Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

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    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

     

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 


    90 % of the money spent on health care in Canada goes to the Bureaucracy,not Doctors nurses,machines ,building Hospitals etc.Anytime the goverment runs anything its always 80 -90 percent wasted.


     
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    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

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    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    There's an academic side to this discussion and a real life side. If you are in business (but not the CEO of Disney) you make decisions based on the information you have and based on how much money is in your operating account and how much you need to make payroll and your expected cash flow and all of that.

    You can talk academically about Disney and other companies like that and it's interesting, but I am to the CEO of Disney what a single engine Cessna pilot is to Captain Kirk. I'm worried about the wind speed and the conditions on the ground because one little slipup and I'm dead. I'm not thinking about Starfleet or Uhuru's legs, I don't have that luxury.

    Our health insurance carrier was charging us about $11K/month and quoted us almost $15K to renew.  And they basically said that next year it might double. So we have to see if there's a cheaper way to insure our people, or if there are other ways to reduce that cost like pass some of it on to the employees. Or do we make up the $4K a month by letting someone go. I don't want to do any of that, but if you want to keep the doors open it's that type of stuff that you have to consider.  

    I can't tell you whether Obamacare is the cause of those increases, I only know it isn't getting any cheaper. And if you think business is just going to absorb those kinds of increased costs for the good of the country, well good luck with that. You're going to pay for it, with your job, your pay, in the cost of goods, in higher taxes.  

     



    This I agree with.  In any business, but particularly small ones, cash flow is critical, and healthcare costs are a huge problem because they put such pressure on both cash flow and profits. What I don't really get, though, is why American business men hate the idea of government healthcare.  I guess I'd love to see the government take it off my bottom line.  Obama care with exchanges is a path toward that actually, though relying on the private sector to provide the coverage rather than handing it over to the government.  This seems like a win for business, so I'm not sure where all the anti Obama vitriol is coming from.  Maybe people just don't understand it well enough.

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 

     

     



    Yet Americans seem to love their military which is, after all, a government organization, no?

     

     


    Sure we do. The military is a volunteer organization, they don't shove it down our throat. The military isn't run by the IRS. 

     

     



    No one drafts IRS agents either so that's a nonsequitur. No denying the military is a government-run org. 

     

     



    Many IRS personnel are appointed.  I assume that you renounced your us citizenship when you moved to Canada ?  My wife is Canadian, and a dr aswell. Your health care up there isn't that great. 

     

     



    No, I'm a US citizen.  I've had excellent care here in Toronto and I have fairly complex conditions.

     

    But again you ignore the main point.  Is or is not the US military government run? And, if so, is it well run or not? 

     
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    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    No, I'm a US citizen.  I've had excellent care here in Toronto and I have fairly complex conditions.

    But again you ignore the main point.  Is or is not the US military government run? And, if so, is it well run or not? 



    Yes, if incredibly bloated bureaucracy and spectacular waste are indicators of a well-run operation. It's a well-oiled machine that Pentagon. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    No, I'm a US citizen.  I've had excellent care here in Toronto and I have fairly complex conditions.

    But again you ignore the main point.  Is or is not the US military government run? And, if so, is it well run or not? 

     



    Yes, if incredibly bloated bureaucracy and spectacular waste are indicators of a well-run operation. It's a well-oiled machine that Pentagon. 

     



    I agree, of course, but I was asking Phil his opinion. 

    Even so, I assume we'd all agree it's a necessary function of government, no?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    There's an academic side to this discussion and a real life side. If you are in business (but not the CEO of Disney) you make decisions based on the information you have and based on how much money is in your operating account and how much you need to make payroll and your expected cash flow and all of that.

    You can talk academically about Disney and other companies like that and it's interesting, but I am to the CEO of Disney what a single engine Cessna pilot is to Captain Kirk. I'm worried about the wind speed and the conditions on the ground because one little slipup and I'm dead. I'm not thinking about Starfleet or Uhuru's legs, I don't have that luxury.

    Our health insurance carrier was charging us about $11K/month and quoted us almost $15K to renew.  And they basically said that next year it might double. So we have to see if there's a cheaper way to insure our people, or if there are other ways to reduce that cost like pass some of it on to the employees. Or do we make up the $4K a month by letting someone go. I don't want to do any of that, but if you want to keep the doors open it's that type of stuff that you have to consider.  

