Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Glenn,

    There was no way to know who you were praising and who you were criticizing. 
    1.  Brown has a greater career average than Chung (which CHFF uses to compare players).  
    2.  Addai has had a better career than Maroney and the pats could have drafted Addai. 
    3.  Chad Jackson started one game in his career.  Tony Ugoh started 27.  Still want to call them equal?
    4.  Since 2006, the colts have been to 2 superbowls and won one.  How about the pats?  Since then they have drafted players you know (or should know) 06  - Addai, Johnson, Bethea (2 probowlers); 07 - Gonzalez, Session, Dawson; 08 - Wheeler, Tamme, Garcon; 09 - Brown, Moala, Powers, Collie, Mcafee; 10 - Hughes, Angerer, Thomas, Mclendon, Eldridge, Conner.  Take your probowls.  I'll take these guys. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Let me be clear again.  I think the pats are great drafters.  I think the colts are great drafters. 

    I challenge the homer writer's stats as somewhat incomplete based on things the stats miss.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Texas-Pathetic. Show Texas-Pathetic's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters:
    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters : WHy do you leave off quality players from the other parts of NE's drafts?  You just did exactly what you claim Cold Hard Football Facts supposedly did. You closed the window, narrowing it down to round by round matchups, and used a formatting criteria to make the Colts draft look better. A more normal, less agenda-driven overview (lol) would be to look at each team's big pictures.  You also left out undrafted free agents from NE.  Clearly, teams like to supplement a draft by adding potentials like undrafted FAs.  NE is pretty good with this. Fitting you act like these players don't matter when considering the yield from a draft. Take the entire draft picture from 2006-2010, for example, all the names both teams added, and NE's pull is significantly BETTER.  It's significant. You have a load of busts and injury cases. Case closed.  BB />Polian The question is, when does it catch up to Indy?  Does Houston make the move?   Does Jax make the move? Is it this year?  Will Polian's recent draft gaffes catch up to a team that doesn't make moves on free agents?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


     "You also left out undrafted free agents from NE."  Ehhhh, what's the title of this thread?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Rusty - I was responding to Glen and attempting to compare apples to apples. 

    *Are you willing to say Maroney is a better pick than Adda or even Gonalez or Ugoh?   
    *Gonzalez vs. Jackson (Jackson 36th-06; Gonzo 32nd-07).  Gonzalez even with his injuries has been better.  
    *Brown vs. Chung - (you didn't pick an RB) - Chung's been better.
    *Hughes has been disappointing but he's was rook behind Freeney and Mathis.  That's tough.  Your pick is better.  
    *Tate vs. Collie - Collie - easy. 
    *Garcon vs. Anyone from that draft but Mayo. - Garcon. 

    Obviously your mayo pick is great.  Merriweather is good but I like Bethea better and he's a better value. 
     
    Now, as Tpathetic said, these are about draft picks, but if you feel the need to go there, lets do. Lets look at the udfa's on last year's teams that who never made another team and played only for the pats or colts : 
    *Jeff Saturday
    *Gary Brackett
    *Melvin Bullitt
    *Aaron Francisco
    *Jacob Lacey
    *Gijon Robinson
    *Blair White
    *Dominic Rhodes
    vs.
    Arrington
    Green-Ellis
    Guyton
    Neal
    Wright

    Not much of a comparison, really. 

    And drafts from 06 to current:  Well, I've already shown that the colts kept a greater percentage of players than the pats from 09-10. 

    As for 06-08

    Pats: Gostkowski, Merriweather, Mayo
    Colts: Addai, Johnson, Bethea, Gonzalez, Session, Wheeler, Tamme, Garcon.

    Honestly, I thought maybe the pats had had some better drafts, but after some real analysis, its obvious the colts were better. 

    Btw - here's what Rick Reilly thought:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6528474

    Rusty - you're...  rusty.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Dogg you'll get to prove that on Sun nite Dec 4 at 8:20. brrrr
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    I think the colts already have.  Since the 06 draft that Rusty wanted to start with, the colts have beaten the pats 5 of the last 6 times.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters:
    I think the colts already have.  Since the 06 draft that Rusty wanted to start with, the colts have beaten the pats 5 of the last 6 times.
    Posted by UD6

    You might want to double check that.Laughing
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    whoops - you are right.  4 of the last 6.  Sorry for the mistake.  Still the same conclusion.

