Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from lippa. Show lippa's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

      Timing is key for any offense not just the colts ,so agian you adjust to it like other teams do.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    Lippa, I completely agree about injuries.  That's they way things go, but lets not suggest that they don't affect play.  Javarris James was an undrafted FA picked up by the colts, dropped, picked up by the pats, dropped then picked up again by the colts out of necessity.  He played 10 games for the colts due to injuries to Addai, Brown, & Hart.  They picked up Dominic Rhodes at the end of the season to deal with the other injuries and the ineffectiveness of James.  Colts were without Collie and Clark - 2 starters, and Garcon missed a couple of games and was ineffective for many more prompting an article to be written about whether he was having the worst season as a colts receiver in the last decade.  http://18to88.com/2010-archives/november/the-worst-wideouts.html That left the pass catching duties to Reggie Wayne (who was hindered all season by a hamstring), Jacob Tamme, who got beat up all season, and Blair White.  Timing is a big part of the colts offense, so relative health is counted on to maintain that continuity that was developed over years of offseason work.  When those players are out, then the continuity is lost.  But some of that can be gained through practices during the week, except that all the guys left were playing hurt so they weren't practicing just to be ready for the following week's game.   Frankly, given all of this, Manning had an amazing year. 
    Posted by UD6


         I agree that timing is a huge part of the Indy offense. So is continuity. Isn't this evidence of Manning being a "system QB"? Wasn't that one of your arguments about why Manning shouldn't and wouldn't leave Indy...because he'd have to learn a new "system"?
        
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
      Timing is key for any offense not just the colts ,so agian you adjust to it like other teams do.
    Posted by lippa


    Lippa - they did adjust, but in skill positions there's a dramatic difference from 1st string to 3rd or 4th string - not just from a continuity level but also skill level and when these 3rd and 4th stringers are too hurt to practice during the week just so they are healthy enough to play in the game, then they can't improve either their skill or continuity. 

    All of that said, the colts still won their division and Manning put colts ahead against the jets with less than a minute to go which was better than Brady and the pats. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Babe...this clown won't admit that Manning had better receivers throughout his career, and refuses to consider the fact that Manning played the great majority of his games in pristine weather conditions. Instead, he tries to divert the conversation by saying that...it doesn't matter where your drafted...only how you play. But, that has no bearing on the conversation. Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokely, Marvin Harrison, and Dallas Clark (all high draft picks), were better than David Patten, David Givens, Deion Branch, Reche Caldwell, and Daniel Graham. The only time that Brady had a Colts-like stable of receivers was in 2007, when he broke Manning's TD pass record.        You're wasting your time trying to be logical with him. You might as well try to persuade a fence post.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Yeah, he has that Colt's fan denseness going on bigtime. But it is understandable. What else do those folks have to be prideful about, the Indy 500?

    It's not even all that close anymore between the two and I expect Brady will be pulling away over the next few years. Two MVPs and a CPOTY in the last 3 years he has played beats what PM has done over that same time.

    Refusal to acknowledge the dome, that MVPs and pro-bowls are just as team dependent as SB wins,  and the superior offensive players Manning has had supporting him to create numbers is irrefutable evidence of a lack of objectivity in comparing the two.

    UD6 doesn't seem a bad fellow. He just ignores what is necessary to be able to see Manning as the better QB. You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Terms like "system QB" or "dink and dunk" are conjurations only used to try to undermine accomplishments and are without substance whatsoever. They aren't real and therefore are the epitome of pure BS.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    Also, who cares how the pass is made or how far it goes if the effect is positive or well executed? BOth statements reek of the individual unable to appreciate execution or the player's ability. Brady has shown he can do both, even if the deep ball isn't a strength.  You'd think this rhetoric would have died in 2007. 
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    Neither Brady or Manning are top 100 all-time in yards per completion. So I guess we can say the whole NFL is a "dink and dunk" league these days.

    Manning has .1 yards more than Brady, and Grossman beats them both.

    If you can't win your argument with facts, resort to an empty phrase!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    yards per completion is a flawed stat IMO. How many times have we seen Manning toss a 5 yard slant to Marvin Harrison and he goes 75 yards with it? Or (to keep UD6 happy) Tom Brady throw a screen to Kevin Faulk or Troy Brown and they take it 50 yards?!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Lippa - they did adjust, but in skill positions there's a dramatic difference from 1st string to 3rd or 4th string - not just from a continuity level but also skill level and when these 3rd and 4th stringers are too hurt to practice during the week just so they are healthy enough to play in the game, then they can't improve either their skill or continuity.  All of that said, the colts still won their division and Manning put colts ahead against the jets with less than a minute to go which was better than Brady and the pats. 
    Posted by UD6


         You can continue to twist yourself into a pretzel all you wish. But, all the gaudy stats aside, the bottom line on Manning is that, but for that bogus title handed to him by the referees and the league in 2006, he's won zero championships. He has repeatedly choked in big games, going back to his college days at Tennessee...and has never found an excuse that he didn't like. 