    I can't tell you whether Obamacare is the cause of those increases, I only know it isn't getting any cheaper. And if you think business is just going to absorb those kinds of increased costs for the good of the country, well good luck with that. You're going to pay for it, with your job, your pay, in the cost of goods, in higher taxes.  

     



    This I agree with.  In any business, but particularly small ones, cash flow is critical, and healthcare costs are a huge problem because they put such pressure on both cash flow and profits. What I don't really get, though, is why American business men hate the idea of government healthcare.  I guess I'd love to see the government take it off my bottom line.  Obama care with exchanges is a path toward that actually, though relying on the private sector to provide the coverage rather than handing it over to the government.  This seems like a win for business, so I'm not sure where all the anti Obama vitriol is coming from.  Maybe people just don't understand it well enough.

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 

     

     



    Yet Americans seem to love their military which is, after all, a government organization, no?

     

     


    Sure we do. The military is a volunteer organization, they don't shove it down our throat. The military isn't run by the IRS. 

     

     



    No one drafts IRS agents either so that's a nonsequitur. No denying the military is a government-run org. 

     

     



    Many IRS personnel are appointed.  I assume that you renounced your us citizenship when you moved to Canada ?  My wife is Canadian, and a dr aswell. Your health care up there isn't that great. 

     

     



    No, I'm a US citizen.  I've had excellent care here in Toronto and I have fairly complex conditions.

     

    But again you ignore the main point.  Is or is not the US military government run? And, if so, is it well run or not? 

     

     

    I have no issues with the military being out of control. Just that point alone is reason not to give the government that much power again. why not allow insurance companies to sell across state lines that would make a huge difference. How about eliminate tort lawsuits. That would indirectly lower medical costs. Like I said my wife has complex medical conditions too. If she wasn't a dr she would have to wait months to get treatment. You serve the country in Canada you get preferential  treatment in some cases. The health care I believe is something like 30% of our economy. Their licking their chops how they can spend all that money. IMO Walmart type company's will save healthcare.  They will have walkin clinics like how they drop medicine costs for those that can't afford it. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Looks like many have gotten wise to ESPN's games the last few years, where they haven't been able to pay their bills well enough.

    I feel sorry for the employees who are affected, even RKrap.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/21/espn-layoffs-sports-netwo_n_3313520.html

     



    not surprised by your (lack of) sensitivity on the issue. it was expected from you. wish the announcement came out while I had you on one of my 5 days of ignore.

     

    I brought 18 employees with me here, 3 of them will now be "contracted"...will work same jobs/hours, but as independat/3rd part hires, not employees

    Healthcare costs/401k have all contributed to the reduction. Not sure where you are coming from on the "dont pay their bills" comment



    The cost of health care and health care insurance is outrageous. FOr example, the charing of truly outrageous fees by hospitals because "they can" is just too much. I am a big free market person and that MEANS that having a local monopoly on something as CRITICAL as health care can not be condoned. Monopolies, especially with a MUST HAVE good or service (like health care or phone cimmunications, etc) requires rules (regulations, yes... there ARE times when regulations are helpful... ) are needed.

    I apologize for the political aspect but it is in regards to the issue of the thread. Not meant to be a partisan post (especially as my meaning/intent is actually non-partisan).

     
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    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    There's an academic side to this discussion and a real life side. If you are in business (but not the CEO of Disney) you make decisions based on the information you have and based on how much money is in your operating account and how much you need to make payroll and your expected cash flow and all of that.

    You can talk academically about Disney and other companies like that and it's interesting, but I am to the CEO of Disney what a single engine Cessna pilot is to Captain Kirk. I'm worried about the wind speed and the conditions on the ground because one little slipup and I'm dead. I'm not thinking about Starfleet or Uhuru's legs, I don't have that luxury.

    Our health insurance carrier was charging us about $11K/month and quoted us almost $15K to renew.  And they basically said that next year it might double. So we have to see if there's a cheaper way to insure our people, or if there are other ways to reduce that cost like pass some of it on to the employees. Or do we make up the $4K a month by letting someone go. I don't want to do any of that, but if you want to keep the doors open it's that type of stuff that you have to consider.  

