Can Belichick build an elite defense?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    I was thinking about this yesterday.  Some teams tend to have good defenses for long periods of time, even when they arent winning alot of games.  Just look at the Steelers, Ravens, Bears. Somehow they always have these dominant defensive  players.  The Ravens have had a great defense for a whole decade now.  The Steelers always manage to find these vicious linebackers who intimidate the opposition.

    What has gone wrong for Belichick and the Patriots?  Our defense was ranked 25th in the league and last on 3rd down coversion. That is simply awful , no matter how you look at it. They made a few plays because the offense was always putting up 30+ points.  Almost every team threw the ball well against us, and thats with the Patriots having the best  offense in the NFL. 

    We do not have any intimidators and vicious hitters on this defense.  Pats defense made every QB look like a pro-bowl.  The QB rating of the opposing QB's was almost a 100.  It is simply mind boggling. I understand that the defense is young and all that. Maybe Belichick needs to bring in a few veterans.  Our pass rush is non existant,  our linebackers do not make any impact plays.   I think Jerode Mayo is completely overrated.  He can lead the league in tackles all he can but he never makes any impact plays. He doesn't pressure the QB, and doesn't play well against the pass.  He was responsible for that 65 yard catch by Cotchery after we scored a TD. That killed our momentum completely.  When it came time to make a big tackle, he couldnt bring Shaun Green down.

    Perhaps Belichick waited too long to rebuild the defense. He shouldve done it after the 2005 season.  He waited until all the veterans left and retired,  the void became apparent. Now the newcomers are getting killed on the field and nobody is there to mentor them in game situations. 

    It is surprising that a great defensive mind like Belichick couldnt build a culture of dominant defensive play,  like we see in  Pittsburgh and Baltimore. 


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    He had a great set of defenses from 01-06 but then after the O couldn't get it done in 06 they went all on O. Combine that with players like Bruschi, Harrison, Johnson, Vrable, Willie, Samuel all leaving or retiring in a very short period and a couple bad drafts in a row all of a sudden the D falls apart. It takes time to rebuild a D from scratch give him some time. TBH with Warren and Bodden back and the way the D was playing this year if you get a couple blue chip players to get pressure on QB's (1 OLB, 1 DE) I think this team will be a top 10 D again for some time to come.

    BTW those teams you mentioned they reload on D in the draft every year. That's one of the reasons they always seem to be in the running for playoffs but sometimes it means they also have no O which can also hurt them. Being balanced is a very hard thing to do but that's what champions are made from
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    In Response to Can Belichick build an elite defense?:

    [QUOTE]

    Perhaps Belichick waited too long to rebuild the defense. He shouldve done it after the 2005 season. He waited until all the veterans left and retired, the void became apparent. Now the newcomers are getting killed on the field and nobody is there to mentor them in game situations.  


    It is surprising that a great defensive mind like Belichick couldnt build a culture of dominant defensive play, like we see in Pittsburgh and Baltimore.
     
    Posted by Spetznaz24[/QUOTE]

    Bang on. Our defense is soft compared to the teams playing in superbowl this year. But you are being overly negative too I think we have a very good secondary with McCorty and Bodden and Chung and Meriweather (not consistent).

    Two more draft and we are set for a while

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from itsjustagame1. Show itsjustagame1's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    I think he's getting us back there. I think we'll find out the answer to your question in the next 2-3 years.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    The answer is YES!!! With all the rookies on this team, I think they exceeded all expectations of (true) Pats fans. People are talking about BB ego, I think he has more patience than we have and can't wait to see what's in store for 2011. As bad as they were this yr. you can bet your boots, fat boy is nervous.

    14-2 aint bad for a rebuilding year!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Can Belichick build an elite defense? : Bang on. Our defense is soft compared to the teams playing in superbowl this year. But you are being overly negative too I think we have a very good secondary with McCorty and Bodden and Chung and Meriweather (not consistent). Two more draft and we are set for a while
    Posted by akius[/QUOTE]

    I agree that the McCourty and Bodden should make a very good secondary.  Wilfork is a stud too. The rest are simply not up to task.   Meriweather is completely overrated. I dont know how he makes the pro-bowl every year.  To have Meriweathers name mentioned with Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu at the pro-bowl is an insult to those two phenomenal players.

