Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

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    Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    IMHO, if the Patriots are going to win another SB - it's improvements in the pass rush and pass coverage that is going to be the most important factor in deciding the outcome.  My thinking is that it all ends up depending on the health of the team, executing the gameplan, luck.........and who we are matched up against.  There are going to be teams that the current Patriots don't match up well with (those teams that have above average pass rush AND pass coverage skills).

    So, to me.....it's all about the defense (even though I acknowledge that there are questions about those WRs that have no experience w/ Brady/Patriot offensive playbook - and losses/injuries to the TE corp).

    If you could have any active DC, who would it be - and why?

    What kinds of things do the Patriots have to do to get back to top 3 in Points against, top 5 in red zone defense, top 5-8 in run D,  and between 10-15 in terms of Pass yards against?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    Dick Lebeau


    Now you got the easy part done telling me about it.

    Does that handshaped bruise on your back hurt?

     
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    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    Dick Lebeau




    Yeah, I was just talking about him with a coworker who is a Steeler fan.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    I'm going to get beat on for this one but Rex Ryan. Really he is a great D guy and has done some good things with the Jets D but he just isn't a O guy at all. If you can get over his big mouth he'd make a great DC


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    I'm guessing Dean Pees won't be popular, I mean what's he ever done?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    You guessed right, Muz.  For the life of me I cant understand why they havent called Romeo to come back and coach yet. He was great with the younger players. They seem to relate. Being in K.C. with a Sh*tty team, his defensive stamp was still evident when they would play the Colts. He would still have Manning Confused as hell. If Parcells needed BB to win his SBs. As of now, I can same the thing in relation to BB and Crennell.  Once Weis and Crennel left, I knew it was a wrap. He have gotten REAL close, but its too stressfull on our QB. Our D needs to be More of a force this year.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I'm guessing Dean Pees won't be popular, I mean what's he ever done?




    I would say he hasn't done anything incredibly good or bad.  But I'm also thinking we need to do better.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    You guessed right, Muz.  For the life of me I cant understand why they havent called Romeo to come back and coach yet. He was great with the younger players. They seem to relate. Being in K.C. with a Sh*tty team, his defensive stamp was still evident when they would play the Colts. He would still have Manning Confused as hell. If Parcells needed BB to win his SBs. As of now, I can same the thing in relation to BB and Crennell.  Once Weis and Crennel left, I knew it was a wrap. He have gotten REAL close, but its too stressfull on our QB. Our D needs to be More of a force this year.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver



    I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Romeo back. If BB is willing to take back the likes of McD - why not Romeo?

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I'm going to get beat on for this one but Rex Ryan. Really he is a great D guy and has done some good things with the Jets D but he just isn't a O guy at all. If you can get over his big mouth he'd make a great DC


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus



    If the team could handle it, yeah, it'd be interesting to see what Rex Ryan could do.

    Plus, his bro Rob Ryan was a LB coach with the Patriots from 200-2003, and has been an active DC for various teams. It'd be interesting to see what he could do too.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?


    Some folks are obsessed w/ the takeaway/giveaway ratio - and mistakingly think that is the most important defensive metric. I  don't think so. Sure, it's important - but points against, red zone defense, run defense and passing yards against (in combination to varying degrees of importance) are more telling in terms of how the defense is actually doing.

    Some posters are totally ignoring the fact that the Patriots have fallen in these other metrics (especially passing yards against). I would say that pts against and red zone defense is a better reflection of how the Patriots are doing.

    Regardless, Patriots need to be in about top 3 for pts. against and red zone d,  about top 5 for run D, top 5 in takeaway/giveaway, and between 10-15 for passing yards against.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    Add some first round defensive tackle talent to the current roster of defensive players we have and watch how dramatically our pass rush and defense as a whole improves.  

    I'll keep Bill Belichick as our defensive coach and let McDaniels run the offense, that should suffice...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?


    After looking at some data, I have to revise my thinking a little bit.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2000

     

    Year       Total O                  Pass       Rush      Total D                  Pass       Rush

    2012       1                              1              4              14                           23           6

    2011       3                              2              4              28                           28           25

    2007       1                              1              2              19                           7              20

    2004       3                              2              4              7                              6              7

    2003       13                           12           25           13                           12           25

    2002       16                           10           14           21                           9              26

    2001       11                           10           17           13                           11           28

    2000       22                           15           27           25                           26           11

    The Pats need to be in top 5 in Points Against, top 5 in Red Zone Defense, and top 10 in Passing Defense efficiency....and it's okay to ease up on Rushing Defense efficiency.