    I can't tell you whether Obamacare is the cause of those increases, I only know it isn't getting any cheaper. And if you think business is just going to absorb those kinds of increased costs for the good of the country, well good luck with that. You're going to pay for it, with your job, your pay, in the cost of goods, in higher taxes.  

     



    This I agree with.  In any business, but particularly small ones, cash flow is critical, and healthcare costs are a huge problem because they put such pressure on both cash flow and profits. What I don't really get, though, is why American business men hate the idea of government healthcare.  I guess I'd love to see the government take it off my bottom line.  Obama care with exchanges is a path toward that actually, though relying on the private sector to provide the coverage rather than handing it over to the government.  This seems like a win for business, so I'm not sure where all the anti Obama vitriol is coming from.  Maybe people just don't understand it well enough.

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 

     

     



    Yet Americans seem to love their military which is, after all, a government organization, no?

     

     


    Sure we do. The military is a volunteer organization, they don't shove it down our throat. The military isn't run by the IRS. 

     

     



    No one drafts IRS agents either so that's a nonsequitur. No denying the military is a government-run org. 

     

     



    Many IRS personnel are appointed.  I assume that you renounced your us citizenship when you moved to Canada ?  My wife is Canadian, and a dr aswell. Your health care up there isn't that great. 

     

     



    No, I'm a US citizen.  I've had excellent care here in Toronto and I have fairly complex conditions.

     

    But again you ignore the main point.  Is or is not the US military government run? And, if so, is it well run or not? 

     

     

    I have no issues with the military being out of control. Just that point alone is reason not to give the government that much power again. why not allow insurance companies to sell across state lines that would make a huge difference. How about eliminate tort lawsuits. That would indirectly lower medical costs. Like I said my wife has complex medical conditions too. If she wasn't a dr she would have to wait months to get treatment. You serve the country in Canada you get preferential  treatment in some cases. The health care I believe is something like 30% of our economy. Their licking their chops how they can spend all that money. IMO Walmart type company's will save healthcare.  They will have walkin clinics like how they drop medicine costs for those that can't afford it. 




    There are multiple, viable, good aporaches to controling health care and health insurance costs. And they are NOT mutually exclusive. You point out some valid ones. There are others as well. And it will need to be multiple. There will be people (here and elsewhere) who bring up one choice or another... the thing is that we need to incorporate valid, effective ideas plural. So many of us will be right without being complete on all counts. Don't make the mistake of embrassing only the one or two your party thumps about. And remember that monopolies on critical services require special treatment (regulations... sorry for the R word).

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    No, I'm a US citizen.  I've had excellent care here in Toronto and I have fairly complex conditions.

    But again you ignore the main point.  Is or is not the US military government run? And, if so, is it well run or not? 

     



    Yes, if incredibly bloated bureaucracy and spectacular waste are indicators of a well-run operation. It's a well-oiled machine that Pentagon. 

     




    Actually the problems are not the Pentagon per se but the CORRUPTION of DOD contractors and the complicity of the people YOU voted for (I say YOU not to exclude me but to make the point that everyone seems to think only THEIR congressperson should be there and everyone else's is "the bad one" when in fact the sytem is corrupt and needs changing... non-partisan.. both parties... )...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    The premise of some kind of anti patriot conspiracy is bs.  Especially here.  Boston has its own ESPN site and reporters and the pats have former players on staff.  Anyone here who sees it is paranoid and delusional. 

    If you want bias against, try living in a small market. 

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to UD6's comment:

    The premise of some kind of anti patriot conspiracy is bs.  Especially here.  Boston has its own ESPN site and reporters and the pats have former players on staff.  Anyone here who sees it is paranoid and delusional. 

    If you want bias against, try living in a small market. 

     

     



    Looks like someone didn't read the thread. 

     
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    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to ReturnofBologna's comment:

     

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 


    90 % of the money spent on health care in Canada goes to the Bureaucracy,not Doctors nurses,machines ,building Hospitals etc.Anytime the goverment runs anything its always 80 -90 percent wasted.





