Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    The difference is that they were able to improve.  Remember when they had a sucky d but could score a ton of points? Now, they've got a decent defense when Sanders is playing - and they've been able to replace their WRs w/ some pretty good ones. Lastly, their offensive line is probabaly top 3.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

         Brad:

         I share in your frustration, my friend. But, the Colts won't be "rebuilding" until Manning starts to slip, gets hurt, or retires. In addition, the truth of the matter is that, in Bill Polian, the Colts have the best personnel man in the business. Somehow, someway, he finds good players late in the draft, or through free agency. 

         For example:
     
    1.) WR Austin Collie was the 127th player selected in the 2009 draft;
     
    2.) Punter Pat McAfee was the 222nd player taken in the 2009 draft;

    3.) WR Pierre Garcon was the 205th player selected in the 2008 draft;

    4.) LB Clint Sessions was the 136th player taken in the 2007 draft;

    5.) Strong safety Melvin Bullitt was an undrafted free agent in 2007;

    6.) LT Charlie Johnson was the 199th player taken in the 2006 draft;

    7.) Safety Antoine Bethea was the 207th player selected in the 2006 draft;

    8.) DE/ILB Robert Mathis was the 138th player selected in the 2003 draft;

    9.) MLB Gary Brackett was signed as an undrafted free agent in 2003.

      
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    When either Manning's health fails or Polian slips up in the draft.

    The Colts HAVE to have both things in order to sustain their success.  They don't have the money to be major players in free agency on a regular basis.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    Stability is the only positive word I would say when referring to the Colts.  Although I hate them I do think they have been able to replace pieces on the run and pick right up.

    They've had the same coaching staff in place for a long time including the OC.  This has given them a very expert knowledge of their system and who fits in it.  The same minds are drafting players year in and year out so they just keep matching needs and personnel.

    They know who they have and what they need and bring those guys in.  They do also have a very solid OL, this has been their key to success.  When they need to replace those guys is when you might see a rebuilding year.  If Manning is on his behind he can't complete passes, as long as the OL protects him they'll keep in their ways.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    I second that, their much better drafting over the span of 2006-2008 is why they have not fallen and we are rebuilding a little bit.  Sadly for this and probably next year too.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    What is this nonsense about Indy not rebuilding? They rebuilt last season.

    They had a subpar record, less talent, struggled more (especially on offense) and were not good enough to get out of the first round. 

    They lost in both cases to a team that did not represent the AFC in the championship.

    There was a lull in Indy between 2007-2008, just like NE faced a lull this season. 

    The moral is . . . when making the playoffs and losing is a "rebuilding year," your team is pretty good.

    So quit whining. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaws213. Show jaws213's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    When their QB forgets how to lead them to 4th QTR comebacks. It will eventually happen but I don't see it happening soon. Brady needs his mojo back.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rxmsg. Show rxmsg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    Colts lose Marvin Harrison...so what do they do?  Draft two WR's late and hit the jackpot with both with Collie & Gracon.

    I don't see the Pat's doing that...what up with that?

    Pat's WR's?  All via trades or FA's.
    Same with RB's

    Colts do a superior job in evaluating personel.

    Pats need to hire a competent talent evaluator.
    BB and staff are dropping the ball here....

    Our drafts are either busts or slow in developing.

    Our luck with the draft in the early 2000's has run out and we are seeing the
    results now.

    This team is suddenly very flawed.  I don't expect a quick turnaround.
    Looks to be a slow and painful process.

    We can bash Bill Polian but he sure knows talent.
    I get the sense that BB is too arrogant to see that maybe just maybe he
    doesn't know it all. 

    He did a great job early (and I am thankful for that)...but his decisions have
    have blown up the team recently.

    There are no more Bobby Hamiltons or Roman Pfiers out there to build around.
    That well has long dried out.

    Gosh I hope I am totally wrong about all of this  !!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    Not hard to figure this one out.  It's no secret that the Pats had a string of 3 very average drafts.  We started to turn the corner with last year's draft, but we need 2-3 more good drafts to make up for a few bad ones.  The Colts however, seldom have a bad draft.  How many players on their team weren't drafted by them?  How many on our team weren't drafted by us?  A lot, and it seems to go up every year.

