Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    Veteran player that can play both CB and much needed Safety.  At 6'2 he would be one of the biggest DB's for the Pats.

    I don't see anyone breaking the bank for 33 year old Tillman, Pats should make a move this offseason.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.


    too old

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    too old

    [/QUOTE]


    Then he'll be here. Bank on it.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    I agree. I see nothing to say that BB will not be looking for the next AWilson signing. AWilson didnt work out. Nothing much lost financially, lets try another guy...of course the issue is we are stuck s hort at S, but I simply do not see BB investing resources ($$$ or draft) in another S over resigning McCourty or Talib. Tillman is exactly what BB is looking for, if he has anything left is another question

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    too old

    [/QUOTE]


    Then he'll be here. Bank on it.

    [/QUOTE]

    yup thats what I;m saying. give him a good cheap deal all gtd so when he's cut or "IR'd" we get the dead money

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point...50/50 s h o t (realling fking annoying bdc, can you not have a guy type out the actual banned words? is it really that hard? and to update it every so often? For fks sake). Not the throw away it's being portrayed as. If you think a player is a bad fit, bring something other than "too old", that's my point. It's just a weak, incomplete argument. I don't want a team of guys all north of 30, but you need to have a good presence to set the standard and lead by example. Someone who is 23 and busts his tail is sometimes a team leader...often not. It's human nature. It's hard for a 29 year old to listen to a 23 year old. Especially when ego and machismo are already such a large part of the sport.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point...50/50 s h o t (realling fking annoying bdc, can you not have a guy type out the actual banned words? is it really that hard? and to update it every so often? For fks sake). Not the throw away it's being portrayed as. If you think a player is a bad fit, bring something other than "too old", that's my point. It's just a weak, incomplete argument. I don't want a team of guys all north of 30, but you need to have a good presence to set the standard and lead by example. Someone who is 23 and busts his tail is sometimes a team leader...often not. It's human nature. It's hard for a 29 year old to listen to a 23 year old. Especially when ego and machismo are already such a large part of the sport.

    [/QUOTE]

    We have veteran guys. Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Wilfork, Nink, McCourty. all of them lead the offense. I'd rather spend some cap money on resigning Talib, Edelman and make a change and add depth at needed spots..

    taking a risk on a guy where we have depth at that position is too risky to me. Resign Talib and we still have 4 good CBs and they take off when Talib is there. we could draft another CB. too risky

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point...50/50 s h o t (realling fking annoying bdc, can you not have a guy type out the actual banned words? is it really that hard? and to update it every so often? For fks sake). Not the throw away it's being portrayed as. If you think a player is a bad fit, bring something other than "too old", that's my point. It's just a weak, incomplete argument. I don't want a team of guys all north of 30, but you need to have a good presence to set the standard and lead by example. Someone who is 23 and busts his tail is sometimes a team leader...often not. It's human nature. It's hard for a 29 year old to listen to a 23 year old. Especially when ego and machismo are already such a large part of the sport.

    [/QUOTE]

    Great post, and considering we are one of the youngest teams in the league with a defense made up primarily of 1st 2nd and 3rd round draft picks, it's nice to have some veteran leaders mixed in. With that said, I watched Tillman a couple times last year and he looks to have lost 2 steps...might have been because he was heavily injured though. Surely worth bringing in for a visit.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    He is better than anyone we got here!  ( besides Talib)

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Veteran player that can play both CB and much needed Safety.  At 6'2 he would be one of the biggest DB's for the Pats.

    I don't see anyone breaking the bank for 33 year old Tillman, Pats should make a move this offseason.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not much cap space this year so for the most part you can forget anybody coming here until you get news of a few contracts being renegotiated.  The Hernandez deal bit the Pats in the shorts.  I'll be happy when that's over. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to garytx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Veteran player that can play both CB and much needed Safety.  At 6'2 he would be one of the biggest DB's for the Pats.

    I don't see anyone breaking the bank for 33 year old Tillman, Pats should make a move this offseason.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not much cap space this year so for the most part you can forget anybody coming here until you get news of a few contracts being renegotiated.  The Hernandez deal bit the Pats in the shorts.  I'll be happy when that's over. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That why I didn't say the Pats should make a move for Revis.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point...50/50 s h o t (realling fking annoying bdc, can you not have a guy type out the actual banned words? is it really that hard? and to update it every so often? For fks sake). Not the throw away it's being portrayed as. If you think a player is a bad fit, bring something other than "too old", that's my point. It's just a weak, incomplete argument. I don't want a team of guys all north of 30, but you need to have a good presence to set the standard and lead by example. Someone who is 23 and busts his tail is sometimes a team leader...often not. It's human nature. It's hard for a 29 year old to listen to a 23 year old. Especially when ego and machismo are already such a large part of the sport.

