Cleveland 95

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    Cleveland 95

    I watched a football life edition "Cleveland 95" the other day, I thought it was pretty good. It's very complimentary to BB. It's a pretty good watch for a Pats fan.

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    its funny, the NFL Network football life series paints BB in a very good light which he should be as he is the best in the business. but his Cleveland days are strange. football life paints BB as this master mind who was creating a coaching dynasty, and turning coaching and decision making in the NFL on its ear. yet public opinion (players complaining, ex owner comments, fans comments) seem to indicate BB was run out out Cleveland, and not fast enough, never to return to coaching if not for his pal Parcells.

    Can it be if Parcells did not take BB on his staff, BB would have been out of the NFL?

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    I agree, it was very good.  Lots of good future NFL coaches and personnell in that group.  Imagine, had the Browns not moved and fired BB, he would have had some great years in Cleveland.  They were on the verge of winning it all.  BB probably wouldn't be coaching the Patriots had the Browns never moved.

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    I agree, it was very good.  Lots of good future NFL coaches and personnell in that group.  Imagine, had the Browns not moved and fired BB, he would have had some great years in Cleveland.  They were on the verge of winning it all.  BB probably wouldn't be coaching the Patriots had the Browns never moved.



    they were on the verge of what? not while denver dallas san fran and green bay were playing they weren't...

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    its funny, the NFL Network football life series paints BB in a very good light which he should be as he is the best in the business. but his Cleveland days are strange. football life paints BB as this master mind who was creating a coaching dynasty, and turning coaching and decision making in the NFL on its ear. yet public opinion (players complaining, ex owner comments, fans comments) seem to indicate BB was run out out Cleveland, and not fast enough, never to return to coaching if not for his pal Parcells.

    Can it be if Parcells did not take BB on his staff, BB would have been out of the NFL?



    as i always say rkarp:

    no parcells no bellichick

    (dont tell rusty!)

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    I am not saying I think that Parcells is a better coach, cap manager, or even evaluator of talent. I prefer BB over Parcells in every aspect. What I am saying, would BB have ever gotten another job after Cleveland if Parcells didnt offer him one?

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I am not saying I think that Parcells is a better coach, cap manager, or even evaluator of talent. I prefer BB over Parcells in every aspect. What I am saying, would BB have ever gotten another job after Cleveland if Parcells didnt offer him one?

     




    Of course. What kind of a dumb question is that? Arugably the best Def Coordinator in the NFL not being offered another role?

     

    You're so naive for a 50 year old, it's flat out embarrassing.

     



    I think it was pretty clear that BB was toxic after the Cleveland job. Modell put a lot of pressure on Mara to not hire BB, but Parcells won out.

    That was the point of my comment...the NFL Network piece made BB out like he invented football, but he really left Cleveland very acrimoniously with players, ownership and fans all hating on him.

    Parcells didnt bring him in as def coord...he was a position coach

    What the piece did not address was why was BB fired so abruptly, and why was Modell, who carried a ton of weight with other owners bad mouthing him?

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: Cleveland 95

    they put pressure on Mara not to hire BB?  what does Mara have to do with this.  By that time parcels was with the Pats, on his way to the Jets.  what influence could mara have had on not hiring BB as parcells wasn't near him?

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to provpats' comment:

     

    they put pressure on Mara not to hire BB?  what does Mara have to do with this.  By that time parcels was with the Pats, on his way to the Jets.  what influence could mara have had on not hiring BB as parcells wasn't near him?

     



    Parcells was with the Pats, and Modell wanted Mara convince Parcells to not take on BB after Modell tried to black ball him with other owners

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I am not saying I think that Parcells is a better coach, cap manager, or even evaluator of talent. I prefer BB over Parcells in every aspect. What I am saying, would BB have ever gotten another job after Cleveland if Parcells didnt offer him one?

     




    Of course. What kind of a dumb question is that? Arugably the best Def Coordinator in the NFL not being offered another role?

     

    You're so naive for a 50 year old, it's flat out embarrassing.

     

     



    I think it was pretty clear that BB was toxic after the Cleveland job. Modell put a lot of pressure on Mara to not hire BB, but Parcells won out.

     

    That was the point of my comment...the NFL Network piece made BB out like he invented football, but he really left Cleveland very acrimoniously with players, ownership and fans all hating on him.

    Parcells didnt bring him in as def coord...he was a position coach

    What the piece did not address was why was BB fired so abruptly, and why was Modell, who carried a ton of weight with other owners bad mouthing him?

     



    Are you this stupid?  BB has never been a media darling and never will be.  Modell wanted the pressure off of him for being greedy and moving the team, so when the announcement was made to move the team, the team tanked, and Modell blamed BB, getting away scot free in the process.