    You can say a lot of things about Polian, and we usually do on this board.  The one thing you can't say is that he's a bad judge of talent.  Between the Bills during their SB years and now the Colts, the guy knows how to spot personnel.  Ditto for AJ down in San Diego.  I'm not sure I like those two as GM's, but they are the two best evaluators of personnel in the league.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rxmsg. Show rxmsg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    carawaydj.....  You bascically said what I was saying in my post.....very few home grown players on the Pats roster when capared to the Colts and Bolts.

    BB suddenly cannot spot talent....what went wrong?  Is it the drain of support
    staff in the last few years?  I dunno.... maybe we need to stop trading down and
    draft some serious 1st round talent?  But look at the talent Polian keeps finding late in the draft.  Something is amiss in Foxborough these days. 

    Here's to hoping we are are soo very wrong  !!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    In Response to Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?:
    carawaydj.....  You bascically said what I was saying in my post.....very few home grown players on the Pats roster when capared to the Colts and Bolts. BB suddenly cannot spot talent....what went wrong?  Is it the drain of support staff in the last few years?  I dunno.... maybe we need to stop trading down and draft some serious 1st round talent?  But look at the talent Polian keeps finding late in the draft.  Something is amiss in Foxborough these days.  Here's to hoping we are are soo very wrong  !!!
    Posted by rxmsg


    Well we did draft better last year, and that is why I credit Floyd Reese with that.  Reese drafted 3 Rookie of the Years with the Titans.  I was more critical of our FA/personnel moves last year than I was the draft.  We really made some bizarre personnel decisions this year.  That's what is puzzling.  You have a good reason for missing on draft prospects.  It's much harder to excuse missing on players who have been in the league a while and have a ton of NFL tape to look at.  I'm not ready to draw and conclusions from this yet.  Next season will tell us if "BB the GM" has regained his mojo, or if it's slipped away.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hooterdawg. Show hooterdawg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

     It's very difficult to compare one organization's success against another. Stability is a big factor.Belichick has sent too many Pat veterans packing over his tenure. Even if those players were not as successful in their new locations,they were successful in the Pats system. Pat fans always trusted BB vs.departing veterans - often jeering the ex-Pats for disloyalty. But look at the cumulative price the Pats have paid for being a flashy FA team vs. home grown talent who were paid for their contributions when their rookie contracts expired. The Colts have paid their home grown talent handsomely - Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders, Jeff Saturday...and others. ( even if Sanders has been injured recently, his broad experience is obviously very valuable for the rookies coming aboard).  It seems the Pats approach of dumping vets too early is not succeeding anymore. It has allowed too many holes to occur at once. There is a void of the 'system' veterans who have left the team. To some extent, Brady may not be the broad team ' assistant coach' that Manning is. The team has decayed around him, whereas the Colts seem to stabilize around Manning and the other Colt vets. Colts players know if they deliver outstanding performance, they will be paid to stay.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    The Pats had a good team with Veterans who were still fairly young when
    Brady arrived to put them over the top.  Those Players got older.  The Colts started with a QB and then had to develop the team around him.  They are probably reaching thier peak now.  I would estimate the Pats peaked around 2003.  I would say the core players for the Pats were
                         age            age in 2004
    Brady              32                  26
    Seymour          30                  24
    Bruschi            36                  30
    Mcginest          38                  32     
    Harrison           37                  31
    Light               31                  25

    The Colts core consists of

    Manning           33
    Wayne             31
    Clark                30
    Freeney            29
    Saturday          34
    Bethea             25

    Players seem to reach thier maximum (except QB's) between 25 and 32 when they have experience and are still young enough to compete athletically.  That is where the Colts are now and that is where the Pats were in thier best years.  The Colts will have to face tough decisions when these key players reach contract years and they are 32, 33, 34 years old.  It isn't wise to sign someone that old to a long contract.  So they probably rebuild in 2 to 4 more years.  Can they rebuild while Manning is under 40?  Who knows.  During the years both these teams had thier core of talent in place they were able to plug anybody in and make it work.  We'll see if the Colts can do that when thier veteran stars leave.  FYI, the only guy in that group drafted after 2004 was Bethea.

    Compare that to the current Core of the Pats
    Brady     32
    Wilfork    28
    Mayo     23
    Welker    28
    Moss      32
    Vollmer?  25

    Whether these guys are truly the core of the future or not is unknown.  There are not enough pieces in place and a couple will probably change.  If they continue and get more out of a few more guys (Edelman, Butler, the next draft pick?) than this crew should ripen in 2-5 years.  Although I don't think replacing the core of the Pats dynasty or the Colts will be that easy.  Chances are they never get a group of guys with that much talent and leadership at the right age together again.  But I'm still hopeful.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    posted at 1/25/2010 9:53 AM EST
    Posts: 4365
    First: 3/20/2006
    Last: 1/25/2010
    What is this nonsense about Indy not rebuilding? They rebuilt last season.

    They had a subpar record, less talent, struggled more (especially on offense) and were not good enough to get out of the first round. 

    They lost in both cases to a team that did not represent the AFC in the championship.

    There was a lull in Indy between 2007-2008, just like NE faced a lull this season. 

    The moral is . . . when making the playoffs and losing is a "rebuilding year," your team is pretty good.

    So quit whining. 
    Ditto.  The Colts lost in the first round of the playoffs practically every year this decade.  They never got built in the first place.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

         Hey guys...do you think Chris Gasper reads our posts for ideas? Here's my post that I composed about 7 a.m.:     

         Brad:

         I share in your frustration, my friend. But, the Colts won't be "rebuilding" until Manning starts to slip, gets hurt, or retires. In addition, the truth of the matter is that, in Bill Polian, the Colts have the best personnel man in the business. Somehow, someway, he finds good players late in the draft, or through free agency. 

         For example:
     
    1.) WR Austin Collie was the 127th player selected in the 2009 draft;
     
    2.) Punter Pat McAfee was the 222nd player taken in the 2009 draft;

    3.) WR Pierre Garcon was the 205th player selected in the 2008 draft;

    4.) LB Clint Sessions was the 136th player taken in the 2007 draft;

    5.) Strong safety Melvin Bullitt was an undrafted free agent in 2007;

    6.) LT Charlie Johnson was the 199th player taken in the 2006 draft;

    7.) Safety Antoine Bethea was the 207th player selected in the 2006 draft;

    8.) DE/ILB Robert Mathis was the 138th player selected in the 2003 draft;

    9.) MLB Gary Brackett was signed as an undrafted free agent in 2003.

         Here's Gasper's article, which was posted at 2:43 p.m.: http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/gasper/2010/01/patriots_are_fe.html

         Just a coincidence?  

        
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hooterdawg. Show hooterdawg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    The Colts won one Superbowl and are working on a 2nd since the Mighty Patriots won anything important. I think the point is valid that the best teams in this league don't rebuild - they reload on the fly. It's apparent that the AFC East will have 3 teams reloading in 2010. It is no longer the Pats playground. As for the Colts, they are headed to the Superbowl with a rookie HC and new faces throughout the roster.   
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    The Colts were rebuilding from about 99-03, they are done now and will probably rebuild again in a few years.  The Pats started rebuilding around 07-08, and should finish in 2010 or 2011 if they're lucky.  Don't buy all the hype about the Colts draft lately, all thier stars are from drafts prior to 04.  The pats plugged in pieces and made them work when thier roster was stacked with leadership too.  Let's see if guys like Garcon, Collie and Bullitt can carry the torch when Freeney, Clark, Saturday and Wayne are in the decline in a few years.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    LOL - TP your gushing admiration of yourself is incredible.  Did you teach T.O.?  

