BYE-BYE WES!

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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I would like to know how you come to the conclusion that Welker is on the other side of his best after a 122 catch season leading the league in receptions. Your entitled to your opinions, but I'd take a truck full of Wes Welkers at any reciever position if available at 31. For all you know WW could have another 3-5 very productive years ahead and if  the Pats let him go he could make you and the FO look rather silly.  Hetchinspete.  Posted by Hetchinspete[/QUOTE] HETCH, but in professional sports, trends and peer comparison is most relevant. Is the massive investment worth it on a player more likely to be in decline, or in a newer, younger model who can give you 5-7 years of upside?Aside from my personal experiences as an athlete who once was paid to play CB, here is a link that should give some clarity to why I say this: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=4007802
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]With his public show of uncertainty as to whether he is 100% committed to the Patriots' cause, despite being guaranteed over $9,000,000.00 for one more year of work with the chance to further be made into a legend by TB12 (even after dropping one of the most critical passes of his life), I would like to be the first to say BYE-BYE to Mr. Welker.  Someone needs to remind this smurf that 31-yo, 5-10, 185lb receivers with suspect knees get slower and old really fast. I'd venture to say ONLY TB-12 and Peyton could give this guy another really productive 2, maybe 3 seasons. Fix what you said WES, or otherwise, its off to the "David Givens/David Patton Memorial, overrated, wide-out grave yard" for ya. Shoot, TB12 can make any decent athlete a houshold name. Wise up WES! You aren't an O-lineman who saves Tom's life every play! You are a small, moving target he can hit with precision accuracy. MAYBE I WILL TAKE YOUR PLACE! Regardless, you won't be missed. NEXT!!!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    You are probably in the minority of your feelings to what WW has meant to the Patriots.  Go join the Jets forum and talk stoopid.
     
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    Rally---Congrats your idiotic thread is still going! 
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Welkers Friday night tweet :



    Trust me! I wouldnt.RT : why would you want to play for anyone but the Pats?

     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]Rally---Congrats your idiotic thread is still going! 
    Posted by Rocky[/QUOTE]

    Ah-Hah! Rocky........you seem to be getting the point of the OP. Stupid seems to get a bunch of attention from these "smart" PATS fans. I see you've posted on this thread multiple times too! Now then, isn't that the point of all of this? "Stupid is, as stupid does!" Don't be so quick to judge, my friend. 
    Tongue Out

     
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    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]Welkers Friday night tweet : Trust me! I wouldnt.RT @ Composeronymous : @ JoeFisher8 @ weswelker why would you want to play for anyone but the Pats?
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro[/QUOTE]

    Very smart move by WES! Again, the only way he stays is if he changes his "I don't know" sentiment on attending OTAs and does what Wes has always done up til now, toe the company line. He has ZERO leverage to openly discuss his situation based on recent events and where he is at in the timeline of his carreer.

     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I must be confused how many Lombardi Trophies have the Patriots won with WW playing the slot? That would be zero! I'm not hating, I'm just stating.. They need too get back to the more balanced attack and not the dog and pony show of the bubble screen to WW and whatever midget WR they can find. I'm just guessing that Ridley and Vereen will see plenty of touches this season provided they show they can handle the load during pre-season. If you notice the trend of BB's WR signings none of the guys are under 5'11 and all weigh in the 200 lbs range and all three of the new guys can take the top off the defense.Even Gonzalez is 6'0 and 195 and when healthy runs in the 4.4 range. We all know what Stallworth is as he was brought in to stretch the field a few years ago,and as for Lloyd that same ball that WW drops in the SB Lloyd catches with one hand!!! I know how much everyone in NE loves them some WW,but sometimes the end of the show arrives before we are ready. Brady's own wife called it,Tom can't throw the ball and catch it also...

     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]I must be confused how many Lombardi Trophies have the Patriots won with WW playing the slot? That would be zero! I'm not hating, I'm just stating.. They need too get back to the more balanced attack and not the dog and pony show of the bubble screen to WW and whatever midget WR they can find. I'm just guessing that Ridley and Vereen will see plenty of touches this season provided they show they can handle the load during pre-season. If you notice the trend of BB's WR signings none of the guys are under 5'11 and all weigh in the 200 lbs range and all three of the new guys can take the top off the defense.Even Gonzalez is 6'0 and 195 and when healthy runs in the 4.4 range. We all know what Stallworth is as he was brought in to stretch the field a few years ago,and as for Lloyd that same ball that WW drops in the SB Lloyd catches with one hand!!! I know how much everyone in NE loves them some WW,but sometimes the end of the show arrives before we are ready. Brady's own wife called it,Tom can't throw the ball and catch it also...
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]


    i am with YOU....