         Rating him as one of the greatest QBs of all-time is a joke.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    yards per completion is a flawed stat IMO. How many times have we seen Manning toss a 5 yard slant to Marvin Harrison and he goes 75 yards with it? Or (to keep UD6 happy) Tom Brady throw a screen to Kevin Faulk or Troy Brown and they take it 50 yards?!
    Posted by Quagmire3


    They are all flawed stats. That's one reason winning SBs is such a criteria when we judge great QBs (well, I mean other than Colt's fans).

    Passer Rating is a deeply flawed calculation. You can have the QB with a half yard more per attempt. I'll take the guy who throws half as many INTs.

    I would dare say TD/INT ratio is actually a better measure of a QB than passer rating.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

         Couldn't help but notice how The Dog(gggg), a/k/a UD6, cowardly bailed from this discussion...LOL!!!  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Bailed?  How do you figure? 

    As I see it, I presented facts and valid theory for my side of the discussion that Manning is the best.  All on the board can attempt to counter my points but none have managed to provide much of anything of substance beyond the superbowl victories (which has limited value because the accomplishment requires defense and special teams involvement) as a defense for taking Brady's side. 

    There was really nothing more to say. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    Bailed?  How do you figure?  As I see it, I presented facts and valid theory for my side of the discussion that Manning is the best.  All on the board can attempt to counter my points but none have managed to provide much of anything of substance beyond the sperbowl victories (which has limited value because the accomplishment requires defense and special teams involvement) as a defense for taking Brady's side.  There was really nothing more to say. 
    Posted by UD6


         Oh, really?? What say you to the arguments made that Manning's stats were greatly enhanced due to playing the great majority of his games domes, or fair weather sites...that Manning had better weapons throughout his career (Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Stokely, Garcon, Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai) than Brady? 

        Manning is the greatest choke artist in the history of the game...going back as far as his college days at Tennessee, with one tainted SB victory which was stolen from the Patriots by the refs in the 2006 AFC title game, and was awarded an undeserved SB MVP, which was gift-wrapped for him by the media? 

         Finally, you call Brady the best "game manager" of all time. How is it that a "game manager" gets to 4 SBs, winning 3? How is it that a "game manager" breaks the record for TD passes in a season with 50? How is it that a "game manager" wins two SB and regular season MVP awards? How is it that a "game manager" led an offense that broke the league scoring record..while playing outdoors, in a cold weather site?  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dastardly. Show dastardly's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    Bailed?  How do you figure?  As I see it, I presented facts and valid theory for my side of the discussion that Manning is the best.  All on the board can attempt to counter my points but none have managed to provide much of anything of substance beyond the superbowl victories (which has limited value because the accomplishment requires defense and special teams involvement) as a defense for taking Brady's side.  There was really nothing more to say. 
    Posted by UD6


    By "substance" I'm guessing you mean those commentaries made by the best of the best in journalism - Yahoo writers and bloggers, since this pretty much makes up the basis of your head-scratching, mind-numbing arguments.  Objectivity goes out the window when you can't use it to support your meaningless drivel which is why you avoided it like the plague.  

    I say having the best OL in the game is the key reason to Manning's (regular season) success, you provide us with an article that just proves this point.  Now you're saying a solid defense was the reason why the Pats won those SBs, but the fact is, the Pats defense during those SB-winning years are far from being the best.  In 2001, the Rams had much better defense than the Pats.  In 2003 and 2004, both Carolina and the Eagles D’s are pretty much on par with the Pats.

    I’m not that surprised you refuse to consider SB wins as valid criteria.  I’d be adamant against it as well had I been a Manning fan.  Brady had to beat the best teams the NFC had to offer at the SB, whereas Manning had to beat Chicago – a team I’m sure even your prized Yahoo writers would argue did not deserve to be in the SB.  The SB against NO is a very good example of Manning’s true skills (or lack thereof) as a pressure QB when facing a legitimate contender - an INT at a very critical stage of the game.  

