Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : When did he win his 2nd Super Bowl??? You mean 1 super bowl
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]
    I didn't say he won 2 superbowls.  
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Hey Uddie...do you work? Or should I call you "Robbie", like I've seen on these threads?... And yes, I think Mila Kunis is hot...hell yeah! If you don't, you don't have eyes nor gonads.....buy a skirt like that ugly, crick necked farmer Pay-ton
    Posted by jfaust1954[/QUOTE]

    You can call me Daddy.  That would be fine. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end? : Lol!  The attitude around here: we're fine with cheating, but firing a front office employee is classless.  And you call us Colt fans "spinners".
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

         As I said earlier, Colt trolls such as yourself can't deal with the truth. You call it cheating, if you like. We call it media manufactured BS. The fact that the Patriots have continued to win, and nearly went undefeated in 2007, post-spygate, are facts that can't be ignored...except by Indy homers, like yourself and The Dog(gggg).    
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]tas - I didn't say that TP didn't have a point.  I agree that it puts the colts in a spot.  That said, I believe Irsay has likely consulted with a number of experts to gain an understanding of what it means.  Finally, Manning's 4 MVP's and 2 SB's have earned him an opportunity to play again for the colts.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

         Here's more reason for the Colts to be concerned about Manning's status. Should he agree to sign a one year tender, he would be paid $23.1mil. for 2011. He could, as many other players have done previously, try to force the Colts to agree, in return for his signing his one year tender, to make him an unrestricted free agent in 2012. Or...if he signs his one year deal...the Colts will have to tender him an even higher salary each year thereafter to keep him...20% higher annually!

         Previously, I estimated that Manning would want at least $25mil. per year for 5 years...with 80% of that money guaranteed. Will Peyton try to become the NFL's first $30mil. dollar man?: http://www.indystar.com/article/20110527/SPORTS03/105270371/Manning-will-back-Irsay-would-prefer-long-term-deal 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    TP - You are excellent at playing the other side. 

    I think you are up to about 10 different speculations about Manning's future contract. 

    While I won't expect a discount, and even Manning has said he doesn't believe in that, a) for the benefit of other players in the league, and b) because Brady proved that giving a discount is no guarantee of success. 

    But if Manning were to settle on, say 18 mill per year, what would your spin be then?  Since you are up for speculating, speculate on this.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]TP - You are excellent at playing the other side.  I think you are up to about 10 different speculations about Manning's future contract.

    RESPONSE: I can recall two. Do you care to speculate?

    While I won't expect a discount, and even Manning has said he doesn't believe in that, a) for the benefit of other players in the league,
     
    RESPONSE; So...I see that you're still trying to transform Manning's personal greed into something more noble...that he's "doing it for the benefit of the players"...LOL!!! 

    and b) because Brady proved that giving a discount is no guarantee of success.

    RESPONSE: What's your definition of "success"? Brady has had far more success than Manning. Furthermore, Brady undoubtedly could have pulled the same tactics that the Manning/Condon team are in Indy. But, apparently he likes being a Patriot, even more than money. Can the same be said for Mr. Greed, and his agent, Boss Tweed?

    But if Manning were to settle on, say 18 mill per year, what would your spin be then?  Since you are up for speculating, speculate on this.

    RESPONSE: My so-called speculations are based in fact. Yours are based in fantasy. Jim Irsay has already guaranteed that Manning will be paid more money than Brady...and such an offer has been rejected by your hero and his agent. I'll stick with the $25mil. per season. Manning and Condon clearly have the Colts over a barrel. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Brady has not had more success than Manning since their last contracts. 

    In the 5 years on Brady's hometown discount vs. Manning's big deal,

    Manning won 2 MVP's, a Superbowl MVP, a Superbowl, and went to a second superbowl, was 1st team all-pro 3 years.  He was also named Walter Payton Man of Year

    Brady, 1 MVP, a Superbowl appearance, 1st team all-pro 1 year.  

    Finally, Brady already pulled his tactics last summer.  My how quickly you forget.  Remember the growing disconnect.  Talk about holding a team over a barrel.    

     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Brady has not had more success than Manning since their last contracts.

    RESPONSE: Whenever a Brady/Manning comparison is made, you always need to meticulously qualify the stats. If it weren't for that bogus 2006 SB titlle that was stolen from Brady and the Pats by the refs...and giftwrapped for Peyton, Brady would own four (4) SB rings, to none for Gomer. 

    In the 5 years on Brady's hometown discount vs. Manning's big deal, Manning won 2 MVP's, a Superbowl MVP, a Superbowl, and went to a second superbowl, was 1st team all-pro 3 years.

    RESPONSE: Again, the SB win was stolen from Brady, and gift-wrapped for Gomer. Furthermore, Gomer was gift-wrapped the SB MVP by the media. The truth of the matter was that he had a rather pedestrian game. The MVP should have been awarded to CB Kelvin Hayden, or RB Dominic Rhodes.
         Incidentally, how much more successful could the Colts have been if they weren't cap-strapped by Manning's deal? Polian might have been able to add a little more muscle to his very pedestrian defense. 