    how about adding a jeffery, mcnutt or one of the several 6' 3" or bigger, 220lb or so outside wr's in the draft.
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]I think it is bad timing for Wes Buckner to be demanding anything.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]
    His contract is up.  What would you suggest he do?  
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]So Welker is going against the "Patriot way" for saying "I don't know" in response to a question about showing up for OTA's.  If that is the case, I ask if you remember: 1. Ty Law calling Belichick a liar when they were in contract negotiations.  They later patched it up and maintain a strong relationship to this day. 2. Logan Mankins saying he was "disrespected" and "furious" about how the Patriots were treating him when he was franchised.  They then signed him to a huge extension and he remains an integral member of the team. 3. Asante Samuel publicly criticizing Belichick and whining about getting the franchise tag, then coming back and contributing to a 16-0 season. 4. Vince Wilfork making his dissatisfaction with the franchise tag very known to the public, then resigning and becoming one of the top players and leaders on the team. The list goes on and on.  Yet you are ready to run one of the best players and most professional, hardest workers on the team out of town for saying the words "I don't know", even after saying he was "happy" with the franchise tag, which is an incredibly rare statement.  There is a giant gap in logic here.
    Posted by pyegian[/QUOTE]
    you forgot the biggest one - the brady disconnect.  That all worked out.  

    The idea by some here that negotiating is not allowed within the patriots org is both arrogant and shortsighted.  
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]I must be confused how many Lombardi Trophies have the Patriots won with WW playing the slot? That would be zero! I'm not hating, I'm just stating.. They need too get back to the more balanced attack and not the dog and pony show of the bubble screen to WW and whatever midget WR they can find. I'm just guessing that Ridley and Vereen will see plenty of touches this season provided they show they can handle the load during pre-season. If you notice the trend of BB's WR signings none of the guys are under 5'11 and all weigh in the 200 lbs range and all three of the new guys can take the top off the defense.Even Gonzalez is 6'0 and 195 and when healthy runs in the 4.4 range. We all know what Stallworth is as he was brought in to stretch the field a few years ago,and as for Lloyd that same ball that WW drops in the SB Lloyd catches with one hand!!! I know how much everyone in NE loves them some WW,but sometimes the end of the show arrives before we are ready. Brady's own wife called it,Tom can't throw the ball and catch it also...
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]

    EXACTLY BOZO. The PATS don't need a "I don't know" if I'm gonna go to OTA's from WW. His stats are very misleading. With more balance, and a REAL outside/vertical threat, TB12's options take several of the throws to WW away for bigger gains and less predictability. David Givens and David Patten have 5 RINGS between them while WW has ZERO. I love WW, but did everyone forget what Julian Edleman did while WW was out? The guy had games catching 10+ for over 100yrds+ too. If Wes submits to his true value and role with the attitude he's dispalyed since getting here, and stops the "I don't know" attitude, them bring him along, otherwise, BYE-BYE WES!
     
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    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : ROT...he should tell the cheapo pats and their ingrate fans to stick it then come back with another team-one that may actually WIN a sb-and haunt them...now that would be justice  :  )
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    Listen to yourself. Yeah, that sounds like a real easy strategy to employ. If it were, then EVERY player in the league would do the same thing when they left their teams and would have rings now. IT don't work that way GENIUS.
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : you forgot the biggest one - the brady disconnect.  That all worked out.   The idea by some here that negotiating is not allowed within the patriots org is both arrogant and shortsighted.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    At the time, the players mentioned in your refenced post where the THE BEST players and anchors on their side of the ball not just on the PATS, but arguably in the enitre NFL! They meant so much more than WW does to our team now, AND they were in the PRIMES of their carreers, not entering the other side of it. I could say that even beyond TB12, we have several offensive players who are more valuable/critical to the PATS success right now. Don't be deceived by his numbers! Julian Edleman showed how easy it was to replace WW when he was out, remember? AND, the reputation of this organization is that they WILL pay the big bucks ONLY if you TRULY bring the value and only if it shows on paper for your peer group. And that is after taking into consideration of how the "system" capitalizes on your skill set and how it bolsters your individual productivity. WW does not bring the value most posters who are casual fans think he does, especially at this point in his carreer. He isn't getting paid by the PATS for what he has done in the past, it will be for what they think he will be able to do in the future.
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]It's as simple at this gang, if WW wants to remain a Patriot, be a on a team with one of the best QB's ever, and have a legitimate chance at a SB every year, he will compromise his demands, if not, he walks......
    Posted by LittleTimmy31[/QUOTE]
    I'll bet denver'd take him.  
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I'll bet denver'd take him.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    And if he leaves the PATS and wants to continue to rack up numbers likely without getting his ring, that's exactly where he should go. Otherwise, its oblivion for him too. Yes he's great, but Peyton is one shot away from being the biggest mistake ever. Let's not forget that he missed a full year with with multiple neck surgeries. Who throws to WW if he goes there and Peyton goes down? Risk, reward? 
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Captn', OK. All of your points, for the most part, are legit, but still opinion based. Wes Welker had set himself apart from your average "Superstar" palyers by being the consummate PAT. He HAS SEEN HIS BEST DAYS! 31, recon knee surg, and the psychology of missing THE CATCH OF HIS LIFE. Great players have one thing in common....They are CLUTCH!  Wes Welker's psyche has been damaged, along with his body. Now, he takes a hit on his character and ability to remain disciplined through the negotiation process and as a result will be scrutinized by the Organization that much closer. This gives them pause to acknowledge that WEs' greatest value is likely to other teams and what they are willing to give for him. He opened the door for all of this. And now it will be his loss, most of all. I stick to my educated opinion, BYE-BYE WES! And yes, I played at high levels in 2-different countries and I will leave it at that.
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    I'll never understand the mentality of those who think that a player who sacrifices everything on the field for his team must willingingly do the same when its contract time.  

