CJones-OUCH!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    CJones-OUCH!

    Worst players on NFL's best teams   Updated: November 5, 2013, 1:25 PM ET By Khaled Elsayed | Pro Football Focus

    Howard Smith/USA TODAY SportsAlex Smith's lack of downfield abilities may prove problematic for the Chiefs.

     

    With over half the NFL regular season in the books, the wheat is being separated from the chaff. While some teams have surprised us, others are where we expected them to be all along. It has left us with eight teams with six wins or more, and all eight will be thinking what could be come Feb. 2, 2014, when New York/New Jersey hosts the Super Bowl.

    But that's not all they will be thinking about. Because the journey to get there is still a long one and each team will have identified some key weaknesses that they'll need to improve on during the stretch run. So this week we're going to help them out and break down the weakest link in the starting lineup and explain why they're a problem for the weeks ahead. And as Kansas City shows us, even perfection has a potential big flaw.

    Kansas City Chiefs: Alex Smith, QB (2013 PFF Grade: -6.6)

    The Chiefs may be 9-0, but the arm of Smith has hardly been tested this season. Smith is a player who has just enough talent that he can get by with a special defense (and the Chiefs D is special, as they comfortably are our highest-ranked defense). As the poor results under Matt Cassel showed us, Smith's achievements are still notable, but it means when the schedule toughens up (as it will over the next month), Smith's flaws are likely to be exposed. Smith is our fifth lowest-ranked pure passer and it's easy to see why, with a style that is more reliant on dumping the ball off than making plays downfield. It's telling that his yards-in-the-air percentage of 44.9 is the lowest in the league, meaning the Chiefs have the highest percentage of yards after the catch of any team in the league. Eventually Smith will need to beat teams down the field if the Chiefs are trailing -- and that's not his game. He's throwing just 5.7 percent of his attempts further than 20 yards, the lowest rate in the league and an indication of how limited the passing attack is.

    Seattle Seahawks: Paul McQuistan, LT/LG (-19.9)

    The good news for Seattle fans is that McQuistan isn't likely to be left tackle all that much longer. Russell Okung is getting set to start practicing again and return to his usual spot. But the team is asking a lot of Okung to come back in and it remains to be seen how fit he'll be. That could mean McQuistan seeing more time at tackle, or moving back to guard. Neither is an ideal solution, as McQuistan is our third lowest-ranked tackle on the year and, by virtue of giving up 31 quarterback disruptions on 254 pass blocks at tackle, the owner of the third lowest pass blocking efficiency score. The concern is that the more he plays, the more vulnerable QB Russell Wilson is. Wilson already is leading the league by facing pressure on 48.3 percent of his dropbacks and that is a recipe for disaster.

    Denver Broncos: Kevin Vickerson, DT (-11.3)

    The Broncos knew they had a problem at defensive tackle when they spent their first-round pick on Sylvester Williams. The obvious hope was that Williams could contribute immediately, but after looking out of place in preseason, he has found his way onto the field for just 87 snaps and, outside of one quarterback hit, done very little. That has meant their base defense has chiefly featured Terrance Knighton and Vickerson, with one of them delivering and the other not. The problem isn't just that Vickerson grades negatively against the run (just eight defensive stops all year) or fails to generate much pressure (he's 36th out of 58 qualifying defensive tackles in our pass rushing productivity signature stat). The problem is he draws a lot of yellow flags -- seven of them this year. Those are the kinds of things that sustain drives and put a defense under more pressure than it needs to face.

    New England Patriots: Chris Jones, DT (-13.5)

    On the surface Jones hasn't done all that bad, combining on six sacks. Considering the guy who he replaced (Tommy Kelly) had three, that would suggest improvement, right? Not exactly. This is where sacks are a deceiving statistic because they're not an entirely reflective or predictive measurement of success getting to the quarterback. At the moment Jones has converted 60 percent of his pressures into sacks and converting pressures into sacks owes as much to the opposition as it does to the pass-rusher. Instead, his pass rushing productivity score has him ranked 42nd in the league with 10 quarterback disruptions on 201 pass rushes while he's a nonfactor in the run game. His 5.4 run stop percentage ranks 56th out of 73 defensive tackles. The Patriots already felt the need to go out and get Isaac Sopoaga, which just highlights the concern over the middle of their defensive line.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    Wow... is he great at run D, no.  Is he the best inside rusher I have seen on the Pats in like 5 years, IMO yes.  Put him next to Soap and have Spikes behind Jones... moving on.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    Wow... is he great at run D, no.  Is he the best inside rusher I have seen on the Pats in like 5 years, IMO yes.  Put him next to Soap and have Spikes behind Jones... moving on.  




