Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    I think when it comes to drafting over the last 5-6 years, BB has been among the top but has regressed from the success of the title days.

    He has faded back with the top of the pack with a good amount of misses and hits in the draft.

     

    I think if you wanna give BB the GM some real grief, look at his FA record over the last 5 seasons. That's where some questions can really be made. Taking the older cheaper guy and try to get the most out of him is his MO.

    Back in 2001-2004 it felt like every single FA he brought in had some positive effect on the team and was worth it.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to carawaydj's comment:

     

     

    If fans such as Babe were correct we would be missing the playoffs and probably have some losing seasons.  We'd have to.  We just couldn't be making so many mistakes and drafting so bad and still win like we do.  I'm not God's gift to logic, but that just seems illogical as heck.

     

     



    They will just default to BB is a great coach and TB is a great QB. 

     




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    Yeah, like, you know, honest persons would do.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to carawaydj's comment:

     

     

    If fans such as Babe were correct we would be missing the playoffs and probably have some losing seasons.  We'd have to.  We just couldn't be making so many mistakes and drafting so bad and still win like we do.  I'm not God's gift to logic, but that just seems illogical as heck.

     

     



    They will just default to BB is a great coach and TB is a great QB. 

     




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    Yeah, like, you know, honest persons would do.




    Yanno, Babe, BB is a great coach and TB is a great QB.  Doesn't mean that BB isn't also a pretty fair GM. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to mthurl's comment:


    No need to try to convince them otherwise?? Then why do you run around here half the day like you are the GM Police? And the way you discount how the coach and Brady have factored into our success is beyond ridiculous. I guess Patrick Chung is the reason why we have won so much. LOL!




    I have less than half the post count you do and my account has been active for more than half the amount of time yours has.  I would hardly qualify that as running around here half the day unless you think that applies to yourself as well.  I haven't discounted the effect that Brady and coach Belichick have had on our team at all.  I just think it's ridiculous to claim that because of the two of them alone we go to the AFC championship every other year and have been to 5 Super Bowls.  The Patrick Chung comment is a strawman and you know it.


    And I stand by my comment that I'm not trying to convince some of the people on this board.  Do you honestly believe that Babe or Rusty are going to change their opinions because of anything they read here?  I don't.  I'll still disagree with both of them when they post things I think are ridiculous because there are some people here that are worth debating with so I'll put my opinion out there.


    If you think defending coach Belichick from some of the claims that he should be canned as GM makes me the "GM Police" then I don't find that title to be particularly insulting.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to ATJ's comment:


    Yanno, Babe, BB is a great coach and TB is a great QB.  Doesn't mean that BB isn't also a pretty fair GM. 




    This.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    Comparing BB's 10 best players picked (based on PFR's CarAV rating, rounds 1-4), from the 2006 to the 2012 draft, to the best 10 picks of the SB teams since 2006 and/or the teams that made the playoffs this year.


     


    49ers 436


    Packers 435


    Ravens 433


    Broncos 420


    Saints 401


    Panthers 390


    Bengals 384


    Chiefs 364


    Steelers 347


    Seahawks 326


    Chargers 322


    Eagles 307


    BB 296


    Cardinals 293


    Giants 274


    Bears 274


    Colts 267


     


    So BB comes in 13th out of the 17 teams compared. He has performed about the same as the Cardinals.


     


    There's the facts, now let the homer spin begin.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     




    Shows how great Peyton Manning is, doesn't it?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Babe, that is not objective comparison, it is highly selective using your own critieria.

    Independent analysis using consistent criteria is contained here (yes, I know you don't like this one):

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/decade-the-making-the-ultimate-nfl-draft-grades/2419/

    They have no ax to grind, sir.  And regardless of your youth, you do.



    Some problems exist with your selection ATJ and your premise.  

    First your cited article is from a writer with possibly no axe to grind, but possibly a team for which to cheer.  First the site (coldhardfootballfacts.com) is boston based, boston founded, boston staffed.  

