Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DuncanOrange. Show DuncanOrange's posts

    Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    6 games in and we have yet to see any potential.  It's not like defenses are taking him away, they're more focused on Wes Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez.  

    Unless a miracle happens, I don't see Ocho showing up to be a major playmaker.  The whole he didn't have an offseason, doesn't quite work anymore.  Look at rookie WRs around the league that didn't have an offseason yet are putting up solid numbers.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dmcpatsfan. Show dmcpatsfan's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    I said I'd give him till the 1st week after the bye & so I will...however it does not look promising....

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    How much did we actually give up for him though.

    Not much in cap space and not much in terms of draft picks (BB hasn't had much luck with 5th rounders for a while now)

    I wouldn't put him in the same light as AD but I think it's fair to say he's in the same light as Galloway. Someone with huge promise but can't put it together on this team. However, we have Gronk, Hern, Branch, Welker, and all the RB's. That's something we couldn't say when Galloway was on the team so we can afford to give Ocho slack and he won't hurt them if he doesn't perform
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Will-Redd. Show Will-Redd's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?:
    [QUOTE]What rookie WRs are putting up solid numbers at WR? What's Julie Jones done? Catch 20 balls as a #1 and pull a hammy?  I am all for doing what helps the Pats win games, but we saw Branch not targeted in Buffalo, a similar game to oyesterday where NE ignored the run and it allowed Dallas to to tee off on Brady and to combat what the Pats were trying to do on offense. It's not a secrat that #85 looks better, as does any of the WRs or TEs, when we actually keep running the ball. Ocho is like Stallworth, a last option, except I think Ocho is far superior route runner in this offense.  At best he needs to be a Gaffney in November of 2006 if you are being fair. Is Price an upgrade? Maybe. Hard to tell since no one sees practices. Go check Gaffney's numbers that that time.  The only argument is money. So, if the money is the issue and they don't want to wait, so be it. This team has 4 other weapons who are superior players than that of #85 and the mid field throws are more attractive. Frankly, I am a lot more tired of watching Brady in the shotgun bouncing up and down wanting 10 seconds on every snap to thread the needle down the  middle of the field. He barely looks down the flanks much anymore. He just stares down Gronk or Welker in games where teams only have to worry about the pass. How about the Sean Lee INT?  Brady took forever, didn't throw it away and then lobbed a wounded duck into a crowd of 5 Cowboys defenders.   Explain that horrendous decision. What does that have to do with Ochocinco? Brady still looks like he's spoiled with the core group of WRs here and expects a perfect plane to deliver the ball. And the running thing is clearly still an issue for our sputtering offense that apparently thinks it can get away without running it. The only difference between last years's Cleveland game and this one is our D was outstanding, bailing out the offense. Blame starts with O'Brien and Brady for not doing a better job over 4 qtrs as it has every other week fans look to scapegoat #85. If it's not Haynesworth, it's #85.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I was concerned about the lame duck, too.  On replay, his throwing motion was clearly disrupted, which explains the bad pass.  This does support, though, your argument that he was taking way too long to get the ball out.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    No. His 9 catches for 130 in 6 games is very productive. So is his decrease in snaps which are going down because he's been so bad.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    It doesn't matter what we say, we don't see him everyday in practice.  Only BB and O'Brien know how well he is doing. 
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    NO.  We can't.  YOU can, but I think you will be wrong.  We are going to a tight end/slot game, and even Deion Branch isn't getting a bunch of catches.  Ocho is fine for now.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?:
    [QUOTE]No. His 9 catches for 130 in 6 games is very productive. So is his decrease in snaps which are going down because he's been so bad.
    Posted by tompenny[/QUOTE]

    His snaps went down this week because the Pats ran 67 snaps with 2 or 3 tight ends and 2 receivers.  They were also in hurry up for a major portion of the game.  98 times out of 100, BB is going with his 2 most experienced receivers.
    He did blow one, but this was 99% scheme related.
    Price and Slater aren't getting the snaps either and they've been on the team for years.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    As long as Ocho keeps his focus despite his lack of touches he will be fine. We are winning, and one week we WILL need him and as long as he steps up he wil be fine.

