Can't blame the defense too much here..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from smorgan86. Show smorgan86's posts

    Can't blame the defense too much here..

    Yes, although they again failed to preserve our slim lead and failed to get off the field on 3rd downs in the final drive (and throughout much of the game) that has been the personality of this defense all year and we were living and dying by it and we still got to the show. The blame here falls squarely on our "playmakers" on offense who were carrying us all season but then failed miserably on the key drive with 5 minutes to play. Brady in particular and to a slightly lesser degree, Welker. They CAN't miss that play. If Brady makes a better throw to a WIDE OPEN Welker, that's 6. Should Welker have made the catch anyway..absolutely. Ball was high and wide but Welker has been making that catch all year. That series was the game..PERIOD.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    why not? The offense has been carryig the defense for years now. When will the Patriots be able to depend on the d to win a big game?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]Yes, although they again failed to preserve our slim lead and failed to get off the field on 3rd downs in the final drive (and throughout much of the game) that has been the personality of this defense all year and we were living and dying by it and we still got to the show. The blame here falls squarely on our "playmakers" on offense who were carrying us all season but then failed miserably on the key drive with 5 minutes to play. Brady in particular and to a slightly lesser degree, Welker. They CAN't miss that play. If Brady makes a better throw to a WIDE OPEN Welker, that's 6. Should Welker have made the catch anyway..absolutely. Ball was high and wide but Welker has been making that catch all year. That series was the game..PERIOD.
    Posted by smorgan86[/QUOTE]

    totally agree.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..



    The defense played pretty well and held the Giants to a reasonable point total, so you have to give them credit for that.  But things are a bit more complex than they seem.  One of the biggest problems with this game is it ended up being only a nine drive game (the average number of drives per team per game is about 11.5).  The Pats do best when their offense has at least 11 or 12 chances to score.  With only nine, it's a lot tougher for us to score the points we need.  The major reason we had such few drives is because the defense couldn't get off the field.  They may not have been giving up points, but they were allowing the Giants to possess the ball for long stretches and therefore limiting the number of chances our offense had. The offense deserves blame here too, for failing to sustain drives, but the defense wasn't helping them out.  The defense allowed three drives of 5 or more minutes, 3 drives of 4 or more minutes, and one drive of 3 and a half minutes.  In fact, the only drives shorter than those were the Giants' longest drive by yardage (the 88 yard touchdown drive that won the game) and their kneel down at halftime. A lot of folks argue that as long as the D doesn't give up points, yards and time don't matter.  But there are consequences to these long drives and one of the most significant is that it means fewer chances for our offense.  



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]The defense played pretty well and held the Giants to a reasonable point total, so you have to give them credit for that.  But things are a bit more complex than they seem.  One of the biggest problems with this game is it ended up being only a nine drive game (the average number of drives per team per game is about 11.5).  The Pats do best when their offense has at least 11 or 12 chances to score.  With only nine, it's a lot tougher for us to score the points we need.  The major reason we had such few drives is because the defense couldn't get off the field.  They may not have been giving up points, but they were allowing the Giants to possess the ball for long stretches and therefore limiting the number of chances our offense had. The offense deserves blame here too, for failing to sustain drives, but the defense wasn't helping them out.  The defense allowed three drives of 5 or more minutes, 3 drives of 4 or more minutes, and one drive of 3 and a half minutes.  In fact, the only drives shorter than those were the Giants' longest drive by yardage (the 88 yard touchdown drive that won the game) and their kneel down at halftime. A lot of folks argue that as long as the D doesn't score points, yards and time don't matter.  But there are consequences to these long drives and one of the most significant is that it means fewer chances for our offense.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    That is a good point, but remember, the Giants had the ball for 12 minutes in the 1st quarter starting with an erro by the offense. They need to be on the field for more than one play.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here.. : That is a good point, but remember, the Giants had the ball for 12 minutes in the 1st quarter starting with an erro by the offense. They need to be on the field for more than one play.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]