    [/QUOTE]

    The secondary is pretty weak right now, much rather have Tillman at safety then Gregory.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point...50/50 s h o t (realling fking annoying bdc, can you not have a guy type out the actual banned words? is it really that hard? and to update it every so often? For fks sake). Not the throw away it's being portrayed as. If you think a player is a bad fit, bring something other than "too old", that's my point. It's just a weak, incomplete argument. I don't want a team of guys all north of 30, but you need to have a good presence to set the standard and lead by example. Someone who is 23 and busts his tail is sometimes a team leader...often not. It's human nature. It's hard for a 29 year old to listen to a 23 year old. Especially when ego and machismo are already such a large part of the sport.

    [/QUOTE]

    Great post, and considering we are one of the youngest teams in the league with a defense made up primarily of 1st 2nd and 3rd round draft picks, it's nice to have some veteran leaders mixed in. With that said, I watched Tillman a couple times last year and he looks to have lost 2 steps...might have been because he was heavily injured though. Surely worth bringing in for a visit.

    [/QUOTE]


    What do 33 year old guys and injuries have in common? They both will be praised by you once they are signed here.


    We're gonna F-I-G-H-T
    We're gonna S-C-O-R-E
    We're gonna fight
    We're gonna score
    We're gonna win tonight! WOOHOO

    Don't let that step lost ruin our time!

    We the best on Mr. Kraft's dime!

    You'll make it truechamp, just send that cheer leading resume into little Jonathan K. asap!

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

    [/QUOTE]

    If the team were to offer Talib 5-6 million a year and lose him to a club willing to pay 7-8 million a year... and signed Tillman for 2-3 million a year not much guaranteed, that would free up 3 million for the Pats to use elsewhere. I would rather have Tillman (3m) and Alex Mack (7m) counting for 10 million on next years cap than lose Talib, spend his $ on the 'next in line' younger CB (say Sam Shields or Walter Thurmond) and giving that CB 7-8m and Wendell 2-3m.  

    Tillman would allow the Pats to draft another DB, either at S or CB and mentor that player along with Ryan, Dennard and Harmon. He's got 6-7 more years of experience than McCourty and Arrington and would be good for them as well. Talib was respected but didn't strike me as much of a mentor/coach on the field.

    Prior to this year Tillman was rarely hurt. Sure it is a big red flag when he gets hurt at age 32-33, but I would see him being able to give the kind of production Ty Law did those 2-3 years after NE let him go. Ages 32-34 Ty played every game and had 16 interceptions over 3 seasons. The secondary played much of this season without Talib, adding a veteran like Tillman in his place, along with another promising rookie and growth by Harmon, Ryan and Dennard would be a solid situation in my opinion if it meant upgrades elsewhere.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

    [/QUOTE]

    If the team were to offer Talib 5-6 million a year and lose him to a club willing to pay 7-8 million a year... and signed Tillman for 2-3 million a year not much guaranteed, that would free up 3 million for the Pats to use elsewhere. I would rather have Tillman (3m) and Alex Mack (7m) counting for 10 million on next years cap than lose Talib, spend his $ on the 'next in line' younger CB (say Sam Shields or Walter Thurmond) and giving that CB 7-8m and Wendell 2-3m.  

    Tillman would allow the Pats to draft another DB, either at S or CB and mentor that player along with Ryan, Dennard and Harmon. He's got 6-7 more years of experience than McCourty and Arrington and would be good for them as well. Talib was respected but didn't strike me as much of a mentor/coach on the field.

    Prior to this year Tillman was rarely hurt. Sure it is a big red flag when he gets hurt at age 32-33, but I would see him being able to give the kind of production Ty Law did those 2-3 years after NE let him go. Ages 32-34 Ty played every game and had 16 interceptions over 3 seasons. The secondary played much of this season without Talib, adding a veteran like Tillman in his place, along with another promising rookie and growth by Harmon, Ryan and Dennard would be a solid situation in my opinion if it meant upgrades elsewhere.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree on all points!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.


    The Patriots are going to try and keep Talib, we know this. They will do it in their way, which will be a 'prove it' incentive contract. We are not going to franchise him at 11.3m.

    The Pats offer him should/could be something like this:

    2 years 10 million, with 6 million guaranteed. 

    - 4 million signing bonus (on '14 cap) 2m guaranteed $ on '15 cap (his hit if he's cut) 

    - 250k for every game he plays after game 6 (so another 2.5 million)

    - 500k for good conduct incentives met (no tardiness, arrests, traffic violations, etc.)

    - 500k for the pro-bowl

    - 750k if finishes the year healthy/active for playoffs

    - 250k if he does not leave and be unable to return to playoff game with injury

    - Talib must return 1 million of '2 million bonus owed in '15 if he is on season ending IR before week 6, 750k if he is on IR before week 10, 500k before regular season finale and 250k if knocked out unable to return in playoffs.

    Basically if he has the season he had this year Talib would earn 250k weeks 11-16 (1.5m) his 1 million conduct and pro-bowl salary and 750k for finishing the regular season healthy. So 8.25 million. Then be docked 250k of his '15 bonus for being knocked out of the Denver game.