    He came here to win not pad his stats....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BelichickDisciple. Show BelichickDisciple's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    He's a goner, imo. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust? : His snaps went down this week because the Pats ran 67 snaps with 2 or 3 tight ends and 2 receivers.  They were also in hurry up for a major portion of the game.  98 times out of 100, BB is going with his 2 most experienced receivers. He did blow one, but this was 99% scheme related. Price and Slater aren't getting the snaps either and they've been on the team for years.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    He's not productive even when he's on the field. That's the reality. I thought he was a can't miss pick up. I've said it earlier. There is no way he can even earn his salary in the regular season at this point. Hopefully he will bank for the Pats in the playoffs.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?:
    [QUOTE]What rookie WRs are putting up solid numbers at WR? What's Julie Jones done? Catch 20 balls as a #1 and pull a hammy?  I am all for doing what helps the Pats win games, but we saw Branch not targeted in Buffalo, a similar game to oyesterday where NE ignored the run and it allowed Dallas to to tee off on Brady and to combat what the Pats were trying to do on offense. It's not a secrat that #85 looks better, as does any of the WRs or TEs, when we actually keep running the ball. Ocho is like Stallworth, a last option, except I think Ocho is far superior route runner in this offense.  At best he needs to be a Gaffney in November of 2006 if you are being fair. Is Price an upgrade? Maybe. Hard to tell since no one sees practices. Go check Gaffney's numbers that that time.  The only argument is money. So, if the money is the issue and they don't want to wait, so be it. This team has 4 other weapons who are superior players than that of #85 and the mid field throws are more attractive. Frankly, I am a lot more tired of watching Brady in the shotgun bouncing up and down wanting 10 seconds on every snap to thread the needle down the  middle of the field. He barely looks down the flanks much anymore. He just stares down Gronk or Welker in games where teams only have to worry about the pass. How about the Sean Lee INT?  Brady took forever, didn't throw it away and then lobbed a wounded duck into a crowd of 5 Cowboys defenders.   Explain that horrendous decision. What does that have to do with Ochocinco? Brady still looks like he's spoiled with the core group of WRs here and expects a perfect plane to deliver the ball. And the running thing is clearly still an issue for our sputtering offense that apparently thinks it can get away without running it. The only difference between last years's Cleveland game and this one is our D was outstanding, bailing out the offense. Blame starts with O'Brien and Brady for not doing a better job over 4 qtrs as it has every other week fans look to scapegoat #85. If it's not Haynesworth, it's #85.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    Sorry King, I've been pulling for this guy to come on and make a difference and it is not happening.  Brady and other players still have to tell him where to line up, this far into the season. Yesterday after one play, Brady was yelling at him, ala Joey Galloway. 

    Ocho is getting paid a lot of money to have no catches in a game.  His contract is guaranteed and his signing bonus was paid to him and is in his pocket.  He needs to catch more balls, or he needs to be replaced with someone, anyone who can & will. 

    This is a receiver who has had multiple thousand yard receiving seasons in his career and although we weren't expecting that, we also weren't expecting 9 receptions for 196 yards over six games to date.  I note that you had plenty of problems during the lockout about players being paid so much, relative to the owners who were providing so much. Well, is the value proposition being met by Ochocinqo thus far?  In my opinion, so far he has not provided that value.  

    Despite your excuse for Ocho of a poorly called offensive game, I note that other players, caught passes yesterday, Branch, Welker, Hernandez, I think Woodhead had one, and Gronk of course.  Are you really going to tell us that because the run was not executed as many times as you think it should have been, ( and I aggee with you that it wasn't), that, that is the reason that Ocho had no catches yesterday?  He had no catches yesterday because the offense is still not learned and that is also playing into his lack of plays on the field.  There is no reason to  put a player on the field just to take up space if another player will be better in executing that play.  I think this is what is really happening with Ocho, due to his lack of learned knowledge about the PATS offense, he is viewed as a liability on the field if the coaches know he doesn't have a specific play down and judging from his lack of time on the field it must be quite a few.  

    All of that said, I still hope that he will come around a contribute but to say his lack of production is on Bill O'Brien, misses the point by a mile where Ocho is concerned.  He needs to get on the field and execute.  If he does that and he get opn, Tom will target him just like the rest.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    you have the best WR in the league in catches and yards (WW), two of the best TEs in the league both provide different matchup nightmares for Ds and a guy in Branch who's been in the system for a while.  Pats are playing a two TE two WR formation for a majority of the game for both passing and running plays.  Chad is just not able to get on the field because of what the O is doing.