    What about our linebackers and defensive ends?  Look at the LB's and DE's on the two teams in the SB.  It is frightening to think how  bad our players are compared to those in Pitt and GB.    We can draft rookies all we want, but the chances are that they will not be able to contribute their first year.  We had a chance at Clay Mathews and missed it.  How good would he look in a NE uniform right now?    Belichick needs to bring in a veteran linebacker or DE to make some plays and mentor the young players.

    At the pace that we are going,  Brady will retire by the time we have a decent  defense.  Belichick needs to stop trading back and getting "good value".   Clay Mathews would have brought the swagger that this defense desperately needs!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?:
    [QUOTE]I think he's getting us back there. I think we'll find out the answer to your question in the next 2-3 years.
    Posted by itsjustagame1[/QUOTE]


    The thing is that we were 25th in league overall and dead last in opponents 3rd down conversion. Opposing QB's posted higher qb ratings against our defense than they did against any other team in league.

    If they were that bad in 2010, how much can they improve in 2011?   A top 10 defense might be 3-4 years away, at best.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense? : I agree that the McCourty and Bodden should make a very good secondary.  Wilfork is a stud too. The rest are simply not up to task.   Meriweather is completely overrated. I dont know how he makes the pro-bowl every year.  To have Meriweathers name mentioned with Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu at the pro-bowl is an insult to those two phenomenal players. What about our linebackers and defensive ends?  Look at the LB's and DE's on the two teams in the SB.  It is frightening to think how  bad our players are compared to those in Pitt and GB.    We can draft rookies all we want, but the chances are that they will not be able to contribute their first year.  We had a chance at Clay Mathews and missed it.  How good would he look in a NE uniform right now?    Belichick needs to bring in a veteran linebacker or DE to make some plays and mentor the young players. At the pace that we are going,  Brady will retire by the time we have a decent  defense.  Belichick needs to stop trading back and getting "good value".   Clay Mathews would have brought the swagger that this defense desperately needs!

    Posted by Spetznaz24[/QUOTE]

    Clay Matthews was the one that got away I said it before the season began.
    From what I'm seeing apart from this year. I think in the future the biggest thing will be takeaway having people in the secondary that can catch the ball and gain yardage that will be the single most important factor which sets a good defense from an elite defense.

    Til tom brady is there patriots like colts will be offense driven team weather you like it or not.
    We have a good enough defense right now minus pass rush, BB has to make a decision weather his team needs a pass rush or not, he does it differently.
     

    I think we just need to be a lil patient. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from itsjustagame1. Show itsjustagame1's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense? : The thing is that we were 25th in league overall and dead last in opponents 3rd down conversion. Opposing QB's posted higher qb ratings against our defense than they did against any other team in league. If they were that bad in 2010, how much can they improve in 2011?   A top 10 defense might be 3-4 years away, at best.
    Posted by Spetznaz24[/QUOTE]

    Yep. But look at our red zone D from 2009 vs. 2010. An improvement. It takes time....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense? : The thing is that we were 25th in league overall and dead last in opponents 3rd down conversion. Opposing QB's posted higher qb ratings against our defense than they did against any other team in league. If they were that bad in 2010, how much can they improve in 2011?   A top 10 defense might be 3-4 years away, at best.
    Posted by Spetznaz24[/QUOTE]

    I think you are being overly critical of the D right now. Just know that they had 5 rookies starting at one point or another.

    Here's a list of reasons why I think the D suffered so much but also reasons why it could become a top 10 team next year:

    DL - Problem: Lets face it Wilfork was the only stable point here. All year players were getting hurt and there was no stability on the line at all. For a majority of the time we had backup and rotational players playing significant time on the line. This greatly affected our ability to get to the QB.

    Reason for hope: Ty Warren is coming back and a majority of those hurt will be getting better. I can't think of another team who had such devastating injuries on the DL. But with Warren back and the possibility of a stud DE at #17 the line can become extremely deep with those situational players becoming just that again.

    LB - Problem: We again had players who would be considered backups starting alongside rookies. Cunningham and Spikes were rookies and made rookie mistakes while TBC, Nin, and Guyton all were starters at one point or another. Add to that the DL not taking up blockers preventing the OLB's from getting to the QB

    Reason for hope: Cunningham and Spikes will have a full season under their belt. Guyton and Nin played good in their roles but in a rotational setting their games can become that much better. Add a solid pass rushing OLB (which is a area of great depth in the draft) and a improved DL and the pass rush should greatly improve.

