Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Okay, let's put to rest the opinion that the Pat's D has been consistently better over the careers of Brady/Manning.

    Total defense:

    2001: Pats better than Colts.

    2002 - Colts better than Pats

    2003 Pats better than Colts.

    2004 Pats better than Colts.

    2005 Colts better than Pats.

    2006 Pats better than Colts.

    2007 Colts better than Pats.

    2008 Colts better than Pats.

    2009 Pats better than Colts.

    2010 Pats better than Colts.

    Over the last decade the Pats have been better 6 times to the Colt's 4 times. That certainly isn't the decisive domination implied by some that shows Brady's SB wins were due to a "legendary" defense.

    Let's try to avoid spin and be taken seriously when we make a contention.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    And yet you still haven't answered.  What's important,TP, draft position or play on the field? 

    I don't mind asking for a third time.  Who's the coward?
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      You do realize that  Sam's point was that Brady is like Montana, and Mr. Wonderful is like Marino (all stats, and no titles). You do agree that Marino was better than Manning, don't you? You also agree that Montana is better than Mr. Pencilneck, don't you?
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the obvious.  The flaw, of course, is that Brady is neither as good as Montana, and probably not as good as Marino.  So the baiting tactics are really meaningless, but I am sure there were some who were wondering why Sam was asking the questions he did. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Despite all the stats for each QB; inside a dome vs outside weather, good recievers vs bad recievers, multiple head coaches vs one head coach, how many 1st team all pro vs second team all pro, MVP's, Man of the year awards, SI covers, who has the prettiest wife ect ect ect. I think we can all agree on one thing (even you UD6); I would rather have the three parades than 1 parade and a bunch of individual awards. And I think you would to dog. Thanks for those memories TB12!!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]
    Quagmire - Totally agree.  Scoreboard to Pats fans on that.  And please don't take (as other seem to have) my comments in a way that suggests that I don't think Brady is great. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Your argument cannot be taken seriously UD6, because your logic is deeply flawed. You tout Manning's MVPs and Pro Bowls as being a decisive factor and dismiss SBs or W/L record as being a "team" accomplishment. Yet winning an MVP or being named to a pro bowl is just as dependant on the play of teammates as the other. You can't have your cake and eat it too, and expect to be considered as objective. Again, you ignore the pertinent that doesn't fit your opinion, and that makes your assessment invalid. The numbers for indoors/outdoors are as follows. Indoors: Brady - 103.1, Manning - 98.7 Outdoors: Brady - 94.4, Manning - 90.8 Here is a source for the stats. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256/splits;_ylt=Alr_eMImvmPprZp1Mibspcf.uLYF?year=career And the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year is about charity work, so I have no idea why you even mention it in this context. (To help you understand why the career total PR is closer than the separated is because Manning has played 10 times as many games indoors as Brady.)
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
    Babe - some good stuff,re: QB rating, but I don't know that my logic is really flawed.  First I don't think I mentioned ProBowls much because those are more popularity contests - although if you want to consider that, so be it.  Really I was talking all-pro, of which Manning is heads and shoulders above Brady in this regard.  8 times selected to the first or second team to Brady's 2. 

    However, I do think your logic is flawed.  Manning and Brady's individual accomplishments have nothing to do with defense, but winning superbowls does. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Babe - lets look at better stats for defense than total yards.  We all know that NE has employed a bend don't break system that would allow teams yards but not points.  Lets look at NFL rank for defensive points against:
                 
               NE     IN     Better
    01      6        31     NE    
    02      17       7      IN
    03      1        20     NE
    04      2        19     NE
    05      17       2      IN
    06      2        23     NE
    07      4        1      WASH
    08      8        7      WASH
    09      5        8      WASH
    10      8        23    NE

    NE's D has been out of the top half of the league only twice and they were #1 in the bottom half.  By contrast, Indy has been lower than that 5 times in 11 years.  And here's the kicker.  In only 1 year was Indy significantly better than NE.  NE was significantly better 5 times.  

