Cheaters?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Cheaters?

    Just read Mike Reiss and see that the Ravens and Raiders both have been caught by the NFL in rule violations. It seems that they "weren't following the guidelines of what can take place at those OTAs". That sure sounds at least as serious as taping a practice session to me.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots

    Just wondering when the league is going to announce the $750,000 fines and forteitures of first round picks for both teams? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    But they don't win Championships, aren't in the media everyday, don't have legit superstar athletes nor a coach with a seriosu personality; thus no one will care. Don't you know how sports media, especially ESPN, works!?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    It is just like the pictures of the jets filming right after we were caught, it just disappeared and was never spoken of again.  That stuff only matters when u are a winning team.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    yep if the pats were involved they'd be calling it ota gate- 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Are you really likening illegal video taping another team during a regular season game to excessive hours of practice etc in June?  Posted by PatStats


    Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. We taped practice sessions. These two teams engaged in other "illegal" activities during practice sessions. Since when are there "degrees" of illegal activities in the NFL? How many times did we hear the mantra that "rules are rules and infractions are infractions, no matter how minor" when this whole thing was going on?

    I'm not getting drawn into arguing this whole thing over again but the two issues are identical. Sorry you can't see that.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from datdude401. Show datdude401's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    It is just like the pictures of the jets filming right after we were caught, it just disappeared and was never spoken of again.  That stuff only matters when u are a winning team.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    I thought they caught the Jets during a preseason game. And then snitched on us when we returned the favor.
     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    I still have a hard time referring to stealing signals as "cheating."

    That's all the Pats were doing--and they weren't even using the tapes during the games (Matt Walsh confirmed this). They were using them for scouting purposes later on (most likely to scout their own offensive tendencies to see if they were giving away any secrets with their formations).

    Stealing signals continues to go on in every football game played in America to this very day.

    Spygate: the most overblown bunch of nonsense, ever, starting with Goodell's ridiculous over-punishment and continuing with the media hysteria because they smelled Belichick's blood in the water, and most of them hate Belichick and were looking to exact a little revenge against him.

    A big bunch of nothing; that's what it was.

    Anyone who's followed football for more than 5 minutes knows that this kind of thing has been going on since the days of leather helmets.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

           I remember seeing the  Patriots film clip that "someone" stole from the league office evidence room and gave to Fox sports.

       It clearly showed there was a unidentified camera man filming  from the  Jets side line.

     


     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    I cannot fathom why NE Patriots fans would resurrect this instance of ancient history.  The Pats broke the rules, the team and the coach paid the price, the NFL considers the incident closed.  Egad, there has got to be more interesting and timely stuff to rant about.
     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from passedball. Show passedball's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Of course - there is that little issue about the pats being caught and warned, THEN the memo being distributed leaguewide, THEN being caught again.  Cheating and thumbing your nose at the commissioner over it.  Did the other teams do that?


    Yes. The NY Jets did it. They got the memo. They taped the previous game. They taped the game they called the Patriots on. Then they taped the following week. How ballsy was that?, or was it because they knew Goodell would do nothing to them? There were links on Youtube to video of the Jets video taping those three games. The evidence was there for everyone to see, including the commissioner, but the NY media was so intent on attacking the Patriots they left a huge story untold, or was that by design? There was also a NY Post article about the Jets starting the whole video taping issue. There is absolutely no excuse or reason that Goodell didn't come down on the Jets, especially after his wife stole the alleged tape & he couldn't figure out who stole it out of the two people living in the house. The only reason for no discipline on the tape being given to FOX, other than Goodell being crooked, is that maybe FOX made that tape & claimed it was given to them by an unnamed source.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    whoa underoos....i cant wait to hear your comeback...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    Look, the bottom line here is that this situation was mishandled by the league office from Day 1.

    Goodell, by issuing that Draconian and ludicrously harsh penalty, basically gave the media a free hand to pronounce what the Pats did to be the most severe rules violation in the history of the NFL---greater even than Denver and San Francisco fielding illegal rosters (due to salary cap violations) and proceeding to win Super Bowls with them.

    The media hate Belichick, so they took that ball and ran with it until they all fell over from exhaustion.

    Then Goodell made matters worse by destroying the tapes because some idiot in the NFL offices leaked the tape of the Jets' game to Fox Sports....what he should have done was find out who that idiot was and then fired his behind. Destroying the tapes only feeded the media beast and guys like Easterbrook harped on that for the next six months...."what else are they not telling us???!!!!!!"

    The other problem with the case is that it's still somewhat unclear, to this day, what the rule actually states, because the media usually only cited the wording of the memo from the NFL in their articles, and not the wording as it actually appears in the rulebook. The memo clearly takes some liberties with the actual wording of the rule, and applies a set of standards, arbitrarily, that do not exist in the rulebook.