    That particular INT is really not that surprising.  He’s been known to do this more than any other QBs considered “elite” by the experts.  He has that uncanny ability to, for a lack of a better word, choke at the most critical moments of the most meaningful games.  If you think that’s a mark of a great QB, more power to you.  I tend to look more at winning qualities when ranking a QB which is why I’d rank him behind Brady, Brees, Roethslisberger, and now Rodgers.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Oh, really?? What say you to the arguments made that Manning's stats were greatly enhanced due to playing the great majority of his games domes, or fair weather sites...that Manning had better weapons throughout his career (Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Stokely, Garcon, Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai) than Brady?      Manning is the greatest choke artist in the history of the game...going back as far as his college days at Tennessee, with one tainted SB victory which was stolen from the Patriots by the refs in the 2006 AFC title game, and was awarded an undeserved SB MVP, which was gift-wrapped for him by the media?       Finally, you call Brady the best "game manager" of all time. How is it that a "game manager" gets to 4 SBs, winning 3? How is it that a "game manager" breaks the record for TD passes in a season with 50? How is it that a "game manager" wins two SB and regular season MVP awards? How is it that a "game manager" led an offense that broke the league scoring record..while playing outdoors, in a cold weather site?  
    Posted by TexasPat3

    TP - I'd love to answer your questions, but since you are unwilling to answer mine, I must defer until you do. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Dast - You've already attempted to discredit my argument by suggesting that the yahoo NFL writers are an unworthy source of information.  Its a shame that all you've been able to say is that they are unworthy but have yet to really say why.  Tom Brady finds Michael Silver of Yahoo Sports worthy (over any other writer) of his time.  I wonder why he would give his time to writers you think unworthy.  He must not have consulted you. 

    I think I've supported everything that I have said, but if you care to re-engage, feel free. 

    I've identified that not only is Manning's line poor, but that Brady's has been spectacular.  I provided a stat driven analysis from ProFootballFocus to do so.  Want more?  Here you go. 
    http://www.stampedeblue.com/2011/6/16/2226957/for-the-past-three-years-mike-pollak-has-been-bad-at-his-job-colts-nfl#storyjump

    Now forgive the pro indy slant from the writer and please focus on the basis for his opinion from ProFootballFocus again.  Ultimately the homer writer's conclusion is dead on.  Its amazing what Manning has done with such a poor line over the past 3 years not to mention a suspect D.  2 MVP's and a SB appearance. 

    As a game manager Brady is great.  Not asked to do to much and his defense never let him down so much that the team was ever out of the game.  When Brady's been required to be the focal point of the entire team 09 and 10 (08 he was hurt), he hasn't even managed a playoff win.  In 07 with possibly the best offense in history (right?), his defense held the opponent to 17 point in the SB, and Brady in his infinite greatness managed to get his team only 14 points. 

    I don't consider sb victories as an invalid criteria, so please don't put words in my mouth.  The point, however, is that victories are a team accomplishment and in football, the most team of games, attributing one player's greatness (even the most important player on the team, almost exclusively to a team win is, imo, stretching things.  The quarterback does not play defense, nor does he kick FG's or return kicks or punt, etc.  In every other major sport, players play both offense and defense, but not in football, so assigning greatness in football to a player specifically for a team win is giving too much credit to one person. 

    As for Manning's int in the SB - yep it was awful, and apparently you wish to assign his greatness or lack therof to a single play.  If we're to do that then Brady gets nothing for great marks.  Why?  Because he always had his kicker and defense when he needed it.  On the other hand, Manning has had his kicker fail him more than once in the playoffs.  Never happened to Brady, yet you wish to assign him greatness because his didn't.  Go figure.  What that?  All Brady needed was a FG so why discredit him for getting no more than the team needs?  It's not discredit, but it shows that Brady had the defense and the kicker to always keep his teams in games so that all that was needed was a FG.  When Brady has needed more than a FG in the last 5 minutes of a playoff game, he's failed.

    The fact is that when Brady hasn't had his great defense around him and the success of the team has been put on his shoulders, he's failed. 

    There's a reason that Sporting News' and the NFL Network's surveys had Manning ahead of Brady (but don't give credit to these either since they don't fit your argument), its because when it comes to producing in the absence of a solid line or defense, Manning still wins.  Brady, well he's yet to not have both, but without the defense, he's shown he can't do it.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    Bailed?  How do you figure?  As I see it, I presented facts and valid theory for my side of the discussion that Manning is the best.  All on the board can attempt to counter my points but none have managed to provide much of anything of substance beyond the superbowl victories (which has limited value because the accomplishment requires defense and special teams involvement) as a defense for taking Brady's side.  There was really nothing more to say. 
    Posted by UD6


    All these assertions of yours have already been refuted convincingly.

    I showed you Brady has better quality of stats.

    I showed the Colts D was not inordinately worse than the Pat's D over the decade (and btw, the DOME not only boosts Manning's numbers, but it makes the Colt's D's numbers higher too).

    I noted any claim that defense contributed to SB wins had to accompany an admission that MVPs were helped by having star receivers.

    You have been busted.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Babe - I don't see it.  Not surprised you do.

    As for the dome, everytime the colts play in it, so does the opponent.  The opponent benefits too?

    If Brady is so much better than Manning, why does he have only 2 MVPs?

    define a star receiver.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Busted?  Not hardly.  1st - all of the times Manning benefitted (as you say) from playing in a dome, the opposition also benefitted.  They had the same playing environment.  

    define a star receiver. 

