the offense and ofcourse there will still be plenty of passing.  Probably more than some on this board would like but the passing game for the Pats isn't going away. Also, we have know idea what BB and Josh McD are thinking.  They may already have been planning for life without Welker long before this contract stuff came out. 
    Posted by Salcon[/QUOTE]
    An important caviat to the "bunch of new WRs" almost all of them are over 30 and/or on 1 year deals.  They're very, very thin there in terms of youth.  Granted, Welker doesn't subtract from the age problem.  Real solution has to come thru the draft IMO.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : An important caviat to the "bunch of new WRs" almost all of them are over 30 and/or on 1 year deals.  They're very, very thin there in terms of youth.  Granted, Welker doesn't subtract from the age problem.  Real solution has to come thru the draft IMO.
    Posted by andrewmcintosh[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : NEGAME, No, if you read my original post that started this thread back the first week of April, I already knew this was the case. I believe it because I've seen and heard it in the instance of Ty Law, Asante Samuel, Willie Mac, Lawyer Malloy, Dieon Branch, etc., etc., etc.  Where there is smoke, there is fire. Catch up NEGAME! Just how long have you been watching BB operate? This is standard operating procedure for these NE PATRIOTS. The rule is, SHUT UP, DO YOUR JOB, and you will be rewarded! With the an emphasis on SHUT UP!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    That Shut up thing, BS until now WW has been the ultimate Patriot.  It is an insult to a player who has done so much for a team, who's played at a bargain price for 5 years to expect the respect of the team he has given his all for.  Sorry the shut up and do your job, he's done that so your theory I would had bought had the Patriots offered him a deal that even I consider is not matching to his production.

    With that said, I wrote that the Pats have all the leverage because WW makes him mark in the middle of the field and the Patriots have at least 5 players who also catch a ton of passes in the middle so the O although would miss WW the team mate the production gets spread around.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Los Manos can do what Welker does and at a significantly lesser pay, the heck needs Welker? Going get! I hear St. Louis needs weapons for Sammy B, I hear we need a power-back after we lost to BJE. 1 + 1 = 2
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : That Shut up thing, BS until now WW has been the ultimate Patriot.  It is an insult to a player who has done so much for a team, who's played at a bargain price for 5 years to expect the respect of the team he has given his all for.  Sorry the shut up and do your job, he's done that so your theory I would had bought had the Patriots offered him a deal that even I consider is not matching to his production. With that said, I wrote that the Pats have all the leverage because WW makes him mark in the middle of the field and the Patriots have at least 5 players who also catch a ton of passes in the middle so the O although would miss WW the team mate the production gets spread around. Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE] The Pats dont pay for past accomplishments. Sure, Welker has been productive since he came to New England, but he's a 30 year old SLOT WR who doesn't stretch the field and eats up space where Hernandez and Gronk should be operating in the first place. Welker also doesn't help our running game as he forces defenses to crowd the box to defend him. BB was being nice offering him 7 mill per, I'd give home 5 mill and if he doesn't like it he can kiss my ^$$. I didn't like him dropping the game clinching pass in the SB either.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!



    Some fans seem to think these contract issues are much more personal than they really are.  They're just tough negotiations over a lot of money, but I don't think the Pats are out to "stick it to anyone," and while every party in the negotiation may ocassionally feel upset about what the other side is doing and say something negative, ultimately it's all just a business deal and ultimately it's just the financial stuff that matters.  Look at the Mankins situation.  All sorts of fans and reporters were making all kinds of speculation about hard feelings on both sides and about one party wanting to take it out on the other, but in the end everyone just kissed and made up and got on with the business of football.   

    WW and the Pats now have a deal they've agreed to.  It may not be exactly what either side wanted and there might be a little grumbling because of that, but in the end both sides will move on to the business of football.  The Pats aren't going to trade Welker to get back at him.  They'll make the decision what to do with him based solely on what's best for the team next year.  And if that means keeping Welker (which I think it does) that's exactly what they'll do.  One thing BB won't do is trade Welker out of spite and risk hurting the team if keeping Welker makes more sense from a football perspective.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": The Pats dont pay for past accomplishments. Sure, Welker has been productive since he came to New England, but he's a 30 year old SLOT WR who doesn't stretch the field and eats up space where Hernandez and Gronk should be operating in the first place. Welker also doesn't help our running game as he forces defenses to crowd the box to defend him. BB was being nice offering him 7 mill per, I'd give home 5 mill and if he doesn't like it he can kiss my ^$$. I didn't like him dropping the game clinching pass in the SB either.
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    Guess you missed the point, it was in referense to WW needs to shut up and things will happen, my point was he's been doing that for 5 years and at the end when its time to get a contract all of that didn't work, Patriots still not giving him a contract he believes its fair. 