    I've always believed that if the Pats wanted to be "bad soldiers" in the wake of all this mess, they would have had their lawyers challenge the validity of the memo in court, and they would have won, because NFL bylaws clearly state that rules changes can only be made if approved by a vote of NFL club members (or by Polian's Competition Committee, I believe)--they can't be made by executive fiat from the Commissioner's office.

    Belichick was wrong to ignore the memo, but then again, he probably laughed when he read it because he certainly knows what goes on in the NFL and what other teams are doing and have done in the past. Let's face it, he didn't invent filming signals; he had to learn that from somebody else since it's been going on dating back to before Belichick ever became a head coach in Cleveland (Jimmy Johnson confirmed this). BB also knew that other teams had filmed signals before and none of them had ever been "turned in" by another team. His biggest mistake, IMO, was doing it against Mangini and the Jets in New Jersey, because Mangini was dying to embarrass him in any way he could and BB should have been more aware of that fact.

    In the end, if Goodell had issued a normal punishment--maybe a 4th round pick and a $50K fine--the whole thing would have gone away quickly.

    His over-punishment, which, I'm convinced, was due mainly to his being ticked off about the memo being ignored, caused the entire thing to spiral way out of control.

    To punish the Pats that severely for a minor rules infraction, when Denver and SF were given what amounted to slaps on the wrist for violating the salary cap--the single most important factor in producing the "parity" the league desires--sent a very bad message and set off the entire firestorm.






     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    In Response to Re: Cheaters? : In the SB, on the eve of the big game, the media struck again, using a triumvirate of the senile Senator Arlen Specter, a disgruntled former Pats' employee named Walsh, and an obscure, dumb, but ambitious Herald reporter named John Tomase, to set off the "Mother of Distractions"...which would be  referred to as "spygate II".  The scheme took its' toll, as the Pats played their worst game of the season, and lost in the closing seconds to a hot NY Giants team.      
    Posted by TexasPat3


    The Pats publicly deny it (because that's what they do) but I'll always believe that the Tomase story was a distraction that night.

    It's no excuse for losing the game, and certainly, the Giants' incredible defensive effort had a lot to do with it.....but during that entire game the Pats just seemed to be "out of it" (I've also read that Belichick and others in the organization spent hours on the phone with the P.R. people crafting a response to the Herald story on the night before the game--that was time they could have spent tweaking the game plan, etc.)

    It was just a surreal Super Bowl Sunday.

    I remember, after the Tomase story ran that morning and the media firestorm began, thinking that the Super Bowl experience was already ruined for me, and that was 6 hours before the kickoff and 10 hours before the helmet catch.

    I'll never forgive Tomase or the Herald for that.

    I don't know if it made a difference in that game or not, but I'll always believe that it was at least a minor distraction.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Yup. Nods head. Hey Underoos: Why is Bill Polian still on the Competition Committee? He sure likes to volunteer his time a lot, doesn't he? What is your opinion of him accosting a Meadowlands employee in an elevator? Finally, how does it feel to have the NFL admit "faceguarding" was not committed by Ellis Hobbs on that 3rd down play which gave Indy a 1st goal and subsequent TD, instead of 3 points? That was your only big win against NE in the playoffs, at home.  The only one and it wasn't even legit. We won't get into Matt Cassel almost beatin Gomer in 2008 or last year's Darius Butler phantom PI call to assist in wins AT HOME. Take a look at the sources of the witch hunt too: NY Jets Media Arlen Specter Do people know how Arlen Specter became a name in the Philadelphia area?  He took on a case to defend a psycho murdered named  Ira Einhorn, and got him set free into Canada and then France for 15 years. Einhorn had a chopped up girls body in a trunk of his apartment, yet Specter has the spine to find ways to get Einhorn, supported by the heir to the Molson beer fortune, totally off and set free.  Specter took the case to get notoriety and then he ran for Senate on the back of that in 1981. All an agenda.  All about $$.
    Posted by russgriswold



    Man, the faceguarding call was bad and the NFL apologize for it, but to me, the worst calls in that game were the phantom Troy Brown offensive P.I. call that choked off a Patriots' drive deep in Indy territory late in the 2nd quarter with the score already 21-3 (at minimum, they bleed out the rest of the first half clock and kick a field goal there to go up 24-3 at the half); and the Reche Caldwell mugging in the end zone on 3rd and goal that was ignored, with the score tied at 31. If they throw the flag there, it's going to be 38-31 when Manning and the Colts get the ball back, not 34-31. Even if Indy scores a TD there, Brady and the offense would then have had 1 minute and three timeouts to get the ball into Gostkowski's VERY long indoor field goal range---those two calls changed the course of the game more than the faceguarding call IMO; and both calls/non-calls were absolutely dreadful.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

      Remember the Patriots where not fined for filming hand signals. 
    They where fined for having a team employee filming from the side lines.