    The only year where both offense and defense came together was 2004.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    You guessed right, Muz.  For the life of me I cant understand why they havent called Romeo to come back and coach yet. He was great with the younger players. They seem to relate. Being in K.C. with a Sh*tty team, his defensive stamp was still evident when they would play the Colts. He would still have Manning Confused as hell. If Parcells needed BB to win his SBs. As of now, I can same the thing in relation to BB and Crennell.  Once Weis and Crennel left, I knew it was a wrap. He have gotten REAL close, but its too stressfull on our QB. Our D needs to be More of a force this year.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     



    I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Romeo back. If BB is willing to take back the likes of McD - why not Romeo?

     



    Because there is already a d-coord in place running the D exactly the way BB wants him to with the players BB chose for him. 

    Why do fans on this board always point to the coaching? This defense has had mediocre players in key positions, and the back 4 has been a revolving door. Hard to "coach up" that scenario. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to rkarp's comment:



    Because there is already a d-coord in place running the D exactly the way BB wants him to with the players BB chose for him. 

    Why do fans on this board always point to the coaching? This defense has had mediocre players in key positions, and the back 4 has been a revolving door. Hard to "coach up" that scenario. 



    True, bottom line is we need better DBs and DE/OL and depth. However, the vanilla D playcalling is up to the coaches. So, vanilla D is either a coaching problem or the Patriots don't have enough defensive ballers to call anything else but vanilla.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

     

    You guessed right, Muz.  For the life of me I cant understand why they havent called Romeo to come back and coach yet. He was great with the younger players. They seem to relate. Being in K.C. with a Sh*tty team, his defensive stamp was still evident when they would play the Colts. He would still have Manning Confused as hell. If Parcells needed BB to win his SBs. As of now, I can same the thing in relation to BB and Crennell.  Once Weis and Crennel left, I knew it was a wrap. He have gotten REAL close, but its too stressfull on our QB. Our D needs to be More of a force this year.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     

     



    I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Romeo back. If BB is willing to take back the likes of McD - why not Romeo?

     

     



    Because there is already a d-coord in place running the D exactly the way BB wants him to with the players BB chose for him. 

     

    Why do fans on this board always point to the coaching? This defense has had mediocre players in key positions, and the back 4 has been a revolving door. Hard to "coach up" that scenario. 



    Well you just answered your question. If we have mediocre talent, why not bring in superior coaching to offset it??  I mean, Romeo and offense dont go together, but I saw K.C. doing the same things to manning that we used to back in the day with a totally diff. team. What does that tell you?  Coaching matters. Patricia is nice, hard working guy but really??  He is promoted within. Has nowhere near the experience or resume that Crennel has. Better thing would be to just say,..BB wants to make his own success and single himself apart and have HIS guy have some success. Either way, its dum if thats the reason. Do what you need to win. Romeo here in 2011, or last year!  Championship!  We no longer have any tricks on D. Just line up with scrubs and hope for the best. Cant win that way

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I'm going to get beat on for this one but Rex Ryan. Really he is a great D guy and has done some good things with the Jets D but he just isn't a O guy at all. If you can get over his big mouth he'd make a great DC


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus



    If he would shut up, I'd agree. 

    His style of playcalling suits what NE has better than LeBeau, who would be another great choice.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I'm going to get beat on for this one but Rex Ryan. Really he is a great D guy and has done some good things with the Jets D but he just isn't a O guy at all. If you can get over his big mouth he'd make a great DC


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     



    If he would shut up, I'd agree. 

     

    His style of playcalling suits what NE has better than LeBeau, who would be another great choice.




    agreed, but Rexy would be a hard sell here.  Just make him Kiss the Rings and he will be welcome!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     


    Some folks are obsessed w/ the takeaway/giveaway ratio - and mistakingly think that is the most important defensive metric. I  don't think so. Sure, it's important - but points against, red zone defense, run defense and passing yards against (in combination to varying degrees of importance) are more telling in terms of how the defense is actually doing.

    Some posters are totally ignoring the fact that the Patriots have fallen in these other metrics (especially passing yards against). I would say that pts against and red zone defense is a better reflection of how the Patriots are doing.

    Regardless, Patriots need to be in about top 3 for pts. against and red zone d,  about top 5 for run D, top 5 in takeaway/giveaway, and between 10-15 for passing yards against.

     




    Passing yards against for a BB D, especially in this era, is bordering on moot. It's points allowed and how many turonvers you can get. But, if your QB is tossing 2 INTs in a game, what good are the D's turnovers?

     

    Top 5 Run D? What's wrong with top 10? They've been 5-10 for years now.  How irrational do you want to get here?