    Hey, Look at Me.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    In Response to Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?:
         Hey guys...do you think Chris Gasper reads our posts for ideas?...
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Yes, I absolutely do.  While I do not think they choose any particular post, as much as a "post trend", I have notice more than a few times how some of the topics here end up as articles.  It only makes sense if they are doing this.  Wouldn't you do the same?  Of course, a lot of it is probably coincidence too.  If we're thinking about it, they probably are too.  I had a similar thought as you a while back.  I had made several posts asking the rhetorical question; how long can a system remain relevant.  Gasper ran an article a few days later basically covering the same topic using the same arguments.  I attributed it to a coincidence though.  I was hardly the only one thinking this, or even talking about it here.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    The Snuggie, that was mine. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

         LOL!!! Dogg(gg)...you are a very poor winner. You're Colts have the upper hand right now, and, to my mind, are the best team in the league. That said, I take you for a front runner. You have no class. You come visiting here, claiming you're not a troll...yet you're rubbing everyone's nose into the ground about your team. 

         If the Saints should somehow beat your ponies...I want to see if your as good at handling losing, as you are bad at handling winning.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    LOL!!!! - not everyone's nose - just your's and root's and those who endlessly want to claim either implicitly or explicitly that the only way the colts win is because of bogus calls in their favor.  Frankly, I really haven't gloated much. 

    But I will always defend the colts against those who want to claim that they are not that good (a frequent taunt), they only win because of refs (a frequent taunt), that they don't play anyone (a frequent taunt), that they were wimps for not going for an undefeated season (I wonder who was all over that), etc, etc, etc. and on and on and on. 

    Seems that now that the colts have clearly demonstrated that they are the class of the AFC, you are suddenly acting humble, hurt, and offended that I might have a little fun at your expense.  Seems to me that you like to dish it out, but don't know how to take it when it is your turn. 

    I have handled losing and controversy so much better than you, because when it happens (and it has, plenty), I show up to take my lumps as a man should.  You won't find a negative comment on this board from me about the pats loss to the Ravens.  As for the Saints - they have demonstrated that they have what it takes to beat anyone.  Last night is great proof, because although they did not play as well as Minn, they did not make stupid mistakes but kept fighting and were rewarded for it.  

    If the colts lose, I'll be here.  I always am.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

         Dogg(gg)...you said:

         "LOL!!!! - not everyone's nose - just your's and root's and those who endlessly want to claim either implicitly or explicitly that the only way the colts win is because of bogus calls in their favor.  Frankly, I really haven't gloated much.

    RESPONSE: Yeah, right. "Does anyone feel like dancing", or "SB a Manning fest", ring a bell?? As for claiming that the only way the Colts win is because they get calls in their favor, thats' the fact, jack...until this season. As I've stated throughout the football year, I've never seen Peyton Manning play so well. The Colts have earned everything they've attained so far, in 2009.   
     
    But I will always defend the colts against those who want to claim that they are not that good (a frequent taunt), they only win because of refs (a frequent taunt), that they don't play anyone (a frequent taunt), that they were wimps for not going for an undefeated season (I wonder who was all over that), etc, etc, etc. and on and on and on.

    RESPONSE: They were wimps for not going for perfection. But, in retrospect, I can understand Polian's reasons for passing of perfection, even though he wasn't entirely honest about those reasons. He didn't pull his players only because he feared injuries. He pulled them because he did not want his team to go 16-0...and have that added pressure on his players and, specifically, Peyton, during the play-offs. Defend Peyton if you will, but we all know that he has struggled handling playoff pressure, throughout his career. 
     
    Seems that now that the colts have clearly demonstrated that they are the class of the AFC, you are suddenly acting humble, hurt, and offended that I might have a little fun at your expense.  Seems to me that you like to dish it out, but don't know how to take it when it is your turn. 

    RESPONSE: Dream on, son. Throughout the season, I've been consistent in my grudging praise, and respect for the Colts. I had them as #2 in my power ratings, only behind the Saints, after the first quarter on the year. When the Saints lost, I elevated them to #1. Furthermore, I have complimented Peyton Manning all season long...saying that I've never seen him play so well...and defended his selection as MVP. I've also picked the Colts to win in every playoff game, and in the SB. Finally, though it killed me to do so, I gave Bill Polian his props as the best personnel man in the business...though I do think he was a wimp for foregoing perfection. Ask yourself this...wouldn't it be far more exciting and special if the Colts were going for 19-0 now...instead of just a SB championship?