     

    Why was BB fired abruptly? Are you this dumb?  He was the scapegoat!

    BB benched Kosar a fan favorite (the right move, if 1 year too late). Modell wanted Kosar because he felt that would help sell tickets and get him stadium support.  You know, sort of like how Woody Johnson had his PSL push here in recent years? Oh, the irony.

     The media and fans wanted immediate success after choking down back to back AFC title games to Denver in 1988 and 1989.

    How does the piece need to address what we already know as what happened? The piece intended to give us the truth behind the lies that were perpetuated by Modell and the media.

    The truth is, Cleveland was well on its way to a second straight playoff appearance in 1995, was in GREAT financial order after BB gutted the dead weight, prepared to lure FAs being cut in the cap era, and clearly a team surging upward.

    It's funny to me how the people who want to hate BB, want to see the media plastered inaccuracies vs learn the truth.

     

     

     



    there has to be more to it. owners dont black ball coaches after they are fired for having bas seasons, which BB did. Not only did he lose games, he lost the team, and the fans.

    I dont see Woody sayiong anything about Tannenboob, nor would I imagine he would say anything against rex once he is let go

     
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    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I am not saying I think that Parcells is a better coach, cap manager, or even evaluator of talent. I prefer BB over Parcells in every aspect. What I am saying, would BB have ever gotten another job after Cleveland if Parcells didnt offer him one?

     




    Of course. What kind of a dumb question is that? Arugably the best Def Coordinator in the NFL not being offered another role?

     

    You're so naive for a 50 year old, it's flat out embarrassing.

     

     



    I think it was pretty clear that BB was toxic after the Cleveland job. Modell put a lot of pressure on Mara to not hire BB, but Parcells won out.

     

    That was the point of my comment...the NFL Network piece made BB out like he invented football, but he really left Cleveland very acrimoniously with players, ownership and fans all hating on him.

    Parcells didnt bring him in as def coord...he was a position coach

    What the piece did not address was why was BB fired so abruptly, and why was Modell, who carried a ton of weight with other owners bad mouthing him?

     



    Are you this stupid?  BB has never been a media darling and never will be.  Modell wanted the pressure off of him for being greedy and moving the team, so when the announcement was made to move the team, the team tanked, and Modell blamed BB, getting away scot free in the process.

     

    Why was BB fired abruptly? Are you this dumb?  He was the scapegoat!

    BB benched Kosar a fan favorite (the right move, if 1 year too late). Modell wanted Kosar because he felt that would help sell tickets and get him stadium support.  You know, sort of like how Woody Johnson had his PSL push here in recent years? Oh, the irony.

     The media and fans wanted immediate success after choking down back to back AFC title games to Denver in 1988 and 1989.

    How does the piece need to address what we already know as what happened? The piece intended to give us the truth behind the lies that were perpetuated by Modell and the media.

    The truth is, Cleveland was well on its way to a second straight playoff appearance in 1995, was in GREAT financial order after BB gutted the dead weight, prepared to lure FAs being cut in the cap era, and clearly a team surging upward.

    It's funny to me how the people who want to hate BB, want to see the media plastered inaccuracies vs learn the truth.

     

     

     

     



    there has to be more to it. owners dont black ball coaches after they are fired for having bas seasons, which BB did. Not only did he lose games, he lost the team, and the fans.

     

    I dont see Woody sayiong anything about Tannenboob, nor would I imagine he would say anything against rex once he is let go

     




    BB did not lose the team at all. Modell announced the team was moving MID SEASON, which obviously is a HUGE SHOCK, especially in a football hotbed like that.

     

    How is that "losing the team"?   How many NFL teams announce they're moving mid season anyway?

    Did you even watch the documentary?  The players, coaches, etc, said nothing of the sort whatsoever.  All you're doing is regurgitating the story Modell fed the press to sabotage BB and cover his own behind.

    Do you ever get tired of being completely inaccurate/wrong on literally every subject here?

     



    nit wit, I am telling you the documentary left out the biggest part of the story. Typical NFL Network work. E60 would never have left that uncovered. The players hated BB, nothing to do with Modell. The fans hated BB. Nothing to do with Modell (granted, a lot with Kosar)

    Begs the question, why did Modell try to black ball him? Dont feed me Modell was trying cover himself crap. When has another owner ever done such a thing? And if you are correct, which I doubt, why didnt the NFL NEtwork even broach the subject?

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I am not saying I think that Parcells is a better coach, cap manager, or even evaluator of talent. I prefer BB over Parcells in every aspect. What I am saying, would BB have ever gotten another job after Cleveland if Parcells didnt offer him one?

     




    Of course. What kind of a dumb question is that? Arugably the best Def Coordinator in the NFL not being offered another role?

     

    You're so naive for a 50 year old, it's flat out embarrassing.

