Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

    Most people say Brady made Wes right? Cant say that about Troy. He was JUST as reliable a 3rd down target for Drew Bledsoe as Wes was to Brady. UD6, you probably dont know jack about the pats Pre_Brady so pardon me if I dont respect your opinion on this. Troy Brown played in 2 different ERAS and was succesfull in BOTH.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

     




    Well when taliking about Brown I'd say he is similar to Wes in a lot of ways...similar size, deep speed (or lack of), quickness. I'd say Brown without a doubt had better hands, but Brown had better hands than just about everyone. I think they both ran after the catch well, but I would say Welker is better. I think the reason Brown didn't get the production Welker does is because there were other recievers on that roster while he was here. Branch was there at one point, so was Givens, Patten too...we even had a couple of tightends that would catch 30 balls or so. Right now we have Welker and whatever tightend is healthy on any given Sunday. When they are both healthy, I think you see Welker's numbers drop a bit. At the begining of the year (when they were all healthy) you saw a drop in his numbers - when they started to get hurt the ball went to him again. 

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    Earlier in Brady's successful career it was always about Brady doing more with less.  That was the legend. 

     




    More lies and nonsense from the Dolts troll.

    Obviously Brady has been much more productive in his later career than his early career. So what you say makes no sense, as usual.

    The legend was that Brady was clutch and Fetus Head was a choker. Of course that was actually before Fetus Head threw a pick six to lose a SB.

    But when YOUR agenda is 100% consumed with making Fetus Head out to be the greatest ever, no lie is left unturned by you in that endeavor.

    Now go brush up on your "harmless college pranks". Maybe you can do better with that than your hero did and not have a judge decree you as a liar.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

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    "To all"?

    What a sneaky liar.  No one said "all" receivers at Brady's disposal. But, Brady demanded an upgrade after 2006 and he got it, minus 2009's set of receivers.

    But, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004's better than what he has now?

    2007, Nope.

    2010, Nope.

    2011, Nope.

    2012, Nope.

    All of these supporting casts are superior in talent to the Wesi years talent. The difference was Weis called all plays and Brady had very little or no autonomy until after Weis left. That is the difference. That's the "misconception".

    Every single non Pats fan drools over Welker, Moss, Hernandez, Gronk, etc.  When you're 4th WR in 2007 is Stallworth or your 4th or 5th option in 2011 is Branch and Ochocinco, yes, it'san embarrassment of riches.

    The only defense of weak casts are 2006 and 2009.

    That's it.

    2003 and 2004 somehow trump his 2007, 2010, 2011 and 2012 casts?  That's 2 seasons to 4 by my count.

     

     



    Brady's absolutely better 06-today than he was 01-04.  What Brady generally had in those years that he has lacked in later years is "protection".  Mentally he believes he lacks a  defense although the numbers prove differently.  Physically the defense may not be as good as it was in those early winning years, but no one can deny Brady's inability to step up when it mattered in many of the subsequent years. 

     

    One cannot simply say, "well he had his team up in the 4th Q".  If he produces only 14 points from an offense that averages 28, then that puts pressure on the defense.  Go back and look at the game logs, play-by-play, or even scoring progress of games when the pats were winning.  The pats were only down by more than a FG twice and only once was the game possibly in jeopardy (Oakland 2001). 

    Further, look at the turnovers the defense produced during those games.  Its significant and more than the games since. 

    So Brady's not had a defense and ST to protect him since the 01-04 run, at least not in the same way the did during that time.  The pressure falls on him to produce more, and he generally has.  Where he has faltered is evident in the pats failure to score in playoff games since. 

     




     

    UDC< I totally get that Brady could do less then with a better defense but to say he had no weapons???  Wow. They were deeper! Sure we didnt have Moss but last i checked he is STILL chasing a ring and put up another DOG performance in the SB failing to HELP his team the same way he DOGGED the 2007 postseason. Nothing has changed, but Givens putting double moves on big mouth RIcky Manning in SB 38 on the way to another CHIP? That I can respect. Branch catching the ball to put us in FG while being crushed and still holding on, that I can respect.  I would take TROY BROWN OVER RANDY MOSS IN THE PLAYOFFS ALL DAY!!!!