    06 twice
    07  - loss
    08
    09
    10 - loss
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters:
    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters : It's all inclusive.  You graduate from college, you get drafted either that day or a little later.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    It is?  "Patriots best drafters" - how could that be inclusive of undrafted players?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters:
    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters : No, no, no it isn't the same conclusion. You beat Matt Cassel at home 18-15. We watched the games.  Belive me. We did.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing

    So you want to take that one away too?  You beat the 1/2 a colts team by an interception at the end of the game last year.  We watched it.  Is that what you mean? 

    Keep slicing.  Anyway you look at it the colts have a winning record vs. the pats since 06, and they've had better drafts. 
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Russell - You are the KING OF ASSUMPTIONS AND MORAL VICTORIES. 

    It doesn't matter if a player should have or should not have been drafted.  Ultimately they either are or they are not.  Giving credit, for picking someone who wasn't drafted because you or someone else believes they should have doesn't matter.  Anyone could say that. 

    The thread, and ultimately the article that was the basis for the thread, was about those players who were drafted.  It didn't consider undrafted players.  Whether or not it should have isn't our place to say.  The writer is allowed that determination.  

    So you bringing up undrafted players on a thread only about drafted players is going off topic.    

    As for beating my chest, I was simply pointing out facts.  Victories are accomplishments and losses are not.  Outplaying another team, real or assumed (as in your case) is meaningless if the scoreboard doesn't reflect the same. 

    Finally, if you are interested in my thoughts about the colts drafts and undrafted selections or pick ups, simply go back and reread some of my posts on this thread.  It's all there and there's no reason for me to restate it. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Really, neither BB nor Polian have been overly great drafters. Without Brady and Manning, their success would likely be mediocre.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    That could be true, Babe. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from gln826. Show gln826's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters:
    Rusty - I was responding to Glen and attempting to compare apples to apples.  *Are you willing to say Maroney is a better pick than Adda or even Gonalez or Ugoh?    *Gonzalez vs. Jackson (Jackson 36th-06; Gonzo 32nd-07).  Gonzalez even with his injuries has been better.   *Brown vs. Chung - (you didn't pick an RB) - Chung's been better. *Hughes has been disappointing but he's was rook behind Freeney and Mathis.  That's tough.  Your pick is better.   *Tate vs. Collie - Collie - easy.  *Garcon vs. Anyone from that draft but Mayo. - Garcon.  Obviously your mayo pick is great.  Merriweather is good but I like Bethea better and he's a better value.    Now, as Tpathetic said, these are about draft picks, but if you feel the need to go there, lets do. Lets look at the udfa's on last year's teams that who never made another team and played only for the pats or colts :  *Jeff Saturday *Gary Brackett *Melvin Bullitt *Aaron Francisco *Jacob Lacey *Gijon Robinson *Blair White *Dominic Rhodes vs. Arrington Green-Ellis Guyton Neal Wright Not much of a comparison, really.  And drafts from 06 to current:  Well, I've already shown that the colts kept a greater percentage of players than the pats from 09-10.  As for 06-08 Pats: Gostkowski, Merriweather, Mayo Colts: Addai, Johnson, Bethea, Gonzalez, Session, Wheeler, Tamme, Garcon. Honestly, I thought maybe the pats had had some better drafts, but after some real analysis, its obvious the colts were better.  Btw - here's what Rick Reilly thought: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6528474 Rusty - you're...  rusty.
    Posted by UD6


