Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Patty, to appease and enable your laziness.  http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2009-09-09/sporting-news-nfl-top-100-peyton-manning-no-1-on-our-experts-list http://top100.nfl.com/all-time-100
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         Interesting that you failed to mention that out of 106 so-called "experts", Brady garnered the most first-place votes with 50, to your lover boy's 35. Additionally, this article was generated on September 14, 2009. So, it was written immediately after Brady had missed the entire 2008 season due to a knee injury...when it was unknown whether he could fully recovery from such a serious injury. Surely this impacted those voters who failed to give Tom first or second place votes. Finally, because this article was written in 2009, the alleged experts did not take into account Brady's 2010 MVP season.

         Moving on, you continue to dodge my questions:

    True or False:

    1.) Peyton Manning has had better receivers to work with over his career than Tom Brady?

    2.) Playing in a climate controlled dome has aided Manning in accumulating his gaudy stats?

    3.) Joe Montana was a better QB than Dan Marino?

         "We"  look forward to your response.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]UD6, I'll try this another way. In all honesty who do think id better, Joe Montana or Dan Marino?
    Posted by Sam-Adams[/QUOTE]

         Sorry, Sam...but your question is flawed. How? Because you preface it with the words, "In all honesty...". As "we" all know by now, The Dog(gggg) is incapable of answering questions honestly. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3ab831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:b831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5Post:a48541b5-34ef-4e70-b284-44c2265563d7">Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Sorry, Sam...but your question is flawed. How? Because you preface it with the words, "In all honesty...". As " we" all know by now, The Dog(gggg) is incapable of answering questions honestly. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Tex, even if you ignore the fact that Brady makes a solid case to be just as good as Manning stats wise the only reason they play this game is to win superbowls right? For him to say "that's all he has" is the stupidist thing I've heard him say. Let's see........what was more important in 2007, the TD pass record......the undefeated run......no, it was losing the only game that mattered.

    UD6, you're an idiot. On a scale of importance what's a SB win versus a regular season MVP? Do you honestly think they cancel?

    Loser! 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3ab831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:b831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5Post:a48541b5-34ef-4e70-b284-44c2265563d7 " /> Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Tex, even if you ignore the fact that Brady makes a solid case to be just as good as Manning stats wise the only reason they play this game is to win superbowls right? For him to say "that's all he has" is the stupidist thing I've heard him say. Let's see........what was more important in 2007, the TD pass record......the undefeated run......no, it was losing the only game that mattered. UD6, you're an idiot. On a scale of importance what's a SB win versus a regular season MVP? Do you honestly think they cancel? Loser! 
    Posted by Sam-Adams[/QUOTE]

    Excellent point Sam. As an example I can tell you who won the super bowl for each of the last 10-15 years, but I couldn't tell you who won the MVP two years ago!
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Excellent point Sam. As an example I can tell you who won the super bowl for each of the last 10-15 years, but I couldn't tell you who won the MVP two years ago!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

         I bet that The Dog(gggg), and most Colts fans, can tell us whose been the NFL MVP for each year during the past 10-15 years. Colts fans tend to ignore team achievements. Over a decade of Peyton Manning chokes have  conditioned them not to expect championships. Instead, they have evolved into channeling their passions on the personal exploits of their star QB, rather than focusing on the exploits of their team.

         Examples of similar fan behavior evolved in Detroit, where long sufdfering Lions' fans focused on the personal exploits of RB Barry Sanders, in Denver, where John Elway's play was the pivotal point in the minds of Bronco fans...until Elway slowed, and RB Terrell Davis (who should be in the Hall of Fame) led the Broncos to back to back titles in the late 90s...and in Cleveland, where Cavalier fans once worshipped the ground that LeBron James walk on.

         But, don't take my word for it. If you go to the Indy Star, they have a feature in their sports section known as, "The Manning Meter". It focuses on Manning's statistical climb in the NFL record books: http://www.indystar.com/article/99999999/SPORTS0301/100916010&template=interactive     
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Well, he did overtake him. That's the key. And this despite an injury many guys never come back from. And again you ignore the venue. Brady's passer rating is nearly 4 points better outdoors (and in worse weather when he is outdoors than Manning) and is nearly 5 points better indoors. Brady's 111-32 record is quite better than Manning's 141-67. As is his 14-5 playoff record compared to Manning's 9-9. As far as MVP Manning has a tie (let's give him 1/2, and 3 others, one VERY dubious) and Brady has a comeback of the year award and a sportsman of the year award (the one no NFL player had gotten since Montana). Plus Brady has 2 SBMVPs to Manning's one. Oh, and there is Brady's only time ever unanimous MVP. And then of course there are the 3 SB rings to one. It's not very close, Brady wins. You are rather desparately clinging to the votes of writers to carry your case that Manning is better, at the expense of all other measures most persons consider. (And the dink and dunk comment is just spin. Their career Y/A is within just about 12" of each other, their average per completion, less than that.)
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
    Babe, but he's got a worse rating than Manning in the postseason, which is supposedly (according to many here) where Brady separates himself from Manning.  How does that happen?