     As you can see the Jets also had one of their employees filming during the same game.

     Godell had positive proof that the Jets where filming but he choose to ignore it.

     I think that is why Goddell choose to destroy the Patriots film.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    Agreed completely. I stayed away from those because the t.NFL didn't admit they were incorrect. If you notice though, those 3 calls all went against NE AND most importantly had point swinging effects against NE.  They weren't at the 40 yard line or something and a holding call.   It was 12 points, mimnum, too. Minimum. If you add in a FG/TD differential on the faceguarding call, that's 4 more points for a minimum total of 16 swining to Indy. Marlin Jackson does not turn for the ball and impedes Caldwell.  And Troy Brown's phantom "pick" call was nothing more than him running his route. It's one thing to have a Holdijng call, a false start, maybe a clean pass interference call that's obvious, etc, etc, etc,. But, to see these calls halt momentum or just be competeley botched in a title game???? Smells. Smells REALLY bad.
    Posted by russgriswold


    I wouldn't go so far as to call it a conspiracy against the Pats in that game. I just really, really think that whenever the refs go into Indianapolis for a big game (be it a regular season game or a playoff game, in particular) they are intimidated by something.

    I don't know whether it's the crowd noise (both real and pumped in...), or the presence of the Competition Committee's Grand Wizard sitting high up in the press box, but for whatever reason, the refs seem to be scared to call games at Indianapolis properly.

    Remember, the Pats are not the only team to be completely jobbed by the refs there in a post-season game. The officials did all they could to take away Pittsburgh's playoff win in 2005 and the Chargers' 2007 playoff win there. And the officiating in the 2007 regular season game between the Pats and Colts--both undefeated at the time--speaks for itself. 

    I just think the refs are cowed by something when they go into Indy for a big game, and their performance in those games shows this time and again.

    The phantom P.I. call against Butler last season which got the Colts back into the game with under 5 minutes to go is just the latest example.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Re: Cheaters?:
    In Response to Re: Cheaters? : I think people toss around "conspiracy" to try to disparage the reality of something that just might be very true, or in this case, a GM's influence on a competition committe not having any effect whatsoever with what you just said. It's not a conspiracy. It's a guy was a GM of a team that lost 4 straight SBs and now has lost FIVE total in his career. This might explain why he assumed a power position in the Competition Committee, something he hadn't done before arriving in Indy. What you just said (internal pressure) towards officials to call games a certain way on their home field absolutely had an effect in those games. Case in point: In 2007, NE was flagged for 12 penalties for 147 yards.  Mind you, this is a BB team, perenially disciplined and one of the least penalized teams in the NFL. All of  a sudden, they go crazy to the tune of 12 penalties worth 147 yards?  Really? Hmm. NE was able to escape that game with a win, but you can't tell me a 12 penalty to 4 advantage for Indy wasn't a factor in that game. Polian did all he could to see NE lose their first game of the year in that historical NE season.
    Posted by russgriswold



    You know, the biggest kick I got out of all the overreaction to Spygate three years ago was when Don Shula piped up about it late in the season when his '72 Dolphins record was in serious trouble. When Spygate broke in September, Shula laughed it off as no big deal (surely he had done similar things and he knew that others had as well)--but as the Pats kept winning and winning Shula got more nervous about the '72 Dolphins 17-0 record being threatened, and so he suddenly changed his mind about Spygate and started saying, "well, you know, they cheated to get where they are," (paraphrasing, of course).

    The irony? Don Shula was the Bill Polian of his day. He was on the Competition Committee (and dominated it) for years, and the Dolphins always, always, ALWAYS got whatever they wanted from the NFL, no matter what the issue, during the years Shula was on the Committee.

    There's absolutely no question that having a coach or GM or another club executive on the CC is an unfair competitive advantage for those few teams that do have that privilege.

    Why the NFL doesn't go with an autonomous body of "neutral" members for that committee is beyond me. How hard would it be to find 12 guys with extensive football backgrounds who don't currently hold paid positions with NFL teams?

    It just looks BAD (it looked REALLY bad when the Colts had both Polian AND Dungy on the committee at one point).
     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Cheaters?

    In Response to Cheaters?:
    Just read Mike Reiss and see that the Ravens and Raiders both have been caught by the NFL in rule violations. It seems that they "weren't following the guidelines of what can take place at those OTAs". That sure sounds at least as serious as taping a practice session to me. http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots Just wondering when the league is going to announce the $750,000 fines and forteitures of first round picks for both teams? 
    Posted by unclealfie


    who gives a flying fuc*. if that's all you got to offer talk this junk at the colts message board. they may be cheaters, but the're not chokers
     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts