Cheaters?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Cheaters?

    Just read Mike Reiss and see that the Ravens and Raiders both have been caught by the NFL in rule violations. It seems that they "weren't following the guidelines of what can take place at those OTAs". That sure sounds at least as serious as taping a practice session to me.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots

    Just wondering when the league is going to announce the $750,000 fines and forteitures of first round picks for both teams? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    But they don't win Championships, aren't in the media everyday, don't have legit superstar athletes nor a coach with a seriosu personality; thus no one will care. Don't you know how sports media, especially ESPN, works!?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    It is just like the pictures of the jets filming right after we were caught, it just disappeared and was never spoken of again.  That stuff only matters when u are a winning team.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    yep if the pats were involved they'd be calling it ota gate- 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Are you really likening illegal video taping another team during a regular season game to excessive hours of practice etc in June?  Posted by PatStats


    Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. We taped practice sessions. These two teams engaged in other "illegal" activities during practice sessions. Since when are there "degrees" of illegal activities in the NFL? How many times did we hear the mantra that "rules are rules and infractions are infractions, no matter how minor" when this whole thing was going on?

    I'm not getting drawn into arguing this whole thing over again but the two issues are identical. Sorry you can't see that.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from datdude401. Show datdude401's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    It is just like the pictures of the jets filming right after we were caught, it just disappeared and was never spoken of again.  That stuff only matters when u are a winning team.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    I thought they caught the Jets during a preseason game. And then snitched on us when we returned the favor.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    But they don't win Championships, aren't in the media everyday, don't have legit superstar athletes nor a coach with a seriosu personality; thus no one will care. Don't you know how sports media, especially ESPN, works!?
    Posted by freediro


         Wrong. The Patriots were standing in the way of the Indianapolis Colts. The Raiders and Ravens were not.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    I still have a hard time referring to stealing signals as "cheating."

    That's all the Pats were doing--and they weren't even using the tapes during the games (Matt Walsh confirmed this). They were using them for scouting purposes later on (most likely to scout their own offensive tendencies to see if they were giving away any secrets with their formations).

    Stealing signals continues to go on in every football game played in America to this very day.

    Spygate: the most overblown bunch of nonsense, ever, starting with Goodell's ridiculous over-punishment and continuing with the media hysteria because they smelled Belichick's blood in the water, and most of them hate Belichick and were looking to exact a little revenge against him.

    A big bunch of nothing; that's what it was.

    Anyone who's followed football for more than 5 minutes knows that this kind of thing has been going on since the days of leather helmets.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

           I remember seeing the  Patriots film clip that "someone" stole from the league office evidence room and gave to Fox sports.

       It clearly showed there was a unidentified camera man filming  from the  Jets side line.

     


     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    I cannot fathom why NE Patriots fans would resurrect this instance of ancient history.  The Pats broke the rules, the team and the coach paid the price, the NFL considers the incident closed.  Egad, there has got to be more interesting and timely stuff to rant about.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    Of course - there is that little issue about the pats being caught and warned, THEN the memo being distributed leaguewide, THEN being caught again. 

    Cheating and thumbing your nose at the commissioner over it.  Did the other teams do that?

    TP - You'd have a point about the commish wanting the colts to be the darling of the league IF the Colts hadn't already kicked the Pats (fill in the blank) in 05, twice in 06 (3 in a row), and won their SB BEFORE the Pats were caught AGAIN after being caught, warned, and disregared the subsequent league wide memo.  Yep, you would have a point there. 

    Russ, I answer your question about the advantage gained from the location. 
    1.  Is there a limit to the number of cameras that can be used in a game from legal positions by teams?  If the answer is yes, then using a camera that would otherwise film play on the field for signals would take away from most important video work. 
    2.  Is there a question about how much magnification these cameras can have?  If so, then a camera used from very far away (like the position of the game filiming) might not get a good view of the signals.  Additionally, the angle may be poor.  
    3.  NE claimed they never used the film during the game.  Do we trust that?  It was going on for 6 years.  The pats admitted this.
    4.  By videoing signal, that tape can be spliced with the game tape to more efficiently evaluate what the signals mean based on the play that actually took place. 
    5.  Filming signals is an exponentially more efficient way to gather signal information than using either pencil and paper or a still shot camera.  Video never misses any signal information. It does not rely on writing. It can be spliced with the game tape.   
    6.  If it wasn't advantageous, then there would have been no reason for Belichick to do it.  Belichick does not seem to me to be a guy who wastes energy on unuseful things.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from passedball. Show passedball's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Of course - there is that little issue about the pats being caught and warned, THEN the memo being distributed leaguewide, THEN being caught again.  Cheating and thumbing your nose at the commissioner over it.  Did the other teams do that?


    Yes. The NY Jets did it. They got the memo. They taped the previous game. They taped the game they called the Patriots on. Then they taped the following week. How ballsy was that?, or was it because they knew Goodell would do nothing to them? There were links on Youtube to video of the Jets video taping those three games. The evidence was there for everyone to see, including the commissioner, but the NY media was so intent on attacking the Patriots they left a huge story untold, or was that by design? There was also a NY Post article about the Jets starting the whole video taping issue. There is absolutely no excuse or reason that Goodell didn't come down on the Jets, especially after his wife stole the alleged tape & he couldn't figure out who stole it out of the two people living in the house. The only reason for no discipline on the tape being given to FOX, other than Goodell being crooked, is that maybe FOX made that tape & claimed it was given to them by an unnamed source.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    whoa underoos....i cant wait to hear your comeback...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    Look, the bottom line here is that this situation was mishandled by the league office from Day 1.

    Goodell, by issuing that Draconian and ludicrously harsh penalty, basically gave the media a free hand to pronounce what the Pats did to be the most severe rules violation in the history of the NFL---greater even than Denver and San Francisco fielding illegal rosters (due to salary cap violations) and proceeding to win Super Bowls with them.

    The media hate Belichick, so they took that ball and ran with it until they all fell over from exhaustion.

    Then Goodell made matters worse by destroying the tapes because some idiot in the NFL offices leaked the tape of the Jets' game to Fox Sports....what he should have done was find out who that idiot was and then fired his behind. Destroying the tapes only feeded the media beast and guys like Easterbrook harped on that for the next six months...."what else are they not telling us???!!!!!!"

    The other problem with the case is that it's still somewhat unclear, to this day, what the rule actually states, because the media usually only cited the wording of the memo from the NFL in their articles, and not the wording as it actually appears in the rulebook. The memo clearly takes some liberties with the actual wording of the rule, and applies a set of standards, arbitrarily, that do not exist in the rulebook.

    I've always believed that if the Pats wanted to be "bad soldiers" in the wake of all this mess, they would have had their lawyers challenge the validity of the memo in court, and they would have won, because NFL bylaws clearly state that rules changes can only be made if approved by a vote of NFL club members (or by Polian's Competition Committee, I believe)--they can't be made by executive fiat from the Commissioner's office.

    Belichick was wrong to ignore the memo, but then again, he probably laughed when he read it because he certainly knows what goes on in the NFL and what other teams are doing and have done in the past. Let's face it, he didn't invent filming signals; he had to learn that from somebody else since it's been going on dating back to before Belichick ever became a head coach in Cleveland (Jimmy Johnson confirmed this). BB also knew that other teams had filmed signals before and none of them had ever been "turned in" by another team. His biggest mistake, IMO, was doing it against Mangini and the Jets in New Jersey, because Mangini was dying to embarrass him in any way he could and BB should have been more aware of that fact.

    In the end, if Goodell had issued a normal punishment--maybe a 4th round pick and a $50K fine--the whole thing would have gone away quickly.