    Then repeat that entire bonus situation again, with only a 1.75m cap hit year 2 of this deal. If Talib were healthy for something like 25 of 32 games over 2 years, including BOTH playoff trips, he would automatically be given a player option of like 3 years 24 million with 10 million signing bonus or the choice to hit free agency.

    Seem pretty fair to me. Healthy, well-behaved and producing like a pro-bowl player these next two years gets him 20 million plus the 3/24 option with 10 more guaranteed. But if some team were to give him a 5 year 40 million offer with 15 million guaranteed right now, we probably lose him. 

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    too old

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed. 5 years ago, sure.  Always been a fan of his back to his early seasons paired with Vasher in Chicago. Always thought Vasher was overrated, Tillman underrated.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    agreed on that too

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    What about Brady choke jobs? Because for every younger player that has been good here that made the team over the older vet player in a changing league, the player who was dirt cheap to begin with, I can name a Brady horrendous or mediocre postseason game.

    [/QUOTE]


    yes yes Brady choke jobs have been an issue, sure.

    i just saying that I don't think in our current situation we can risk bringing in a vet CB until we get Talib, Edelman, safety , DL and OL depth solved.

    if June rolls around and Tillman is still somehow a FA then sure make a go at him for vet min

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ted Washington - Too old

    Roman Phifer - Too old

    Rodney Harrison - Too old, lost a step

    Moss - Too old, lost a step

    Keith Byars - Too old

    Unless people are in their prime, don't sign them!!!!

    Oh wait, you need veterans on a team as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    do you also want MtHrul to drop his list of Veteran busts?

    its a 50/50 ratio trying to bring in guys like that and this year we dont have the space to risk that. Talib, Edelman and other spots need to be looked at first

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point...50/50 s h o t (realling fking annoying bdc, can you not have a guy type out the actual banned words? is it really that hard? and to update it every so often? For fks sake). Not the throw away it's being portrayed as. If you think a player is a bad fit, bring something other than "too old", that's my point. It's just a weak, incomplete argument. I don't want a team of guys all north of 30, but you need to have a good presence to set the standard and lead by example. Someone who is 23 and busts his tail is sometimes a team leader...often not. It's human nature. It's hard for a 29 year old to listen to a 23 year old. Especially when ego and machismo are already such a large part of the sport.

    [/QUOTE]

    Great post, and considering we are one of the youngest teams in the league with a defense made up primarily of 1st 2nd and 3rd round draft picks, it's nice to have some veteran leaders mixed in. With that said, I watched Tillman a couple times last year and he looks to have lost 2 steps...might have been because he was heavily injured though. Surely worth bringing in for a visit.

    [/QUOTE]


    What do 33 year old guys and injuries have in common? They both will be praised by you once they are signed here.


    We're gonna F-I-G-H-T
    We're gonna S-C-O-R-E
    We're gonna fight
    We're gonna score
    We're gonna win tonight! WOOHOO

    Don't let that step lost ruin our time!

    We the best on Mr. Kraft's dime!

    You'll make it truechamp, just send that cheer leading resume into little Jonathan K. asap!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Just keep telling us how bad this team really is! After BB retires you might finally get your wish.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Charles Tillman would be a great fit in NE.

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The Patriots are going to try and keep Talib, we know this. They will do it in their way, which will be a 'prove it' incentive contract. We are not going to franchise him at 11.3m.

    The Pats offer him should/could be something like this:

    2 years 10 million, with 6 million guaranteed. 

    - 4 million signing bonus (on '14 cap) 2m guaranteed $ on '15 cap (his hit if he's cut) 

    - 250k for every game he plays after game 6 (so another 2.5 million)

    - 500k for good conduct incentives met (no tardiness, arrests, traffic violations, etc.)

    - 500k for the pro-bowl

    - 750k if finishes the year healthy/active for playoffs

    - 250k if he does not leave and be unable to return to playoff game with injury

    - Talib must return 1 million of '2 million bonus owed in '15 if he is on season ending IR before week 6, 750k if he is on IR before week 10, 500k before regular season finale and 250k if knocked out unable to return in playoffs.

    Basically if he has the season he had this year Talib would earn 250k weeks 11-16 (1.5m) his 1 million conduct and pro-bowl salary and 750k for finishing the regular season healthy. So 8.25 million. Then be docked 250k of his '15 bonus for being knocked out of the Denver game.

    Then repeat that entire bonus situation again, with only a 1.75m cap hit year 2 of this deal. If Talib were healthy for something like 25 of 32 games over 2 years, including BOTH playoff trips, he would automatically be given a player option of like 3 years 24 million with 10 million signing bonus or the choice to hit free agency.

    Seem pretty fair to me. Healthy, well-behaved and producing like a pro-bowl player these next two years gets him 20 million plus the 3/24 option with 10 more guaranteed. But if some team were to give him a 5 year 40 million offer with 15 million guaranteed right now, we probably lose him. 

    [/QUOTE]

    never happens in a million years. Talib is too good. Other teams will be all over him.

     

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