    The article cites probowlers (really?).  Probowls are nice but they are more popularity contest (partially determined by fan vote) than critical analysis.  That said, even critical analysis can be considered subjective.  I would defer to all pro status as opposed to pro bowl but that's just my 2 cents.  

    The writer actually used the same criteria Babe used which is Pro Football Reference Average Value.  The major difference is the time frame of the analyses.  Babes is 2006 and beyond.  The CHFF article is 2000-2010.  Its true that the pats nailed those early 2000 drafts with the likes of Brady (lucky), Seymour, Light, Wilfork, Branch, Samuel, etc.  Since 2006, they've been less effective.  

    That said, you could say Babe is cherry picking his time frame, but then again, so is the writer of the CHFF article.  I do like the "draftees active" criteria in the chff article, however.  That's a solid sign of good drafting. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    Don't rosters carry more than 10 players?  

    I think we all realize that BB will sacrifice some talent at the top of the roster to carry quality throughout.  That's the reality of the salary cap era.  Injuries are going to happen and you can't go with 22 players and 31 fans wearing uniforms.

    Plus the Pats pick 30th EVERY year.  BB builds the team and always has a shot at winning it all.  

    He sucks!

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:



     




    In response to pcmIV's comment:




    In response to mthurl's comment:







     




     




    No need to try to convince them otherwise?? Then why do you run around here half the day like you are the GM Police? And the way you discount how the coach and Brady have factored into our success is beyond ridiculous. I guess Patrick Chung is the reason why we have won so much. LOL!




     




     




     





    I have less than half the post count you do and my account has been active for more than half the amount of time yours has.  I would hardly qualify that as running around here half the day unless you think that applies to yourself as well.  I haven't discounted the effect that Brady and coach Belichick have had on our team at all.  I just think it's ridiculous to claim that because of the two of them alone we go to the AFC championship every other year and have been to 5 Super Bowls.  The Patrick Chung comment is a strawman and you know it.


     


     


     


     


     


     


    And I stand by my comment that I'm not trying to convince some of the people on this board.  Do you honestly believe that Babe or Rusty are going to change their opinions because of anything they read here?  I don't.  I'll still disagree with both of them when they post things I think are ridiculous because there are some people here that are worth debating with so I'll put my opinion out there.


     


     


     


    If you think defending coach Belichick from some of the claims that he should be canned as GM makes me the "GM Police" then I don't find that title to be particularly insulting.


     




    My argument is stronger than Babe's for many reasons:


     


    1. I fully realize like a rational and educated adult, a light switch fix does not occur overnight in life, whether it be economics or building  53 man roster that basically fields an ALl Star team like this club had in general from 2003-2007.


     


    That's for starters.  No GM is perfect, but there hasn't been a better one in such a tough era for GMs, than BB himself.  He made Bill Polian look like Mickey Mouse and still does.


     


    2. Brady has underperformed SINCE 2007 in the postseason, and if you want to go back to 2005 when he threw that god awful floater to Champ Bailey for the gamechanging pick 6, you can do that. BB did not force Brady to make that decision or throw in that position.  Since that game, it's almost a gimme Brady will do that in the AFC Title game or SB now every year.  It's just a matter of WHEN that mindnumbingly stupid throw or decision is made, where you hope it;s just ONE and not more than one.


     


    3. This team was in the SB in 2011 and in back to back AFC title games since then, with only major injuries to very key gamechanging positional players factoring into why they probably lost those games.  For example, if NE had just Talib and Gronk available, they probably beat Denver.  That's not even counting Vince, KElly, Spikes, etc, etc.


     


    I am good with understanding these facts.  Babe is not.  He wants a black and white answer for his small pea brain to handle, which is also why he's a right wing nutjob deluxe. People like that need to see things in black and white t process things very simply for their simpleton brains. Mt Hurl is another. TFB12 and Pezzy are two more. You know the group.  THey are totally incapable of critical thinking and being rational.  It's 12 year old boy syndrome.  We were all there once. ONCE.  Then, we grew up and became adults, realzizng it wasn't all about the QB. Babe and his group are stuck in that 12 year old boy mindset, not having a clue that football is the greatest team sport on the planet, next to hockey of course.