    Did you just write something that makes sense? Come pow mow, with a bartle do? A bartle dee? A bartle do?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGoljjPSyBQ

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    As an aside to the ESPN hatred, can anyone name a company in corporate America that is not doing the same thing? 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    There's an academic side to this discussion and a real life side. If you are in business (but not the CEO of Disney) you make decisions based on the information you have and based on how much money is in your operating account and how much you need to make payroll and your expected cash flow and all of that.

    You can talk academically about Disney and other companies like that and it's interesting, but I am to the CEO of Disney what a single engine Cessna pilot is to Captain Kirk. I'm worried about the wind speed and the conditions on the ground because one little slipup and I'm dead. I'm not thinking about Starfleet or Uhuru's legs, I don't have that luxury.

    Our health insurance carrier was charging us about $11K/month and quoted us almost $15K to renew.  And they basically said that next year it might double. So we have to see if there's a cheaper way to insure our people, or if there are other ways to reduce that cost like pass some of it on to the employees. Or do we make up the $4K a month by letting someone go. I don't want to do any of that, but if you want to keep the doors open it's that type of stuff that you have to consider.  

    I can't tell you whether Obamacare is the cause of those increases, I only know it isn't getting any cheaper. And if you think business is just going to absorb those kinds of increased costs for the good of the country, well good luck with that. You're going to pay for it, with your job, your pay, in the cost of goods, in higher taxes.  

     



    Interesting post, Muzz.  Not sure what line of work you're in but the Cessna pilot/Captain Kirk analogy is apt for me as well and, trust me, I'm nobody's Captain Kirk.  I absolutely agree with you on the day-to-day considerations that impact small businesses. I was faced with a similar situation from a health insurance standpoint and at essentially the same monthly cost.  The increase was not as large but it was significant.  We got a little creative in terms of how to deal with the situation and the choices that we had to make. We're assessing whether or not we made the most cost-effective choice now.   I haven't the remotest clue as to what impact the ACA is going to have on our insurance costs and, in my opinion, no one else does either.  Only time will tell.  I will say this:  the hyperbolic horror stories that are being tossed around like a frisbee about disastrous job losses are largely political rhetoric at least at this point.  The provisions of the act that have the biggest impact on businesses won't take effect until next year and, in any event, will have little or no impact on me since my workforce is fewer than 30 including myself.

     

    Those concerned about the ACA or 'Obamacare' and the impact it will have may find this piece in Forbes of interest:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2013/04/22/is-the-affordable-care-act-really-bad-for-business/

    I hasten to point out that Forbes is no White House house organ.  

    And yes, 401k plans, health insurance, paid leave are very much a cost of doing business.  I'll deal with the issues as they come as I suspect you will as well, Muzz, and every other small business CEO.

    My humble 2 cents.

     



    ATJ, just want to say you seem to have your head in the right place.  Wish more business owners thought like you.  Many do, but maybe not enough.  There's been a shift, I think, in the values of American businesspeople.  While no good businessperson can ignore the need to control costs and  stay profitable, there's no reason why other objectives--including treating one's workers well--can't be taken into consideration.  In fact, I'd argue that the best (i.e., the most innovative and fastest growing) business's in the world are almost all led by visionary leaders who certainly are financially astute, but who also see things other than the bottom line as important.  Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and the Google founders all cared about financial success--but it's clear that all saw their businesses as more than just money-generators.  Most had a great--almost childish--love of the products they produced.  That came first . . . money was almost an after thought it seems for many of them. 

    Unfortunately the culture of American buisness is now dominated by a pseudo-Darwinistic view of business where maximizing profit is all that matters and thinking beyond profit is seen as "weak" or "foolish" and a recipe for exinction. (Of course, the one thing top management never cuts to maximize profit is their own bloated eight and nine figure salaries.) I think this attitude actually produces a lot of mediocrity in American companies.  Getting the numbers right is essential to keeping a business healthy, but if it becomes all that matters, the things that truly make a business great--innovation, quality, service, the ability to attract and retain the best people in the industry--all disappear. I wish more business leaders would take a broader view--managing finances well of course, but also thinking more about the impact of their businesses on things beyond profit.  In the past, many did.  And many still do.  But there's a tendency in American business culture to believe that a relentless focus on maximizing profits regardless of consequences is essential--even virtuous--and any attempt to consider anything beyond profit is somehow weak, foolish, and misguided.  