    Brady's had plenty of quality weapons his entire career, but saying that challenges his "legend" status, so its important for people like Babe to disagree.  He'll point to things like when they were drafted as his proof.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    While the 2007 offense was not as stacked as people think Watson (stinks), Maroney (terrible), Welker (great but a slot), Moss (all world), and a few role players, it was probably better on the whole than 2003. 2004 closer call, Dillon was elite, Branch, in his prime. They had to run more, because they didn't have the passing options, but it didn't matter. 

    This current offense has an overrated group of talent too. 

    Neither 2007 nor 2012/11/10 have an offensive line that is as good as those old clubs either. 

    Then ... well it's closer than it appears on paper. 

    Defense .. ugh... even more distant than I would like to admit. There is just no comparison. 




    Agree.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

    Most people say Brady made Wes right? Cant say that about Troy. He was JUST as reliable a 3rd down target for Drew Bledsoe as Wes was to Brady. UD6, you probably dont know jack about the pats Pre_Brady so pardon me if I dont respect your opinion on this. Troy Brown played in 2 different ERAS and was succesfull in BOTH.


    That's ok.  I think Brown was excellent.  I just think when you have a guy who probably has more yards and receptions (or is at least top 3) than any receiver in the NFL over the past 6 years you've got someone really special.  Welker may not get into the hall of fame - its hard for receivers, but no one can deny that he is playing hall of fame level football the past 6 years.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

     

    Earlier in Brady's successful career it was always about Brady doing more with less.  That was the legend. 

     

     




     

    More lies and nonsense from the Dolts troll.

    Obviously Brady has been much more productive in his later career than his early career. So what you say makes no sense, as usual.

    The legend was that Brady was clutch and Fetus Head was a choker. Of course that was actually before Fetus Head threw a pick six to lose a SB.

    But when YOUR agenda is 100% consumed with making Fetus Head out to be the greatest ever, no lie is left unturned by you in that endeavor.

    Now go brush up on your "harmless college pranks". Maybe you can do better with that than your hero did and not have a judge decree you as a liar.



    There's that legend too, but when you peel back the onion, you see that the legend depended on a lot of things most other QB's never had.  That's not to say that Brady hasn't had some great moments.  There's no doubt about that.  But he's given credit absent his kicker and defense, and now that his defense is like most others and he can't produce, we see who he really is,  Cue Denny Green.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    It comes so easy to Brady and Co most weeks in an offensive era with loaded talent on offense, that they don't know what to do when their main choice of offense doesn't work or work well.

     



    Where is the "loaded talent" beyond Brady junior?

    Ridley? The average runner. Granted he is better than Benny who is below average but he's still average.

    Welker? The guy who is a legend at this point for big drops in big games and is hard pressed to make his gimmick work against a tough D if Gronk isn't there to take off the heat.

    Gronk? Sure he is a bigtime clutch top level force in the offense. When he's there.

    Again, we get nothing from you but baloney and spin all designed to trash the one and only player we have that is a consistently major force in keeping this team in the mix.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    While the 2007 offense was not as stacked as people think Watson (stinks), Maroney (terrible), Welker (great but a slot), Moss (all world), and a few role players, it was probably better on the whole than 2003. 2004 closer call, Dillon was elite, Branch, in his prime. They had to run more, because they didn't have the passing options, but it didn't matter. 

    This current offense has an overrated group of talent too. 

    Neither 2007 nor 2012/11/10 have an offensive line that is as good as those old clubs either. 

    Then ... well it's closer than it appears on paper. 

    Defense .. ugh... even more distant than I would like to admit. There is just no comparison. 

     




    Agree.

     

     




    Well, we know you have mental illness alongside trolls like Shizzles, Hurlie, Pezzy and ZBellino, so of course you agree that David Patten is a better target than Welker or Givens better than Gronk or Hernandez. lol

     

    You all enjoy yourselves. My oh my is it sick to see unfold here.

     




    You're the troll dumbkoff.

    I don't recall anybody saying Givens was better than Gronk. More lies junior? Find that for me.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to UD6's comment:

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    In response to UD6's comment:

     

     

    Earlier in Brady's successful career it was always about Brady doing more with less.  That was the legend. 

     

     




     

    More lies and nonsense from the Dolts troll.