     


    If you talk to any sports fan in Chicago, where you live, go ask them about Brady.  They have Cutler, so they would kill for Brady. But, maybe you have some friends who are Bears fans.  Ask them what they see different in Brady. A smart fan will tell ya.  I live in NC now. I hear it all the time.  What happened to Brady these Panthers (and others) fans ask.  What happened?   When I lived there, people were in awe of him.  Brady and the Pats had just executed 3 SBs in 4 years and people were in awe with how cool and collected Brady was leading the offense. Now that you live there, I can guarantee you that charm Brady had has a player has completely faded. He's old news and much of it is because of his own play himself in the postseason for years and years and years now.


     


    Our D will be top notch this year and they could allow 10 or less points per game in the postseason and the Brady Ball Slobeer Club will still somehow blame BB as Brady throws 2 INTs and misses a myriad of open receivers to lose the title game or SB.


     


    The fact is, BB has been incredible throughout all of this.   Teams that finish with a top 3 record every year, literally EVERY year, and still don't fade, are historical in the cap era.   We have FAs banging down the door to come here, UDFAs in awe of being asked to come here, etc. Why? Not Brady. Belichick.  We owe it all to him.


     


    The offense, Brady's preferred version, to make fireworks on national to chase Manning, has compromised the greater team goal which is winning it all.  That's what happened. BB listened to Brady after 2006, gave him what he asked for and Brady crapped on numerous golden chances.  That's what has happened here.  It's a fact.


     


    I am still not convinced his bad habits he's developed since 2007, are completely correctable, if at all.


     


    We will see.  But, make no mistake. We'll win another SB with other key players being a big part, not just some guy named Brady.


     


     


     





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    You are the LAST person on this board capable of critical thinking.  I wouldn't even put you at the 12 year old level.   I wouldn't even put you on a 12 year old dogs level. Logic totally evades you.


     


    There is so much wrong with your statements that it would take a PHD to figure them out.  In fact I let my aunt who is a psychologist read some and 'That boy needs a lot of help" , was the first words from her mouth.


     


    Your whole existence resolves around "BB RULES and Brady, Drools.


     


    But the weird thing is, it's not really NOT about them.  It's about you.


     


    Who you like, what you think, how superior you are to others............YOU YOU YOU


     


    You have the most irrational way of thinking, I've ever encountered.


     


    Please explain how a team is not all about Brady but is all about Brady?


     


    Please explain how the wins are bb's good coaching/gm but the losses are all Brady's fault?


     


    Bb has no fault in the losses, only the wins?


     


    Do you see that you...you...your opinion is fvcked?


     


    We do.


     


    It's about time you do too before someone ships you off to Uzbekistan, where they still practice compulsory sterilization for the mentally ill.  


    Either that or I'm sure, any run of the mill vet would take care of it.


     


    Is that a critical enough, thought for you?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

    No need to try to convince them otherwise?? Then why do you run around here half the day like you are the GM Police? And the way you discount how the coach and Brady have factored into our success is beyond ridiculous. I guess Patrick Chung is the reason why we have won so much. LOL!

     

     



    I have less than half the post count you do and my account has been active for more than half the amount of time yours has.  I would hardly qualify that as running around here half the day unless you think that applies to yourself as well.  I haven't discounted the effect that Brady and coach Belichick have had on our team at all.  I just think it's ridiculous to claim that because of the two of them alone we go to the AFC championship every other year and have been to 5 Super Bowls.  The Patrick Chung comment is a strawman and you know it.

     

     

    And I stand by my comment that I'm not trying to convince some of the people on this board.  Do you honestly believe that Babe or Rusty are going to change their opinions because of anything they read here?  I don't.  I'll still disagree with both of them when they post things I think are ridiculous because there are some people here that are worth debating with so I'll put my opinion out there.

     

    If you think defending coach Belichick from some of the claims that he should be canned as GM makes me the "GM Police" then I don't find that title to be particularly insulting.



    I don't even know how many posts I have - I don't care - but if you want to explain to me how we would of gotten to Super Bowls and AFC championship games with our roster (without Brady and Belichick the coach) I'd be glad to hear it. Seriously.

