Comparing the D and the O

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Comparing the D and the O

    The D


    Scoring - 17th.

    Y/G - last.

    Y/Play - last

    Pass Y/G - last

    Pass Y/A tied for last

    Rush Y/G 9th

    Rush Y/A - 16-18th (tied)

    INTs - 7-9th (tied)

    FFs - 23-27th (tied)

    Sacks - 22-24th (tied)

    Punts forced - tied for last

    ___________________________

    The O


    Scoring - 5th

    Y/G 3rd

    Y/Play 2nd

    Passer Rating - 2nd

    Pass Y/G - 2nd

    Pass Y/A 3rd

    Rush Y/G 18th

    Rush Y/A - 9-12th (tied)

    Sacks 8-9th (tied)

    Punts - 3rd least

    ___________________________

    Addendum:

    Interestingly, we are 2nd in Y/Play and 2nd in 1st downs on offense. Yet we are 13th in plays run. This is a result of the D's inability to get off the field. The bend but don't break is killing us.

    Rather than the O needing to sustain long clock eating drives to keep a bad D off the field, we need a D that can get off the field and let the very good O get more plays in.
     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]And GM told us they weren't bankrupt, manipulating their stats to tell us they were putting more American cars pn the road the last 20 years over Honda, Toyota and Nissan, too. LOL You simply don't know football if you want to project Indy COltsesque All Decade 2000s stats in our direction acting like that's all there is to it. Did you play football growing up, Gramps? 3rd Down D and tackling are the only two issues I have right now with the D. If they  rebound from a bad 3rd down D day and get back on track and are more consistent in tackling this week, I'll know what I saw moving forward.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    Well it's a darn good thing we have you to interpret these numbers for us wonderboy.

    Funny how I just posted the facts and you scurry in to defend the D. I guess the numbers are pretty obvious, hunh?

    Yeah, I played football growing up. It hasn't hurt my understanding of the game though.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    I think the primary issue that these numbers demonstrate is that a common defense of the D is that if the O ran the ball more that the D would play better. The fact that the D is last in punts forced would indicate an inability to get off the field no matter the circumstance (that is not saying I am against running more) which is problematic.  There isn't any context that makes that number look good.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    On a different note I've noticed throughout this board that Babe consistently refers to RWTK as Wonderboy and RWTK refers to Babe as Gramps.  Do either of you actually know how old the other one is?
     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]On a different note I've noticed throughout this board that Babe consistently refers to RWTK as Wonderboy and RWTK refers to Babe as Gramps.  Do either of you actually know how old the other one is?
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    I am in my 50s. Wonderboy is a wet behind the ears spin doctor who is in denial, and possessed of a disheveled mind to boot.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]Thank goodness we have the best offensive mind in the game in Bill O'Brien. We also have the best GM, Bill Belichick. 
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    Good thing, otherwise we might go another 6-7 years without a SB win.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Comparing the D and the O : last Sunday's offense's stats.... 50 plays net yards passing-170 net yards rushing-43 3rd down conversions 30% Trips to the Steelers' Red Zone-1 ability to adapt to the Steelers' defensive scheme-0 yup you're right it was all the D's fault
    Posted by Evil2012[/QUOTE]

    If I had said it was all the D's fault you might have a point Evil One.

    For that game the Steelers-

    78 plays run.

    29 first downs (23 passing).

    Net passing yards - 329

    Total net yards - 427

    Punts - 1
     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    Thank goodness we have the best offensive mind in the game in Bill O'Brien.

    We also have the best GM, Bill Belichick. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Comparing the D and the O : last Sunday's offense's stats.... 50 plays-----avg per game 57.6 net yards passing-170----avg per game 324.7 net yards rushing-43----112.7 avg per game total net offense-213 yards----avg per game 437 3rd down conversions 30%----51% avg per game Trips to the Steelers' Red Zone-1 So from having 7.6 less offensive plays last Sunday than average through 8 games they averaged 150 yards less passing, 70 less rushing for 230 less total offensive yards. yup you're right it was all the D's fault
    Posted by Evil2012[/QUOTE]

    Wow, this pretty much sums it up.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]The D Scoring - 17th. Y/G - last. Y/Play - last Pass Y/G - last Pass Y/A tied for last Rush Y/G 9th Rush Y/A - 16-18th (tied) INTs - 7-9th (tied) FFs - 23-27th (tied) Sacks - 22-24th (tied) Punts against - tied for last ___________________________ The O Scoring - 5th Y/G 3rd Y/Play 2nd Passer Rating - 2nd Pass Y/G - 2nd Pass Y/A 3rd Rush Y/G 18th Rush Y/A - 9-12th (tied) Sacks 8-9th (tied) Punts - 3rd ___________________________ Addendum: Interestingly, we are 2nd in Y/Play and 2nd in 1st downs on offense. Yet we are 13th in plays run. This is a result of the D's inability to get off the field. The bend but don't break is killing us. Rather than the O needing to sustain long clock eating drives to keep a bad D off the field, we need a D that can get off the field and let the very good O get more plays in.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    last Sunday's offense's stats....