    Obviously Brady has been much more productive in his later career than his early career. So what you say makes no sense, as usual.

    The legend was that Brady was clutch and Fetus Head was a choker. Of course that was actually before Fetus Head threw a pick six to lose a SB.

    But when YOUR agenda is 100% consumed with making Fetus Head out to be the greatest ever, no lie is left unturned by you in that endeavor.

    Now go brush up on your "harmless college pranks". Maybe you can do better with that than your hero did and not have a judge decree you as a liar.

     



    There's that legend too, but when you peel back the onion, you see that the legend depended on a lot of things most other QB's never had.  That's not to say that Brady hasn't had some great moments.  There's no doubt about that.  But he's given credit absent his kicker and defense, and now that his defense is like most others and he can't produce, we see who he really is,  Cue Denny Green.

     




    And as I have bludgeoned you repeatedly on troll, the Colts D was was actually better around 40% of the seasons while Manning was up against Brady. So much for your troll work.

    And the "Vinatieri" won them for Brady" troll line is absurd. Did Fetus Head set up Vinatieri for a winning SB kick in the 5 years he played with him troll?

    Troll whipped with facts and sent packing with his tail between his legs again.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to UD6's comment:


    That's ok.  I think Brown was excellent.  I just think when you have a guy who probably has more yards and receptions (or is at least top 3) than any receiver in the NFL over the past 6 years you've got someone really special.  Welker may not get into the hall of fame - its hard for receivers, but no one can deny that he is playing hall of fame level football the past 6 years.

     



    More agenda driven nonsense from the Dolts troll. It is endless.

     

    Welker is a one trick pony, grab the short pass with his quickness and get a little yac with the same. HOF performance, NO. Good player, great gimmick, yes.

    Can you make one single post that isn't somehow connected to your troll agenda trying to make your sex offender hero out to be as good as Brady?

    Btw, grats on Fetus Head blowing another big game at the last minute with a pick troll. I know that and one and outs are old news from your boy, but we still enjoy them. There are just some things you can count on.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

    Most people say Brady made Wes right? Cant say that about Troy. He was JUST as reliable a 3rd down target for Drew Bledsoe as Wes was to Brady. UD6, you probably dont know jack about the pats Pre_Brady so pardon me if I dont respect your opinion on this. Troy Brown played in 2 different ERAS and was succesfull in BOTH.

     




    Glenn was bing played off the roster at that point Shizzles.  Glenn's best year was 90 catches in 1996. Fromthere, it was all downhil.

     

    I believe Troy had 101 catches one year (might have been 2000 with Bledsoe), but it wasn't when Glenn was producing.  

    Nice try, Shizzles. Pretending SB rings equate to talent is like saying Gomer Mannign had no talent around him in Indy in that dome because he got no rings.


    Fact is, Underpants is correct. brady did MORE with less, and that was winning games by being a better QB than Gomer Manning. Manning had the dome and stats ith the talent, Brady had cut players like Patten, Fred Coleman, Jermaine Wiggins, as his main targets along with Troy in 2001.

    To pretend Patten, then Givens or even a young Branch are better than a Welker, Gronk and Hernandez trio is pathetic.

    At worst its even. At worst.

    Brady has got to wake up and stop pouting and moping when he throws up bad balls, always whining that someone else ran a wrong route, stopped short or didn't work hard enough for him.

     

     



    Why do you have to make your own history. You actually agree about Wes but because it hurts your agenda youve had for 5 years, you make up stuff and act forgetful. I have not ONCE in this thread compared ANYONE to GRONK so STOP LYING! Im talking mainly about 07 but as usual, you just lie and make stuff up, and put words in peoples mouth. 2002 was the year Terry left.  He was suspened too. DId Troy catch 101 balls or not?  So he is capable. What are you arguing? do u even know??

     

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    Obviously, the D hasn't been as experienced and just like all other D's, they are affected by the Polian infused rule changes to help franchises make more money via Goodell

     



    Funny how the Seahawks managed to allow only 15.3 ppg this year despite Polian's rules junior. That's better than our highly ranked D managed in 2001 or 2004.

    Learn the game dumbkoff.

