BYE-BYE WES!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chloedancer65. Show Chloedancer65's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I agree with all the posts that point out just how effective Wes has been, the word consistent is the one word that comes to mind when I think of Wes and today that's hard to be. He has shown over and over what a versatile player he can be and to me is a key player to the PATS. I love his approach to every game and his sense of humor just makes me love him even more. I hope he stays!!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I remember Reiss writing that the Pats offered 2/16 fully guranteed and were rejected.  He says 3/24 18 guranteed might do it

    then again with some of the money being thrown around, it might not
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mar10. Show mar10's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": TB12 has 3-rings without WW, Zero with him. You tell me.
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    Rally,

    Your Mama's calling you from upstairs.  She needs help with the grocerys.  Run along now and be a good boy and give her a hand.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Why would he accept two years at 11 million, when he can sign the tag that's already been offered him for 9.5 million and become a free agent next year and go after the big contract (likely worth well more than 1.5 million) then?  When the Pats tagged Welker, they limited Welker's options to negotiate with other teams, but they also handcuffed themselves to a deal with a minimum value of one year at 9.5 million.  They really can't get Welker on the cheap anymore.  If they don't want to pay him the 9.5 million this year, their only option is to withdraw the tag and let Welker walk as a free agent.  The Pats get nothing for him if they do this.  The likelihood at this point is that both Welker and the Pats are looking at a three or four year deal that averages around 8 million a year and has at least $12 million guaranteed.  The Pats may actually want a slightly longer deal, not so much because they plan to keep Welker for a long time, but because they may want to spread the salary cap hit out over more time, even if it means a bigger hit if they end up cutting Welker early. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this not knowing what the going rate is.  If the pats kept the franchise tag in place, they could do so again the following year which is a 10% bump or the avg of the highest 5 (whichever is larger).  Doing that would put the Pats at 20 mill over 2 years.  They likely don't want to do that so I would expect a longer term deal to be worked out. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]OK let's play the game Brady does not have one without Troy Brown as a receiver; without Bruschi, McGuiness and Seymour as defenders mankins has no rings Mayo does not have a ring Moss does not have a ring BB has never won a ring without Weis or Crennel Parcells never won a ring without BB This is called a logical disconnect; But as usual with you no answers, no hard facts just bluster and b/s
    Posted by provpats[/QUOTE]

    What does this have to do with your last question as to whether or not TB12 would be happy without WW? Focus provpats! Did you forget what you asked? Nevermind, its not worth hearing your next "response?". 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I could focus if you would answer the question.  Using something about Brady not winning does not mean he is unhappy with WW.

    Please understand what you are answering.  w\do you feel Brady would be upset if WW left, based upon your connections with the patriots?  Yes or No?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]I could focus if you would answer the question.  Using something about Brady not winning does not mean he is unhappy with WW. Please understand what you are answering.  w\do you feel Brady would be upset if WW left, based upon your connections with the patriots?  Yes or No?
    Posted by provpats[/QUOTE]

    Because Tom has developed a close personal bond with WW, he would of course be disappointed that his friend is no longer with the team. BUT, TB12 is a consummate professional and has proven that he knows his place in the business of the NE Patriots. He focuses on execution and leaves ALL personnel decisions to those who make their money at making those decisions. He understands that the reason that his team is so successful and constantly relevant, is because they exude organizational discipline. He does what BB tells him to do, and that is "DO YOUR JOB!"  In other words, Tom would not question the actions of those who make those decisions and  have proven themselves to do it well since he's been with them. It wouldn't affect his performance or his attitude. Plug and play via the "system". Who is next in the star making machine?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Total B/S

    An ELITE competitor like TB does not simply accept things; he has significant input into everything (Just watch a football life for that interaction with BB and TB).  he would make his feelings known from both a personal and football standpoint around the potential loss of his most productive receiver ever.

    Do you think they went out and got Moss and welker in 2007 because BB loves offense?  as I remember Tom renegotiated so they had the cap room to bring Moss here.  They did that without Tom's OK?