     

     

     
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    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    I'll just add one more thought: the cynicism people have for government in the states (which stems from the same 1980s worldview that treats business and the maximizing of profit as the highest goods in life) is  a sad trend.  While government is never perfect and always inconvenient, it also is absolutely necessary for a healthy and prosperous society.  Americans should be looking for ways to improve government, but this idea that it should be shrunk to the point it can be drowned in a bathtub (or whatever Grover Norquist said) is just juvenile.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I'll just add one more thought: the cynicism people have for government in the states (which stems from the same 1980s worldview that treats business and the maximizing of profit as the highest goods in life) is  a sad trend.  While government is never perfect and always inconvenient, it also is absolutely necessary for a healthy and prosperous society.  Americans should be looking for ways to improve government, but this idea that it should be shrunk to the point it can be drowned in a bathtub (or whatever Grover Norquist said) is just juvenile.  



    If the government can't live with in a budget then it should be cut. We don't need to create an agency or a special commission for everything. All that does is line someone's pocket with my tax dollars. You seem to broad brush all company's philosophies.  The company I work for has over 6 B in annual sales. They take care of everyone that I talked too. Good salary, good benefits lots of perks. My side business I take care of my guys, help them with their insurance, paid vacations and they work hard for me.  I have to live within my means though, simple economics. I expect the same from my government. If they can't do that then it needs to be cut down. If it wasn't my money then I'd have as much say as you would with my business.  It's my money that their wasting, so they have accountability to me and everyone else that is a us citizen.   

     
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    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     


    If the government can't live with in a budget then it should be cut. We don't need to create an agency or a special commission for everything. All that does is line someone's pocket with my tax dollars. You seem to broad brush all company's philosophies.  The company I work for has over 6 B in annual sales. They take care of everyone that I talked too. Good salary, good benefits lots of perks. My side business I take care of my guys, help them with their insurance, paid vacations and they work hard for me.  I have to live within my means though, simple economics. I expect the same from my government. If they can't do that then it needs to be cut down. If it wasn't my money then I'd have as much say as you would with my business.  It's my money that their wasting, so they have accountability to me and everyone else that is a us citizen.   

     




    I didn't broad brush all companies . . . but I did talk about a way of thinking that has emerged in the culture of American business (and among the broader American public, too) since the Reagan years that I think is undeniable.  It is characterized by a few simple beliefs that we've heard repeated multiple times on this thread:

    • Government is always bad, incompetent, and the "enemy" of business
    • Business exists solely for the sake of profit and has no responsibility beyond maximizing profit
    • Whatever business does to maximize profit is good, simply because it represents business doing what business is supposed to do
    • What I own is mine and I should be able to do whatever I want with it regardless of the impact on society
    • Society (and government) has no right to impinge on anything that is mine because it's mine and I acquired it on my own and refuse to acknowledge that society (or government) had anything to do with me acquiring it or that I owe anything back to society or government for creating an environment that may have enabled me to acquire it

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    I'll just add one more thought: the cynicism people have for government in the states (which stems from the same 1980s worldview that treats business and the maximizing of profit as the highest goods in life) is  a sad trend.  While government is never perfect and always inconvenient, it also is absolutely necessary for a healthy and prosperous society.  Americans should be looking for ways to improve government, but this idea that it should be shrunk to the point it can be drowned in a bathtub (or whatever Grover Norquist said) is just juvenile.  

     



    If the government can't live with in a budget then it should be cut. We don't need to create an agency or a special commission for everything. All that does is line someone's pocket with my tax dollars. You seem to broad brush all company's philosophies.  The company I work for has over 6 B in annual sales. They take care of everyone that I talked too. Good salary, good benefits lots of perks. My side business I take care of my guys, help them with their insurance, paid vacations and they work hard for me.  I have to live within my means though, simple economics. I expect the same from my government. If they can't do that then it needs to be cut down. If it wasn't my money then I'd have as much say as you would with my business.  It's my money that their wasting, so they have accountability to me and everyone else that is a us citizen.   

     




    Since YOU (and I) voted for the bozos who misuse our money, AND sionce most laws are written by business lobbyists (often former politicians who YOU - and I - voted for multiple times) then the problem is not "government" but who voters vote for and the role of business in buying the rights to write our laws.