    Addai has more yards rushing than Maroney, but doesnt Maroney have a better yards/carry?  More TD runs?  Maroney had a bad injury to his shoulder in his 2nd year, then became a tap-dancer.  On those 2 flip a coin.  Gonzalez, what has he ever done in this league?  So, HE is better than Maroney?  Chad Jackson couldnt run the routes, so BB cut him and took his losses.  Utoh sucked for his career.  BP didnt want to cut his losses, but during his 2nd season was finally done with him.  Now you can say he started 27 games, well there were a lot of starters on the Lions for many games, does it make them good or be able to start on any other team?
    Now, those UDFA, Francisco, Robinson?  Who the hell are those players?  If we(Pats and Colts) played at least 1 a year for the past8 years, dont ya think we should be to identify those players?  Blair White, marginal but he was ok, Saturday, Bracket, good, and Rhodes.
    Even with Meriweathers short comings, Bethea isnt even close, he is closer to Sanders, just a solid player.
    Also, you say about the Pats vs Colts since 2006, how many of those games were played at Indy?  How many times did the Colst get invisible PI calls (2 for and 1 not called in the endzone for the Pats)?  In that AFC Championship game, the Pats got a call from the NFL because the PI on Samuel in the endzone SHOULD HAVE NOT BEEN CALLED, wasnt that on a 3rd and 10 at the 30 yard line!  How about the Cassel game when the Pats were driving for the winning score then a 15 yard penalty call for Thomas finishing his block?
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters:
    In Response to Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters : Addai has more yards rushing than Maroney, but doesnt Maroney have a better yards/carry?  More TD runs?  Maroney had a bad injury to his shoulder in his 2nd year, then became a tap-dancer.  On those 2 flip a coin.  Gonzalez, what has he ever done in this league?  So, HE is better than Maroney?  Chad Jackson couldnt run the routes, so BB cut him and took his losses.  Utoh sucked for his career.  BP didnt want to cut his losses, but during his 2nd season was finally done with him.  Now you can say he started 27 games, well there were a lot of starters on the Lions for many games, does it make them good or be able to start on any other team? Now, those UDFA, Francisco, Robinson?  Who the hell are those players?  If we(Pats and Colts) played at least 1 a year for the past8 years, dont ya think we should be to identify those players?  Blair White, marginal but he was ok, Saturday, Bracket, good, and Rhodes. Even with Meriweathers short comings, Bethea isnt even close, he is closer to Sanders, just a solid player. Also, you say about the Pats vs Colts since 2006, how many of those games were played at Indy?  How many times did the Colst get invisible PI calls (2 for and 1 not called in the endzone for the Pats)?  In that AFC Championship game, the Pats got a call from the NFL because the PI on Samuel in the endzone SHOULD HAVE NOT BEEN CALLED, wasnt that on a 3rd and 10 at the 30 yard line!  How about the Cassel game when the Pats were driving for the winning score then a 15 yard penalty call for Thomas finishing his block?
    Posted by gln826


    Glenn,

    Addai has been to a probowl.  Not Maroney.  Maroney has yet to work in any system.  Addai has had multiple annual injuries but continues to play despite them.  His only issue is health which is why Brown was brought in. 

    Gonzalez is a receiver with a 57 catch season.  He's been injury prone but is significantly better than Jackson who just couldn't (or didn't want to) play.

    Ugoh did start 27 games and played in 37.  Heck as a second rounder as compared to Jackson (for example) Ugoh's a superstar.

    UDFA's Francisco and Robinson - Robinson plays an Hback position for the colts and is important to the team there and on Special Teams.  Francisco wouldn't have been worth much except that after the first 3 SS's went down last year: Sanders, Bullitt (UDFA), Silva (UDFA), Francisco started the rest of the year last year. 

    By the same token, Blair White was great when Gonzalez, Collie, Garcon, Clark, and even Tamme were not at 100% (not to mention injuries to Addai, Brown, and Hart). 

    Bethea (6th rdr) vs. Meriweather (1st rdr) - Bethea's been to 2 probowls and has been the glue for the last 5 yrs in the secondary amidst a huge number of injuries:  Sanders, Bullitt, Jackson, Hayden, Powers, Lacey.  I'll bet Belichick would prefer Bethea to Meriweather if he had the choice.  Oh and Sanders was the 2007 DPOY.  Regardless of his injuries.  That is more than just ok. 

    Finally, complain all you like about calls.  I see it here all year every year.   No one wants to admit to the gift TD given to Gaffney in the 06 AFCCG.  And you all complain about the 09 4th and 2 (you are the only ones).  blah blah blah.  If Belichick had punted the ball in 09, he would have had a chance to win, but he didn't trust the D. 
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Why not compare?  you did.  You compared Ugoh and Jackson by defining them both as busts.  They were also both second round players. 

    Here's the difference regardless of position.  One (Ugoh) started 27 and played in 37.  The other (Jackson) started 1 game and played in 18.  And look, this kid was drafted in 06.  There was never a better opportunity for him to take his position but he didn't.  Not even in 06.  And was so bad that Belichick went out and got 2 receivers the next offseason. 

    Sorry Russ, but this comparison matters. 

    the 4th and 2 call was a correct call.  Just like the tuck call. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Cold, Hard Football Facts = Patriots Best Drafters

    Russ - the media hates polian.  You have no credibility, because you refuse the reality of things. 
     
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