    When he does offcourse he's not going to be the 1st 2nd or 3rd read right now.  Ds still have to account for him when he is, so he's doing a part which RM never wanted to and that was be a decoy.  An expensive one but this is a team sport and if that's his job right now, that's his job right now.

    IMO Chad is a kid in a man's body, I think he's trying so hard that he's just not playing with some instinct.  You can tell in breaks he's thinking making sure he ends up in the right place which makes him play slower.  as long as he's not a distraction, he's already got his money from the Pats why send him packing?  At worse he continues to be a decoy at best he is able to be more consistent and become a bigger part of the O.  I would not had traded for him, but now that he's here I don't think he needs to get released.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?:
    [QUOTE]you have the best WR in the league in catches and yards (WW), two of the best TEs in the league both provide different matchup nightmares for Ds and a guy in Branch who's been in the system for a while.  Pats are playing a two TE two WR formation for a majority of the game for both passing and running plays.  Chad is just not able to get on the field because of what the O is doing. When he does offcourse he's not going to be the 1st 2nd or 3rd read right now.  Ds still have to account for him when he is, so he's doing a part which RM never wanted to and that was be a decoy.  An expensive one but this is a team sport and if that's his job right now, that's his job right now. IMO Chad is a kid in a man's body, I think he's trying so hard that he's just not playing with some instinct.  You can tell in breaks he's thinking making sure he ends up in the right place which makes him play slower.  as long as he's not a distraction, he's already got his money from the Pats why send him packing?  At worse he continues to be a decoy at best he is able to be more consistent and become a bigger part of the O.  I would not had traded for him, but now that he's here I don't think he needs to get released.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Bingo. Great post

    I don't think people realize if you go out and get someone to replace Ocho then you are taking looks from the receivers that have been performing. Just as long as Ocho doesn't rock the boat he is fine and doing his job. He might not be overly productive on the field but they don't need him to be and he isn't hurting them off the field either. Getting someone like Lloyd is going to make Brady want to use him and maybe even force the ball into situations that might not be advantageous. With the current receiver core things are flowing nicely and everything is functioning fluidly. Why mess with something that isn't broke by adding in an unknown factor?

    But, if they were going to do it then this would be the week to do it.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BelichickDisciple. Show BelichickDisciple's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?:
    [QUOTE] Welker false started. Hernandez fumbled and had an easy drop in the flat. How come no one complains about those major blunders? Did Welker not know the snap count?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Ocho dropped a touchdown ball dropped perfectly into his hands a few weeks ago, one of only a few throws in his general direction. Hard to see how you can seriously compare Ocho's gaffe with Welker's or Hernandez's given the immense gaps in productivity. Ochocinco's no rookie, he is a seasoned pro, and a prominent one at that. Coming off a shortened off-season, you would think that he would have developed a better grasp of the Pats O. Not that I expected him to instantly become the go-to guy, but I would have expected SOME production. Maybe he has a serious undisclosed injury, but more likely imo he just doesn't fit in well with the pats Offensive scheme. I think BB liked him as a receiver and as a person, but here he's a square peg in a round hole.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust? : He's not productive even when he's on the field. That's the reality. I thought he was a can't miss pick up. I've said it earlier. There is no way he can even earn his salary in the regular season at this point. Hopefully he will bank for the Pats in the playoffs.
    Posted by tompenny[/QUOTE]

    Just sayin, it's hard to be productive when you don't get the snaps.  This is a tough line-up to crack when they mostly play 2 receiver sets and Welker/Branch have the chemistry that took years to develop.  I wouldn't call his 2 nice catches last week unproductive either.  The fact that he is getting more snaps than Edelman, Slater, Price, says something.
    I guess seeing that would take reading between the lines, though.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: Can We Officially Say Ocho Looks Like A Major Bust?

    He's at best their 5th option on any given play...but that's who he was brought in to be. The biggest asset he has is that personality many though would be an issue. He's the Rex Ryan of the Pats. How much drama has anyone heard about anyone else on the team...just about nothing. Part of that is your typical Pats attitude of being tight lipped...but Ocho also has a bigger hand in that than many think. If it's all about him, and nobody else minds that, then the team flows better...I compared him to Kevin Millar in another thread. He's still got talent...will contribute...and will be that media magnet for you. People have to think back to before 2007 here. Nobody needs to be that all-Madden star in this offense...it's an offense where many individuals with modest numbers becomes a team with high numbers.

     
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