    Follow the money. This is NOT religion. IT is all about money. Systemic changes are required to change the dynamic. That is true in any envormonment where the equilibrium has been manipulated to create a truly bad thing.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    There's an academic side to this discussion and a real life side. If you are in business (but not the CEO of Disney) you make decisions based on the information you have and based on how much money is in your operating account and how much you need to make payroll and your expected cash flow and all of that.

    You can talk academically about Disney and other companies like that and it's interesting, but I am to the CEO of Disney what a single engine Cessna pilot is to Captain Kirk. I'm worried about the wind speed and the conditions on the ground because one little slipup and I'm dead. I'm not thinking about Starfleet or Uhuru's legs, I don't have that luxury.

    Our health insurance carrier was charging us about $11K/month and quoted us almost $15K to renew.  And they basically said that next year it might double. So we have to see if there's a cheaper way to insure our people, or if there are other ways to reduce that cost like pass some of it on to the employees. Or do we make up the $4K a month by letting someone go. I don't want to do any of that, but if you want to keep the doors open it's that type of stuff that you have to consider.  

    I can't tell you whether Obamacare is the cause of those increases, I only know it isn't getting any cheaper. And if you think business is just going to absorb those kinds of increased costs for the good of the country, well good luck with that. You're going to pay for it, with your job, your pay, in the cost of goods, in higher taxes.  

     



    This I agree with.  In any business, but particularly small ones, cash flow is critical, and healthcare costs are a huge problem because they put such pressure on both cash flow and profits. What I don't really get, though, is why American business men hate the idea of government healthcare.  I guess I'd love to see the government take it off my bottom line.  Obama care with exchanges is a path toward that actually, though relying on the private sector to provide the coverage rather than handing it over to the government.  This seems like a win for business, so I'm not sure where all the anti Obama vitriol is coming from.  Maybe people just don't understand it well enough.

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 

     




    Please stop with the knee jerk reactions and boilerplate remarks (and you are not the only one so do not take it as aimed soley at you). You are clearly a smart guy. No need to dumb down your own thoughts. Consider this - THE most efficient health care in this country is medicare - even WITH the abuse which should be stopped cold and strongly. And this is by FAR the most efficient. So if we are talking health care and YOU want tp emphasize efficient (I would too!) then we should be expanding mediare to cover the entore population.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     


    If the government can't live with in a budget then it should be cut. We don't need to create an agency or a special commission for everything. All that does is line someone's pocket with my tax dollars. You seem to broad brush all company's philosophies.  The company I work for has over 6 B in annual sales. They take care of everyone that I talked too. Good salary, good benefits lots of perks. My side business I take care of my guys, help them with their insurance, paid vacations and they work hard for me.  I have to live within my means though, simple economics. I expect the same from my government. If they can't do that then it needs to be cut down. If it wasn't my money then I'd have as much say as you would with my business.  It's my money that their wasting, so they have accountability to me and everyone else that is a us citizen.   

     

     




     

    I didn't broad brush all companies . . . but I did talk about a way of thinking that has emerged in the culture of American business (and among the broader American public, too) since the Reagan years that I think is undeniable.  It is characterized by a few simple beliefs that we've heard repeated multiple times on this thread:

    • Government is always bad, incompetent, and the "enemy" of business
    • Business exists solely for the sake of profit and has no responsibility beyond maximizing profit
    • Whatever business does to maximize profit is good, simply because it represents business doing what business is supposed to do
    • What I own is mine and I should be able to do whatever I want with it regardless of the impact on society
    • Society (and government) has no right to impinge on anything that is mine because it's mine and I acquired it on my own and refuse to acknowledge that society (or government) had anything to do with me acquiring it or that I owe anything back to society or government for creating an environment that may have enabled me to acquire it

     

     



    Government is not the enemy. Exorbitant taxes due to bad government are the enemy.

    with out profit, business stagnates. Stagnating business is ultimately a failing business. In a failing business, everyone loses. 

    Philanthroptic tendencies are greater when profits are greater

    profits are not a bad thing. Jobs are not a lifetime position. A growing business will have changing needs in terms of personnel as technology becomes more efficient. 

    To blame a CEO for profitably running a company, which includes expense issues, which include personnel, healthcare and pension costs, is foolish. 

