Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

         Could be. The Colts have played two road games against divisional opponents, and lost them both...due primarily to a weak defense. Could DEs Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis finally be slowing down? Or, is their run defense so bad that opposing teams no longer find themselves in those 3rd and long situations...where Mathis and Freeney can just tear loose after the QB? Right now, the Colts look like a 10-6 type team.
    http://www.indystar.com/article/20101004/SPORTS15/10040320/Kravtiz-Even-with-Colts-pedigree-serious-flaws-hard-to-overcome?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Colts

         As for the Pats...there is no pass rush to speak of...and their DL has had difficulties shutting down the run. At home, they are tough. But, on the road, terrible...particularly in the second half. A loss tonight to Miami would place them 1.5 games behind both the Dolphins and Jets...and would seriously dampen their hopes of winning the AFC East: http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo-20101004-patriots-dolphins.1564228f0.html

         Thoughts? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    TP - Colts have to play with the lead.  simple as that.  Not so much the down and distance (although the matters), but the most important thing is the score.  I say this and then I think, well maybe not, because the way teams have been able to click off large gains on the ground makes a ground game just as effective as a short pass offense. 


    Anyway - Mathis was named AFC D player of the month last month, so I don't know how much he is slowing down.  Freeney - I can't really say - but neither of these guys has ever been the best run stopper. 

    MJD has always been a problem for us.  Always.  Add to that our two redzone turnovers combined with 40+ yd returns to put the jags o in good field position and you provide a pretty good recepie for losing a game. 

    Honestly, this game was one of those where the opposing o could have run for 200 yards and the colts still win had they been able to hang on to the ball.  They didn't. 

    Here's the colts biggest issue.  Their entire division possesses good running games.  That does not bode well for the colts, especially if Bullitt is now hurt. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking1. Show harleyroadking1's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    mannings forehead is a flaw, bradys locks are as well. good news is brady can fix his locks , you can't fix a forehead without major surgery.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    The problem with the Colts is that Peyton has to throw 50 times and he seems to have lost his some of his accuracy. He only has one INT, but the other team's DBs have been dropping most of his badly thrown balls. Just last game he threw a pass to Reggie Wayne that David Jones had picked off in the final Colt drive that he was lucky enough to have Jones drop it as he fell to the floor. 

    We're in better shape, Brady accuracy has gotten better and with Welker and Hernandez in the line up he doesn't have to force the ball to Moss as much. We'll see if Peyton's accuracy has taken a hit as the season progress, but if it has the Colts are in trouble. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    Both teams have defensive weaknesses. I think the Pats have one major issue right now: filling the void left by Vrabel and McGinest. TBC can play an ok Vrabel ... but who is going to be the McGinest. 

    The Colts' horizon (however) is what the Pats are dealing with now. In a year or two, every elite defensive player and some offensive lineman they have will be at the stage where they diminish. Freeney, Mathis, and Bracket. It will likely get worse before it gets better. Maybe Hughes pans out big. If he does they have a Freeney or a Mathis. If not they will need some serious help on the side.

    The Tampa-2 that Dungy runs (super light) is designed to play ahead. If you don't like it, you need to accept it as a systemic flaw. Frankly, I see a little of that going on across the NFL as teams have been gearing their defenses to stop multiple WR sets rather than big play-action offenses of yore. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]The problem with the Colts is that Peyton has to throw 50 times and he seems to have lost his some of his accuracy. He only has one INT, but the other team's DBs have been dropping most of his badly thrown balls. Just last game he threw a pass to Reggie Wayne that David Jones had picked off in the final Colt drive that he was lucky enough to have Jones drop it as he fell to the floor.  We're in better shape, Brady accuracy has gotten better and with Welker and Hernandez in the line up he doesn't have to force the ball to Moss as much. We'll see if Peyton's accuracy has taken a hit as the season progress, but if it has the Colts are in trouble. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]
    What are you talking about?  Lost his accuracy?  If you are going to try to be objective about the colts, at least step off of patriot planet to do so. 

    Currently, Manning is completing passes at a rate higher than he ever has before - AND - his receivers have dropped a number of passes. 

    Certainly there was a db that dropped an int yesterday that he should have had, but another came up with one (on a perfectly thrown ball) that he had no business getting.  The point - those breaks go both ways. 