     

     



    I think it was pretty clear that BB was toxic after the Cleveland job. Modell put a lot of pressure on Mara to not hire BB, but Parcells won out.

     

    That was the point of my comment...the NFL Network piece made BB out like he invented football, but he really left Cleveland very acrimoniously with players, ownership and fans all hating on him.

    Parcells didnt bring him in as def coord...he was a position coach

    What the piece did not address was why was BB fired so abruptly, and why was Modell, who carried a ton of weight with other owners bad mouthing him?

     



    Are you this stupid?  BB has never been a media darling and never will be.  Modell wanted the pressure off of him for being greedy and moving the team, so when the announcement was made to move the team, the team tanked, and Modell blamed BB, getting away scot free in the process.

     

    Why was BB fired abruptly? Are you this dumb?  He was the scapegoat!

    BB benched Kosar a fan favorite (the right move, if 1 year too late). Modell wanted Kosar because he felt that would help sell tickets and get him stadium support.  You know, sort of like how Woody Johnson had his PSL push here in recent years? Oh, the irony.

     The media and fans wanted immediate success after choking down back to back AFC title games to Denver in 1988 and 1989.

    How does the piece need to address what we already know as what happened? The piece intended to give us the truth behind the lies that were perpetuated by Modell and the media.

    The truth is, Cleveland was well on its way to a second straight playoff appearance in 1995, was in GREAT financial order after BB gutted the dead weight, prepared to lure FAs being cut in the cap era, and clearly a team surging upward.

    It's funny to me how the people who want to hate BB, want to see the media plastered inaccuracies vs learn the truth.

     

     

     

     



    there has to be more to it. owners dont black ball coaches after they are fired for having bas seasons, which BB did. Not only did he lose games, he lost the team, and the fans.

     

    I dont see Woody sayiong anything about Tannenboob, nor would I imagine he would say anything against rex once he is let go

     




    BB did not lose the team at all. Modell announced the team was moving MID SEASON, which obviously is a HUGE SHOCK, especially in a football hotbed like that.

     

    How is that "losing the team"?   How many NFL teams announce they're moving mid season anyway?

    Did you even watch the documentary?  The players, coaches, etc, said nothing of the sort whatsoever.  All you're doing is regurgitating the story Modell fed the press to sabotage BB and cover his own behind.

    Do you ever get tired of being completely inaccurate/wrong on literally every subject here?

     

     



    nit wit, I am telling you the documentary left out the biggest part of the story. Typical NFL Network work. E60 would never have left that uncovered. The players hated BB, nothing to do with Modell. The fans hated BB. Nothing to do with Modell (granted, a lot with Kosar)

     

    Begs the question, why did Modell try to black ball him? Dont feed me Modell was trying cover himself crap. When has another owner ever done such a thing? And if you are correct, which I doubt, why didnt the NFL NEtwork even broach the subject?

     




    Did you just ask why an ego ridden owner ever has tried to cover his behind? Did you really just ask that?

     

    Modell was not a saint, Karpie.  He was a selfish, irrational owner who was notoroius for meddling.

    Just like Al Davis, Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, etc.

    The players did not hate BB at all.  Maybe some of the older, more established ones did, but you're wrong on saying that as if the team somehow turned against him once the owner, Modell, made that announcement. Everything was going swimmingly by 1994 and into 1995. BB had cut the dead weight, cut the big egos, and started coaching up the younger players.

    It's very obvious you did not even watch the documentary.   

    Years later, Modell actually admitted how wrong he was, too. You're wrong. AGAIN.

     



    tell me a single time any other owner has done so?

    I watched the documentary twice, and never was it mentioned that Modell tried to sabbotage BB with other owners

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I am not saying I think that Parcells is a better coach, cap manager, or even evaluator of talent. I prefer BB over Parcells in every aspect. What I am saying, would BB have ever gotten another job after Cleveland if Parcells didnt offer him one?

     




    Of course. What kind of a dumb question is that? Arugably the best Def Coordinator in the NFL not being offered another role?

     

    You're so naive for a 50 year old, it's flat out embarrassing.

     

     



    I think it was pretty clear that BB was toxic after the Cleveland job. Modell put a lot of pressure on Mara to not hire BB, but Parcells won out.

     

    That was the point of my comment...the NFL Network piece made BB out like he invented football, but he really left Cleveland very acrimoniously with players, ownership and fans all hating on him.

    Parcells didnt bring him in as def coord...he was a position coach

    What the piece did not address was why was BB fired so abruptly, and why was Modell, who carried a ton of weight with other owners bad mouthing him?

     



    Are you this stupid?  BB has never been a media darling and never will be.  Modell wanted the pressure off of him for being greedy and moving the team, so when the announcement was made to move the team, the team tanked, and Modell blamed BB, getting away scot free in the process.

