Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :
    Dast - its fine if you take away edelman but you can't deny that his quick study and pick up for Welker had most pats fans happy, that is I guess until they got Woodhead.  And as we've said, not knowing someone before they show up is no indication of talent (Marcus Pollard, Brandon Stokely, Dominic Rhodes, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Jacob Tamme). The fact is both of our QB's make their skill players better.  That's why they are 2 best QB's of the last decade. 

    As for Addai vs. BJGE - Addai ran for over 1000 yds (just over) twice - his first 2 yrs and not since.  I'll agree that Addai is better but not significantly. 

    I don't think that I said that I thought Caldwell was great, but Watson wasn't kept for 6 years because he was bad.  Cleveland seemed to think he was talented - almost 70 catches this year. 

    As for your analysis, I'll agree that consistency is worth something.  Look at the colts.  So, I get your point about 01-05, and I'll add that those players were kept because they worked in the pats system of ball control offense and allowing the defense to dominate.  I'll also accept that this may have been a reason why Brady's numbers were less than Manning's during those years.  Brady and the offense were not expected to carry the team, unlike Manning.  The defense could do that. 

    That said, I'll have to disagree with you about talent.  Most on this board believe Moss is better than Harrison and Welker (most catches last 4 yrs) is better than Wayne.  Add the consistency of Watson to the mix.  Stallworth as a piece, then getting back with Branch and adding great rookies Hernandez and Gronkowski.  Brady's been flush with talent.  Don't forget Faulk.   And yes, Brady is capable of setting records.  He proved that, but what he has yet to prove is that since he's been expected to carry the team with great pieces around him, he has not delivered. 

    Woodhead wasn't a rookie. 

    Oh, and Manning won MVP with a rookie 4th rdr (Collie) and a 2nd yr 6th rdr (Garcon) who'd caught 4 NFL passes before 09.  There's your answer. 

    Sorry, you can't exclude 09.  Brady tore his ligaments in the 1st game of the 08 season.  He had an entire year to rehab.  He was running by February.  This board was through the roof with optimism, and so were the pundits. 

    Your arguments are not convincing.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Babe, 

    as I've noted with SB's, records are team stats.  Does Brady play defense or kick?

    Manning's passer rating lead over Brady in the postseason is 900% greater than Brady's lead over Manning in the reg season.  As for SB's, Manning played on in the driving rain in 06. 

    Manning's kicker lost 2 games for the colts in the playoffs  - 2000 to win in OT vs. Miami; 2005 to put the game into overtime vs. Pitt.  Never happened to Brady.  This doesn't even consider defensive failures in the postseason.  ;

    Here are postseason games where the D gave up significant rush yds.  '99-197 yds;  '00-258 yds;  '02-180;  '03-196, 146;  '04-210;  '08-167;  '10-169 - of these 8 games they won 2.  Very difficult to win games when you can't stop the run. 

    Also - If Brady is better than Manning, how come in the years they competed against each other Manning has 3 MVP's (I excluded his 08 MVP b/c Brady was injured), 4 First Team All Pro Selections (I excluded 08), and 1 2nd Team All Pro Selection to Brady's 2 MVP's and 2 First Team All Pro selections?  If Brady was the best, I'd expect more accolades. 

    I've updated the information on the playing conditions including wind/snow etc.  As it turns out Brady's played in 4 dome games. 

    Babe - this argument is totally going my way.  I appreciate the effort, but its not even close.  Keep trying though.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Dast and Babe - I'll get to you when I have more time... But if I am to take Gary seriously, then there's no comparison.  Brady would have known his opponents defensive signals through 06, and that de-legitimizes (a word?) all of Brady's victories including the playoffs.   If I am to take Gary seriously, then we don't really have anything to discuss.  Do you guys think I should take Gary seriously?
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    What does knowing defensive signals have to do with playing in a dome vs. outside?  BTH, the outside QB gets the nod because he plays in a variable environment while the indoor QB makes no compensation for conditions.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Don't waste your time with this boorish blowhard. He refuses to admit or even take into account that Manning played the great majority of his games in a dome, or good weather. He refuses to admit or take into account that Manning had more, and better weapons at his disposal throughout his career, than did Brady. He refuses to fault Bill Polian for using his top draft choices on receivers, RBs, and on the OL...all to assist Gomer...at the expense of the Indy defense.       I repeat, this is yet another example of why UD6, a/k/a The Dog(gggg), has no credibility here, and should not be taken seriously.        
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I usually don't.  He always moves the target.  His aim tends to be antagonistic instead of pragmatic.  I like the idea of having visitors from other teams but huge majority seem to want to be like UD6.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Babe,  as I've noted with SB's, records are team stats.  Does Brady play defense or kick? Manning's passer rating lead over Brady in the postseason is 900% greater than Brady's lead over Manning in the reg season.  As for SB's, Manning played on in the driving rain in 06.  Manning's kicker lost 2 games for the colts in the playoffs  - 2000 to win in OT vs. Miami; 2005 to put the game into overtime vs. Pitt.  Never happened to Brady.  This doesn't even consider defensive failures in the postseason.  ; Here are postseason games where the D gave up significant rush yds.  '99-197 yds;  '00-258 yds;  '02-180;  '03-196, 146;  '04-210;  '08-167;  '10-169 - of these 8 games they won 2.  Very difficult to win games when you can't stop the run.  Also - If Brady is better than Manning, how come in the years they competed against each other Manning has 3 MVP's (I excluded his 08 MVP b/c Brady was injured), 4 First Team All Pro Selections (I excluded 08), and 1 2nd Team All Pro Selection to Brady's 2 MVP's and 2 First Team All Pro selections?  If Brady was the best, I'd expect more accolades.  I've updated the information on the playing conditions including wind/snow etc.  As it turns out Brady's played in 4 dome games.  Babe - this argument is totally going my way.  I appreciate the effort, but its not even close.  Keep trying though.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Your kidding right?

    Brady has better regular season stats.

    Brady has 3-1 SBs.

    Brady has 2-1 SBMVPs.

    Brady has a better W/L record.

    Brady has a better playoff W/L record.

    Brady has better SB stats.

    Brady has better AFC Championship stats.

    Brady has better stats outdoors and in a dome.
     
                                  

                            vs



    Manning has more MVP/pro-bowls (voted on)

    Manning has better playoff stats in the lower playoff rounds.


                                   and


    All this with Manning playing mostly in a sissy dome, and having greater offensive weapons over his career.

    You lose by a LOT.

    (Oh, and Brady has a UNANIMOUS MVP, A Comeback player of the year, and a Sportsman of the year, none of which Manning has.)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    also Brady has a hotter wiife, and Gomer has a goofy brother.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Quag wins. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : What does knowing defensive signals have to do with playing in a dome vs. outside?  BTH, the outside QB gets the nod because he plays in a variable environment while the indoor QB makes no compensation for conditions.
    Posted by garytx[/QUOTE]
    Not a thing, but it does have everything to do with the assertion of piped in crowd noise. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    This just in, the Colts have a minor league payroll.  They're not far from the bottom.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Panthers-lead-list-of-teams-on-the-hook-with-new?urn=nfl-wp2868

    That's what they get for moving in the middle of the night from Baltimore to a cornfield in Iowa. 

    In 2011, they're not going to get much time to train rookies, and there will be a leaguewide run on experienced free agents with the salary cap boost, so last year's aging players will have to do the job for them.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : I usually don't.  He always moves the target.  His aim tends to be antagonistic instead of pragmatic.  I like the idea of having visitors from other teams but huge majority seem to want to be like UD6.
    Posted by garytx[/QUOTE]

         Notice how the coward runs from answering my direct questions? LOL!!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Your kidding right?
     - not at all

    Brady has better regular season stats.
     - Manning higher completion %
     - Manning - a season's worth more yards thrown over the same period of play.
     - Manning has a year's worth more TD's over the same period of play
     - Manning has a better TD to Int ratio over the same period of play
     - Manning likely has a better QB rate over the same period of play
     - I can go on.  
     
    Brady has 3-1 SBs.
     - Team record

    Brady has 2-1 SBMVPs.
     - ok - but a one game doesn't distinguish one player as better than another over an entire career.     

    Brady has a better W/L record.
     - team record and not over the same period of play (excludes 00 and 08).  Over the same period of play, Manning's is better in the Reg Season.

    Brady has a better playoff W/L record.
     - team record
     - Brady had a better defense and kicker.
     - NE and Brady never had a FG kicker miss a clutch FG in the playoffs, Indy and Manning's kicker missed 2. 
     - In the playoffs, NE's D gave up more than 140 yds rushing only 3 times; Indy's D gave up 140 yds rushing 8 times.

    Brady has better SB stats.
     - Every postseason game is one and done.  Manning's stats over the postseason are better. 

    Brady has better AFC Championship stats.
     - wow - you are grasping for anything. 
     - Manning has better postseason passer rating
     - Manning has more yards.  More yards per attempt. 
     

    Brady has better stats outdoors and in a dome.
     - He has a better QB rate, but likely not over the same period of play.  
                                   

                            vs



    Manning has more MVP/pro-bowls (voted on)
     - by people who make a living covering the NFL, and could have chosen Brady instead, but didn't. 

    Manning has better playoff stats in the lower playoff rounds.
     - Manning has better playoff stats overall.  All playoff games are one and done. 

                                   and


    All this with Manning playing mostly in a sissy dome, and having greater offensive weapons over his career.
     - Brady had the weapons that worked for the team and won them championships through game management because the kicker and defense were so good.  Since 2007 - Brady has had the best weapons in the NFL, but has won nothing.  
     - Brady had a better kicker and defense which allowed him to simply manage games and not have to press to win them.  Since the defense has been gone, Brady is 0-2, even as the only unanimous MVP. 

    You lose by a LOT.
     - With all due respect Babe, its not even close.  The more you argue the better Manning looks in comparison.
    (Oh, and Brady has a UNANIMOUS MVP, A Comeback player of the year, and a Sportsman of the year, none of which Manning has.)
     - Manning can't win comeback player when he's never missed a game - you can toss that one.  Manning's an ironman. 
     - Wouldn't you expect the only unanimous MVP ever to at least get through their first playoff game - at home no less?
     - Sportsman of the year is voted on by one publication.  Let the AP do it and you may have a different result.  Doesn't SI's main NFL writer live in Boston?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Your kidding right?  - not at all Brady has better regular season stats.   - Manning higher completion %  - Manning - a season's worth more yards thrown over the same period of play.  - Manning has a year's worth more TD's over the same period of play  - Manning has a better TD to Int ratio over the same period of play  - Manning likely has a better QB rate over the same period of play  - I can go on.     Brady has 3-1 SBs.  - Team record Brady has 2-1 SBMVPs.  - ok - but a one game doesn't distinguish one player as better than another over an entire career.       Brady has a better W/L record.   - team record and not over the same period of play (excludes 00 and 08).  Over the same period of play, Manning's is better in the Reg Season. Brady has a better playoff W/L record.  - team record  - Brady had a better defense and kicker.  - NE and Brady never had a FG kicker miss a clutch FG in the playoffs, Indy and Manning's kicker missed 2.   - In the playoffs, NE's D gave up more than 140 yds rushing only 3 times; Indy's D gave up 140 yds rushing 8 times. Brady has better SB stats.  - Every postseason game is one and done.  Manning's stats over the postseason are better.  Brady has better AFC Championship stats.  - wow - you are grasping for anything.   - Manning has better postseason passer rating  - Manning has more yards.  More yards per attempt.    Brady has better stats outdoors and in a dome.   - He has a better QB rate, but likely not over the same period of play.                                                           vs Manning has more MVP/pro-bowls (voted on)   - by people who make a living covering the NFL, and could have chosen Brady instead, but didn't.  Manning has better playoff stats in the lower playoff rounds.  - Manning has better playoff stats overall.  All playoff games are one and done.                                 and All this with Manning playing mostly in a sissy dome, and having greater offensive weapons over his career.  - Brady had the weapons that worked for the team and won them championships through game management because the kicker and defense were so good.  Since 2007 - Brady has had the best weapons in the NFL, but has won nothing.    - Brady had a better kicker and defense which allowed him to simply manage games and not have to press to win them.  Since the defense has been gone, Brady is 0-2, even as the only unanimous MVP.  You lose by a LOT.   - With all due respect Babe, its not even close.  The more you argue the better Manning looks in comparison. (Oh, and Brady has a UNANIMOUS MVP, A Comeback player of the year, and a Sportsman of the year, none of which Manning has.)  - Manning can't win comeback player when he's never missed a game - you can toss that one.  Manning's an ironman.   - Wouldn't you expect the only unanimous MVP ever to at least get through their first playoff game - at home no less?  - Sportsman of the year is voted on by one publication.  Let the AP do it and you may have a different result.  Doesn't SI's main NFL writer live in Boston?
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    This is probably the weakest collection of feeble rationalizations I have ever seen on a board. If this is the best you can do, I rest my case. You are officially hopelessly mired in a fantasy world that Manning will always be better in. If Brady passes Manning in MVPs you will still say Manning is better. It is pitiful UD6.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Babe - Weak?  This from the guy who gives brady credit for comeback player of the year vs. a guy who's never missed a game.  

    With all due respect, when I can effectively counter everything you throw out, I don't find that to be hopelessly mired in anything but reality.  

    The bottom line question still stands as unanswered:  If Brady is better why doesn't he have more MVP's and all-pro selections?  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Babe - Weak?  This from the guy who gives brady credit for comeback player of the year vs. a guy who's never missed a game.   With all due respect, when I can effectively counter everything you throw out, I don't find that to be hopelessly mired in anything but reality.   The bottom line question still stands as unanswered:  If Brady is better why doesn't he have more MVP's and all-pro selections?  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         Still avoiding me, I see. Understandable...after all the times I've proven you to  be a Peyton stooge. Answer these simple questions, true or false...or run away:

    1.) The fact that Peyton played the great majority of his games in a dome, or in warm weather cites, give him an advantage in piling up great stats, as compared to Tom Brady?

    2.) Peyton had better offensive weapons (receivers and RBs) to rely upon throughout his career, than did Tom Brady?    
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Still avoiding me, I see. Understandable...after all the times I've proven you to  be a Peyton stooge. Answer these simple questions, true or false...or go away: 1.) The fact that Peyton played the great majority of his games in a dome, or in warm weather cites, give him an advantage in piling up great stats, as compared to Tom Brady? 2.) Peyton had better offensive weapons (receivers and RBs) to rely upon throughout his career, than did Tom Brady?    
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    You give yourself too much credit TP, but that's not surprising.  Why demonstrate any cajones and/or substance when you can bluster, right? 

    You'll recall my recent reply.  I won't engage in one-sided interrogations.  You know what you have to do.  That question is out there for you and has been for quite some time.  Here it is again: 

    What matters draft position or play on the field?  Once we resolve this and the subsequent discussion that you ran away from by not answering, we can move on to anything you'd like to discuss. 

    Until then, you can bluster and grandstand all you like.  Everyone paying attention knows. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

         To All:

         Check out the cowardly "response" of UD6, a/k/a The Dog(gggg), above. He has consistently refused to answer two (2) simple T or F questions, regarding the Manning/Brady debate. Does anybody now doubt that he is being disingenuous in this discussion?

         This is yet another example of why he lacks credibilty, and why no one should take him seriously.

            
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dastardly. Show dastardly's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    Oh, and Manning won MVP with a rookie 4th rdr (Collie) and a 2nd yr 6th rdr (Garcon) who'd caught 4 NFL passes before 09.  There's your answer.  
    Posted by UD6

    Wrong.  Manning won an MVP in 2008 with Garcon as the rookie on that team.  He won on 2009 with Collie being the rookie.  Both weren't rookies on the same year as Gronk and Hernandez were when Brady won MVP.

    Brady and the offense were not expected to carry the team, unlike Manning.  The defense could do that.  

    We alluded to this defense factor earlier when you brought it up in a desparate attempt to undermine Brady's talents during those SB wins, my argument was that although yes the Pats defense was good during the SB years, their SB opponents' D were at least on par or better than the Pats' D.  So it basically came down to Brady as being the difference maker in those SB wins.

    Woodhead wasn't a rookie.  

    Was he good before he joined the Pats?  If I were to look at ANY offensive category, would his name pop up as being at the top?  middle?  bottom?  Here's a hint.  None of the above.  He's been waived several times, placed on IR, placed on the practice squad.  Not exactly qualites that make any team fight over his services.  Until he joined Brady's team.

    Add the consistency of Watson to the mix.  Stallworth as a piece, then getting back with Branch and adding great rookies Hernandez and Gronkowski.  Brady's been flush with talent.  Don't forget Faulk.   And yes, Brady is capable of setting records.  He proved that, but what he has yet to prove is that since he's been expected to carry the team with great pieces around him, he has not delivered.   

    Have you not been reading my arguments? These guys were NEVER ON THE SAME TEAM for more than a year.  Faulk was good when he's not injured which is quite often, and Watson was simply not  an offensive threat.  He was supposed to be, and the team have given him all every opportunity possible, but it just never worked.   He actually became a detriment with his tendency to drop passes and his blocking weaknesses.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Dast - I think you need to reread this exchange.  I never said Garcon and Collie were both rooks: 

    Oh, and Manning won MVP with a rookie 4th rdr (Collie) and a 2nd yr 6th rdr (Garcon) who'd caught 4 NFL passes before 09. There's your answer.
    Posted by UD6

    Wrong. Manning won an MVP in 2008 with Garcon as the rookie on that team. He won on 2009 with Collie being the rookie. Both weren't rookies on the same year as Gronk and Hernandez were when Brady won MVP.

    As for the defense - the point was Brady's nearly never failed him as evidenced by only giving up more than 140 yds rushing in 3 of Brady's 19 games while the colts D's gave up more than that 8 times. 

    Also the kicking.  Brady's kicker never failed him in the clutch.  Manning's did twice. 

    Woodhead - I've admitted that Brady makes his receivers and backs better, just as Manning did - e.g - Marcus Pollard, Brandon Stokely, Dominic Rhodes, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Jacob Tamme.  Don't forget that I also think Brady is great.  Deciding who is best really is an unsolveable argument, but I'm happy to defend Manning because there's more than enough evidence for his support. 

    Watson caught 70 passes for Cleveland last year.  Amazing how effective he was for a marginal QB. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dastardly. Show dastardly's posts

    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    UD6, agreed both are great QBs.  This argument will continue on even after both get inducted into the HOF.  There had been great points raised in this epic thread, from both sides.  This being a Pats forum, convincing us that Manning is better is a hard sell.  Just as it would be for any Pats fan in a Colts forum.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]UD6, agreed both are great QBs.  This argument will continue on even after both get inducted into the HOF.  There had been great points raised in this epic thread, from both sides.  This being a Pats forum, convincing us that Manning is better is a hard sell.  Just as it would be for any Pats fan in a Colts forum.
    Posted by dastardly[/QUOTE]

         Dastardly:

         How can you have an intelligent conversation with this clown, when he refuses to admit, and take into consideration, the obvious...(1) that Manning had a huge advantage in putting up stats over Brady, due to playing the great majority of his games in a dome, or at warm weather sites, and (2) that Manning has had better weapons (receivers and RBs) at his disposal than Brady, throughout their careers, and (3) that Manning is the greatest playoff choke artist in NFL history?  
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Babe - Weak?  This from the guy who gives brady credit for comeback player of the year vs. a guy who's never missed a game.   With all due respect, when I can effectively counter everything you throw out, I don't find that to be hopelessly mired in anything but reality.   The bottom line question still stands as unanswered:  If Brady is better why doesn't he have more MVP's and all-pro selections?  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    I was kind and used weak instead of pitiful.

    The bottom line question is: Why aren't Manning's stats better even though he plays most games in a pristine dome or warm weather locales and had better offensive weapons at his disposal?

    The difference in our cases is: I rely on a multitude of facts to support my case, you rely on opinions.

    To answer your question: Because Manning is more "popular".  And because Brady didn't have all-pro receivers and a dome bolstering his bid for MVP votes.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? :      Dastardly:      How can you have an intelligent conversation with this clown, when he refuses to admit, and take into consideration, the obvious...(1) that Manning had a huge advantage in putting up stats over Brady, due to playing the great majority of his games in a dome, or at warm weather sites, and (2) that Manning has had better weapons (receivers and RBs) at his disposal than Brady, throughout their careers, and (3) that Manning is the greatest playoff choke artist in NFL history?  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    You can't. Even though the weight of the evidence clearly shows Brady is better, you would think in the face of that even a fan could call it a tie. But instead UD6 just writes anything that detracts from Manning off with feeble rationalizations or just acts like it doesn't exist.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    this is gonna beat the draft thread
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : You can't. Even though the weight of the evidence clearly shows Brady is better, you would think in the face of that even a fan could call it a tie. But instead UD6 just writes anything that detracts from Manning off with feeble rationalizations or just acts like it doesn't exist.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Looks like The Dog(gggg) has run away again...LOL!!!
     

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