     
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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

    Most people say Brady made Wes right? Cant say that about Troy. He was JUST as reliable a 3rd down target for Drew Bledsoe as Wes was to Brady. UD6, you probably dont know jack about the pats Pre_Brady so pardon me if I dont respect your opinion on this. Troy Brown played in 2 different ERAS and was succesfull in BOTH.

     




    Glenn was bing played off the roster at that point Shizzles.  Glenn's best year was 90 catches in 1996. Fromthere, it was all downhil.

     

    I believe Troy had 101 catches one year (might have been 2000 with Bledsoe), but it wasn't when Glenn was producing.  

    Nice try, Shizzles. Pretending SB rings equate to talent is like saying Gomer Mannign had no talent around him in Indy in that dome because he got no rings.


    Fact is, Underpants is correct. brady did MORE with less, and that was winning games by being a better QB than Gomer Manning. Manning had the dome and stats ith the talent, Brady had cut players like Patten, Fred Coleman, Jermaine Wiggins, as his main targets along with Troy in 2001.

    To pretend Patten, then Givens or even a young Branch are better than a Welker, Gronk and Hernandez trio is pathetic.

    At worst its even. At worst.

    Brady has got to wake up and stop pouting and moping when he throws up bad balls, always whining that someone else ran a wrong route, stopped short or didn't work hard enough for him.

     

     

     


    I have not ONCE in this thread compared ANYONE to GRONK so STOP LYING!

     



    Asking junior to stop lying is like asking the sun to stop burning.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

    Most people say Brady made Wes right? Cant say that about Troy. He was JUST as reliable a 3rd down target for Drew Bledsoe as Wes was to Brady. UD6, you probably dont know jack about the pats Pre_Brady so pardon me if I dont respect your opinion on this. Troy Brown played in 2 different ERAS and was succesfull in BOTH.

     




    Glenn was bing played off the roster at that point Shizzles.  Glenn's best year was 90 catches in 1996. Fromthere, it was all downhil.

     

    I believe Troy had 101 catches one year (might have been 2000 with Bledsoe), but it wasn't when Glenn was producing.  

    Nice try, Shizzles. Pretending SB rings equate to talent is like saying Gomer Mannign had no talent around him in Indy in that dome because he got no rings.


    Fact is, Underpants is correct. brady did MORE with less, and that was winning games by being a better QB than Gomer Manning. Manning had the dome and stats ith the talent, Brady had cut players like Patten, Fred Coleman, Jermaine Wiggins, as his main targets along with Troy in 2001.

    To pretend Patten, then Givens or even a young Branch are better than a Welker, Gronk and Hernandez trio is pathetic.

    At worst its even. At worst.

    Brady has got to wake up and stop pouting and moping when he throws up bad balls, always whining that someone else ran a wrong route, stopped short or didn't work hard enough for him.

     

     

     



    Why do you have to make your own history. You actually agree about Wes but because it hurts your agenda youve had for 5 years, you make up stuff and act forgetful. I have not ONCE in this thread compared ANYONE to GRONK so STOP LYING! Im talking mainly about 07 but as usual, you just lie and make stuff up, and put words in peoples mouth. 2002 was the year Terry left.  He was suspened too. DId Troy catch 101 balls or not?  So he is capable. What are you arguing? do u even know??

     

     

     




    Someone had to catch all those balls from Bledsoe!  What does it matter how many Troy had? He was a very good, clutch player.  He's my favorite Patriot of all time.

     

    But, Welker is clearly more talented than Troy Brown. Not even debatable.  Welker could go to the HOF if he were to win a SB and have a strong finish to his career for crying out loud.

    Teams actually GAMEPLAN around Welker.  They didn't do that for Troy Brown.

    There is your difference. You lose, Mr. Brady Ballwasher.

    Enjoy the ballwashing on that doll of yours.



    So now that ive caught you lying...its "what does it matter how many troy caught"  FRAUD  FRUAD FRAUD!

    I know you like to ignore 2000 because that one year BB didnt have Brady and went 5-11 but Brown had 79 catches that year and Glenn had 83. Is that not production?? Is that not YOU trying to twist and change history to bash Brady more??

     

    what a FRAUD TROLL YOU ARE!  and you claim to be a fan while making statements like this "Troy never put up numbers when Glenn was producing" And now it doesnt matter !???