     

    Why was BB fired abruptly? Are you this dumb?  He was the scapegoat!

    BB benched Kosar a fan favorite (the right move, if 1 year too late). Modell wanted Kosar because he felt that would help sell tickets and get him stadium support.  You know, sort of like how Woody Johnson had his PSL push here in recent years? Oh, the irony.

     The media and fans wanted immediate success after choking down back to back AFC title games to Denver in 1988 and 1989.

    How does the piece need to address what we already know as what happened? The piece intended to give us the truth behind the lies that were perpetuated by Modell and the media.

    The truth is, Cleveland was well on its way to a second straight playoff appearance in 1995, was in GREAT financial order after BB gutted the dead weight, prepared to lure FAs being cut in the cap era, and clearly a team surging upward.

    It's funny to me how the people who want to hate BB, want to see the media plastered inaccuracies vs learn the truth.

     

     

     

     



    there has to be more to it. owners dont black ball coaches after they are fired for having bas seasons, which BB did. Not only did he lose games, he lost the team, and the fans.

     

    I dont see Woody sayiong anything about Tannenboob, nor would I imagine he would say anything against rex once he is let go

     




    BB did not lose the team at all. Modell announced the team was moving MID SEASON, which obviously is a HUGE SHOCK, especially in a football hotbed like that.

     

    How is that "losing the team"?   How many NFL teams announce they're moving mid season anyway?

    Did you even watch the documentary?  The players, coaches, etc, said nothing of the sort whatsoever.  All you're doing is regurgitating the story Modell fed the press to sabotage BB and cover his own behind.

    Do you ever get tired of being completely inaccurate/wrong on literally every subject here?

     

     



    nit wit, I am telling you the documentary left out the biggest part of the story. Typical NFL Network work. E60 would never have left that uncovered. The players hated BB, nothing to do with Modell. The fans hated BB. Nothing to do with Modell (granted, a lot with Kosar)

     

    Begs the question, why did Modell try to black ball him? Dont feed me Modell was trying cover himself crap. When has another owner ever done such a thing? And if you are correct, which I doubt, why didnt the NFL NEtwork even broach the subject?

     




    Did you just ask why an ego ridden owner ever has tried to cover his behind? Did you really just ask that?

     

    Modell was not a saint, Karpie.  He was a selfish, irrational owner who was notoroius for meddling.

    Just like Al Davis, Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, etc.

    The players did not hate BB at all.  Maybe some of the older, more established ones did, but you're wrong on saying that as if the team somehow turned against him once the owner, Modell, made that announcement. Everything was going swimmingly by 1994 and into 1995. BB had cut the dead weight, cut the big egos, and started coaching up the younger players.

    It's very obvious you did not even watch the documentary.   

    Years later, Modell actually admitted how wrong he was, too. You're wrong. AGAIN.

     

     



    tell me a single time any other owner has done so?

     

    I watched the documentary twice, and never was it mentioned that Modell tried to sabbotage BB with other owners

     




    I didn't bring up the idea that Modell tried to sabotage BB's career. You did.

     

    You mentioned the Maras somehow being swayed by Modell, which is chronlogically incorrect.

    You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole here. Everyone is watching you make a fool of yourself again.



    I know I did! That is why I am saying the NFL network should have! Are you that dense?

    Modell wanted Mara's to pressure Parcells to not hire BB for the Pats secondary coach position. Parcells hired him anyways.

    Thats the disconnect dummy. The piece made BB out to be a pioneer, yet reality is that he was forced out and Modell tried to black ball him...why? Your response to cover his back side makes no sense. No owner ahs ever done anything like that before.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Cleveland 95

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    Belichick was scouting games as an 11 year old at Navy.  You're a moron, Gunty.  He was in the NFL LONG BEFORE Parcells, too.

    6 years before Parcells.

    Without BB, Parcells may not have even 1 ring.  He definitley wouldn't have the 2nd one.

    How is this even debatable? Even the anti-BB Pats fans here, the really, really weird ones like Babe, RKarp, Hurl, etc, will admit that BB is clearly superior to that of Parcells.

    It took Parcells 5 years to get the Giants into contention. It wasn't until 1985, when Parcells wisely promoted BB to Def Coordinator did they reach the NFC title game.  The next year, the won it all.

    BB.

     

     




    we've been down this road a million times and we know bb invented football in ur eyes so i wont even bother going over the same ground ad nauseum

     

    that said u should be more respectful to the Master who turned ur team from sorry *ss to afc champion...ingrate!

     




    Good thing he brought in BB to over his asz.  Funny how once BB comes in, he helps Parcells's teams immediately become very good.

     

    What would Parcells ever do without BB? Not win, that we know.

     




    kind of like what BB would do without Tom Brady?

     
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