    Look, I don't care to admit Indy's flaws, but they are out there. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Babe - lets look at better stats for defense than total yards.  We all know that NE has employed a bend don't break system that would allow teams yards but not points.  Lets look at NFL rank for defensive points against:                          NE     IN     Better 01      6        31     NE     02      17       7      IN 03      1        20     NE 04      2        19     NE 05      17       2      IN 06      2        23     NE 07      4        1      WASH 08      8        7      WASH 09      5        8      WASH 10      8        23    NE NE's D has been out of the top half of the league only twice and they were #1 in the bottom half.  By contrast, Indy has been lower than that 5 times in 11 years.  And here's the kicker.  In only 1 year was Indy significantly better than NE.  NE was significantly better 5 times.   Look, I don't care to admit Indy's flaws, but they are out there. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Total Defense is points UD.

    As I said, in the 10 year period the Pats were better 6 times and the Colts were better 4 times.

    Looking closer, in the last 6 years that the Pats have not won a SB (and Manning has won one) they have been "top 10" 5 times, the Colts 4 times.

    In the decade the Pats have been top seven 5 times, the Colts 4 times.

    The year the Colts won the SB they were ranked 23rd on D. ) I think we all know why this happened.)

    Your argument that Brady has won three times as many SBs because of the Pat's superior D, just isn't holding water UD.

    And as I have also said, if you're going to plug in the "team" card into to SB wins, you must also plug it in to MVP/Probowl selections.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Thanks for the obvious.  The flaw, of course, is that Brady is neither as good as Montana, and probably not as good as Marino.  So the baiting tactics are really meaningless, but I am sure there were some who were wondering why Sam was asking the questions he did. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Brady is better than either of them, and convincingly so.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : And yet you still haven't answered.  What's important,TP, draft position or play on the field?  I don't mind asking for a third time.  Who's the coward?
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         AGAIN...what difference does it make? Stop trying to change the topic. The question is simple...who had the better receivers to work with throughout his career...Brady or Manning??  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Babe - lets look at better stats for defense than total yards.  We all know that NE has employed a bend don't break system that would allow teams yards but not points.  Lets look at NFL rank for defensive points against:                          NE     IN     Better 01      6        31     NE     02      17       7      IN 03      1        20     NE 04      2        19     NE 05      17       2      IN 06      2        23     NE 07      4        1      WASH 08      8        7      WASH 09      5        8      WASH 10      8        23    NE NE's D has been out of the top half of the league only twice and they were #1 in the bottom half.  By contrast, Indy has been lower than that 5 times in 11 years.  And here's the kicker.  In only 1 year was Indy significantly better than NE.  NE was significantly better 5 times.   Look, I don't care to admit Indy's flaws, but they are out there. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         Why don't you go read your Manning meter...LOL!!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Babe - 

    02 - D rk-7 - playoffs - Indy gives up 41 points, vanderjagt misses an early fg.  Manning doesn't throw int until dn 34-0 in the 4th. 
    05 - D rk-2 - playoffs - Vanderjagt misses FG to tie game at end of game. Has this ever happened to Brady? 
    07 - D rk-1 - playoffs - Manning had a great game.  Threw one hail mary at end of half (int-no blood).  Second int was a perfectly thrown ball from SD's 7 yd line to Kenton Keith who dropped into Eric Weddle's hands who was laying the ground.  Should have been a score, but goes against Manning's stats.
    08 - D rk-7 - if you want to get on Manning, I suppose you could do so in this game, although he had a solid game.  Fact is Mike Scifres had a ST game for the ages punting the colts to the 10, 15, 3, 5, 9, & 1 yd line.  And the D could not stop Darren Sproles (not a starter in the NFL). 
    09 - Colts went to the Superbowl.  In the final 3 quarters Drew Brees went 16 for 17 against the colts defense.  Hank Baskett fumbled the second half opening Kick-off.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Why don't you go read your Manning meter...LOL!!!!
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Why don't you answer my question - even funnier!!!!Foot in mouth
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RonMex2. Show RonMex2's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    He was way off last year...the Colts would be stupid to pay him top dollar...here's a good site to check out http://60maxpowero.com/index.html
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
        