    Maybe you weren't trying to be objective, after all.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    It always hurts when your team is not meeting the high expectations gained from season after season of successes and relative domination.  Peyton Manning is enjoying one of his most statistically best seasonsto date and it appears he has to, otherwise, could the Colts be an 0-fer right now?  I do not think I have ever seen a team rely so much on one player as the Colts do for Manning.  They are fortunate to have him as their QB.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]Both teams have defensive weaknesses. I think the Pats have one major issue right now: filling the void left by Vrabel and McGinest. TBC can play an ok Vrabel ... but who is going to be the McGinest.  The Colts' horizon (however) is what the Pats are dealing with now. In a year or two, every elite defensive player and some offensive lineman they have will be at the stage where they diminish. Freeney, Mathis, and Bracket. It will likely get worse before it gets better. Maybe Hughes pans out big. If he does they have a Freeney or a Mathis. If not they will need some serious help on the side. The Tampa-2 that Dungy runs (super light) is designed to play ahead. If you don't like it, you need to accept it as a systemic flaw. Frankly, I see a little of that going on across the NFL as teams have been gearing their defenses to stop multiple WR sets rather than big play-action offenses of yore. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Right on Z. 

    Some additional thoughts - I think Mathis has a ton left in his tank because up until this year, he wasn't an every down player, but we could see diminishing returns from Freeney in the not so distant future.  I hope I am wrong about that. 

    Certainly the colts have some hopes for Hughes, and I think that they think Angerer may be the perfect replacement for Brackett.  Only time will tell with these things. 

    They do need to figure out their oline for the future. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]It always hurts when your team is not meeting the high expectations gained from season after season of successes and relative domination.  Peyton Manning is enjoying one of his most statistically best seasonsto date and it appears he has to, otherwise, could the Colts be an 0-fer right now?  I do not think I have ever seen a team rely so much on one player as the Colts do for Manning.  They are fortunate to have him as their QB.
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]
    It appeared that the colts had solidified their defense enough to remove this kind of pressure from Manning, but the way the d is playing right now, it feels like those years when the pats whooped up on them.  I am certainly not giving up hope.  Remove those turnovers and the game is the colts even with the Jags running all over them. 

    Every team preaches winning the turnover battle.  The colts have been decent at this.  Not yesterday.  They gave away 2 they shouldn't have. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]mannings forehead is a flaw, bradys locks are as well. good news is brady can fix his locks , you can't fix a forehead without major surgery.
    Posted by harleyroadking[/QUOTE]
      
         LOL!!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]The problem with the Colts is that Peyton has to throw 50 times and he seems to have lost his some of his accuracy. He only has one INT, but the other team's DBs have been dropping most of his badly thrown balls. Just last game he threw a pass to Reggie Wayne that David Jones had picked off in the final Colt drive that he was lucky enough to have Jones drop it as he fell to the floor.  We're in better shape, Brady accuracy has gotten better and with Welker and Hernandez in the line up he doesn't have to force the ball to Moss as much. We'll see if Peyton's accuracy has taken a hit as the season progress, but if it has the Colts are in trouble. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

         Can't agree about Peyton losing his accuracy. He seems to be his same ol' deadly accurate pain in the butt self.

         Plus...even though the Colts haven't been able to stop the run, neither have the Patriots. At least the Indy "D" has edge pass-rushers...which the Pats sorely lack.

         Huge test for the Pats in Miami tonight.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    If they do have similar flaws, I think the Colts gain an advantage because of their division.  We'll soon see just how tough Miami is, and we know the Jets are a solid team.  Are there two similar type opponents in Indy's division?  Perhaps Houston, but that's the only real threat I see there.  Can't remember if Kansas City's in that division, but even if they are, they'll come back down to Earth sooner or later.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]Both teams have defensive weaknesses. I think the Pats have one major issue right now: filling the void left by Vrabel and McGinest. TBC can play an ok Vrabel ... but who is going to be the McGinest.

    RESPONSE: The Pats have been unsuccessfully trying to replace McGinest for years...which is why they paid huge bucks to sign Adalius Thomas. Injuries forced them to move Thomas inside...where he was ill suited...and his game eventually deteriorated. The Monty Beisel failure really hurt, too. As for Banta-Cain doing a good Vrabel...don't think so. Vrabel was a much better all-around LB. Perhaps Tully did a Rosevelt Colvin impersonation. Remember, five of Tully's 9.5 sacks last year came against the lowly Bills. 

    The Colts' horizon (however) is what the Pats are dealing with now. In a year or two, every elite defensive player and some offensive lineman they have will be at the stage where they diminish. Freeney, Mathis, and Bracket. It will likely get worse before it gets better. Maybe Hughes pans out big. If he does they have a Freeney or a Mathis. If not they will need some serious help on the side. The Tampa-2 that Dungy runs (super light) is designed to play ahead. If you don't like it, you need to accept it as a systemic flaw. Frankly, I see a little of that going on across the NFL as teams have been gearing their defenses to stop multiple WR sets rather than big play-action offenses of yore. 