    His over-punishment, which, I'm convinced, was due mainly to his being ticked off about the memo being ignored, caused the entire thing to spiral way out of control.

    To punish the Pats that severely for a minor rules infraction, when Denver and SF were given what amounted to slaps on the wrist for violating the salary cap--the single most important factor in producing the "parity" the league desires--sent a very bad message and set off the entire firestorm.






     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    TP - You'd have a point about the commish wanting the colts to be the darling of the league IF the Colts hadn't already kicked the Pats (fill in the blank) in 05, twice in 06 (3 in a row), and won their SB BEFORE the Pats were caught AGAIN... 
    Posted by underdoggggg


         Telling a fraction of the story, as usual. The media and the NFL both wanted to see the Colts established as the flagship franchise for the league. The media was having orgasms over Peyton Manning, and wanted so badly to tell the story of how "The Pius One", Tony Dungy, became the first African-american coach to win a SB. The league had already allowed Bill Polian to hijack its' Rules Committee, allowing him to intimidate officials, and give his team a competitive edge. Why would the league allow such a clear conflict of interest? 

         In 2005, the Colts did not stop the Pats. Both teams made the play-offs, with the Pats losing at Denver, and Indy choking at home to the Pittsburgh Steelers...despite getting considerable help from the referees.  

         In 2006, biased officiating and injuries proved to be too much for the Pats to overcome, as the Colts were handed the AFC Championship. Thereafter, winning the SB was a mere formality, as the offense-less, Rex Grossman lead Bears were perhaps the weakest team to participate in a SB ever.

         The happenings of 2006 so infuriated BB, that he built a juggernaut of a team in 2007. The media and the league gasped at the monster of a team that BB had created. Furthermore, the future of the Pats was bright, as they possessed two #1 draft choices in the upcoming 2008 draft. Something had to be done to stop the Patriots...as both the league and the media realized that the Pats were showing up the Jets, and standing in the way of their loveable Colts. 

         As a result, the  NY media plotted with Jets' coach Eric Mangini, and manufactured the so-called "spy-gate scandal". The media and the league did what they could to destroy the Patriots, and BB...by dragging them through the mud, and levying unprecedented fines...as well as stripping them of one of their two 2008 #1 draft choices.

         Nonetheless, the Pats persevered, and, despite biased officiating, handled the Colts...who would eventually choke again at home in the play-offs, this time to the San Diego Chargers.

         In the SB, on the eve of the big game, the media struck again, using a triumvirate of the senile Senator Arlen Specter, a disgruntled former Pats' employee named Walsh, and an obscure, dumb, but ambitious Herald reporter named John Tomase, to set off the "Mother of Distractions"...which would be  referred to as "spygate II".  The scheme took its' toll, as the Pats played their worst game of the season, and lost in the closing seconds to a hot NY Giants team.      
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    In Response to Re: Cheaters? : In the SB, on the eve of the big game, the media struck again, using a triumvirate of the senile Senator Arlen Specter, a disgruntled former Pats' employee named Walsh, and an obscure, dumb, but ambitious Herald reporter named John Tomase, to set off the "Mother of Distractions"...which would be  referred to as "spygate II".  The scheme took its' toll, as the Pats played their worst game of the season, and lost in the closing seconds to a hot NY Giants team.      
    Posted by TexasPat3


    The Pats publicly deny it (because that's what they do) but I'll always believe that the Tomase story was a distraction that night.

    It's no excuse for losing the game, and certainly, the Giants' incredible defensive effort had a lot to do with it.....but during that entire game the Pats just seemed to be "out of it" (I've also read that Belichick and others in the organization spent hours on the phone with the P.R. people crafting a response to the Herald story on the night before the game--that was time they could have spent tweaking the game plan, etc.)

    It was just a surreal Super Bowl Sunday.

    I remember, after the Tomase story ran that morning and the media firestorm began, thinking that the Super Bowl experience was already ruined for me, and that was 6 hours before the kickoff and 10 hours before the helmet catch.