    He was also named Walter Payton Man of Year
     
    RESPONSE: Another media given award...LOL!! Do you think that he would have received this "honor" had his marital difficulties been made known by the media?

    Brady, 1 MVP, a Superbowl appearance, 1st team all-pro 1 year.

    RESPONSE: Once again, nice job of "qualifying" the stats. Why not add 2007...in which Brady was again named the league MVP, led his team to an unbeaten regular season, broke Gomer's record for TD passes in a season, and, but for divine providence...would have won another SB?

    Finally, Brady already pulled his tactics last summer.  My how quickly you forget.  Remember the growing disconnect.

    RESPONSE: Yes...according to that village idiot, Michael Silver. What ever happened to that alleged "growing disconnect"?? As I recall, Brady signed his extension relatively soon thereafter. Currently, we have a legitimate disconnect in Indy...don't we??? LOL!!!  

    Talk about holding a team over a barrel.

    RESPONSE: Last time I checked, the reigning NFL MVP, the first ever to win the award unanimously, signed a long term extension. How are the negotiations going with Peyton these days? 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Wow - I guess that "relying on facts" thing you felt so strongly about in the prior email just went out the door on this one. 

    Not surprising that you are complaining about the lost 18 pt lead in the 06 AFCCG.  Rather than look at the failures of your team, better find blame elsewhere, right?  Isn't that what you do with spygate? 

    During Brady's hometown discount - he earned only one MVP in 2007.  His recent MVP was on his new contract in which he handcuffed Kraft into a major deal (as he should have). 

    The FACTS are, that Brady's and the pats performance during his hometown discount years were not as good as Manning's during the same time.  If facts are important to you, you'll walk away from this one.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Yep - Daddy's fine.  You call me your Daddy.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Wow - I guess that "relying on facts" thing you felt so strongly about in the prior email just went out the door on this one.  Not surprising that you are complaining about the lost 18 pt lead in the 06 AFCCG.  Rather than look at the failures of your team, better find blame elsewhere, right?

    RESPONSE: How many times has the league issued a letter of apology  after a game?  

    During Brady's hometown discount - he earned only one MVP in 2007.  His recent MVP was on his new contract in which he handcuffed Kraft into a major deal (as he should have).  The FACTS are, that Brady's and the pats performance during his hometown discount years were not as good as Manning's during the same time.  If facts are important to you, you'll walk away from this one.

    RESPONSE: Why do you insist on cherry-picking the years to draw up your stats? The "hometown discount years" includes 2007. Why haven't you addressed the "growing disconnect" between the Colts and Manning?
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Its laughable that UD6 has to classify it as "since their last contracts" in order to make himself feel better. Listen all in all based on their ENTIRE careers Brady has had much more success then Manning period end of story.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]
    Tas - this is only because Texas Patty is trying to create an issue where none really exists about Manning's contract.  Will Manning get the highest contract? I'd expect he will.  He's said he doesn't believe in the discount. 

    Thus, the success of Brady and Manning since their last contracts (one who gave a discount and one who did not) becomes relevant and Manning had more success.  If I were to compare the success of the two QB's from their initial contracts, we'd have a completely different discussion, but that's not relevant to the discussion. 
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    RESPONSE: How many times has the league issued a letter of apology after a game?

    I am still awaiting evidence of the letter.  I haven't ever seen it.  Have you?  Did you know that I am the King of England?


    During Brady's hometown discount - he earned only one MVP in 2007. His recent MVP was on his new contract in which he handcuffed Kraft into a major deal (as he should have). The FACTS are, that Brady's and the pats performance during his hometown discount years were not as good as Manning's during the same time. If facts are important to you, you'll walk away from this one.

    RESPONSE: Why do you insist on cherry-picking the years to draw up your stats? The "hometown discount years" includes 2007. Why haven't you addressed the "growing disconnect" between the Colts and Manning?

    Who's cherry picking?  We are talking hometown discount contracts vs. non-discount contracts.  When Brady gave his discount, he and the team did not perform as well as Manning with his non-discount contract.  ts very relevant. 

    As for the growing disconnect btn the colts and Manning, I don't address it, because I have yet to see it.  When Manning is noted as practicing with colts players during this offseason then I don't see the disconnect.  Manning's participation is in STARK contrast to Brady's public distance from his team last off-season and is made even starker given the fact that last offseason Brady was under contract while Manning currently is not.  

    Keep tossing them up TP and I'll keep knocking them out of the park.
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    It wouldn't be a true off season without the Brady/Manning thread. You guys know how it'll turn out......Brady will have a better year and Jules and UD6 (or whatever his name will be next year) will try and justify Mannings shortcomings.

    Dog, isn't the Indy 500 coming up?
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]It wouldn't be a true off season without the Brady/Manning thread. You guys know how it'll turn out......Brady will have a better year and Jules and UD6 (or whatever his name will be next year) will try and justify Mannings shortcomings. Dog, isn't the Indy 500 coming up?
    Posted by Sam-Adams[/QUOTE]

    Sammy - It wasn't my idea to start the thread only answer questions, as I reasonably did, and then be compelled to defend when Patty started stirring. 