    RESPONSE: Agreed. Hughes evolving into an elite edge rusher is huge for the Colts. I must say that I was encouraged from what I saw from Pats' rookie OLB Jermaine Cunningham last week. If he can provide some athleticism on the edge, so much the better for the "D".  
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]If they do have similar flaws, I think the Colts gain an advantage because of their division.  We'll soon see just how tough Miami is, and we know the Jets are a solid team.  Are there two similar type opponents in Indy's division?  Perhaps Houston, but that's the only real threat I see there.  Can't remember if Kansas City's in that division, but even if they are, they'll come back down to Earth sooner or later.
    Posted by gr82bme[/QUOTE]

         Both teams play in tough divisions...but the AFC East is a bit more top heavy with the Jets, Pats, and 'Fins.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    Come on, stats lie, people! Brady had his second best statistical season last season, it was probably the worst season I've seen from Tom. I keep watching the Colts and I see DBs just dropping easy INTs. Peyton's made about 5 of those passes that if the DBs held on it's over. 


    I'm not taking a shot at Peyton, he's just not as accurate as he has been. All I've been hearing is how Peyton wouldn't have a INT if his TE or WR hadn't dropped that ball, but there have been countless times when the opposing defense just drops an easy INT. 

    It's just not there. Sadly, the Colts don't have to face a tough defense this year. Their toughest defense will be Cinncy, Dallas or us around the time that we might be clicking together. Not much, right? But I wish they faced a Ravens, Steelers or Jets defense this year. Maybe I'm just attacking Peyton just to attack, but he's lost something to me.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws? :      Both teams play in tough divisions...but the AFC East is a bit more top heavy with the Jets, Pats, and 'Fins.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    100% disagree. No one team in that division plays above average defense, except maybe Tenn, and the Colts have the best offense in it. 

    The Jags are below average, The Titans are below average and the Texans are just average, but with more hype. The Jets and Dolphins were built to stop the 2007 New England offense. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws? : 100% disagree. No one team in that division plays above average defense, except maybe Tenn, and the Colts have the best offense in it.  The Jags are below average, The Titans are below average and the Texans are just average, but with more hype. The Jets and Dolphins were built to stop the 2007 New England offense. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

         You are seriously short-changing the Texans, who have been playing of late without star WR Andre Johnson (ankle), LT Duane Brown (4 game suspension), and LB Brian Cushing (returning next week from a 4 game suspension). They have a tough rushing attack, and a very good passing game, when Johnson is healthy. DE Mario Williams is a young Julius Peppers/Richard Seymour.   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    In Response to Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?:
    [QUOTE]Come on, stats lie, people! Brady had his second best statistical season last season, it was probably the worst season I've seen from Tom. I keep watching the Colts and I see DBs just dropping easy INTs. Peyton's made about 5 of those passes that if the DBs held on it's over.  I'm not taking a shot at Peyton, he's just not as accurate as he has been. All I've been hearing is how Peyton wouldn't have a INT if his TE or WR hadn't dropped that ball, but there have been countless times when the opposing defense just drops an easy INT.  It's just not there. Sadly, the Colts don't have to face a tough defense this year. Their toughest defense will be Cinncy, Dallas or us around the time that we might be clicking together. Not much, right? But I wish they faced a Ravens, Steelers or Jets defense this year. Maybe I'm just attacking Peyton just to attack, but he's lost something to me.
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

         Thanks for putting me in a position where I have to defend Peyton Manning! Come on, now...are you seriously saying that he hasn't faced top defenses over the years...that he's only played against chumps...and has been lucky?? 

         If so...the guy has been lucky for 10 straight years now, including this season. Here are his stats through 4 games:

    1.) @ Houston (L 24-34): 40/57, for 433 yards, 3 TDs, no picks, 109.8 rating;

    2.) NY Giants (W 38-14): 20/26, for 255 yards, 3 TDs, no picks, 145.5 rating;

    3.) @ Denver (W 27-13): 27/43, for 325 yards, 3 TDs, no picks, 109.2 rating;

    4.) @ Jaguars (L 28-31): 33/46, for 352 yards, 2 TDs, one pick, 99.2 rating.

         If you saw the Jacksonville game, you'll know that Manning threw a pass to a reserve TE inside the 3 yard line. His perfectly thrown pass hit the TE right on his stone hands, bounced off, and was picked off...and returned 50 yards. It's the play that pretty cost the Colts the game: 

         "Tight end Brody Eldridge dropped a pass near the goal line in the third quarter. Anthony Smith made a shoelace grab on the ball and returned it near midfield. David Garrard found Marcedes Lewis over the middle for a 15-yard TD pass a few plays later, putting Jacksonville ahead 21-14." 

         It's also fair to note that Manning has put up those numbers pretty much without Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. At his current pace, Manning will throw 44 TD passes, and have 4 picks. Yeah...pretty lucky.  
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Colts and Pats Have Similar Flaws?

    Both have defensive shortcomings.  Indy's are largely age and injuries to key guys.  Pats are largely youth and inexperience.  Given the choice, I'll take the latter because it will get better as the season progresses. 

    Indy also has the SB loser curse to deal with.
     

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