    I'll never forgive Tomase or the Herald for that.

    I don't know if it made a difference in that game or not, but I'll always believe that it was at least a minor distraction.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Yup. Nods head. Hey Underoos: Why is Bill Polian still on the Competition Committee? He sure likes to volunteer his time a lot, doesn't he? What is your opinion of him accosting a Meadowlands employee in an elevator? Finally, how does it feel to have the NFL admit "faceguarding" was not committed by Ellis Hobbs on that 3rd down play which gave Indy a 1st goal and subsequent TD, instead of 3 points? That was your only big win against NE in the playoffs, at home.  The only one and it wasn't even legit. We won't get into Matt Cassel almost beatin Gomer in 2008 or last year's Darius Butler phantom PI call to assist in wins AT HOME. Take a look at the sources of the witch hunt too: NY Jets Media Arlen Specter Do people know how Arlen Specter became a name in the Philadelphia area?  He took on a case to defend a psycho murdered named  Ira Einhorn, and got him set free into Canada and then France for 15 years. Einhorn had a chopped up girls body in a trunk of his apartment, yet Specter has the spine to find ways to get Einhorn, supported by the heir to the Molson beer fortune, totally off and set free.  Specter took the case to get notoriety and then he ran for Senate on the back of that in 1981. All an agenda.  All about $$.
    Posted by russgriswold



    Man, the faceguarding call was bad and the NFL apologize for it, but to me, the worst calls in that game were the phantom Troy Brown offensive P.I. call that choked off a Patriots' drive deep in Indy territory late in the 2nd quarter with the score already 21-3 (at minimum, they bleed out the rest of the first half clock and kick a field goal there to go up 24-3 at the half); and the Reche Caldwell mugging in the end zone on 3rd and goal that was ignored, with the score tied at 31. If they throw the flag there, it's going to be 38-31 when Manning and the Colts get the ball back, not 34-31. Even if Indy scores a TD there, Brady and the offense would then have had 1 minute and three timeouts to get the ball into Gostkowski's VERY long indoor field goal range---those two calls changed the course of the game more than the faceguarding call IMO; and both calls/non-calls were absolutely dreadful.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

      Remember the Patriots where not fined for filming hand signals. 
    They where fined for having a team employee filming from the side lines.

     As you can see the Jets also had one of their employees filming during the same game.

     Godell had positive proof that the Jets where filming but he choose to ignore it.

     I think that is why Goddell choose to destroy the Patriots film.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Agreed completely. I stayed away from those because the t.NFL didn't admit they were incorrect. If you notice though, those 3 calls all went against NE AND most importantly had point swinging effects against NE.  They weren't at the 40 yard line or something and a holding call.   It was 12 points, mimnum, too. Minimum. If you add in a FG/TD differential on the faceguarding call, that's 4 more points for a minimum total of 16 swining to Indy. Marlin Jackson does not turn for the ball and impedes Caldwell.  And Troy Brown's phantom "pick" call was nothing more than him running his route. It's one thing to have a Holdijng call, a false start, maybe a clean pass interference call that's obvious, etc, etc, etc,. But, to see these calls halt momentum or just be competeley botched in a title game???? Smells. Smells REALLY bad.
    Posted by russgriswold


    I wouldn't go so far as to call it a conspiracy against the Pats in that game. I just really, really think that whenever the refs go into Indianapolis for a big game (be it a regular season game or a playoff game, in particular) they are intimidated by something.

    I don't know whether it's the crowd noise (both real and pumped in...), or the presence of the Competition Committee's Grand Wizard sitting high up in the press box, but for whatever reason, the refs seem to be scared to call games at Indianapolis properly.

    Remember, the Pats are not the only team to be completely jobbed by the refs there in a post-season game. The officials did all they could to take away Pittsburgh's playoff win in 2005 and the Chargers' 2007 playoff win there. And the officiating in the 2007 regular season game between the Pats and Colts--both undefeated at the time--speaks for itself. 