    Let me see...when is the last time the pats won anything?  i think they may have CHOKED ever since they got BEAT in the SB by little manning.  so...i think the talk about manning "choking" is sooo tired.  unless, of course, you want to say that brady has been "choking" for a while too.  and, if i'm not mistaken, cheesy/greasy looking brady has been beat up more than peyton.

    geez i pats fans are ridiculous.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      L et me see...when is the last time the pats won anything?  i think they may have CHOKED ever since they got BEAT in the SB by little manning.  so...i think the talk about manning "choking" is sooo tired.  unless, of course, you want to say that brady has been "choking" for a while too.  and, if i'm not mistaken, cheesy/greasy looking brady has been beat up more than peyton. geez i pats fans are ridiculous.
    Posted by jac1421[/QUOTE]

    It has been 6 years since the Patrs have won anything. There were chokes in '06 and '07 (defense) but other than that, no. Manning's choking is legend, but I think that claim is a bit overblown. Applying the choke label to Brady is inappropriate.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Babe -  02 - D rk-7 - playoffs - Indy gives up 41 points, vanderjagt misses an early fg.  Manning doesn't throw int until dn 34-0 in the 4th.  05 - D rk-2 - playoffs - Vanderjagt misses FG to tie game at end of game. Has this ever happened to Brady?  07 - D rk-1 - playoffs - Manning had a great game.  Threw one hail mary at end of half (int-no blood).  Second int was a perfectly thrown ball from SD's 7 yd line to Kenton Keith who dropped into Eric Weddle's hands who was laying the ground.  Should have been a score, but goes against Manning's stats. 08 - D rk-7 - if you want to get on Manning, I suppose you could do so in this game, although he had a solid game.  Fact is Mike Scifres had a ST game for the ages punting the colts to the 10, 15, 3, 5, 9, & 1 yd line.  And the D could not stop Darren Sproles (not a starter in the NFL).  09 - Colts went to the Superbowl.  In the final 3 quarters Drew Brees went 16 for 17 against the colts defense.  Hank Baskett fumbled the second half opening Kick-off.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         Another slow day in the stables, Dog(gggg)? I see that you've graduated with flying colors from the Peyton Passing Academy...receiving BS in the Art of Excuse Making. Professor Manning has taught you well: http://manningpassingacademy.com/pages/27-camp-coaches 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Hey patty - I see you're still willing to engage me while not answering the question.  Have you moved on?  Are you unwilling to answer whether draft position or play on the field is important?  You've been exposed, little boy. 

    Carry on.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Hey patty - I see you're still willing to engage me while not answering the question.  Have you moved on?  Are you unwilling to answer whether draft position or play on the field is important?  You've been exposed, little boy.  Carry on.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         "WE" here know the deal with you. You have as much credibility on this forum as Congressman Weiner has with his wife. Carry on.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    TP - You skilled at the "bob and weave".  Too bad you have no punch.  

    It doesn't bother me that you refuse to answer my questions, but there are 2 sides to every discussion, and no matter how frequently and LOUDLY you bluster to the board about me when your future questions aren't answered (quid pro quo), you'll always know the reason why. 
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3ab831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:b831c70d-a558-4cbe-b404-a60ae8f446c5Post:41e5ad17-a9dc-4021-8324-71b4d5f57690">Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      "WE" here know the deal with you. You have as much credibility on this forum as Congressman Weiner has with his wife. Carry on.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Tex, I honestly don't believe Peyton himself would be on here fighting this as much as this. I think he would have agreed with us years ago.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    It is pointless, isn't it Sammy, but you guys do continue to keep it up. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    robbie give it up... told you 2 years ago manning was on the downslope... nothing that has happened since has changed that....and now the entire team is following suit...

    you will gain a greater appreciation for how difficult it is to totally rebuild your team and still compete for the TOP prize...

    though brady will probabaly go down as the best with another sb or two or three ...gomer will always bein the marino/dilfer category

    and you will be always be an apologist(not the word I had in mind) for him with a secret closet love for brady and all things patriots....   those are facts you have no arguement for...

     
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