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": The Pats dont pay for past accomplishments. Sure, Welker has been productive since he came to New England, but he's a 30 year old SLOT WR who doesn't stretch the field and eats up space where Hernandez and Gronk should be operating in the first place. Welker also doesn't help our running game as he forces defenses to crowd the box to defend him. BB was being nice offering him 7 mill per, I'd give home 5 mill and if he doesn't like it he can kiss my ^$$. I didn't like him dropping the game clinching pass in the SB either.
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]
     49Pats! Thats what I'm talking about. Too late to start crying about what you didn't make for what you've already done! Fire your agent, right? Otherwise, take the $4-5-million I might want to still give you and be thankful you are still a Patriot for 2012 and beyond. Otherwise, start kissing!!! Bout time I start seeing other posters who really understand football too.....You are one of the few who do!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Guess you missed the point, it was in referense to WW needs to shut up and things will happen, my point was he's been doing that for 5 years and at the end when its time to get a contract all of that didn't work, Patriots still not giving him a contract he believes its fair. 
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Pats, sorry, but you are wrong. Read the very first post at the beginning of this thread. WW openend his mouth at the absolute worst possible time, and never should have done it in the first place. Had he SHUT UP, he could have continued to negotiate in good faith, and in the worst case, just accepted the 2yr, 16-mil. He would've saved himself all of this misery, and it still would have been too much based on the way he ended last year with his skills on the other side of his prime.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Pats, sorry, but you are wrong. Read the very first post at the beginning of this thread. WW openend his mouth at the absolute worst possible time, and never should have done it in the first place. Had he SHUT UP, he could have continued to negotiate in good faith, and in the worst case, just accepted the 2yr, 16-mil. He would've saved himself all of this misery, and it still would have been too much based on the way he ended last year with his skills on the other side of his prime.
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    This is probably's WW last contract, and although I think the Pats have all the leverage two things could happen if he talks:

    1 Pats get sick of it, find a trading partner who WW agrees to negotiate with after the trade and he's gone
    2 Pats withdraw their offer, which they have basically done with the last offer being less than a month ago, they pay him the franchise tag for this season and WW goes signs with another team

    Either case WW will end up with another team IMO when its all said and done.  

    My point was from WW prespective, until recent he really hadn't said much and the offer he got to that point was less than he expected whether realistic or not so now he knows he'll either play for a TON of money for one year or get a long term deal with another team via a trade (less likely IMO) don't see anyone offering a 1st round pick for him unless he would be seen as another team as the missing like for a super bowl run, say a team like niners or chicago
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!



    Where are people getting these wierd ideas?  I don't think the Pats were ever seriously considering giving Welker a long-term deal.  Much more likely is that the two-year $16 million deal was the best they were going to offer for guaranteed money and length of contract.  Welker was trying to get more on a longer deal, but it was pretty clear the Pats weren't going to give more.  I think Welker always preferred the $9.5 million one-year deal over the $16 million two-year deal.  Sure there are some risks in turning down $16 million guaranteed, but Welker has a better chance of getting a big free agent deal next year than two years from now, so foregoing the $16 million offer for a chance at a big contract a year from now could very well pay off.  With $9.5 now guaranteed this year, Welker just needs to get $7 million guaranteed next year to beat the Pats offer. If he's franchise tagged again (very unlikely I think) he ends up with over $11 million next year.  And if he's not franchise tagged (most likely) he very likely could get a two- or three-year deal somewhere with guarantees worth more than $7 million. I'm sure Welker's annoyed the Pats didn't give him a bigger long-term deal, but Welker has clearly always felt that the franchise tag approach wasn't bad for him.  He's been hinting he'd take that since he was originally tagged.

    The idea that the Pats are putting the screws on him because he talked is just silly.  I think both parties have known for a long time that the 9.5 one-year franchise tag was the likely outcome.  The Pats probably pulled the longer term deal off the table just to end the (pointless) negotiations and get Welker in camp. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME2. Show NEGAME2's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : NEGAME, No, if you read my original post that started this thread back the first week of April, I already knew this was the case. I believe it because I've seen and heard it in the instance of Ty Law, Asante Samuel, Willie Mac, Lawyer Malloy, Dieon Branch, etc., etc., etc.  Where there is smoke, there is fire. Catch up NEGAME! Just how long have you been watching BB operate? This is standard operating procedure for these NE PATRIOTS. The rule is, SHUT UP, DO YOUR JOB, and you will be rewarded! With the an emphasis on SHUT UP!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]


    o you shfu!!  again the Patriots would NEVER comment on the players contract and btw can't find young s article cause it's been deleted. You can hear , read and surmise all you want, but you are not Bill Belichick, you are not in his head or in his mind and you do not know what he is going to do.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : o you shfu!!  again the Patriots would NEVER comment on the players contract and btw can't find young s article cause it's been deleted. You can hear , read and surmise all you want, but you are not Bill Belichick, you are not in his head or in his mind and you do not know what he is going to do.
    Posted by NEGAME2[/QUOTE]

    dang game you look fine in that new avatar. I'm tempted to start a NEGAME2 Appreciation thread.
     
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