    As for the injury.  I disagree.  I've had both of my acl's reconstructed in my early 20's and played basketball on them for 15 years after.  The docs have known how to repair these ligments for the last 25 years.  What has come a long way is how to rehab the repaired knee.  I do give Brady credit for having the drive to do the rehab and get back.  Some don't put the time in, and that is when the repaired knee does not return to 95-100%. 

    I am not sure how Brady's ratings indoors and outdoors could be 5 and 4 points higher than Manning when his overall Reg Season rating is only .3 pts better.  That math doesn't work. 

    Now, when you start using team records to explain Brady's greatness, that's where I have a problem.  Again, Brady had the benefit of a legendary defense, during the superbowl run - Manning, not.  Some credit has to be given to the other side of the ball, and even the kicker for the team's success. 

    Finally, I don't give any credence to a comment that something Manning has earned is dubious, that's fandom speaking - especially when you criticize me for using the same writer awards that you trumpet when praising Brady.  Manning has 4 MVP's to Brady's 2.  He has 5 - 1st Team All-Pro Selections and 3 - 2nd team All-Pro selections to Brady's 2 1st team All Pro Selections.  That is a flat out ridiculous difference.  Manning was also selected in 2005 as the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year.

    The one thing I want to be clear about is that although I believe Manning is better, that doesn't make Brady bad.  These guys are the best in the game and have been over the past decade.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Interesting that you failed to mention that out of 106 so-called "experts", Brady garnered the most first-place votes with 50, to your lover boy's 35. Additionally, this article was generated on September 14, 2009. So, it was written immediately after Brady had missed the entire 2008 season due to a knee injury...when it was unknown whether he could fully recovery from such a serious injury. Surely this impacted those voters who failed to give Tom first or second place votes. Finally, because this article was written in 2009, the alleged experts did not take into account Brady's 2010 MVP season.      Moving on, you continue to dodge my questions: True or False: 1.) Peyton Manning has had better receivers to work with over his career than Tom Brady? 2.) Playing in a climate controlled dome has aided Manning in accumulating his gaudy stats? 3.) Joe Montana was a better QB than Dan Marino?      " We"  look forward to your response.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Patty, you can rationalize the reason why Manning won the vote all you like.  It won't ever change the fact that Manning was voted #1.  And the NFL vote was done in 2010, so the 09 excuse does not work.  Manning #8 all time, Brady #22. 

    As for your questions - there's no need for me to entertain them until you are decent enough to answer mine which has now been asked and avoided by you twice. 

    I'll know whether or not you are interested in engaging in a discussion or whether or not you simply wish to direct it, by your response. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3ab831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:b831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5Post:a48541b5-34ef-4e70-b284-44c2265563d7 " /> Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Tex, even if you ignore the fact that Brady makes a solid case to be just as good as Manning stats wise the only reason they play this game is to win superbowls right? For him to say "that's all he has" is the stupidist thing I've heard him say. Let's see........what was more important in 2007, the TD pass record......the undefeated run......no, it was losing the only game that mattered. UD6, you're an idiot. On a scale of importance what's a SB win versus a regular season MVP? Do you honestly think they cancel? Loser! 
    Posted by Sam-Adams[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the compliments, Sam. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Rusty - I happen to agree with you.  Even if Brady never won another superbowl, but continued his excellent play, while Manning's play deteriorated (if that happens), he would likely end up being considered better than Manning. 

    And I agree that Brady is better than he was 5 years ago, which contributes to my contention that the pats defenses had a huge hand in all of those postseason victories early in Brady's career. 

    Montana was pretty spectacular.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Montana was pretty spectacular.

    UD6, really? Now this certainly doesn't look like an answer.


    Well we're waiting.............
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Sorry Sam - I've just never compared Manning and Montana.  I'll just say this.  There was something magical about Joe Montana.  He was a 1st team all-pro 3x and 2nd team all-pro 2x.    

    The thing is he may have also had one of the most dominant defenses of his time.  If you look at the opposition's score in playoff games from 84-90, in 14 playoff games, the opposition scored more than 17 points only twice. 

    Pretty amazing.  He won 3 of his superbowls during that time. 

    All of that said, I'd still have to say Montana is probably better, but I can't say unequivically.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    I don't want to hear about coaching, Rusty.  All I've ever heard is about how belichick is the best coach ever on this board.  The system Brady is in has been handed down from Weis to McDaniel to O'brien.  Manning's had 3 different head coaches and 2 coordinators. 