    As we have said they are 1,2 or 1a, 1b (whichever you prefer), but I think without being too inflammatory, I made a reasonable point about the results of the discount vs. non-discount contracts, and I believe that's why Brady pressured the pats last year as he should have.  After getting the deal, he played nothing short of spectacular last year, agreed?
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    Dog,
    You've been here a long time and you know a lot about the game and a lot about the league. Personally, I don't care about the deals, I don't care about comparing salaries to performance, I only care about wins and rings. In the end, regular season MVP's and division titles are nice but it still falls short.

    Manning will back and as dangerous as ever, he'll probably sign for the most ridiculous contract ever put to paper but all that really matters is what he does in the post season.........same as Brady.
     
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]RESPONSE: How many times has the league issued a letter of apology after a game? I am still awaiting evidence of the letter.  I haven't ever seen it.  Have you?  Did you know that I am the King of England?
     
    RESPONSE: You know it exists...as we discussed it when it first came out. But, we here all understand that you are a merchant of lies and misrepresentations, and can never be taken seriously. You are in fact such a compulsive liar, that you probably believe yourself to be the King of England.
         In any event: http://www.footballforum.com/new-england-patriots/23165-nfl-apologizes-hobbs.html. If you want more, you can, if you care to, pay for the archived article that was posted in the Boston Herald on the letter of apology: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1013840 


    During Brady's hometown discount - he earned only one MVP in 2007. His recent MVP was on his new contract in which he handcuffed Kraft into a major deal (as he should have). The FACTS are, that Brady's and the pats performance during his hometown discount years were not as good as Manning's during the same time. If facts are important to you, you'll walk away from this one.
     
    RESPONSE: Yet more lies and misrepresentations. Brady's "home discount" contract includes the 2007 season...which you lied about initially. You've attempted to slide away from that initial lie. Brady signed his new contract in September of 2010...even though he was obligated to play the 2010 season under his old deal. But, it was signed after the 2010 off-season was completed, in a year during which teams were not contrained by a salary cap. So, the new Brady contract had no effect on what the Pats did in the off-season. 
         Furthermore, the 2006 SB was stolen from Brady and the Pats by the referees, and gift-wrapped to Gomer. Were it not for that, Brady would have 4 SB rings, to none for that pencil-neck geek hero of yours.    


    RESPONSE: Why do you insist on cherry-picking the years to draw up your stats? The "hometown discount years" includes 2007. Why haven't you addressed the "growing disconnect" between the Colts and Manning? Who's cherry picking?  We are talking hometown discount contracts vs. non-discount contracts.  When Brady gave his discount, he and the team did not perform as well as Manning with his non-discount contract.  ts very relevant.

    RESPONSE: As explained above, that's a lie.

    As for the growing disconnect btn the colts and Manning, I don't address it, because I have yet to see it.

    RESPONSE: Then, not only are you the King of England, but you're also blind...LOL!!! 

    When Manning is noted as practicing with colts players during this offseason then I don't see the disconnect.  Manning's participation is in STARK contrast to Brady's public distance from his team last off-season and is made even starker given the fact that last offseason Brady was under contract while Manning currently is not.

    RESPONSE: Please list any articles which cite that Manning and the Colts are anywhere near close to a new deal? 

    Keep tossing them up TP and I'll keep knocking them out of the park.

    RESPONSE: Hitting 'em out of the park? You've yet to hit one out of the infield...LOL!!! May I suggest that, in the future, you try using a bat constructed of facts, rather than misrepresentations and lies...before you step into this forum's batter box.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    In Response to Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?:
    [QUOTE]Dog, You've been here a long time and you know a lot about the game and a lot about the league. Personally, I don't care about the deals, I don't care about comparing salaries to performance, I only care about wins and rings. In the end, regular season MVP's and division titles are nice but it still falls short. Manning will back and as dangerous as ever, he'll probably sign for the most ridiculous contract ever put to paper but all that really matters is what he does in the post season.........same as Brady.  
    Posted by Sam-Adams[/QUOTE]

         Careful, Sam. The Dog(gggg) may start running to you for advice as to how to respond to my posts, again...LOL!!!!
     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the direction this thread has taken. Comparing and contratsting results under this or that contract would seem to suggest that some people believe that players only perform in direct correlation to how much they're paid. While I don't doubt that this is true of some professional athletes, I certainly wouldn't put either Brady or Manning in any such category. In any case, the whole idea of a "hometown discount" is to free up cap money (when there is a cap) to sign additional impact players, so any discussion of "results" of a hometown discount is less a validation (or condemnation) of any single player than a rough indicator of management's abilty to flesh out a championship-calibre squad.

    Not that I don't enjoy these "I'm rubber, you're glue . . . " spectacles, but this entire debate -- as it relates to Quien es mas macho -- is kind of pointless.


     
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    Re: Colts' Manning undergoes 2nd neck surgery Since Feb 2010. Beginning of the end?

    I wish this would end his career, but like Brady the guy is tough and a very rare talent...we'll be up against this guy and his team for another two to three years.
     
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