    CB - Problem: Our #1 CB was hurt at the beginning of the season. Again we had 2 rookies starting, one of which was a UDFA.

    Reason for hope: McCourty payed like a RoTY add to the Bodden coming back and the starting CB's will be improved. Arrington and Butler also look like players that have improved over the year and should be better nickel backs then most teams have. The tickle down affect comes into play as the DL improves the pass rush improves and the secondary improves

    The biggest thing is the pressure on the QB. The reason our 3rd down D stinks is because the opposing QB had all day to throw. It's actually impressive how long our secondary could hold the receivers before they finally broke down. If the pass rush gets improved which starts with Warren coming back and the rookie LB's gaining experience and finishes with adding a couple blue chip players our D will easily become a top 10 D if not next year then in 12' (barring major injuries).
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Quite honestly we are close to having an elite defense. Throw in Ty Warren and Bodden and we have two gaping holes filled with pro bowl caliber players. Add this years 6 picks in the 1st two rounds and we have a defense filled with a few key veterans and loaded with top round fast athletic talent.

    Lat in 3rd downs but 1st in turn overs!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    The problem is the pass rush when it comes to passing defense. BB just never replaced McGinest after he cut him. We get a new Willie and we'll be knocking the QB all over the place. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Sure, see what happens next year with those first 6 draft picks 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Did you watch our defense in the second half of the year?  Pretty good.  REALLY good.  By the time we hit the playoffs, maybe just too many DEs hurt.  I think we HAVE an elite defense, Bodden returns, Ty Warren, etc.  Add a Dback, DE, OLB from the draft.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    The Pats D needs a couple smash mouth defensive players who border being "dirty" players.  Look at the all aforementioned teams and their D's..  each of them have one or two defenders who "give" it.  Those defenders set the tone for the defense, like Rodney did.  These types don't come around too often. Once Ray Lewis retires, what is left for the Ravens?  Leaders aren't developed, them come with the comlete package and lead.  Pats have that on offense and now need it again on defense.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Not sure I'd rely on Ty Warren for anything right now except passing his midterm exam. This guy hasn't played in a while or been a standout in a long while, I'd be happy and surprised if he was on the team next year at all. Bodden is another story( in my opinion), this is a guy that was probably our best corner before he got hurt and the pats must of agreed, because they paid him that way.

    I like both Cunningham and Spikes, and think they will help next year. I would honestly consider anything and everything to bring a true 34 defensive end to the team and a pass rushing outside linebacker. If they have to draft 10 outside backers to get it right...do it!! If they have to shell out 100 million on a stud D lineman...do it!! Enough is enough; I'm tired of watching Qb's stand back there all day and teams ppunching us in the face. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Just look at the second half numbers.  LOTS of yards, NOT much of anything else.  That's what keeps scores low, and I don't play fantasy football, so final score is what counts.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_483130. Show user_483130's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    I just made the point in another post that they s/go after a good FA or trade to get a proven OLB now. The draft seems to be a crap shoot at that position.

    This team has too many draft picks and young players as it is...I don't see 6 new rookies chosen w/in the 1st three rounds making this team. You have a boatload players coming off the DL. I don't see a 14-2 turning their roster that much. Might as well trade and pick/sign a FA and add some experience on D.
     
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    In Response to Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?:
    [QUOTE]Not sure I'd rely on Ty Warren for anything right now except passing his midterm exam. This guy hasn't played in a while or been a standout in a long while,
    He hadn't played well because of the hip.  He decided to get that fixed rather than put out another average season.  I don't know why it took this long for this to get done because he's never been the same since the injury.  Sometimes I think the gut it up mentality of the NFL goes a bit too far.  At times it's necessary but this should have been taken care during the off season.

    I'd be happy and surprised if he was on the team next year at all.
    A stupid statement.

    Bodden is another story( in my opinion), this is a guy that was probably our best corner before he got hurt and the pats must of agreed, because they paid him that way.
    Agreed.

    I like both Cunningham and Spikes, and think they will help next year. I would honestly consider anything and everything to bring a true 34 defensive end to the team and a pass rushing outside linebacker.
    This is an issue.  They need another stud at DE and another OLB for sure.  I feel these players are there in the draft this year and can be addressed.