    As for defenses, the colts D was not even close to being as strong as the pat d.  It can be demonstrated by their postseason performances.

    02 - 41-0 loss to Jets
    05 - D Played well.  Vanderjagt missed a game tying FG to send the game into OT.  did that ever happen to Brady?  Is that a Manning choke?
    07 - D couldn't stop Billy Volek.  Also - Manning threw a strike to Kenton Keith at SD's 5 yd line where Keith may have walked in for a TD only to stone hand it and have drop into the arms of Eric Weddle who was laying on the ground.  Is that a Manning choke?   
    08 - D gave up 170 yds on the ground.  Scifres had the punting day of his career.  5 times inside the 10.  ST gave up 180 yds in returns.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : TP - I'd love to answer your questions, but since you are unwilling to answer mine, I must defer until you do. 
    Posted by UD6


         As I said...you bailed. You can't provide an answer to the facts I cited above because you know that there is no answer...other than that Brady is clearly the better QB. 

         You can hide behind your little nursery school games all you like...but everyone here knows that you're full of it...and a coward. In taking this stance, you have once again demonstrated why you have no credibility here...and why no one should take you seriously. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    TP - nursery school games?  Look in the mirror my friend. 

    In an adult conversation, respect is shown through give and take.  I've answered your questions then asked some of my own.  Your refusal to answer while asking more questions and expecting my subsequent answers is disrespectful.  If you choose to come around and engage in a meaningful discussion as opposed to attempting to hold a police room interrogation, then I'll be happy to follow up on your additional questions. 

    The fact is you bailed on the discussion when you chose not to answer my questions.  Maybe you'll grow up, but I am not holding my breath. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    TP - nursery school games?  Look in the mirror my friend.  In an adult conversation, respect is shown through give and take.  I've answered your questions then asked some of my own.

    RESPONSE: That's a lie. Why are you so reluctant to address my points? I'll tell you why...because it would be game, set, and match for Brady...and you know it.

    Your refusal to answer while asking more questions and expecting my subsequent answers is disrespectful.

    RESPONSE: You lie, dodge questions, misrepresent, misdirect conversations, and personally attack others. Why is such conduct worthy of respect?

    If you choose to come around and engage in a meaningful discussion as opposed to attempting to hold a police room interrogation, then I'll be happy to follow up on your additional questions.

    RESPONSE: We're waiting, coward:
     
    T or F?

    1.) Manning benefitted from playing the great majority of his games in a dome, and/or in warm weather sites?

    2.) Manning had better weapons at his disposal at WR and RB for the majority of his career, than did Brady?

    3.) Manning is the greatest choke artist in the history of football...dating back to his college days at Tennessee? 


    The fact is you bailed on the discussion when you chose not to answer my questions.  Maybe you'll grow up, but I am not holding my breath.

    RESPONSE: We're waiting, Dog(gggg). I'm going to take your failure to respond as an admission.
    Posted by UD6

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    Busted?  Not hardly.  1st - all of the times Manning benefitted (as you say) from playing in a dome, the opposition also benefitted.  They had the same playing environment.


    Dood, we are talking about a dome inflating stats relative to playing outdoors or in bad conditions. This makes zero sense.





    define a star receiver


    Harrison, Wayne and Clark.


      As for defenses, the colts D was not even close to being as strong as the pat d.  It can be demonstrated by their postseason performances. 02 - 41-0 loss to Jets 05 - D Played well.  Vanderjagt missed a game tying FG to send the game into OT.  did that ever happen to Brady?  Is that a Manning choke? 07 - D couldn't stop Billy Volek.  Also - Manning threw a strike to Kenton Keith at SD's 5 yd line where Keith may have walked in for a TD only to stone hand it and have drop into the arms of Eric Weddle who was laying on the ground.  Is that a Manning choke?    08 - D gave up 170 yds on the ground.  Scifres had the punting day of his career.  5 times inside the 10.  ST gave up 180 yds in returns.
    Posted by UD6


    I'm not sure what you think you're proving with these anecdotes.

    The facts are the Pats D was higher than the Colts 6-4 over 10 years. The fact also is the Colt's D had higher numbers because they played more games in a dome.

    Busted.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Dood, we are talking about a dome inflating stats relative to playing outdoors or in bad conditions. This makes zero sense. Harrison, Wayne and Clark. I'm not sure what you think you're proving with these anecdotes. The facts are the Pats D was higher than the Colts 6-4 over 10 years. The fact also is the Colt's D had higher numbers because they played more games in a dome. Busted.
    Posted by BabeParilli


         I see that The Dog(gggg), a/k/a UD6, has run away and hid again...LOL!!!
     
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