    Yep . . . I agree.  The offense didn't help itself with some of its plays.  All season, though, we've suffered from limited offensive possessions, despite an offense that tends to move the ball fast and get (generally) good results from its fast drives.  With a speedy offense like ours, you'd expect 13 possession games.  But we get more like 10 or 11 because the defense gives up so many clock-eating drives.   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from yakv. Show yakv's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    Blame Is all around Offense defense 
    but when the hell wil the defense 
    make one big stop when it matters last drive 
    stil waiting
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    The defense did its job. Brady can't start the game off with a safety. First mistake. Second mistake, horrible pass to an open Welker. Third, the heave to a hobbled covered GRONK that gets picked. That play was the beginning of the end. First and 10 and you heave a hail mary pass. Y? No reason for that play to happen. Just work the ball and the clock. That play killed the PATS period. The defense held the Giants to 2 field goals in the fourth before the final touchdown. The offense did nothing during those field goals. The offense did not score again with over ten minutes to go in the third(after opening the half with a touchdown). You can't win many Super Bowls without scoring points with that much time left in the game. Offense failed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]The defense played pretty well and held the Giants to a reasonable point total, so you have to give them credit for that.  But things are a bit more complex than they seem.  One of the biggest problems with this game is it ended up being only a nine drive game (the average number of drives per team per game is about 11.5).  The Pats do best when their offense has at least 11 or 12 chances to score.  With only nine, it's a lot tougher for us to score the points we need.  The major reason we had such few drives is because the defense couldn't get off the field.  They may not have been giving up points, but they were allowing the Giants to possess the ball for long stretches and therefore limiting the number of chances our offense had. The offense deserves blame here too, for failing to sustain drives, but the defense wasn't helping them out.  The defense allowed three drives of 5 or more minutes, 3 drives of 4 or more minutes, and one drive of 3 and a half minutes.  In fact, the only drives shorter than those were the Giants' longest drive by yardage (the 88 yard touchdown drive that won the game) and their kneel down at halftime. A lot of folks argue that as long as the D doesn't give up points, yards and time don't matter.  But there are consequences to these long drives and one of the most significant is that it means fewer chances for our offense.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Excellent points. The Giants executed the game plan that enhanced their strengths. The Patriots rush D did worse than expected;especially with Jacobs.

    Coughlin played field position as good as anyone else - the Patriots did not have very good field position most of the game - and needed a turnover for better field position. They had two opportunities, but couldn't come up with the ball.

    Here's an analogy. There was a time when the Colts won a whole bunch of games with a pass oriented offense and bad defense. They won regularly except when facing certain teams....like the Patriots. The Patriots back then had a both a decent offense, and a defense that came up big when it counted the most.

    Sound familiar? The current Patriots are built like the Colts of the past, the current Giants are built much like the Patriots of the past.

    The Patriots of the past were built to beat teams like Colts....just like today's Giants are built to beat teams like the current Patriots.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]The defense did its job. Brady can't start the game off with a safety. First mistake. Second mistake, horrible pass to an open Welker. Third, the heave to a hobbled covered GRONK that gets picked. That play was the beginning of the end. First and 10 and you heave a hail mary pass. Y? No reason for that play to happen. Just work the ball and the clock. That play killed the PATS period. The defense held the Giants to 2 field goals in the fourth before the final touchdown. The offense did nothing during those field goals. The offense did not score again with over ten minutes to go in the third(after opening the half with a touchdown). You can't win many Super Bowls without scoring points with that much time left in the game. Offense failed.
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

    quick question, why were the patriots passing deep in our own side of the field? to me that's a coaching problem....
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]The bend but dont break defense will most of the time give the Offense the LONG field. 1) Mental mistake, offsides by Nink. That play was HUGE. Simple 5 yard penalty, instead of us getting the ball in Good Field Position, we let them out of the hole. Defense played a darn good game. Giants had the ball a heck of a lot longer and the D kept us in the game.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]


    One of the reasons the Giants had the ball a heck of a lot longer, though, was because the D wasn't able to shorten their drives.  D didn't give up points, but it gave up a lot of time and that kept our offense off the field. 


     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here.. : quick question, why were the patriots passing deep in our own side of the field? to me that's a coaching problem....
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    Come on Bubba. Brady should have learned his lesson from the Ravens game. No need to heave that ball to a hobbled covered Gronk. That was costly.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here.. : One of the reasons the Giants had the ball a heck of a lot longer, though, was because the D wasn't able to shorten their drives.  D didn't give up points, but it gave up a lot of time and that kept our offense off the field. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Brady two turn overs.

    9 points off his two turnovers.

    More importantly, the Giants had 11:01 MORE of time of Possession and Chances on those TWO turnovers.


    The D did more than it's job even while having to deal with defending the extra possessions Brady GAVE to the Giants.

    The D avg 21 points a game allowed. They gave up 24 with 2 giveaway possessions by Brady and some of their own meh plays like 12 men on the field, Nink offside, and Mayo not watching the football and missing and easy gift INT, etc. 3 point diff from avg.

    The Offense avg. Over 30 points a game scored. They scored 17. Much bigger disparity.

    I don't want to hear anyone trying to blame the D. Brady never even drove them into field goal range for the last 26 mins. Not even a shot at a long field goal to add some points.

    How many extra possessions did Eli give Brady to work with?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    Blame is on the team all-around. You can't blame the D more then the O here because both were at fault.

    Offense was shut down in the final 25 minutes of the game, can you blame the D for that? I know I wont.

    That pick on a bomb to Gronk was the play of the game in my opinion. A healthy Gronk gets that ball with ease. The Welker drop, the drop by Branch, the safety were all offensive blunders that did not help. Defense had its fair share of errors, Mayo not playing underneath correctly on the Cruz touchdown, 12 men on the field when we forced the fumble, not recovering the two other fumbles, Nink's off-sides penalty.

    Blame goes all around...