    All I care about is what they do in the postseason.




    A horrific pass D in a passing league is MOOT?  Oh, my.

    Oh, BTW, what is a turonver?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to anonymis' comment:


    After looking at some data, I have to revise my thinking a little bit.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2000

     

    Year       Total O                  Pass       Rush      Total D                  Pass       Rush

    2012       1                              1              4              14                           23           6

    2011       3                              2              4              28                           28           25

    2007       1                              1              2              19                           7              20

    2004       3                              2              4              7                              6              7

    2003       13                           12           25           13                           12           25

    2002       16                           10           14           21                           9              26

    2001       11                           10           17           13                           11           28

    2000       22                           15           27           25                           26           11

    The Pats need to be in top 5 in Points Against, top 5 in Red Zone Defense, and top 10 in Passing Defense efficiency....and it's okay to ease up on Rushing Defense efficiency.

    The only year where both offense and defense came together was 2004.

     



    for those who still "don't get it" as far as Pass Defense Efficiency is concerned.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to Bustchise's comment:

     

    I see.  So what you’re saying is that the teams that have the most turnovers created are the same teams that are tops in the NFL is plays run?  Isn’t it amazing that the same team that has all of these created turnovers is also the same team that can’t seem to stop other teams from passing all over them?

    I just love that your complete moronitude shows through as you try to claim the reason why the defense blows is because “Every single rule and play favors the offense”.  All the while all you can do is whine about how the offense is being run differently (and scoring more points, running more plays) than those good patsie teams from a decade ago.

     

    I can see why you would expect more from a starting QB than an awful LB who is on his third team, but it seems you expect more from Brady than say ANY OTHER PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY - including all of the those high round defensive picks BB has been using while still having a 25th ranked D.

     

     



    according to some, the 25th ranked D doesn't matter - It's all Brady's fault, u see that don't you?

     

    Some folks think that there is no correlation between Passing Defense and the number of points given up.

    In addition, some people don't seem to give credit to the opponents that beat the Patriots or that BB and Coaches didn't learn from earlier games against the same opponent, or that matchups against certain teams simply don't favor the Patriots current team.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    agreed, but Rexy would be a hard sell here.  Just make him Kiss the Rings and he will be welcome!

     



    yes, he prolly burnt that bridge

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4160947. Show user_4160947's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    If you can't beat'em join'em.  The NY Giants have beat us twice with a sound defensive strategy- clog the middle of the field, RUSH 4 DEs, and have a speedy LB corp that covers ground side to side.  It actually sounds like BBs earlier times except he had big DTs and big (slow-ish) LBs.  Tom C, a Parcells disciple, was instrumental in this scheme, of course.  It was Spagnuolo, however, who perfected the speed/unpredictability of their D.  So, Spags now holds a weird associate Def Coordinator position with the Ravens that pundits say was gifted to him by Harbaugh.  Why don't the Pats make a run at him?  I see this D as lining up with Wilfork s the only true behemoth.  This has to signal a change in philosophy to accommodate the rules changes (passing league/ no hands on WRs/ no hits to head, etc).

    The bigger question is whether BB can have a competent DC.  It didn't work with Pees, who ironically is Spag's boss man.

    only other guy is Saban but I don't think that is gonna happen soon.........

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Choice of Defensive Coordinator?

    In response to user_4160947's comment:

     

    If you can't beat'em join'em.  The NY Giants have beat us twice with a sound defensive strategy- clog the middle of the field, RUSH 4 DEs, and have a speedy LB corp that covers ground side to side.  It actually sounds like BBs earlier times except he had big DTs and big (slow-ish) LBs.  Tom C, a Parcells disciple, was instrumental in this scheme, of course.  It was Spagnuolo, however, who perfected the speed/unpredictability of their D.  So, Spags now holds a weird associate Def Coordinator position with the Ravens that pundits say was gifted to him by Harbaugh.  Why don't the Pats make a run at him?  I see this D as lining up with Wilfork s the only true behemoth.  This has to signal a change in philosophy to accommodate the rules changes (passing league/ no hands on WRs/ no hits to head, etc).

    The bigger question is whether BB can have a competent DC.  It didn't work with Pees, who ironically is Spag's boss man.

    only other guy is Saban but I don't think that is gonna happen soon.........

    -----

    Tom C definitely outcoached BB in both SB games. Got the Patriots to play their game vs. other way around. Made just enough plays offensively and defensively to win two SBs.

    Don't know much about Spagnuolo - but would like to see someone be a lil more aggressive defensively; if possible. We might not have the right personnel?

     



    Saban seems too fickle.....

     

     
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