    As has been noted here, Welker was underpaid during his last contract.  Many other players demand renegotiation before the contract is up to be paid to their performance.  Brady demanded his contract be done early.  If I am correct, wilfork did too.  Did you bi*ch about these guys?  

    Welker's contract ran to the end, now its time for him to get paid.  He is more than entitled to negotiate, and is clearly more of a team guy than those I just mentioned who demanded that their contracts be addressed before they expired.  
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I'll never understand the mentality of those who think that a player who sacrifices everything on the field for his team must willingingly do the same when its contract time.   As has been noted here, Welker was underpaid during his last contract.  Many other players demand renegotiation before the contract is up to be paid to their performance.  Brady demanded his contract be done early.  If I am correct, wilfork did too.  Did you bi*ch about these guys?   Welker's contract ran to the end, now its time for him to get paid.  He is more than entitled to negotiate, and is clearly more of a team guy than those I just mentioned who demanded that their contracts be addressed before they expired.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    You are comparing apples to oranges, UD6. WW is not in these guys value category not just for the PATS, but for the entire NFL.
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : With all due respect, if you haven't been an elite athlete, you likely won't grasp the reality and accuracy of the statement. Just watch what happens.......
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    Maybe you are a former "elite" athlete and football player.  Maybe you took too many hits to the head, because your logic is suffering.  

    If welker was as washed up as you say, why would the pats tag him?  If welker was "less welker" this year how'd run away from defenders on that 99 yd td early in the year?  

    Seems to me you just don't care for players negotiating contracts. That's what this is about.
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : YOU ARE REALLY A DOPE! You are proving my point and don't realize it. ANY TRUE FAN would rather have Kevin Millar than Ted Williams if it means you win the league championship!!! And you call me the idiot! Wes Welker IS the PATRIOTS Ted Williams right now! All personal stats, no rings!!! Gimme Millar every year if it means my team won championships, STUPID. Thanks for your help. Now, go PHAWK YASELF! you big GOOF!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    Wow.  For an formerly elite football player who pushes the "team" concept, you certainly are singling welker out for his current status.  IN the most team of games don't you think others were also responsible for the "team" failures?
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : And if he leaves the PATS and wants to continue to rack up numbers likely without getting his ring, that's exactly where he should go. Otherwise, its oblivion for him too. Yes he's great, but Peyton is one shot away from being the biggest mistake ever. Let's not forget that he missed a full year with with multiple neck surgeries. Who throws to WW if he goes there and Peyton goes down? Risk, reward? 
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    Interesting point.  ON the one hand you've said Wes deserves no more money or a longer contract (which is what he wants) because the pats haven't won an SB with him.  Has Mankins?  Yet, then you say that he wont win one if he goes elsewhere.  So I guess I don't understand why the pats would even tag him.  YOu seem to be suggesting that he is the reason the pats haven't won and why no other team will win if they get him.    

    I'll suggest to you that Welker's bears some of the least responsibility for the pats failures.  Further why single out one person when you promote team?  Is it only because he wishes to negotiate?
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : You are comparing apples to oranges, UD6. WW is not in these guys value category not just for the PATS, but for the entire NFL.
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    Isn't it possible that the pats tagged welker because they couldn't get a deal done before free agency?  Its clear with the tag they want him.  I am betting the team and welker come to some other terms before the year begins.
     
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    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": HETCH, but in professional sports, trends and peer comparison is most relevant. Is the massive investment worth it on a player more likely to be in decline, or in a newer, younger model who can give you 5-7 years of upside?Aside from my personal experiences as an athlete who once was paid to play CB, here is a link that should give some clarity to why I say this: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=4007802
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    Rally, 
    You and the article make a good point but it's all based on statistics which are reliable only to a degree. When it comes to making decisions on who must come and go, who might be on the verge of being over the hill the decision has to be made on an individual basis, not on a statistical analysis. 

    Say they trade Welker for draft choices, now we've got two players out of college ready to play and now we've got another crap shoot. The percentages of players out of college making the NFL aren't very high and to replace a top flight reciever like Welker even more remote. 

    I keep Welker and pay him to play until he's ready to retire or be cut. A player doesn't suddenly go from 122 receptions to the dumper. If he does please remind me and I'll eat my words at the end of next season. 

    Cheers, 
    H-Pete 
     

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