Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    Football would be the easiest game to fix, a game can literally be turned on a pass interfernce call...all it takes it is one ref to do so.... 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    People can be bought (like the NBA Ref.).  So yes the odds say there are probably a few NFL Ref's on the take. But to say the Sport is fixed is ridiculous and ignorant.
    Posted by K-max


    Why? How much stuff in life can you say isn't fixed to someone's benefit? The stock market is the first thing that comes to mind.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    Football would be the easiest game to fix, a game can literally be turned on a pass interfernce call...all it takes it is one ref to do so.... 
    Posted by ccsjl


    As K implied, I guess you can't rule out that there have never been or currently are individual refs on the take, but it is nearly impossible for the sport itself is fixed.  Let's assume for argument sake that there are a few officials on the take.  Since each official (referee, Umpire, Head Linesman, Line Judge, Field Judge, Side Judge, Back Judge) is responsible for certain parts of the field and game, it would take bribing one or more of the field, side, or back judges to influence pass interference calls.  Even then, you would just have to hope that a key play was made in the area of the bribed official and the play would have to be close enough to call.  It's not like he could call PI if the defender wasn't even close to him.  Furthermore, the officials are graded each week and EVERY call they make is reviewed.  Any official making consistently poor calls and influencing games would be outed quick.  So basically, a single corrupt official would have a difficult time influencing the outcome of games in a consistent manner without being fired in short order.  He would also require a lot of luck.  He needs close call key plays to occur in his area of responsibility.  I don't think even Vegas would like those odds.

    The bridge to go from an isolated official to the sport itself being fixes is huge.  You now need several officials in each game in order to have a reasonable chance of influencing the outcome with a degree of certainty.  You need players on the take to give the officials something debatable to call.  You can't flag Moss for offensive PI if he wasn't even close to a defender or in play.  So now you require several officials and players in each game.  Then you require league officials because they will have to overlook the bad calls being made.  And then you have to add the players union and the owners and the list goes on.  After all, Kraft loses money (marketing) if the league fixes a game and send Irsay's Colts to the SB instead.  Kraft would have to receive compensation as well.  

    To make a long story short, you can't rule out an isolated official who might be able to occasionally influence a game here and there, but the logistics of doing this at the league level are basically impossible to pull off without getting caught.  Even the isolated official could only influence the game, not determine its outcome.




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed? : As K implied, I guess you can't rule out that there have never been or currently are individual refs on the take, but it is nearly impossible for the sport itself is fixed.  Let's assume for argument sake that there are a few officials on the take.  Since each official (referee, Umpire, Head Linesman, Line Judge, Field Judge, Side Judge, Back Judge) is responsible for certain parts of the field and game, it would take bribing one or more of the field, side, or back judges to influence pass interference calls.  Even then, you would just have to hope that a key play was made in the area of the bribed official and the play would have to be close enough to call.  It's not like he could call PI if the defender wasn't even close to him.  Furthermore, the officials are graded each week and EVERY call they make is reviewed.  Any official making consistently poor calls and influencing games would be outed quick.  So basically, a single corrupt official would have a difficult time influencing the outcome of games in a consistent manner without being fired in short order.  He would also require a lot of luck.  He needs close call key plays to occur in his area of responsibility.  I don't think even Vegas would like those odds. The bridge to go from an isolated official to the sport itself being fixes is huge.  You now need several officials in each game in order to have a reasonable chance of influencing the outcome with a degree of certainty.  You need players on the take to give the officials something debatable to call.  You can't flag Moss for offensive PI if he wasn't even close to a defender or in play.  So now you require several officials and players in each game.  Then you require league officials because they will have to overlook the bad calls being made.  And then you have to add the players union and the owners and the list goes on.  After all, Kraft loses money (marketing) if the league fixes a game and send Irsay's Colts to the SB instead.  Kraft would have to receive compensation as well.   To make a long story short, you can't rule out an isolated official who might be able to occasionally influence a game here and there, but the logistics of doing this at the league level are basically impossible to pull off without getting caught.  Even the isolated official could only influence the game, not determine its outcome.
    Posted by carawaydj


    cardaway, its a waste of oxygen to argue logic and facts to a self-righteous nutcase.

    This thread could go on forever. Discussing this isssue is like debating who killed JFK.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from noncallcity. Show noncallcity's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    ***Warning: semi-conspiracy ideas***

    The NFL influenced the Patriots via "Spygate," not just officials. 

    Some of you want proof of pro football being fixed. It's "professional" for a reason. You do what you're told or you're weeded out early. Yes, you have to make plays, but officials (clocks, too) can deny the opportunity or take a team out of position to make plays. Take the ball out of their hands.