    I just think the refs are cowed by something when they go into Indy for a big game, and their performance in those games shows this time and again.

    The phantom P.I. call against Butler last season which got the Colts back into the game with under 5 minutes to go is just the latest example.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    In Response to Re: Cheaters? : I think people toss around "conspiracy" to try to disparage the reality of something that just might be very true, or in this case, a GM's influence on a competition committe not having any effect whatsoever with what you just said. It's not a conspiracy. It's a guy was a GM of a team that lost 4 straight SBs and now has lost FIVE total in his career. This might explain why he assumed a power position in the Competition Committee, something he hadn't done before arriving in Indy. What you just said (internal pressure) towards officials to call games a certain way on their home field absolutely had an effect in those games. Case in point: In 2007, NE was flagged for 12 penalties for 147 yards.  Mind you, this is a BB team, perenially disciplined and one of the least penalized teams in the NFL. All of  a sudden, they go crazy to the tune of 12 penalties worth 147 yards?  Really? Hmm. NE was able to escape that game with a win, but you can't tell me a 12 penalty to 4 advantage for Indy wasn't a factor in that game. Polian did all he could to see NE lose their first game of the year in that historical NE season.
    Posted by russgriswold



    You know, the biggest kick I got out of all the overreaction to Spygate three years ago was when Don Shula piped up about it late in the season when his '72 Dolphins record was in serious trouble. When Spygate broke in September, Shula laughed it off as no big deal (surely he had done similar things and he knew that others had as well)--but as the Pats kept winning and winning Shula got more nervous about the '72 Dolphins 17-0 record being threatened, and so he suddenly changed his mind about Spygate and started saying, "well, you know, they cheated to get where they are," (paraphrasing, of course).

    The irony? Don Shula was the Bill Polian of his day. He was on the Competition Committee (and dominated it) for years, and the Dolphins always, always, ALWAYS got whatever they wanted from the NFL, no matter what the issue, during the years Shula was on the Committee.

    There's absolutely no question that having a coach or GM or another club executive on the CC is an unfair competitive advantage for those few teams that do have that privilege.

    Why the NFL doesn't go with an autonomous body of "neutral" members for that committee is beyond me. How hard would it be to find 12 guys with extensive football backgrounds who don't currently hold paid positions with NFL teams?

    It just looks BAD (it looked REALLY bad when the Colts had both Polian AND Dungy on the committee at one point).
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    whoa - firestorm.  Sorry for creating this.  No way for me to respond to as much of this as possible before this evening. 

    I will say this - Sam, you are correct.  In my comments, my first two points did not answer how the pats gained an advantage.  They asked questions relevant to the situation the answers to which I don't know.  I think, however, they could have some relevance either for or against the pats if we knew their answers. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    Russ, I answer your question about the advantage gained from the location. 
    1.  Is there a limit to the number of cameras that can be used in a game from legal positions by teams?  If the answer is yes
    This isn't answering a question
    You are correct, but I want to know the answer.  Are there limits to the number of cameras a team may use?  I know that to use a camera from a "generally unauthorized position" (such as the endzone) requires permission from the opposing team.  If there are limits  then it suggests that the pats were using cameras beyond the allowable limit. 

    2.  Is there a question about how much magnification these cameras can have?  If so,
    This isn't answering a question
    You are correct, but if there is a limited amount of magnification allowed then its possible that a good picture of the signals would not be available from such distant position. 

    3.  NE claimed they never used the film during the game.  Do we trust that?  It was going on for 6 years.  The pats admitted this.

    This isn't answering a question, in fact it's you guessing. You say it was going on for six years, do you mean it was going on for six years after the league sent a memo to all teams to cease this activity?
    It is entirely possible that the pats did use the tape during the game (at halftime).  If they did and were able to decipher anything during that time, then it could be used in the second half.  Even if someone was working on it through the 3rd Quarter (Ernie Adams) the team might have something for the 4th quarter. 