    +1

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    I really don't know what to think of him yet, but you can't discount his sacks, weather it be from broken plays, coverage or hustle...they are still sacks. Honestly I think Vellano and Jones both move very well...I can't remember which one did it, but one of them really really impressed me with his speed on a sack on Matt Ryan. Whoever that was moved like a linebacker at 300 pounds....I want to say it was Vellano.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    in bend but dont break defense, which this is, rule #1 is stop the run. Get the opposing team iunto 2nd and long and 3rd and long...make them put the ball in the air for turnovers...yes, passes will also be completed, but percentages of turn overs increase. bend, but dont break.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    in bend but dont break defense, which this is, rule #1 is stop the run. Get the opposing team iunto 2nd and long and 3rd and long...make them put the ball in the air for turnovers...yes, passes will also be completed, but percentages of turn overs increase. bend, but dont break.



    Or just sack the shyt of the QB and speed up his clock to pass faster than normal.  Then with the press coverage the Pats now employ they can make the QB uncomfortable and fail to create any kind of rhythm offensively, and force the QB into making bad throws which can lead to turnovers as well.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    PFF said Talib was one of the worst corners in the NFL last season after coming over.

    PFF thinks Spikes is a better LB than Mayo.

    I take all PFF ratings with a HUGE grain of salt (even the ones that are favorable to the Pats).

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    You can't lose your two best run defenders (Wilfork and Mayo arguably) and expect the team to not miss a beat against the run. Obviously having Wilfork improves the interior pass rush/ pocket collapses. Without your best cover corner it is also difficult to get the occasional coverage sack. Hopefully some players get healthy (Talib) during the bye.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    For me KC could be done if someone like Denver or the Pats puts up a a two TD lead. Smith minimizes his mistakes but he will not win a QB dual with an elite QB who has a healthy receiving corps. The real issue is;  Is KC defense elite enough to stop the best QBs in the league come playoff time?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    It's not like we don't watch the games. Chris Jones was a 6th round draft choice released by two teams before coming to New England. No one is expecting rookie of the year from him. He has played pretty darned well, all things considered.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    For the love of... I saw the title and thought Chandler got injured somehow.  DON'T DO THAT TO ME!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    PFF said Talib was one of the worst corners in the NFL last season after coming over.

    PFF thinks Spikes is a better LB than Mayo.

    I take all PFF ratings with a HUGE grain of salt (even the ones that are favorable to the Pats).



     ^ absolute truth PCMIV.  

    I would also note that he was never meant to be out there without a big body.  He is meant to play next to a Wilfork or Kelly not instead of.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    Considering not one single person who follows the Patriots ever heard of this guy three months ago (other than the draftniks) and he was cut this year by two teams that have won a collective two games, what they've gotten from him is pretty great. I don't see how you compare him to a starting QB who was the top pick in the draft at one time and who has been in the league for many years.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    It is all called ...  "heat of the moment".  Stuff like what PFF is doing is accomplishing what it wants, create interest and discussion.  Media...  smh!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    PFF said Talib was one of the worst corners in the NFL last season after coming over.

    PFF thinks Spikes is a better LB than Mayo.

    I take all PFF ratings with a HUGE grain of salt (even the ones that are favorable to the Pats).



    I agree you have to but there is a bit of truth in their statement. Jones is either getting a sack or he disappears and is a big liability in the run game. He's best used as a sub rusher imo where he can shine and I think he could be a 7-12 sack guy a year in that role but he is brutal to watch at times as a starter.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    I have a super mega highly complex and accurate system for rating all the football statistics websites and this year PFF is at a -4.71

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    Poor Rusty must be on a "don't harm yourself watch" seeing his fantasy lover Smith on this list. LMAO

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    For the love of... I saw the title and thought Chandler got injured somehow.  DON'T DO THAT TO ME!