    You being the ELITE athlete (although far below Tom's level) should understand that they make thier likes and dislikes known.  In the end you do what you have to do, but you are full of it if you say Tom has no input on the professional side of things
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]Total B/S An ELITE competitor like TB does not simply accept things; he has significant input into everything (Just watch a football life for that interaction with BB and TB).  he would make his feelings known from both a personal and football standpoint around the potential loss of his most productive receiver ever. Do you think they went out and got Moss and welker in 2007 because BB loves offense?  as I remember Tom renegotiated so they had the cap room to bring Moss here.  They did that without Tom's OK? You being the ELITE athlete (although far below Tom's level) should understand that they make thier likes and dislikes known.  In the end you do what you have to do, but you are full of it if you say Tom has no input on the professional side of things
    Posted by provpats[/QUOTE]

    PP, I did not say that they wouldn't ask Tom his opinion. And that wasn't your question, either. I agree with you that they do confer with Tom on acquisitions and subtractions. You asked if Tom would be upset if they let WW go. I said, "no". Disappointment is not the same as anger, as I think you are implying that he would be angry. Tom's opinion is respected, but is not the final lithmus in the decision making process. Tom gives his opinion, and regardless of what the final decision is, he falls in line and DOES HIS JOB WELL. He isn't a spoiled brat like other QBs. He's a blue collar type of player. One of the hardest working guys out there and respects that others work hard at their jobs too. He was not a first rounder. He grew up as a hard worker and made his name for being a PROS PRO, and for not acting like a prima donna, even after he could. You are speculating how he would feel. I am telling you how he would act based on the evidence of his carreer and how he was raised up from N. Cal., Michigan, and now under BB's regime.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I think PatsFanSince1966 is back out of the lab and off his meds again...

    I was thinking the same thing. Apparently the "funding" still has dried up for Maureen.  I was noticing the caps, the bold, the big font and the personal insults.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    I actually asked if he would be unhappy but whatever.

    You call my perception specualtion while yours is called evidence just based upon his career and upbringing.  You have no hard fats to support your speculation either just a perception
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Because Tom has developed a close personal bond with WW, he would of course be disappointed that his friend is no longer with the team. BUT, TB12 is a consummate professional and has proven that he knows his place in the business of the NE Patriots. He focuses on execution and leaves ALL personnel decisions to those who make their money at making those decisions. He understands that the reason that his team is so successful and constantly relevant, is because they exude organizational discipline. He does what BB tells him to do, and that is "DO YOUR JOB!"  In other words, Tom would not question the actions of those who make those decisions and  have proven themselves to do it well since he's been with them. It wouldn't affect his performance or his attitude. Plug and play via the "system". Who is next in the star making machine?
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]
    Here's your mistake, imo.  As it currently stands, Brady holds the cards to the patriots success fully on his shoulders.  This was not nearly the case when the Patriots won their superbowls.  The team just doesn't have the defense it used to.  Further, Brady is now a star.  Like it or not, both he and the org have expectations for his production well beyond what he did when the pats won those superbowls. 

    When a QB finds a "special" connection with a receiver, that receiver becomes invaluable to the success of the QB and vice versa.  This is not to say that the connection can't be made with other receivers.  Brady has made that connection with Gronkowski, and had it with Moss and Branch previously.  That said, he didn't make that connection with a number of other receivers who were either highly drafted and/or well accomplished.  The connection is important to that success.  Removing Welker from the team will the hurt offensive chemistry, I believe.  Certainly its possible for most of that chemistry to be found elsewhere, but it won't be found entirely, especially with new CBA rules about offseason team activities.  Further, Brady doesn't spend as much time with the team in the offseason.  The work he's done in California has been shown to have mostly been done with who? - welker.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : Here's your mistake, imo.  As it currently stands, Brady holds the cards to the patriots success fully on his shoulders.  This was not nearly the case when the Patriots won their superbowls.  The team just doesn't have the defense it used to.  Further, Brady is now a star.  Like it or not, both he and the org have expectations for his production well beyond what he did when the pats won those superbowls.  When a QB finds a "special" connection with a receiver, that receiver becomes invaluable to the success of the QB and vice versa.  This is not to say that the connection can't be made with other receivers.  Brady has made that connection with Gronkowski, and had it with Moss and Branch previously.  That said, he didn't make that connection with a number of other receivers who were either highly drafted and/or well accomplished.  The connection is important to that success.  Removing Welker from the team will the hurt offensive chemistry, I believe.  Certainly its possible for most of that chemistry to be found elsewhere, but it won't be found entirely, especially with new CBA rules about offseason team activities.  Further, Brady doesn't spend as much time with the team in the offseason.  The work he's done in California has been shown to have mostly been done with who? - welker.   Posted by UD6[/QUOTE] Well this thread is played out! And you sound like you are wanna continue to obsess. Sorry, but I'm breaking up with you, UD6! I did more than my share by "provoking" 180+ posts here, and thats past my obligtion to BDC. WW'S FUTURE IS STILL IN QUESTION. Funny how that works with all of this BS. He needs to go because he is getting older and wants too much money for what he WILL do moving forward, not for what he has done in the past, and because he dropped the game winning ball in the wrong game. And "Why?" most of all..... Because I say so! Yup, just because I say so and there isn't anything you can say or do here to change my mind. I have been there. You dream about being there, right here....BYE-BYE WES, and the rest of you who live here. Have a great life! Sincerely, Me.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kildog. Show kildog's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    You guys!  Cool off.  Welker stays - gets 9 mil plus this season.  Has a banner year and goes on the open market next year - will probably wind up staying with the Pats permanently as he will be a year older and won't command as much as he would like on the open market next year because of his age.  Pats will resign him for a reasonable amount and he continues his all HOF career in NE until the day comes when he has to follow Troy Brown (The other TB) into retirement.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I agree with this not knowing what the going rate is.  If the pats kept the franchise tag in place, they could do so again the following year which is a 10% bump or the avg of the highest 5 (whichever is larger).  Doing that would put the Pats at 20 mill over 2 years.  They likely don't want to do that so I would expect a longer term deal to be worked out. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]