     

    LMAO @ YOU!  Take a rest JR!  You are burned out!  I was trying to give Props to my man Troy and you keep making this about Brady. Brown caught 100 passes back to back season with 2 diff. QBs!  Lets see if Wes does that when he leaves. You talk about others being obsessed with Brady but I think its you. YOu cant make ONE post without mentioning him. Did he turn you down back in the day?  You mustve been p*ssed when he found Gizelle huh? You never had a chance dude. When you try to make fun of someone by saying "they never touched a girl" Its Obvious , you dont get no P*ssy!  touching a girl Rusty!!!! ???  Really?!?!?  LMAO!  YOU ARE DONE JR!

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

    Most people say Brady made Wes right? Cant say that about Troy. He was JUST as reliable a 3rd down target for Drew Bledsoe as Wes was to Brady. UD6, you probably dont know jack about the pats Pre_Brady so pardon me if I dont respect your opinion on this. Troy Brown played in 2 different ERAS and was succesfull in BOTH.

     




    Glenn was bing played off the roster at that point Shizzles.  Glenn's best year was 90 catches in 1996. Fromthere, it was all downhil.

     

    I believe Troy had 101 catches one year (might have been 2000 with Bledsoe), but it wasn't when Glenn was producing.  

    Nice try, Shizzles. Pretending SB rings equate to talent is like saying Gomer Mannign had no talent around him in Indy in that dome because he got no rings.


    Fact is, Underpants is correct. brady did MORE with less, and that was winning games by being a better QB than Gomer Manning. Manning had the dome and stats ith the talent, Brady had cut players like Patten, Fred Coleman, Jermaine Wiggins, as his main targets along with Troy in 2001.

    To pretend Patten, then Givens or even a young Branch are better than a Welker, Gronk and Hernandez trio is pathetic.

    At worst its even. At worst.

    Brady has got to wake up and stop pouting and moping when he throws up bad balls, always whining that someone else ran a wrong route, stopped short or didn't work hard enough for him.

     

     

     



    Why do you have to make your own history. You actually agree about Wes but because it hurts your agenda youve had for 5 years, you make up stuff and act forgetful. I have not ONCE in this thread compared ANYONE to GRONK so STOP LYING! Im talking mainly about 07 but as usual, you just lie and make stuff up, and put words in peoples mouth. 2002 was the year Terry left.  He was suspened too. DId Troy catch 101 balls or not?  So he is capable. What are you arguing? do u even know??

     

     

     




    Someone had to catch all those balls from Bledsoe!  What does it matter how many Troy had? He was a very good, clutch player.  He's my favorite Patriot of all time.

     

    But, Welker is clearly more talented than Troy Brown. Not even debatable.  Welker could go to the HOF if he were to win a SB and have a strong finish to his career for crying out loud.

    Teams actually GAMEPLAN around Welker.  They didn't do that for Troy Brown.

    There is your difference. You lose, Mr. Brady Ballwasher.

    Enjoy the ballwashing on that doll of yours.

     



    So now that ive caught you lying...its "what does it matter how many troy caught"  FRAUD  FRUAD FRAUD!

     

    I know you like to ignore 2000 because that one year BB didnt have Brady and went 5-11 but Brown had 79 catches that year and Glenn had 83. Is that not production?? Is that not YOU trying to twist and change history to bash Brady more??

     

    what a FRAUD TROLL YOU ARE!  and you claim to be a fan while making statements like this "Troy never put up numbers when Glenn was producing" And now it doesnt matter !???

     

    LMAO @ YOU!  Take a rest JR!  You are burned out!  I was trying to give Props to my man Troy and you keep making this about Brady. Brown caught 100 passes back to back season with 2 diff. QBs!  Lets see if Wes does that when he leaves. You talk about others being obsessed with Brady but I think its you. YOu cant make ONE post without mentioning him. Did he turn you down back in the day?  You mustve been p*ssed when he found Gizelle huh? You never had a chance dude. When you try to make fun of someone by saying "they never touched a girl" Its Obvious , you dont get no P*ssy!  touching a girl Rusty!!!! ???  Really?!?!?  LMAO!  YOU ARE DONE JR!

     



    Does anyone have a clue what Shizzles is talking about?  Does anyone think Shizzles is posting from a mental instituion alongside Babe?