    And I agree that the 32-29 SB - Brady was spectacular. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Patty, you can rationalize the reason why Manning won the vote all you like.  It won't ever change the fact that Manning was voted #1.  And the NFL vote was done in 2010, so the 09 excuse does not work.  Manning #8 all time, Brady #22.

    RESPONSE: More lies. How does the alleged "2009 excuse" not work? The article you cited was published on September 9, 2009. I understand your aversion to facts, but the facts are that Brady received 50 first place votes, to Manning's 35...and that's after he had missed the entire 2008 season...was an unknown quantity going into 2009...and that this was done prior to his 2010 MVP season.
         As for Manning being listed as 8th all-time, and Brady 22nd, aren't the same people who came up  with this cockeyed list the ones who named Jerry Rice the greatest football player of all-time?    


    As for your questions - there's no need for me to entertain them until you are decent enough to answer mine which has now been asked and avoided by you twice.

    RESPONSE: "We" all know about your cowardly aversion to answering direct questions. So...none of us are surprised...LOL!!! 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]I don't want to hear about coaching, Rusty.  All I've ever heard is about how belichick is the best coach ever on this board.  The system Brady is in has been handed down from Weis to McDaniel to O'brien.  Manning's had 3 different head coaches and 2 coordinators.  And I agree that the 32-29 SB - Brady was spectacular. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         Dome sweet dome...LOL!!!
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Sorry Sam - I've just never compared Manning and Montana.  I'll just say this.  There was something magical about Joe Montana.  He was a 1st team all-pro 3x and 2nd team all-pro 2x.     The thing is he may have also had one of the most dominant defenses of his time.  If you look at the opposition's score in playoff games from 84-90, in 14 playoff games, the opposition scored more than 17 points only twice.  Pretty amazing.  He won 3 of his superbowls during that time.  All of that said, I'd still have to say Montana is probably better, but I can't say unequivically.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         You do realize that  Sam's point was that Brady is like Montana, and Mr. Wonderful is like Marino (all stats, and no titles). You do agree that Marino was better than Manning, don't you? You also agree that Montana is better than Mr. Pencilneck, don't you?
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Despite all the stats for each QB; inside a dome vs outside weather, good recievers vs bad recievers, multiple head coaches vs one head coach, how many 1st team all pro vs second team all pro, MVP's, Man of the year awards, SI covers, who has the prettiest wife ect ect ect. I think we can all agree on one thing (even you UD6); I would rather have the three parades than 1 parade and a bunch of individual awards. And I think you would to dog. Thanks for those memories TB12!!
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Babe, but he's got a worse rating than Manning in the postseason, which is supposedly (according to many here) where Brady separates himself from Manning.  How does that happen? As for the injury.  I disagree.  I've had both of my acl's reconstructed in my early 20's and played basketball on them for 15 years after.  The docs have known how to repair these ligments for the last 25 years.  What has come a long way is how to rehab the repaired knee.  I do give Brady credit for having the drive to do the rehab and get back.  Some don't put the time in, and that is when the repaired knee does not return to 95-100%.  I am not sure how Brady's ratings indoors and outdoors could be 5 and 4 points higher than Manning when his overall Reg Season rating is only .3 pts better.  That math doesn't work.  Now, when you start using team records to explain Brady's greatness, that's where I have a problem.  Again, Brady had the benefit of a legendary defense, during the superbowl run - Manning, not.  Some credit has to be given to the other side of the ball, and even the kicker for the team's success.  Finally, I don't give any credence to a comment that something Manning has earned is dubious, that's fandom speaking - especially when you criticize me for using the same writer awards that you trumpet when praising Brady.  Manning has 4 MVP's to Brady's 2.  He has 5 - 1st Team All-Pro Selections and 3 - 2nd team All-Pro selections to Brady's 2 1st team All Pro Selections.  That is a flat out ridiculous difference.  Manning was also selected in 2005 as the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year. The one thing I want to be clear about is that although I believe Manning is better, that doesn't make Brady bad.  These guys are the best in the game and have been over the past decade.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Your argument cannot be taken seriously UD6, because your logic is deeply flawed.

    You tout Manning's MVPs and Pro Bowls as being a decisive factor and dismiss SBs or W/L record as being a "team" accomplishment. Yet winning an MVP or being named to a pro bowl is just as dependant on the play of teammates as the other. You can't have your cake and eat it too, and expect to be considered as objective.

    Again, you ignore the pertinent that doesn't fit your opinion, and that makes your assessment invalid.


    The numbers for indoors/outdoors are as follows.

    Indoors: Brady - 103.1, Manning - 98.7

    Outdoors: Brady - 94.4, Manning - 90.8

    Here is a source for the stats.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256/splits;_ylt=Alr_eMImvmPprZp1Mibspcf.uLYF?year=career

    And the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year is about charity work, so I have no idea why you even mention it in this context.


    (To help you understand why the career total PR is closer than the separated is because Manning has played 10 times as many games indoors as Brady.)
     
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