    I'm not saying Belichick doesn't know what a good football player looks like, I'm not saying he is a terrible GM, but I am saying over the last 6 years he has fallen back into the pack in terms of bringing players in...he has made lots of mistakes and I don't think he is above criticism in that department. As a coach I think he has no equal, but as a GM - with the way this defense has been for the better part of 6 years - I think he can certainly be criticized. Now I'm pretty sure Belichick doesn't read these threads...I'm pretty sure he isn't getting all depressed and won't be able to fish on his boat this summer because of it, so I don't think anyone is hurting anyone by mentioning it.

    As far as "we shouldn't talk about it, we shouldn't dwell on things, we should stop trying to make our point because we aren't going to change anyone's mind" stuff...who cares? Who cares if we change anyone's mind? It's not a popularity contest here and Belichick isn't listening...it's just something to talk about. And this is the time to do it, the draft just ended, we are in free agency...what else are we going to talk about? Arrington's backpedal?

    This is a football forum. You want to hear more positive things? Last year I said Collins reminded me of a young Lawrence Taylor after we drafted him...I started a thread about how awesome Chandler Jones is and how he is my favorite player, I've said many times that I love watching Dennard play corner because he is such a competitor, I could write a book on Wilfork...but heaven forbid I say on draft night that I didn't like the Dobson pick. I said I liked the Easley pick, but hated going quarterback in the second...this makes me a troll? A Belichick hater? Please.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    That is a WEIRD draft grading system...that's all I know.

    Chandler Jones gets a .57.  Alfonso Dennard gets a 1.08.  Duron Harmon gets a 1.27.  Is Harmon a better DB than Dennard or a better player than Jones?  Is it based on draft value?  IF so, I believe Harmon was either a 3rd rder, or a really early 4th rder, and Dennard was either a late 6th rder or an early 7th rder.  It can't be based on playing time with that degree of difference-Jones + Dennard HAVE to have more accumulated and successful playing time than Harmon?  So.....?

    It's gotta be crazy-like high draft selection going WILDLY against you no matter what...and like someone stated-1 example of something like sub-package success OVER & Above More playing time and just well above average success-A-Lot of the time.  Idk?!?

    eird too, How it ranks (save for the most menial difference in '12-'13)- Each and every NE Pats Draft as better than the previous 1- 2009 on up...  By seemingly ANY-one's standards, 2010 & 2012 were better drafts than 2009, 2011, & 2013.  So is it just based upon How many number of rookies see the field, in any given year?  IF so...then each year, NE plays a ton of rookies/has more draft selections + they see more playing + there are more vet-devoid/deficient positional areas wherein they simply do...  Then after each year, that sheer Total Number of 1st year-2nd-3rd year guys, simply see the field less and less and less.  ...Lol, Is this truly a good thing?  And even IF it is a "Good" thing...Can 1 really say, that this makes for sheer success of numbers of quality pro talent, in a real fashion through the nfl draft process in this span vs. other teams? 

    Wouldn't it just mean the following:  Belichick is a great gameday coach whom plays A-lot of young guys in and out of the field during the season within this particular span of '09-'13 + he Drafts A-Lot of total #'s of guys comparably + he uses the draft to fill out his team A-Lot more in terms of other teams using the draft & free agency/& maybe resignings + he maximizes the total #'s of these drafted young players' onfield usage in sub-packages and subbing & by seasonwide occurences...?

    That's a good thing...sometimes.  But does it make for THE best Drafting Team in terms of acquiring just the right guys in just the spots to make you BOTH Field THE best team with THE Best players (there is a big difference) AND To win you the Championship?  Idk...  Imo it's a very sketchy notion when year after year, each & every class is graded better (only for the bottom class to inevitably dwindle upon each subsequent draft the following year)...yet any common eye-opened Pats Fan/Draft Fan, knows that each & EVERY single Pats Draft year since '09, has not superceded the previous 1.  Imho, I'm gonna stick with the grade not factoring in the realities of the preceding paragraph prior to this 1. 