    How about the Shakespearean way? Would you put a couple of drops of something in a players food/drink if it were worth your while? Well, somebody would. Can individuals be influenced to hurt a player illegally? Business deals, maybe drafts are influenced, information sources compromised. Surreptitiously being given signals or decoding communication frequencies. Tapping into phone lines. Piped in sound, environmental conditions. Lots of ways. Yeah, they have checks against this stuff like the government's checks and balances.

    Who among the Pats fans here were not fuming at the calls/noncalls in the Giants Superbowl? Our O-line was juiced up, the play-calling was the worst I've seen from the Pats, they made no adjustments and it still took several key calls to create a miraculous finish. Without the calls, we win handily despite doing everything to lose. 

    I also agree Moss did not try for a bomb because he knew he'd draw a penalty... or that he wouldn't and muss things up. There was a great picture of this in the Globe: they were all over him, not turned playing the ball and he didn't know enough to raise his arms into theirs? He wouldn't give up in the Superbowl, I'm sorry, and lots of the coaches and players looked suspiciously resigned, too. 

    You think the league wanted a Pats win? I could feel that we had to lose that game because so many people hated the Pats AND they squeeked by at 16-0. I can't believe any one has not watched a game and thought, "somebody wants this team to win?" What the NFL and it's owners want does influence the game on the field...by definition.

    The NFL makes money using players, but they are basically fodder. The media, merchandising and the like are at the owner's behest, not individuals. Is there room for influence there? Quit the NFL over morals...I don't think so.

    What business is transparent? Who tells you how they run their business? Nobody. Most workers don't know what's really going on and those who know don't talk. 

    Maybe a handful of vested, vulnerable individuals move the chess pieces. No need for a handshake any more to do business. Example: college football has no money involved (right?)...it's amateur...a technicality that was used to torture and humiliate one of the world's greatest athletes, the Father of the NFL, Jim Thorpe.

    Everything we know today was once thought heresy.

    Sorry, that's a bit long.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking99. Show Harleyroadking99's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

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    People can be bought (like the NBA Ref.).  So yes the odds say there are probably a few NFL Ref's on the take. But to say the Sport is fixed is ridiculous and ignorant.
    Posted by K-max

    K-max do you condone rape and home invasion?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from passedball. Show passedball's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    My take on this is that it's not rigged, but that the league does favor some teams. If it's a tight game, the refs can give the nod quite easily to those favored teams. That's the twelfth man on the field. If it's a blowout you wont see questionable calls because it would be way too obvious. Three of the last four SB's were close & there were sketchy calls, starting with the SeaHawk's being screwed. It stopped being a game played by athletes, now a business played by entertainers, a long time ago.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    Football would be the easiest game to fix, a game can literally be turned on a pass interfernce call...all it takes it is one ref to do so.... 
    Posted by ccsjl

    Not quite.

    You can look at one call as the turning point in a game once it is over. i will grant you that. But when you make the call, you still don't even know if the team you gave the call to will make the best of that "gift". The very next play could be a fumble and return for a TD by the defense. You would likely have to give several calls over the course of a game to have a definite foreseeable impact.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    ~I like to yell at the refs in the WWF When a wrestler in the ring's manager or ring-girl distracts said referee AFTER and at the exact moment the other Wrestler pins the first wrestler after illegally hitting him with a folding chair, or an oddly very hard and conveniently available object near ringside...  That's when I swear, a small part of me believes that these Wrestling Refs can in no way, be THAT dumb, or distracted that easily, AND that maybe, just maybe some of these wrestling events are fixed or in some manner, predetermined...BUT THAT'S When I take an extra long sip on one of my 15 pack of Stroh's Light, and boy oh boy, Hollywood Hulk Hogan takes center stage again and I'm with him All The Way 'til the end! 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from funforme8. Show funforme8's posts

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    In Response to Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed? : lol no one really values a womens opinion when it comes to sports.
    Posted by Patsfan24-7




    That's a bit unintelligent.