    With that said, this D will improve over the off-season because we are once again stacked for the draft and have cap room to pursue Free Agents. O can get better with McDaniels coming in, Gronk getting healthy and possibly the emergence of Ridley or Vereen( I think both have the potential to be good/great RB's)

    Its not at all "gloom and doom" and while this loss burns badly, I'm excited for next year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    They played well enough until the last drive, when it mattered most. Bend but Don't Break doesn't work when you are only up by 2 with 3 minutes left.

    As for the INT, give Blackburn credit, that was a ridiculous athletic play for a guy like that to make the catch, especially with Gronk all over him. Plus, Gronk was wide open when he actually threw it, Blackburn just ran it down.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Waynestarr. Show Waynestarr's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    We need to diversify the offense. Changes have to be made because when you rely on pretty much just three or four players: Gronk, Welker, Hernandez, and Green-Ellis, the offense will get figured out eventually and we won't get over the hump.


    Look at the Saints' offense. They have several deep threat receivers: Devery Henderson, Robert Meachum, Marcus Colston, and Lance Moore.

    The have several TRUE power running backs: Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, Mark Ingram, and Chris Ivory.

    They have a dominant tight end in Jimmy Graham.

    The only thing that did in the Saints was their defense. My point is, until we get a truly diversified offense with MANY different weapons, we're not going to make it far from here on out.



     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    Blaming either side is a waste of breath & bandwidth!!

    BOTH sides have their flaws, and BOTH made mistakes last night.

    We have a high powered offense that was without one of it's best weapons, and they weren't able to sustain a few important drives....FAIL

    We have a defense that when faced with having to make a crucial stop, they can't get off the field....FAIL

    Both sides cost us this game. End of story.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffory. Show jeffory's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    We need a long threat to go along with tight ends and Welker. We need a saftey and defesive end that can rush.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

     The stupid safety hurt us. The INT hurt us. The drops and off target passes hurt us.
    You can complain all you want about the D but we had a chance to run the clock down and the offense couldn't convert for 1 first down. The same thing happened in the Ravens game.

    The defense gave up 19 points to an offense with a great group of receivers.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]Blaming either side is a waste of breath & bandwidth!! BOTH sides have their flaws, and BOTH made mistakes last night. We have a high powered offense that was without one of it's best weapons, and they weren't able to sustain a few important drives....FAIL We have a defense that when faced with having to make a crucial stop, they can't get off the field....FAIL Both sides cost us this game. End of story.
    Posted by tanbass[/QUOTE]

    D forces a punt off Brady's 2nd turnover coming up with a crucial stop and allowing no points on Brady's VERY poor decision - PASS

    Its the NFL and you aren't holding one of the top ranked Offenses down all day long in most cases AND certainly NOT when your QB gives that other offense 2 FREE possessions to work with.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    In Response to Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..:
    [QUOTE]why not? The offense has been carryig the defense for years now. When will the Patriots be able to depend on the d to win a big game?
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    Here is why - and this is dicounting that truly boneheaded, rookie mistake that resulted in a safty ont he very very very very very first pay they ran:

    Brady throws deep to Gronk (his injury making him less able to adjust to the ball)... a HORRIBLY thrown ball and one that was also unnecessary. Repeat of the Ravens game intercetpion.

    follow that wonderful decision and lack of execution with the not so good throw to Welker. But that play isn't all on Brady. Welker had BOTH hands solidly on the ball.

    The difference in the game (beside Gronk not being healthy) came down to Brady and Wes not being able to finish the play while the Giants come up with a BIG and not so easy catch downfield to set up their goo ahead score.

    Yes the D needs a broader core group of playmakers but they played as well as anyone could have expected. The offense gave this game away by not winning it on EITHER of their last two possessions (prior to needing a hail mary). It was a carbon copy of the Ravns game by this offense down the stretch. Very frustrating.

    Yes the D needs more key playmakers - espcially on the edge as Mayo, Spikes, Vinny and Chung are very good. The D needs a REALLY good D end who can play the run and the pass and anchor one side of the D. And they need at elast one really, really solid OLB (I like Nink and he could be one of the starters on a more dominant D but not as one of the core that make the D elite). And at least one especially good CB. Upgrades elsewhere are nice but those three are needed or they need a devastating pass rush that requires little to no blitzing in order to make this a SuperBowl caliber D.

    And with all the above taken in to consideration the Pats did MAKE IT TO THE SUPERBOWL and they did MAKE IT A REAL GAME. They were good enough to put themselves in a position to win. They just couldn't close the deal.

    For better or worse the Pats lost this themsleves. It didnt take a great play by the Giants D. The Pats O just could not close the deal.

    Good year. Just a frustrating ending.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ASO9771. Show ASO9771's posts

    Re: Can't blame the defense too much here..

    "Sound familiar? The current Patriots are built like the Colts of the past, the current Giants are built much like the Patriots of the past.

    The Patriots of the past were built to beat teams like Colts....just like today's Giants are built to beat teams like the current Patriots."



    Is Brady morphing to P.Manningesque? Stellar regular season, but now can't win the BIG games....

    How frustrating, now we have to hear about eli for next six months again.
    I can't watch...

     
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