    and editor's note:  I actually REALLY liked this particular total class haul of guys.  And I believe BB IS getting a bit better, by not sticking SO adamantly to the "Draft for sheer numbers" rule...  He did this decent in 2012-1st rd talent.  THEN, In likewise '10 & '12, BB DID draft for numbers, but unlike say in '08 & '11 (& in a way in '07 & '13 too), Belichick drafted not just for Total #'s...but for "Draft Value" in '10 & this very year (higher skilled/rated guys whom slipped down to later rounds).  < And the "trade down for #'s" policy DOES work...and works well, if and when you strictly adhere to the large numbers based on large "value" methodology.    

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to LazarusintheSanatorium's comment:

    That is a WEIRD draft grading system...that's all I know.

    Chandler Jones gets a .57.  Alfonso Dennard gets a 1.08.  Duron Harmon gets a 1.27.  Is Harmon a better DB than Dennard or a better player than Jones?  Is it based on draft value?  IF so, I believe Harmon was either a 3rd rder, or a really early 4th rder, and Dennard was either a late 6th rder or an early 7th rder.  It can't be based on playing time with that degree of difference-Jones + Dennard HAVE to have more accumulated and successful playing time than Harmon?  So.....?

    It's gotta be crazy-like high draft selection going WILDLY against you no matter what...and like someone stated-1 example of something like sub-package success OVER & Above More playing time and just well above average success-A-Lot of the time.  Idk?!?

    eird too, How it ranks (save for the most menial difference in '12-'13)- Each and every NE Pats Draft as better than the previous 1- 2009 on up...  By seemingly ANY-one's standards, 2010 & 2012 were better drafts than 2009, 2011, & 2013.  So is it just based upon How many number of rookies see the field, in any given year?  IF so...then each year, NE plays a ton of rookies/has more draft selections + they see more playing + there are more vet-devoid/deficient positional areas wherein they simply do...  Then after each year, that sheer Total Number of 1st year-2nd-3rd year guys, simply see the field less and less and less.  ...Lol, Is this truly a good thing?  And even IF it is a "Good" thing...Can 1 really say, that this makes for sheer success of numbers of quality pro talent, in a real fashion through the nfl draft process in this span vs. other teams? 

    Wouldn't it just mean the following:  Belichick is a great gameday coach whom plays A-lot of young guys in and out of the field during the season within this particular span of '09-'13 + he Drafts A-Lot of total #'s of guys comparably + he uses the draft to fill out his team A-Lot more in terms of other teams using the draft & free agency/& maybe resignings + he maximizes the total #'s of these drafted young players' onfield usage in sub-packages and subbing & by seasonwide occurences...?

    That's a good thing...sometimes.  But does it make for THE best Drafting Team in terms of acquiring just the right guys in just the spots to make you BOTH Field THE best team with THE Best players (there is a big difference) AND To win you the Championship?  Idk...  Imo it's a very sketchy notion when year after year, each & every class is graded better (only for the bottom class to inevitably dwindle upon each subsequent draft the following year)...yet any common eye-opened Pats Fan/Draft Fan, knows that each & EVERY single Pats Draft year since '09, has not superceded the previous 1.  Imho, I'm gonna stick with the grade not factoring in the realities of the preceding paragraph prior to this 1. 

    and editor's note:  I actually REALLY liked this particular total class haul of guys.  And I believe BB IS getting a bit better, by not sticking SO adamantly to the "Draft for sheer numbers" rule...  He did this decent in 2012-1st rd talent.  THEN, In likewise '10 & '12, BB DID draft for numbers, but unlike say in '08 & '11 (& in a way in '07 & '13 too), Belichick drafted not just for Total #'s...but for "Draft Value" in '10 & this very year (higher skilled/rated guys whom slipped down to later rounds).  < And the "trade down for #'s" policy DOES work...and works well, if and when you strictly adhere to the large numbers based on large "value" methodology.    