    But I do have to say, it is really time to let go of that Super Bowl. Giants fans as well. Two years ago. Move on.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fredwester. Show fredwester's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    I definitely think some NFL games are fixed, and it's all driven by the amount of money wagered on a game. Anyone from the ownership of a large Vegas sportsbook, to a politician for the state of Nevada, to an NFL franchise owner, to the NFL commissioner himself (why are injury reports provided, with particular rules and repercussions for breaking those rules?), to wealthy individual gamblers, have motive and an interest in the outcome of any given game. Thank about it. It is very easy for any of us to get the name, address, profession, etc. of any NFL referee. I believe the amount wagered on an NFL game is directly proportional to the likelihood of a fix, perpetrated by any of the wealthy parties mentioned above "getting to" one or more referees before the game. Much is made of the NFL grading the referees after each game, as if that is proof games are not fixed by the refs. Well, that just proves the NFL office is complicit. Others suggest players and coaches may be involved, but that's unlikely. Too many undisciplined mouths there. You can totally control the game just with the refs. I offer up the 3 games I am most confident were fixed:
    (1) 1976 - Pats Raiders playoff game. Pats killed them in the regular season, outplayed them in this game, and a combination of calls (Sugar roughing the passer) and non-calls (Villapiano beating up Russ Francis) led to Raiders "winning"
    (2) Year - I dont recall, but it was when the 49er dynasty was dying, Young or Garcia was the QB, and the Colts under Peyton Manning were arriving. The gamblers didn't realize how far SF had fallen and how far Indy had progressed, so call after call went against Indy as the Colts were constantly held back from scoring. The Colts completely outplayed SF.
    (3) Steelers - Seahawks Super Bowl - how about that 3rd Qtr call when Hasselback completed that deep pass well into Steeler territory? Up to that point, I was 99% sure the game was fixed, as the refs were clearly compensating for the fact that Roethlisburger SUCKED that day. As soon as Hasselback completed that pass, I said to my wife, "they're going to call this back, and if they do, I am turning off the TV  - this game is fixed." Immediately thereafter, they announced a flag had been thrown - holding on the offensive line, bring the ball back. So I turned off the TV. What a joke that Super Bowl was.

    As far as the Pats-Giants Super Bowl, I always thought it was the game plan/coaching (overconfidence in the passing game, for example no 3rd TE dressed) and poor offensive line play that doomed the Pats. I comforted myself by saying the blatant Giants offensive holding (on several players) that was not called on the helmet-catch play was surely offset by Pats holding that was not called at other times in the game (though I hadn't seen anything this obvious). But, when we have another "poster" sharing Matt Light's comments...perhaps I am wrong and that one was fixed as well...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed? : I definitely think some NFL games are fixed, and it's all driven by the amount of money wagered on a game. Anyone from the ownership of a large Vegas sportsbook, to a politician for the state of Nevada, to an NFL franchise owner, to the NFL commissioner himself (why are injury reports provided, with particular rules and repercussions for breaking those rules?), to wealthy individual gamblers, have motive and an interest in the outcome of any given game. Thank about it. It is very easy for any of us to get the name, address, profession, etc. of any NFL referee. I believe the amount wagered on an NFL game is directly proportional to the likelihood of a fix, perpetrated by any of the wealthy parties mentioned above "getting to" one or more referees before the game. Much is made of the NFL grading the referees after each game, as if that is proof games are not fixed by the refs. Well, that just proves the NFL office is complicit. Others suggest players and coaches may be involved, but that's unlikely. Too many undisciplined mouths there. You can totally control the game just with the refs. I offer up the 3 games I am most confident were fixed: (1) 1976 - Pats Raiders playoff game. Pats killed them in the regular season, outplayed them in this game, and a combination of calls (Sugar roughing the passer) and non-calls (Villapiano beating up Russ Francis) led to Raiders "winning" (2) Year - I dont recall, but it was when the 49er dynasty was dying, Young or Garcia was the QB, and the Colts under Peyton Manning were arriving. The gamblers didn't realize how far SF had fallen and how far Indy had progressed, so call after call went against Indy as the Colts were constantly held back from scoring. The Colts completely outplayed SF. (3) Steelers - Seahawks Super Bowl - how about that 3rd Qtr call when Hasselback completed that deep pass well into Steeler territory? Up to that point, I was 99% sure the game was fixed, as the refs were clearly compensating for the fact that Roethlisburger SUCKED that day. As soon as Hasselback completed that pass, I said to my wife, "they're going to call this back, and if they do, I am turning off the TV  - this game is fixed." Immediately thereafter, they announced a flag had been thrown - holding on the offensive line, bring the ball back. So I turned off the TV. What a joke that Super Bowl was. As far as the Pats-Giants Super Bowl, I always thought it was the game plan/coaching (overconfidence in the passing game, for example no 3rd TE dressed) and poor offensive line play that doomed the Pats. I comforted myself by saying the blatant Giants offensive holding (on several players) that was not called on the helmet-catch play was surely offset by Pats holding that was not called at other times in the game (though I hadn't seen anything this obvious). But, when we have another "poster" sharing Matt Light's comments...perhaps I am wrong and that one was fixed as well...
    Posted by fredwester

    I am not a gambler, but I do know that the spread is based on getting the same amount of money to be bet on each side. The house doesn't care who wins or loses, they make their profit from the losers paying an extra 10% or so on their bets. So if the house has set up the spread correctly (which they will adjust if they see a lot of more action on one side or the other) they will have, for example, $100,000 on the favorite and $100,000 on the underdog. Regardless of who wins, they will payout $100,000 to the winning bettors and take in $100,000 plus an extra $10,000 from the losers. 