    Regardless, the team could still use the information by splicing it with the game tape to learn what a team might do in the next game the two teams played. 


    4.  By videoing signal, that tape can be spliced with the game tape to more efficiently evaluate what the signals mean based on the play that actually took place.
     
    Is this you're opinion or can you attach an artticle that speaks to this?

    There is no need to attach an article.  The fact is that 2 videos can be spliced together to make one.  Its called film editing. 

    5.  Filming signals is an exponentially more efficient way to gather signal information than using either pencil and paper or a still shot camera.  Video never misses any signal information. It does not rely on writing. It can be spliced with the game tape.

    So why do coaches still cover their mouthes when calling in plays today? If nobody tapes and the pen and paper isn't reliable why bother?

    The issue wasn't with offensive coaches.  It was with defensive coaches' signals.  Offensive coaches have to speak their information to the QB, they don't want people trying to read lips so they cover their mouths.  Defensive players didn't have coach to helmet communication.  The coaches used hand signals to send defensive play information to players.  that could not be covered and that was what Belichick was attempting to decipher. 

    I don't know how much teams do bother since (IMO) pen and paper are unreliable.  Besides (because of the pats transgression) there is now coach to helmet communication on the defensive side of the ball. 


    You're a fraud, you can't stand that the Pats and Tom Brady ruined your boys career and the Colts chance to win more important games.
    Now they have to play in Foxboro again for a few years. TB/PM will be retiring by the time you see a regular season game back at the Mucasdome.  

    Emotion based comment.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Cheaters?:
    Just read Mike Reiss and see that the Ravens and Raiders both have been caught by the NFL in rule violations. It seems that they "weren't following the guidelines of what can take place at those OTAs". That sure sounds at least as serious as taping a practice session to me. http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots Just wondering when the league is going to announce the $750,000 fines and forteitures of first round picks for both teams? 
    Posted by unclealfie


    who gives a flying fuc*. if that's all you got to offer talk this junk at the colts message board. they may be cheaters, but the're not chokers
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    You have filled up this page with nothing more than convaluted junk, and still failed to answer the direct question and to state how it is an advantage.

    You have proven to do what I wanted.

    It's not an advantage. WHen confronted on this topic:

    1. You have not done your homework.
    I have a pretty good idea of what I think on the subject.  I am comfortable with my opinion. 
    2. Don't have facts.
    The facts are that the pats were punished for breaking rules that the commission considered a calculated effort to undermine the rules. 
    3. Fail to clearly state how it is a definitive advantage over another team doing the same act within the rules.
    Who said "another team" was doing it.  We are aware that there may have been another "team or two" doing it along with the Pats.  Because of these few teams not following the rules, the commish felt the need to send a memo to the teams.  Do you know of any other team doing what the pats did after the memo was sent?  No.  The pats were warned and chose not to listen. 


    You even just said "caught" and "caught again".

    Caught doing what?  There is not calculation here.   It's a portion of a rule they didn't follow, for whatever reason, and were fined.
    You have to come to the reality that the Pats were notified to stop taping on the sidelines and chose not to do that.  There was absolute calculation in it.  They chose to continue taping signals in order to gain an advantage (as the commish said, and not for "whatever reason" LOL) were caught and punished. 

    And yes, we DO trust that, because Matt Walsh, the villain in this thing, UNDER OATH, said he they never took the tapes out of the camcorder.
    No - you trust because you are a blind belichick fan.  If the tapes were never taken out of the camcorder then how many cameras did they have?  The league recovered 6 tapes (right?) and the team was doing this for 6 years.  Besides was Walsh with these tapes 24 hrs a day?  Was he entrusted with ensuring the tapes did not leave the recorder? Not based on the way Belichick described him.