    I like this draft class too because they took that chance on the talent in the first when it was right there in front of their face, they didn't go the old route of...we need our value..we need that good old return on the investment, way of thinking...they just took the talent. A gamble? Yes, it sure was, but they took the talent. You might even be able to say the same for the second round pick..the kid probably was rated reasonably high and they took him....did I agree with the pick? No, but they went for the talent. I'll take that over a guy like Tavon Wilson any day.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    [/QUOTE]

    I like this draft class too because they took that chance on the talent in the first when it was right there in front of their face, they didn't go the old route of...we need our value..we need that good old return on the investment, way of thinking...they just took the talent. A gamble? Yes, it sure was, but they took the talent. You might even be able to say the same for the second round pick..the kid probably was rated reasonably high and they took him....did I agree with the pick? No, but they went for the talent. I'll take that over a guy like Tavon Wilson any day.

    [/QUOTE]

    mthurl~

    I'm tellin' you, the trade down policy simply WORKS when you do it like that.  If you go to NFL.com, note that every single Patriots prediction Graded 5.0 and Above...  There were only 2-3 guys above a 7.0, and in total (w/ the 7.0's), there were only 17 guys above a 6.1, and 35 in ALL rated 6 and higher.

    Garapollo was the highest QB left.  Their OC was freakishly MIS-graded by NFL.com...I saw sites where he was the 4th OC (he was the Rimington award winner for goodness sakes).  The Stanford OT had a Rd 3-4 Draft projection...taken at the end of the 4th.  Their RB=Misgraded imho...I hated every guy save for Jeremy Hill (HATED), and this guy reminds me of Dave Megget.  Other than that- Zach Moore DE 2/3rds through the 6th w/ a Rd 5-6 projection.  Jemea Thomas...Rd 6 Grade in the 6th (shoulda been 1 rd lower granted his #'s and vers & exp).  Their OG was the lone 1 taken imo, maybe 1/2 a Rd ahead.  Oh, Gallon in the late 7th had a Rd 5-6 projection.

    *IF someone wants to look at it in any fair sense, 1 could simply say, At best NE Selected: 1 1st Rder of Top 10 consideration, save for his 2 rebuilt ACLs.  1 Late 1st rder-A QB taken in the 2nd whom, if not for BEING at the lone position which drops considerably after the 1st 3-4 are selected (before the next 1 comes of), graded as a Very Late 1st, Very Early 2nd Rder.  Then 2 3rd Rder quality selections (OC & RB).  ...Then 3 4th Rd quality guys (DE & CB & OT) + 2 5th Rd quality selections (OG & WR).  

    You WILL win in the draft by scouting guys right, AND trading down for serious Numbers of Value when draft day inevitably comes.     Someone can make that argument with a pretty decent degree of objective intent: The Patriots Selected=1 Top 10.  1 Early 2nd Rder (maybe late 1st).  2 3rd Rders.  3 4th Rders.  2 5th rders.  That'll win you a haul that offers A very above average skilled High Total number of potential draft selections to make any given NFL Team.

    Remember that:  2014, a 2nd to only 2010.  2012 being the 3rd best 1 since the very earliest 1999-2002/03.  And I'd probably grade 2 outta those 4 as 2014 quality (but not '10).  Problem was/is (as you say) BB's '07, '08, '09, '11, '13 years-Too many Tavon Wilson 270th best player taken in Rd 2/too many UDFA's (insane) drafted at all & too many total drafts since '07 where BB died by this folly.  From '07, it was 5 outta 7...at least now, it's 5 outta 8.  Or in the positive...since 2010...BB only killed himself slightly lesser by this poor method 2 outta 4X...which, no doubt, WILL make his class hauls as good/successful for the pats team, in the same way that he was hittin' as getting 1 of the better overall classes/skillseted players on every other draft during that '99-'03/'04 span.  It DOES look like he is back to still mixing it up (trading up and/or down), yet drafting with a brain again these days (selecting for "value").  People love to say that "everyone's grades are different"...  And #1-Lol...Not TOO different, At All.  And #2-And ya still cannot forsake the fact that 31 other NFL teams think this guy is a 7th rder + 10,000 draft analysts...and simply say, "Yeaaa...but I think he's 2nd rd material."  +Because that ain't ever gonna work to max out your gambler's potential for take at the end of the day, when you're outta chips & counting the $ ya came home with.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

    No need to try to convince them otherwise?? Then why do you run around here half the day like you are the GM Police? And the way you discount how the coach and Brady have factored into our success is beyond ridiculous. I guess Patrick Chung is the reason why we have won so much. LOL!