    In light of how the spread works, I don't understand how one could think the amount wagered or (in the case of the poster who said his friend said that Matt Light said a big spread would mean the Pats lose.) the actual spread would have any bearing over who would win.

    The injury report was put in place theoretically as a deterrent to inside information on gambling.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from passedball. Show passedball's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    Football would be the easiest game to fix, a game can literally be turned on a pass interfernce call...all it takes it is one ref to do so.... 
    Posted by ccsjl


    I'm thinking baseball. The ump can easily mess with balls & strikes. Squeezing the strike zone for one team & expanding it for another. The favored team would still have to hit, but throw a walk or two in there at crucial times...........
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

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    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed? : I am not a gambler, but I do know that the spread is based on getting the same amount of money to be bet on each side. The house doesn't care who wins or loses, they make their profit from the losers paying an extra 10% or so on their bets. So if the house has set up the spread correctly (which they will adjust if they see a lot of more action on one side or the other) they will have, for example, $100,000 on the favorite and $100,000 on the underdog. Regardless of who wins, they will payout $100,000 to the winning bettors and take in $100,000 plus an extra $10,000 from the losers.  In light of how the spread works, I don't understand how one could think the amount wagered or (in the case of the poster who said his friend said that Matt Light said a big spread would mean the Pats lose.) the actual spread would have any bearing over who would win. The injury report was put in place theoretically as a deterrent to inside information on gambling.
    Posted by EnochRoot


    EnochRoot nails it.  Vegas could careless about who wins.  To them it's all about the VIG.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed? : I am not a gambler, but I do know that the spread is based on getting the same amount of money to be bet on each side. The house doesn't care who wins or loses, they make their profit from the losers paying an extra 10% or so on their bets. So if the house has set up the spread correctly (which they will adjust if they see a lot of more action on one side or the other) they will have, for example, $100,000 on the favorite and $100,000 on the underdog. Regardless of who wins, they will payout $100,000 to the winning bettors and take in $100,000 plus an extra $10,000 from the losers.  In light of how the spread works, I don't understand how one could think the amount wagered or (in the case of the poster who said his friend said that Matt Light said a big spread would mean the Pats lose.) the actual spread would have any bearing over who would win. The injury report was put in place theoretically as a deterrent to inside information on gambling.
    Posted by EnochRoot

    Nice explanation Enoch.  I'm not a gambler either, but I believe you are spot on.  That is exactly why they adjust the spread.  They need to equalize the bets as much as possible.  This is an inconvenient truth to those who want to believe the NFL is fixed and a lizard-like species controls mankind.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ImbDauwg. Show ImbDauwg's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    sounds like somebody lost a bet!

    although i do think there's more shenanigans that go on than we know, the fact still is that you can't "fix" David Tyree's catch.

    you can't "fix" the 1-inch difference between winning and losing.

    no, you can't.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
    In Response to Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed? : Nice explanation Enoch.  I'm not a gambler either, but I believe you are spot on.  That is exactly why they adjust the spread.  They need to equalize the bets as much as possible.  This is an inconvenient truth to those who want to believe the NFL is fixed and a lizard-like species controls mankind.
    Posted by carawaydj

    "Slees-a-stacka! Slees-a-stacka!".

    -Chaka

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?

    In Response to Can anyone say Pro Sports really isnt fixed?:
        When the Patriots lost the last Superbowl. I will tell anyone here, go back to the Randy Moss touchdown with 3 minutes left, when he caught the Ball in the Endzone, he didnt celebrate, didnt dance, didnt even smile, in fact when you see him on camera he looked like he had just lost the game, I turned to my husband and said they are not going to win this game, and sure enough the Giants did. You are not going to like this, none of you will, but ALL PRO SPORTS IS FIXED, do you really think its just Wrestling? Gee one Basketball Ref got caught, yeah like there is only one! PLEASE, do you really think a group of BILLIONAIRES are going to gamble their hard Squeezed out of you the fans money and just take a chance with it? REALLY? Oh I know the haters will say Im crazy there is no way it can be done, All I say back is look around you, Just one ref huh? LMAO Gee Boxing isnt fixed at all, now take a look at MMA, take a look at Oh never mind you boys wont beleive it anyway. The Owners have you guys so fooled and spending yoru money that your house would burn down and you not even notice lol.
    Posted by Wendylee03


    Obviously somebody is paying people to disagree with you on this post.  Probably Bill Polian and Roger Goodell.
     
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