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to ReturnofBologna's comment:

     

     

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 


    90 % of the money spent on health care in Canada goes to the Bureaucracy,not Doctors nurses,machines ,building Hospitals etc.Anytime the goverment runs anything its always 80 -90 percent wasted.


     




    Did you just write something that makes sense? Come pow mow, with a bartle do? A bartle dee? A bartle do?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGoljjPSyBQ



    Made sense, maybe, but it was must plain wrong:

    Researchers at Harvard Medical School and the Canadian Institute for Health Information, Canada’s quasi-official health statistics agency, analyzed the administrative costs of health insurers, employers’ health benefit programs, hospitals, nursing homes, home care agencies, physicians and other practitioners in the U.S. and Canada. They used data from regulatory agencies and surveys of doctors, and analyzed Census data and detailed cost reports filed by tens of thousands of health institutions in both nations. They found that health care bureaucracy cost Americans $294.3 billion in 1999. The $1,059 per capita spent on health care administration was more than three times the $307 per capita in paperwork costs under Canada’s national health insurance system. The authors found that bureaucracy accounted for at least 31 percent of total U.S. health spending in 1999 vs. 16.7 percent in Canada. Cutting U.S. health bureaucracy costs to the Canadian level would have saved $209 billion in 1999. This study was conducted with grant support from The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The foundation does not endorse the analyses or findings of this report or those of any other independent research projects for which it provides financial support.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     


    If the government can't live with in a budget then it should be cut. We don't need to create an agency or a special commission for everything. All that does is line someone's pocket with my tax dollars. You seem to broad brush all company's philosophies.  The company I work for has over 6 B in annual sales. They take care of everyone that I talked too. Good salary, good benefits lots of perks. My side business I take care of my guys, help them with their insurance, paid vacations and they work hard for me.  I have to live within my means though, simple economics. I expect the same from my government. If they can't do that then it needs to be cut down. If it wasn't my money then I'd have as much say as you would with my business.  It's my money that their wasting, so they have accountability to me and everyone else that is a us citizen.   

     

     




     

    I didn't broad brush all companies . . . but I did talk about a way of thinking that has emerged in the culture of American business (and among the broader American public, too) since the Reagan years that I think is undeniable.  It is characterized by a few simple beliefs that we've heard repeated multiple times on this thread:

    • Government is always bad, incompetent, and the "enemy" of business
    • Business exists solely for the sake of profit and has no responsibility beyond maximizing profit
    • Whatever business does to maximize profit is good, simply because it represents business doing what business is supposed to do
    • What I own is mine and I should be able to do whatever I want with it regardless of the impact on society
    • Society (and government) has no right to impinge on anything that is mine because it's mine and I acquired it on my own and refuse to acknowledge that society (or government) had anything to do with me acquiring it or that I owe anything back to society or government for creating an environment that may have enabled me to acquire it

     

     

     



    Government is not the enemy. Exorbitant taxes due to bad government are the enemy.

     

    with out profit, business stagnates. Stagnating business is ultimately a failing business. In a failing business, everyone loses. 

    Philanthroptic tendencies are greater when profits are greater

    profits are not a bad thing. Jobs are not a lifetime position. A growing business will have changing needs in terms of personnel as technology becomes more efficient. 

    To blame a CEO for profitably running a company, which includes expense issues, which include personnel, healthcare and pension costs, is foolish. 

     

     



    Yet the United States has very low taxes compared with other advanced and highly developed democracies.  Americans complain about "exorbitant" taxes, yet pay very low taxes when compared to other Westerners.  This is not to say that the US government couldn't be more efficient than it is, but its per-capita cost is low compared to many other governments in comparable countries. Big, complex societies tend to have big, complex--and costly--governments.  Americans need to come to grips with this and stop thinking it's still 1813.

     

    No one said profits were bad.  A singular focus on profits to the exclusion of all other considerations and in the absence of reasonable checks and balances from government or unions does not necessarily produce the healthiest society, however.