    I think it's either the longer term deal or they just play him under the tag for a year.  There really isn't an easy way to work out a two-year deal for much less than $20 million with at least $12 guaranteed. The Pats were smart to see if he'd bite on two years, 16 million all guaranteed . . .  but Welker (and his agent) knew that that deal (while not a terrible one) required Welker to make a trade-off that meant less total money in return for a big short-term guarantee. With the market as it is (and the tag a likelihood) Welker was probably smart to wait and risk a smaller guarantee for the possibility of much bigger payoff in the future.   
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: BYE-BYE WES!": Well this thread is played out! And you sound like you are wanna continue to obsess. Sorry, but I'm breaking up with you, UD6! I did more than my share by "provoking" 180+ posts here, and thats past my obligtion to BDC. WW'S FUTURE IS STILL IN QUESTION. Funny how that works with all of this BS. He needs to go because he is getting older and wants too much money for what he WILL do moving forward, not for what he has done in the past, and because he dropped the game winning ball in the wrong game. And "Why?" most of all..... Because I say so! Yup, just because I say so and there isn't anything you can say or do here to change my mind. I have been there. You dream about being there, right here....BYE-BYE WES, and the rest of you who live here. Have a great life! Sincerely, Me.
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    Thank you for stopping by to enlighten us all with your brilliance. Say hello to Coach Bill, from all you have told us, you to must be very close.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I think it's either the longer term deal or they just play him under the tag for a year.  There really isn't an easy way to work out a two-year deal for much less than $20 million with at least $12 guaranteed. The Pats were smart to see if he'd bite on two years, 16 million all guaranteed . . .  but Welker (and his agent) knew that that deal (while not a terrible one) required Welker to make a trade-off that meant less total money in return for a big short-term guarantee. With the market as it is (and the tag a likelihood) Welker was probably smart to wait and risk a smaller guarantee for the possibility of much bigger payoff in the future.   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    agreed.  This is just SOP as far as NFL negotiations go.  If they do not reach an agreement, and if Welker has another good year, the tag will happen again.  I can't imagine that the pats want to put Welker on a 2nd and final tag, but that is the nature of the game.  The pat chose not to lock him up before they had to tag him, and so they've set their market for him.  Welker will be ready to play when the time calls for it, but I would be surprised if he participates in team activities prior to that. 

    Further, I don't believe this will negatively affect Welker as a part of the team's game plan.  As has been noted the pats are businesslike not only in their business dealings but in their football play.  They know the value of Welker and they will use him to the fullest extent next season. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    One other note for the rest of the posters sans Rally. 

    One of the things that, imo, exposes Rally as nothing more than simple laundry fan and certainly not the elite athlete he claims to be is that those that have played ANY organized team game for any length of time never distill the success or failure of an entire game down to a single play which he has done. 