     

    First this guy posts a thread that says to deal Gronk and now he's focusing on how our 5-11 2000 team with Glenn and Brown catching balls from a pass happy Bledsoe with no RB on the team. Wow!  Super duper argument, Shizzles!

    Gee, Jay, maybe it's time to dust off that GED on your wall and get a real job (if you even have one now), because you're all out of ideas to deflect from Brady's recent playoff failures.

    Also, please remit your child support payments for the month. Thank you.

     



    Nice deflection!  So your definition of football analysis is saying teams gameplan for Welker??  So you cant correlate teams gameplanning for Wes because there was no run game and only 2 LEGIT Targets??  Why wouldnt they double Wes???  They have 7 guys to cover 2 guys!  LEARN THE GAME YOU EEEEDIOT! and stop lying and coming back with insults because you got caught fraud!

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

     

    Earlier in Brady's successful career it was always about Brady doing more with less.  That was the legend. 

     

     




     

    More lies and nonsense from the Dolts troll.

    Obviously Brady has been much more productive in his later career than his early career. So what you say makes no sense, as usual.

    The legend was that Brady was clutch and Fetus Head was a choker. Of course that was actually before Fetus Head threw a pick six to lose a SB.

    But when YOUR agenda is 100% consumed with making Fetus Head out to be the greatest ever, no lie is left unturned by you in that endeavor.

    Now go brush up on your "harmless college pranks". Maybe you can do better with that than your hero did and not have a judge decree you as a liar.

     



    There's that legend too, but when you peel back the onion, you see that the legend depended on a lot of things most other QB's never had.  That's not to say that Brady hasn't had some great moments.  There's no doubt about that.  But he's given credit absent his kicker and defense, and now that his defense is like most others and he can't produce, we see who he really is,  Cue Denny Green.

     

     




    It has nothing to do with the defense.  NE's D led the NFL in 2003 in turnovers, and he's had those kinds of Ds, giving him MORE drives in an OFFENSIVE era, the last 3 years.  He has more drives added into his offense the last 3 years than any other QB.

     

    Obviously, the D hasn't been as experienced and just like all other D's, they are affected by the Polian infused rule changes to help franchises make more money via Goodell, but Brady's weapons are superior.

    The point doesn't change. He's not as good with superior weapons at slot WR and TE.  That's two positions where he has superior talent. And how Brady runs the offense is his responsibility just like it was under Weis.

    Brady is slowly ruining the back end of his career by forgetting the details at the position. That's what has changed.

    He got a taste of personal glory in 2007 and thinks it's more about quick stat production than it is doing the small things right.

    I couldn't believe him with his arms folded pouting on that sideline in that SB 46 footage.

     

     



    Rusty - but not turnovers in the postseason.  Look it up.  playoff defensive TO's

    01-04 - 9 games 25 TO's

    05-curr - 15 games 20 TO's.  

    Brady couldn't lose in those early years given the defensive support.  Comparatively, 05-current that same support hasn't been there.  That said, Brady's been better, has won 2 MVP's, was required to lead the team more than in the winning years, ran offenses that ranked in the top 10 since 05 but did not produce those kinds of results in playoff losses.  

    In other words, yes, the defense was not as good, BUT Brady hasn't lived up to his end of the deal in playoff losses.  EG - the defense gave up 8 more points than its avg to Baltimore in the playoffs.  the offense however, produced 22 points less than its avg in the same game.  That's on Brady.

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

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    Why are you contradicting yourself?   Wes is still  more talented than Troy Brown in the slot role.

     

     

     



     

    More evidence (as if we needed any) that you don't know the game junior.

     

    Brown was much more the complete receiver that Wes is.

    Welker is a one trick pony. He uses extreme quickness to get catches on 6-8 yard dink and dunk passes and then turns that same shifty quickness into 4-5 yac. That's it. Other than that gimmick he is a small target below average WR. It is a hell of a gimmick though.

    Brown was much more effective in all roles other than that quickie stuff.

     



    Please someone call a doctor.  Babe has finally gone over the edge.  The "gimmick" of which you speak has Welker as possibly leading the league in both yards and receptions over the past 6 years.  That's not a gimmick that's a heck of a receiver.  There have been a heckuva lot more receivers of which significantly more was expected but have delivered significantly less. 