    This was stated by BB in Sept 2007 and corroborated every every video coordinator who ever worked for them. FACT.
    What purpose would it serve any of these people to say otherwise?

    So, even when facts point to this being the greatest witch hunt ever, you still pretend these facts somehow point to someting sinister and deceptive.
    The facts don't point to your opinion.  If they did the general public would not agree with the punishment. 

    You are a loser.  That's what is obvious. Your team is a loser more often than not when it counts, so you need someone to blame.
    Ouch.  I win.

    You are so stupid, you're a miracle.
    Ouch.  I win. 

    "Camera maginicification"? Are you for real here?
    No answer? 

    "Camera maginification"? Now NE has magical cameras?
    Incoherent questions.

    So, your answer to why NE had an advantage and hence "cheated" is because a guy on the field has a better camera angle from the SAME angle, as compared to him being, say 20 feet back but just in the stands from the NFL specified location?
    My opinion is that NE used the information to learn (illicitly) as much as they could about the opposition for their benefit.  The commissioner in his statement confirmed that.  I believe the NFL specified location is well above the field with about a 50 yard view of the field where the game tapes are recorded. 

    So, distance, in your opinion, is how they cheated?  lol
    I don't know the answer to this.  I am asking.  Do you have the answer?  I guess not.

    Every team is allowed to film.  Hence, why any team has been taping one another for decades, NOT just NE.
    Yes they film the game on the field, and they use that tape to evaluate their team and the other team for future reference.  Specifically filming a coaches signals from the sidelines is different. 

    WHy did Pitt allow NE to tape them in the 2001 AFC title game in the stands in Pittsburgh?
    Did they allow it from the endzone?  It came out from all of this that occassionally a team will ask another team if they may film the game from the endzone (different perspective of the field). 

    Because it's legal, you idiot!!  
    Ouch.  I win. 

    You find it normal that NFL personnel sat there next to Walsh for 3 hours every game NE decided to film an opponent and didn't know their own rules, do ya?
    What NFL officials, other than the game refs are on the field?

    Do ya?   I'd say that's pretty impropable for a multi billion dollar entity to not know their own rules for such a long period  of time, wouldn't you, Underoos?
    I'd say that Belichick was trying to subvert the rules (as stated by the commish).  the commish put out a memo specifically about it.  Why do you think Belichick consciously disregarded it?

    Note how the tapes on the road are from the field and not from a specified spot.  This means BB never asked where his cameraman should be or teams never provided him a spot.  Either way, he was wrong not to follow the exact rule, but the act is absolutely not cheating.
    Actually if he never asked for permission, it means he was intentionally trying to subvert the rules.  You say that Belichick is the best, smartest coach in the league, but he wouldn't ask where the cameraman should be?  Really?  Doesn't pass the smell test for me. 

    How's that for a fact? 
    pretty poor. 

    All the tapes Goodell showed us showed with Walsh in the stands in Foxborough and on the field on the road after the SB title in February 2002.

    Interesting, isn't it?
    Not really.  Goodell wasn't going to show the worst tapes.  He was trying to protect his boss (Kraft) as best he could.  You see today how close they are.  Goodell knows where his bread is buttered. 

    Your arrogance in that you think only NE has decided to film a particular game or games is hilarious and shows how stupid and naive you are.

    FACT: The Indianapolis Colts have filmed the NE Patriots within the last 25 years.
    Its possible.  Its unknown.  Its pure speculation in an effort to take the spotlight off of Belichick.  My opinion is that there were a few teams doing it (including the pats).  they were all turned into the league.  The league issued a memo specifying the intent of the rule.  The other teams took it seriously.  Belichick used it as toilet paper.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    In Response to Re: Cheaters? : Agreed. Gomer is a great regular season QB and a mediocre post season one, especially outdoors in the elements. He needs a dome and Polian competition committee support.
    Posted by russgriswold

    Yep those were pretty good elements at the 06 SB.  And he won.  
     
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