         But, thats' OK, troll. We all know here what a classless phony you are.

    I have handled losing and controversy so much better than you, because when it happens (and it has, plenty), I show up to take my lumps as a man should.

    RESPONSE: LOL!! When have I not been here? Win or lose, I draft the Patriots' report cards. Believe me, sometimes, its' been a very painful chore. I criticize the Pats when they deserve to be criticized...and hand out grudging praise to opposing teams, when its' deserved. I am always here to be found.   

    You won't find a negative comment on this board from me about the pats loss to the Ravens.  As for the Saints - they have demonstrated that they have what it takes to beat anyone.  Last night is great proof, because although they did not play as well as Minn, they did not make stupid mistakes but kept fighting and were rewarded for it.  

    RESPONSE: Thats' because you were relieved to see the Pats so weak, and gone. Speaking of weak, I give you the New Orleans Saints. They peaked too early. The Vikings were able to move up and down the field on their defense. The Saints were extremely lucky to beat the Vikings...who literally fumbled away a SB trip. No way that handle Indy. 

    If the colts lose, I'll be here.  I always am.
     
    RESPONSE: We'll see. But, not to worry. The Colts, who are favored by 5, will beat the Saints by 10-14 points. Incidently, what did you do to cause the Mods to ban you again, so that you were forced to add another (g)?
    LOL!!!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    I see.  So I am not allowed to express my joy - dancing.  The manningfest thread is absolutely true.  A manning on one team and the current face of the franchise (until someone like Brees becomes it) who once played for the other team is also a manning. 

    It is hilarious that you think I should have to temper my joy.  I didn't say the pats s*ck. 

    And no, it is not a fact that the only way the colts won before (btw - if that's the case, how come so many complaints this year?) is through bogus calls.  Boy, do you love to express your opinion as fact.  BTW, in the AFCCG 06, the pats got their make up call with the Gaffney gift TD. 

    As far as Manning earning everything this year, you are the first and only on this board to say it.

    You can't qualify your opinion of the Colts choice to rest now that they've made the SB.  You had a field day attempting to rub my nose in this, and yet you never saw me whine about it.  I just responded and defended.  Man up.

    And please spare me the honesty thing.  He was as honest as he could be.  neither you nor I get to know all the inner workings of any team.  Polian may not have wanted any of the first stringers to play in buffalo, but may have compromised with the team to allow the milestones for Wayne and Clark which (as you know given Painters prior performance) required Manning to play.  Besides as in previous years, even when resting starters, they gave the first string 1 or 2 series to keep them sharp, then pulled them.  You cannot be a pats fan and question the honesty of other organizations.  Its hypocritical.

    I disagree with the manning success thing since his SB.  I will defend until the day I die his performances in 07 and 08 against the Chargers.  He was as good as he needed to be for the team to win in those games. 

    Sorry TP - your grudging praise was heaped with ridicule when available and now you are acting like a dog with his tail between his legs claiming unfairness from me.  And then the troll comment.  LOL.  Little TP can't handle a little adversity on his precious board.  Again - its easy for your to dish it out, but boy are you less than mature about taking it.  Man up.

    As far as the pats are concerned, they are not that weak.  They've got some work to do.  A Thomas issue is a big blow.  He was probably projected to be one of the defensive leaders to take the place of Bruschi.  That hasn't worked.  They need a Patriots guy to step up on the D side of the ball.  I assume Wilfork is not that guy.  There are plenty of people who are great players but not leaders.  Is that Wilfork?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogggg. Show underdogggg's posts

    Re: Colts have been up for almost as long as the Patriots - when does their rebuilding start?

    P.S. As stated before I really don't have a life outside of this forum and the Colts. That's why I come here and rub it in. Once the Colts stop winning I will be gone.
     
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