     

    And this is not to diminish Brown's own excellence.  He was excellent, but Welker could be a hall of famer.  The one thing I wonder is whether or not Brady spends time developing his receivers.  Excellent receivers have been brought in but not produced.  Does Brady not spend time with them working on the nuances of the system?

     


     Troy Brown had a 100 catch year playing across from Terry Glenn who was very good in his day. The point is, when you HAVE a real running game that YOU USE and a plethora of good WR's to choose from, you dont have a need to throw 100 times to one guy. Does anyone know how many balls Wes has had thrown to him over those 5 years??  its probably like 1200-1500 balls. Sure he catches a high percentage of them(5 yard passes) and is durable, I will give him that, but NOTHING else suggests he is better than Troy other than OPPORTUNITY! Brown never got to be the SOLE GUY! He DID catch a 85 yard bomb to win a OT game vs Miami. Brown never was an extension of the run game, but he does hold the patriots record for Punt returns(wes returns them too) with 2600 to Wes' 900  and has 3 Returns for TDs to Wes' ZERO!  Troy DID get drafted to play WR but ALSO played defense and had 3 pics and even picked off Bledsoe and Manning. Brown DID make the Crucial catch going out of bounds that gave us a chance to win our 1st Lombardi. A catch he had to reach for with his hands that im sure Wes would have dropped! Brown is a 3 time champ and a legend here and WEs very well may make the hall, but he aint got NO hardware and He aint got Sh*t on Troy!

    Most people say Brady made Wes right? Cant say that about Troy. He was JUST as reliable a 3rd down target for Drew Bledsoe as Wes was to Brady. UD6, you probably dont know jack about the pats Pre_Brady so pardon me if I dont respect your opinion on this. Troy Brown played in 2 different ERAS and was succesfull in BOTH.

     




    Glenn was bing played off the roster at that point Shizzles.  Glenn's best year was 90 catches in 1996. Fromthere, it was all downhil.

     

    I believe Troy had 101 catches one year (might have been 2000 with Bledsoe), but it wasn't when Glenn was producing.  

    Nice try, Shizzles. Pretending SB rings equate to talent is like saying Gomer Mannign had no talent around him in Indy in that dome because he got no rings.


    Fact is, Underpants is correct. brady did MORE with less, and that was winning games by being a better QB than Gomer Manning. Manning had the dome and stats ith the talent, Brady had cut players like Patten, Fred Coleman, Jermaine Wiggins, as his main targets along with Troy in 2001.

    To pretend Patten, then Givens or even a young Branch are better than a Welker, Gronk and Hernandez trio is pathetic.

    At worst its even. At worst.

    Brady has got to wake up and stop pouting and moping when he throws up bad balls, always whining that someone else ran a wrong route, stopped short or didn't work hard enough for him.

     

     



    Well I am not sure I agree with the Manning comment.  As talented as Harrison was, he was never a factor in the playoffs.  the pats defense frankly stuffed Edgerrin James.  I admit that early in Manning's career, the pats defense had Manning's #, and McGinest had a cleverly timed injury that may have given the pats defense enough of a blow so that they could finish a goal line stand.  Bush league, but clever. 

    There were a number of other unfortunate things with Manning - not to say that at times he didn't create some of his own problems, but...

     
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    Re: Can we PLEASE Clear up this Misconception...

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    But, Welker is clearly more talented than Troy Brown. Not even debatable.  Welker could go to the HOF if he were to win a SB and have a strong finish to his career for crying out loud.

    Teams actually GAMEPLAN around Welker.  They didn't do that for Troy Brown.

    There is your difference. You lose, Mr. Brady Ballwasher.

    Enjoy the ballwashing on that doll of yours.



    When Gronk is around (and formerly when Moss was around) Welker shines the best because that can't concentrate on his quickie game. When the opposing D can focus on his dink and dunk scheme, with some yac thrown in, he is not very effective.

    Good player with a great quickness gimmick, but no HOFer. Brown was a much more complete receiver. Learn the game junior.

    I would be happy to see him back on a 3 year, 5 mil deal. But we still need a stud receiver to keep him effective against tough teams because our elite talent Gronk is hurt too much. Would have been nice if Lloyd was better but he's really only a decent #2 and very good #3 receiver.

     

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