    He speaks of players doing their job, and unless every player successfully did his job on every play (and everyone knows this didn't happen), then the outcome of the game cannot be considered a single player's responsibility.   

    Rally is less interested in actual discussion and having a valid point than he is in counting the number of posts that the thread has generated. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Hey dude please get lost somewhere-you are the most annoying person on this board-don't the Giants have their own message board-we don't care what you arrogant NY Giants fans have to say-really go away and do us all a favor!!!!  BTW you got lucky with the 2 SB wins! Typical loud mouthed arrogant macho NYorker--please find a NY forum to talk your nonsense on--you are the worst poster by far!!!!!In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : horse**** ...he should be able to remain and not have "compromise" cheapskate organzation tho-who's brainwashed (some) of its fans to think the same way...amazing
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Dude drop the roids-for the love of God please stay off our Pats board-find a NY forum and do us a favor. That cesspool of a city u call home is where u belong--I don't really care what you have to say about the Patriots-and why would U want to come on here and talk Pats-why not get on the Giants site and talk with all your fellow Gmen fans-probably because there isn't one----I swear NYrs are the biggest blo-hards around the country!!In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : seconded
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    BB isn't going to pay a 31 year old slot receiver $10MM+ a year.  Welker will play out this year if he isn't traded once he signs the tag.  Half of his success is owed to Brady and the system as evidenced by the sharp rise in his production once he came here.

    I sometimes think Brady relied on Wes too much, taking the easy 3-4 yard pass play instead of going down the field.  This allowed the defense to collapse on Wes.  With Lloyd and Gronk, this will be harder to do.  There are some good slot types in the draft, we should take one and give them a year to learn behind Wes then let Wes go.  I love him but again, we won't spend that kind of money on him this late in his career.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : I see.  Thanks for the assurance.  So where and who are all these other players that have both the smarts and better physical skills than Welker and exactly how much are they charging for their services?  And lest we forget, these many many people also have to have the nads to run the middle routes and catch the balls he does.  He don't run no diva streaks.   As for his "suicidal" words, I might suggest it is suicidal for the pats not to consider his contract request.  Sure the pats will go on and you root for the laundry, blah blah, blah.  The offense drives the Pats bus and that bus will not run nearly as efficiently without him should they part ways.   As for success outside the organization, don't forget the pats sought Welker, not the other way around.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Hey UD6, HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!! I told you so. I guess only me and BB feel this way about little Wes, eh? But BB is on my side. I guess that makes you wrong! or just plain stupid? Never the less, here ya go, and he's lucky to make to next season as a PAT because of his strategic gaff!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    WW tried to play poker with BB. Did you notice Ebert signed a 4 year deal.

    Wes gets a SB ring this year and heads to Cleveland in 2013 to ride out his career.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BYE-BYE WES! : now me i cant stand a bully or one who uses size to intmidate so all 5 10 175 of me wouldnt use my hands...i'd just grab my louisville slugger and go barry bonds on ur f***ing head or maybe break out the razor sharp 3 inch blade i keep in my glove compartment...see i figure u never know when ur gonna run into a p o s/punk/lunkhead/jock d**k who needs some come-uppence     now you were saying, bad boy?
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]
    Jints. Looked like this guy belonged in the combines. Some roided want to be. Don't think he'd looked too good after you carving him up like a Turkey Day bird. All I have to say is, 'only thing I like better than a good bj is a good street fight' where I grew. Maybe the Canseco Slugger is all you'd really need anyway.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: BYE-BYE WES!

    Never seen a player who has given his all to the team while catching 464 balls in 5 seasons get so much flak from the fans for trying to get a decent contract....People suggesting that Edelman or this Ebert guy could remotely replace Welker are loony. Ooooo Ebert signed a four year deal, clearly he's going to replace the best star receiver in football, duh. Would his production be as good on other teams?  No, but Jerry Rice's production wouldn't be as good without Joe, Marvin Harrison's production wouldn't be as good without Peyton.  Tom Brady's production wouldn't be as good without BB.  What a stupid and shortsighted argument, it insults how good a player Welker is.  Maybe he is gone after this season, heck maybe it's the prudent move for the team, but it's pathetic to see how some people are reacting to this.  He's earned every single penny that comes his way, whether it be this year or next.  I doubt people on this board would be so altruistic if they were in his shoes...
     
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