     

     



    I have less than half the post count you do and my account has been active for more than half the amount of time yours has.  I would hardly qualify that as running around here half the day unless you think that applies to yourself as well.  I haven't discounted the effect that Brady and coach Belichick have had on our team at all.  I just think it's ridiculous to claim that because of the two of them alone we go to the AFC championship every other year and have been to 5 Super Bowls.  The Patrick Chung comment is a strawman and you know it.

     

     

    And I stand by my comment that I'm not trying to convince some of the people on this board.  Do you honestly believe that Babe or Rusty are going to change their opinions because of anything they read here?  I don't.  I'll still disagree with both of them when they post things I think are ridiculous because there are some people here that are worth debating with so I'll put my opinion out there.

     

    If you think defending coach Belichick from some of the claims that he should be canned as GM makes me the "GM Police" then I don't find that title to be particularly insulting.



    I don't even know how many posts I have - I don't care - but if you want to explain to me how we would of gotten to Super Bowls and AFC championship games with our roster (without Brady and Belichick the coach) I'd be glad to hear it. Seriously.

    I'm not saying Belichick doesn't know what a good football player looks like, I'm not saying he is a terrible GM, but I am saying over the last 6 years he has fallen back into the pack in terms of bringing players in...he has made lots of mistakes and I don't think he is above criticism in that department. As a coach I think he has no equal, but as a GM - with the way this defense has been for the better part of 6 years - I think he can certainly be criticized. Now I'm pretty sure Belichick doesn't read these threads...I'm pretty sure he isn't getting all depressed and won't be able to fish on his boat this summer because of it, so I don't think anyone is hurting anyone by mentioning it.

    As far as "we shouldn't talk about it, we shouldn't dwell on things, we should stop trying to make our point because we aren't going to change anyone's mind" stuff...who cares? Who cares if we change anyone's mind? It's not a popularity contest here and Belichick isn't listening...it's just something to talk about. And this is the time to do it, the draft just ended, we are in free agency...what else are we going to talk about? Arrington's backpedal?

    This is a football forum. You want to hear more positive things? Last year I said Collins reminded me of a young Lawrence Taylor after we drafted him...I started a thread about how awesome Chandler Jones is and how he is my favorite player, I've said many times that I love watching Dennard play corner because he is such a competitor, I could write a book on Wilfork...but heaven forbid I say on draft night that I didn't like the Dobson pick. I said I liked the Easley pick, but hated going quarterback in the second...this makes me a troll? A Belichick hater? Please.




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    Not sure why you're being defensive for simply being honest to a homer all liquored up on the kool-aide.

    You used to eat fools like this up for lunch.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    Psst, psst - Just got an inside tip from PETA Headquarters, yanno, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals?  They're planning to raid this forum and engage in serious finger-wagging for repeated kicking of a dead horse.  You stand advised. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to carawaydj's comment:

     

     

    If fans such as Babe were correct we would be missing the playoffs and probably have some losing seasons.  We'd have to.  We just couldn't be making so many mistakes and drafting so bad and still win like we do.  I'm not God's gift to logic, but that just seems illogical as heck.

     

     



    They will just default to BB is a great coach and TB is a great QB. 

     




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    Yeah, like, you know, honest persons would do.




    Yanno, Babe, BB is a great coach and TB is a great QB.  Doesn't mean that BB isn't also a pretty fair GM. 




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    "Pretty fair"? That sounds like "mediocre". I'll agree with this then, my dear Mr. Geez.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing BB's drafting to the competition.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

     

     

    I think if you wanna give BB the GM some real grief, look at his FA record over the last 5 seasons.

     




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    Yeah, that is dismal as well. No wonder we haven't won a SB in almost a decade despite having a HOF HC and QB.

     
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