    As far as the need to cut people, yes, businesses change.  However, a society where people rely on employment to receive health care and where employers cut employees primarily to save the cost of their health care is not headed in the right direction.  This is what's disturbing about many cuts.  They aren't made because the business is changing--they are made purely to reduce health care expenditures.  That would be fine if health care was available in an affordable way other than through employment, but when health care is unaffordable except through employment, those cuts have a very detrimental impact on society.  Disney's bottom line is better, the CEO gets his $40 million in salary and bonuses for the year, but 100s of people end up without healthcare.  A large company like Disney probably spends about $10,000 per employee on health care, so cutting 1,000 workers will save Disney $10 million dollars a year.  That's a lot, but they are paying the CEO $40 million a year.  Cutting his salary to $30 million would save the same and allow them to provide 1,000 people with healthcare and Disney's shareholders would benefit exactly the same.  Tell me again why a system that keeps the pay of one man at $40 million by ending the healthcare of 1,000 workers is a good one?

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to ReturnofBologna's comment:

     

     

     

     

     



    Maybe it's because the government can't run anything.  Motor vehicles is a perfect example.  Giving that much money to the government it will get squandered, stolen, wasted and most likely what services they offer won't be as good as we get now.  The government can't run anything, its really not about understanding. 


    90 % of the money spent on health care in Canada goes to the Bureaucracy,not Doctors nurses,machines ,building Hospitals etc.Anytime the goverment runs anything its always 80 -90 percent wasted.


     




    Did you just write something that makes sense? Come pow mow, with a bartle do? A bartle dee? A bartle do?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGoljjPSyBQ

     



    Made sense, maybe, but it was must plain wrong:

     

    Researchers at Harvard Medical School and the Canadian Institute for Health Information, Canada’s quasi-official health statistics agency, analyzed the administrative costs of health insurers, employers’ health benefit programs, hospitals, nursing homes, home care agencies, physicians and other practitioners in the U.S. and Canada. They used data from regulatory agencies and surveys of doctors, and analyzed Census data and detailed cost reports filed by tens of thousands of health institutions in both nations. They found that health care bureaucracy cost Americans $294.3 billion in 1999. The $1,059 per capita spent on health care administration was more than three times the $307 per capita in paperwork costs under Canada’s national health insurance system. The authors found that bureaucracy accounted for at least 31 percent of total U.S. health spending in 1999 vs. 16.7 percent in Canada. Cutting U.S. health bureaucracy costs to the Canadian level would have saved $209 billion in 1999. This study was conducted with grant support from The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The foundation does not endorse the analyses or findings of this report or those of any other independent research projects for which it provides financial support.



    Heh heh.  Wood Johnson

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: Can't Say I Am Surprised (ESPN)

    FWIW, here is my 2 cents on the Healthcare issue.

     

    Almost everyone here can agree that something should be done regarding healthcare costs in the US.  But just like every other important issue that affect the masses, the institutions who have the most financial interest excercise their influence through the media to change public opinion and through their paid lobbyists in Congress.  Once the lobbists work is complete, the legislation becomes a piece of Garbage that usually doesn't do much to correct the original problem at all.  This is the way the system works.   Follow the money.

     

    The Dodd Frank Bill that was orignially designed to curb the excesses of Wall Street is a prime example of Lobbyists hard at work.  This bill began as a strong piece of legislation and ended up as a watered down piece of kaka.  Follow the money.

     

    On a personal note, a member of my family had a kidney removed and the total charges came to $56,000.  Ironically, the surgeon's portion of the charges was only $3,000.  This leaves $53,000 left over to cover the 4 Day Hospital Stay and incidental charges.    Fortunately, we had excellent Insurance Coverage.   Wow!

     

    I hear a lot about not wanting any of that "Gubmint" healthcare.  I've been on Medicare for a while with millions of other people and have no problem with the way it is run.   Then there are millions of military and retired military who are insured through and or indirectly backed up through government run healthcare. 

     

    Then there are the many people who complain about "Gubmint" run health care who also happen to work for state and local government agencies and have great health insurance - That I help pay for in the form of my Federal, State and Local Taxes.   This is way beyond stupid.

     

    We are the last Western Democracy without a goverment run healthcare system and will continue to be the last hold out for as long as the institutions with the most amount to lose financially are able to weild their influence.

     

    Lastly, have you ever thought of who pays for the media adds against these changes?  Do you thing whoever is paying for these adds are doing so for altruistic reasons?   Puleeeeeze.  

     

     

     
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