    If they have to draft 10 outside backers to get it right...do it!! If they have to shell out 100 million on a stud D lineman...do it!! Enough is enough; I'm tired of watching Qb's stand back there all day and teams ppunching us in the face. 
    I find some of this silly but most are running out of patience with the pass rush and I must include myself in this.  Again I feel that this can be fix with these years draft.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    We had a chance at Clay Mathews and missed it.  How good would he look in a NE uniform right now?    Belichick needs to bring in a veteran linebacker or DE to make some plays and mentor the young players.
    ==========================
    Maybe Clay Mathews, on the Pats, would be nothing like the force he is on the Packers?  Does he seem like the kind of player who would thrive as one of BB's "Just Do You Job" robots ?   BB the General Manage doesn't want to pay for them, and BB the Coach just wants players to carry-out his plans.  We lack play makers by choice, not accident.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Steelers D gave up more pts last yr than we did this yr.  Same thing in '06

    Ravens in 07 were horrid. 05 they were around where we are now in terms of pts allowed.

    Every team has their hiccup yrs, even the very best.  Im happy with where the d is now and going forward.

    And im glad the pats let samuel go. No way they could afford Samuel, Mankins, Brady, and Wilfork. Game is won and loss in the trenches.  Paying the men upfront is more important.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoctorFootball. Show DoctorFootball's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    This defense is weak at best. Without McCourty doing what he did this year its worse than weak.
    I love all you fans saying how , WOW..we have 6 draft picks this year. Yeah and?
    I guess you fail to remember how Belichick picks right over most of what he needs.
    Gee, I wonder if he will go after more DB's this draft, maybe this time he gets it right?
    Oh I know, I know, blah blah blah Jets fan. See how you not only dont have a clue about Belichick and his lack of picking good players, but about anything in this forum.
    I cant wait to hear all your sad boo hoo crying the day after the draft. 
    It's not too late to jump on the Steelers bandwagon, at least you can cheer for a real team that wins playoff games and a real mans quarterback 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Belichick is a great coach; but this isn't Madden. You can't just shut teams down when you don't have the talent at certain positions and have injuries up the ying-yang.
    Look at the Patriots DL during their Superbowls....Seymour, Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork drafted in the first round in 4 years. Ted Washington signed before Wilfork was drafted. But when Warren and Seymour were in their prime, that was when the defense was elite.
    I think the Patriots found a good emotional guy in Spikes. He seems to play with aggression and emotion, which the Patriots sometimes lack on defense. Mayo is a bit more cerebral, safe play, which I do like, because he's the best tackler we have.

    Spetznazz needs to relax. Nothing will ever be good enough for him. We'll see great improvement from Chung, Spikes, Cunningham, Deaderick, Brace, Pryor, McCourty, Love on defense next year. Not to mention, Mayo will be coming into his prime.
    Meriweather was voted to the Pro Bowl, which is 66% players/coaches. Not a primary fan vote, contrary to popular belief. Physically, I don't know of any more talented players in the league at safety. His speed, strength and ability to hit people is second to few. He just needs to take on some coaching about wrapping up and playing positional football better. If he can do that, he'll be elite. You're right in that he hasn't lived up to expectations of being the next Ed Reed, but you're wrong in the idea that he doesn't contribute to this team. He had some serious expectations coming in.
    Mayo just needs to be more aggressive. It's clear that he's kind of the safety net on defense, and that Spikes is the guy that they want making hits in the backfield and meeting the linemen at the point of attack. Mayo's job is to sit back and make sure the RB doesn't break loose in the secondary. To expect Mayo to catch up to Cotchery, a decent WR, is ridiculous. The Green TD was his fault? How about you watch the safeties get stuck inside and the DE/OLB's leaving a gaping hole off-tackle. Gimme a break.
    If the Patriots can get some PLAYMAKING DE's, not just guys who can neutralize the line, this Patriots defense will have a lot to offer. It would only free up Cunningham to be the biggest surprise next year for the young Patriots.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mkulacz. Show mkulacz's posts

    Re: Can Belichick build an elite defense?

    Its easy to pick on this defense.

    But when a team goes 14-2, Im not sure how much picking you can do. How can they be? Statistics can be deceiving.

    They made some great plays in the playoff loss to the Jets. Made a couple of bad plays too, but every team makes a couple each game.

    Pats lost in the post season because of offensive game plan, and poor ability to adapt to the sitaution by Brady. Since SpyGate, BB hasnt looked good in the playoffs. Without a defense with 5 Hall-Of-Famers, Brady hasnt won a SuperBowl. Im a big Pats fan, but these are difficult things to look past.
     
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