    Same knee jerk I had

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sobchack. Show Sobchack's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    It's not like we don't watch the games. Chris Jones was a 6th round draft choice released by two teams before coming to New England. No one is expecting rookie of the year from him. He has played pretty darned well, all things considered.



    +1  PFF ratings about a rookie?  He was thrust into this role.  One can't be "disappointed" in the kid.  The D line became a triage unit.  Sopagua will help with the run, even if it's a net -.3 RPG.  I'll take good inside pass rushers in Vince's absence.  Jones can do it.  End of story. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    I'm inclined to agree with Muzz, digger and Sobchack - I mean we're talking about a twice released rookie 6th rounder here.  They were apparently expecting Reggie White.  I don't know much about PFF but if this is an example of what they produce I'm not particularly impressed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    Is "Bend but don't break" defense is code for "not really that good"?

    Jones is an injury replacement player.  He's fine.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    I dont think any of us are passing judgement on Jones. Lucky for the Pats, he was available once even when the team was so desperate. I also like his potential down the road, and see him as a high motor rotational player that can fit into this system.

    PFF does not paint itself as the definitive source of good player/bad player. Like any metric out there, PFF assigns a numerical grade to each player by position based on a predetirmined rating system. This simply allows us to compare each one player against another player at the same position.

    No one has to agree with PFF's scores, nor do they have to agree at how they detirmine their ratings. But they are a solid organization that is fair and unbiased. Just because PFF's rating system did not paint a pretty picture of Jones against the run, does not mean he is not helping the Pats.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!


    I think this article was posted in direct response to the Chris Jones appreciation thread that lasted for days. You cant have it both ways. I actually like the kid but I had to point out a slight when Rusty said he was more productive than Richardson. I had to put it into context.

    Thats the problem here most the time. Fans fall in love with players and overrate them and start saying crazy chit. The fact is he is a good pass rusher from the DT position but ideally you want your DT to able to stop the run 1st and he gets pushed around in the run game which has led to our 31st ranked run D and will likely have a negative affect in playoffs where teams will run until you can stop it. It is what it is. Not knocking the  player but he is limited. He has been very good for us in the pass game IMO, all things considered

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    I think this article was posted in direct response to the Chris Jones appreciation thread that lasted for days. You cant have it both ways. I actually like the kid but I had to point out a slight when Rusty said he was more productive than Richardson. I had to put it into context.

    Thats the problem here most the time. Fans fall in love with players and overrate them and start saying crazy chit. The fact is he is a good pass rusher from the DT position but ideally you want your DT to able to stop the run 1st and he gets pushed around in the run game which has led to our 31st ranked run D and will likely have a negative affect in playoffs where teams will run until you can stop it. It is what it is. Not knocking the  player but he is limited. He has been very good for us in the pass game IMO, all things considered



    this post was not a direct response. I posted this information because I enjoy looking at metric analysis to see a different picture on a player. I try to put up on this board anything I find interesting regarding the Pats, thinking others here may also find it interesting. There is only 1 idiot on this board that takes any criticism of any Patriot player other than Brady personally, but it is what it is.

    I found the metric on Jones of interest because I see opposing teams running up the gut on the Pats at will, even if the other teams OL is lacking. Pitts was a perfect example. I then watched the tape, and tried to see why Pitts OL was so easily taking the PAts DT's out of the play. Pitts OL was not taking the PAts DT's out of the play, the Pats DT were taking themselves out of the play. Jones and Vellano were guessing themselves into 1 gap, leaving the 2 gap wide open for the RB to pass right thru. Soap was playing 2 gap, and held the point of attack, but Jones and vellano were giving up yards with no resistance. The DT's need to play 2 gap in this defense, leave the sacks to Chandler and Nink. IMO, if Jones gets 10-12 sacks this season, that means the Pats run defense will be in the bottom 3rd  of the entire league. Thats not how to win the SB. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: CJones-OUCH!

    All of this player rater stuff is nuts.

    Sabermetrics sort of works for baseball sometimes.

    These days, so many sites are trying to copy the idea and come up with their own way of rating players.

    Instead, I suggest people watch the games and see how a guy plays.

     
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