    50 plays-----avg per game 57.6
    net yards passing-170----avg per game 324.7
    net yards rushing-43----112.7 avg per game
    total net offense-213 yards----avg per game 437
    3rd down conversions 30%----51% avg per game
    Trips to the Steelers' Red Zone-1

    So from having 7.6 less offensive plays last Sunday than average through 8 games they averaged 150 yards less passing, 70 less rushing for 230 less total offensive yards.
    yup you're right it was all the D's fault
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]lol Babe and his 50 year old brain exposed yet again. Hey Gramps, smoke too much back in '68?  Leave the discussions up to the ones who aren't brain dead and ready for the home. Thanks, Rational Pats fans
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    That's the extent of your idiotic arguments. Pathetic.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]Ok, since I'm right in the middle age wise between Russ and Babe, I'll serve as mediator. The truth as you both know always somewhere inbetween. The fact is the Offense stunk it up against Pitt, and the Defense didn't do them any favors either. 1 punt forced that game? THat is atrocious. (Yes Russ, I know atrocious is a strong word, but it fits.) Pitt ran 28 more plays on offense than we did. 28! If you figure the NFL average, starting at your own 20 and getting into FG range or scoring a TD is 13 plays, that's 2+ more scoring drives that they had chance to participate in more than our offense. 30% 3rd down conversion rate for our O...that is atrocious. (There's that word again Russ). Look, both squads stunk it up and are at fault here. However, I think each stunk it up for different reasons. Offense I think has the personnel to execute successful gameplans. The problem is between the ears, most notably, O'Brien and TB's ears. Defense in my mind is another story. I think they simply don't have the personnel from the LB corp back to the secondary to do anything significant, like stop a good scoring offense when need be. This problem is exasperated with the IR'ing of Ras and the dumping of Bodden. LB corps similar. With Mayo out, Guyton, Spikes and Nink can't be counted on. Guyton and Nink for example are not starting quality LB's. Spikes, yes, but in a limited capacity. So, I agree with both Russ and Babe. However, the reasons for stinking it up are far different in my mind. One can be changed - One we need to camoflauge and live with until the 2012 draft/FA.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]


    I haven't said the O was good against the Steelers. Plenty of blame to go around in that one.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : I must admit you certainly have posted a lot of comments on the offense's poor play.
    Posted by Evil2012[/QUOTE]

    For that game, yeah, the O stunk too. Never said they didn't. Overall, the O is the only thing we have going.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]I think the primary issue that these numbers demonstrate is that a common defense of the D is that if the O ran the ball more that the D would play better. The fact that the D is last in punts forced would indicate an inability to get off the field no matter the circumstance (that is not saying I am against running more) which is problematic.  There isn't any context that makes that number look good.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    BINGO!! Well said! There are a few that believe that if we run the ball more...our defense will play better. Evidently watching Ben Jarvis Green Ellis's legs churn will excite our secondary - causing them to play zone correctly and not get abused at the line in man. LOL! And the elimination of greem m and m's from a bowl will lead Nincovich and Cunningham to get sacks.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : If I had said it was all the D's fault you might have a point Evil One. For that game the Steelers- 78 plays run. 29 first downs (23 passing). Net passing yards - 329 Total net yards - 427 Punts - 1
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    I must admit you certainly have posted a lot of comments on the offense's poor play.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjfiton. Show kjfiton's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    those stats tell me they need to establish the running game. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O


    Ok, since I'm right in the middle age wise between Russ and Babe, I'll serve as mediator.

    The truth as you both know always somewhere inbetween. The fact is the Offense stunk it up against Pitt, and the Defense didn't do them any favors either. 1 punt forced that game? THat is atrocious. (Yes Russ, I know atrocious is a strong word, but it fits.)

    Pitt ran 28 more plays on offense than we did. 28! If you figure the NFL average, starting at your own 20 and getting into FG range or scoring a TD is 13 plays, that's 2+ more scoring drives that they had chance to participate in more than our offense.

    30% 3rd down conversion rate for our O...that is atrocious. (There's that word again Russ).

    Look, both squads stunk it up and are at fault here. However, I think each stunk it up for different reasons. Offense I think has the personnel to execute successful gameplans. The problem is between the ears, most notably, O'Brien and TB's ears.
    Defense in my mind is another story. I think they simply don't have the personnel from the LB corp back to the secondary to do anything significant, like stop a good scoring offense when need be. This problem is exasperated with the IR'ing of Ras and the dumping of Bodden. LB corps similar. With Mayo out, Guyton, Spikes and Nink can't be counted on. Guyton and Nink for example are not starting quality LB's. Spikes, yes, but in a limited capacity.

    So, I agree with both Russ and Babe. However, the reasons for stinking it up are far different in my mind. One can be changed - One we need to camoflauge and live with until the 2012 draft/FA.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : Well it's a darn good thing we have you to interpret these numbers for us wonderboy. Funny how I just posted the facts and you scurry in to defend the D. I guess the numbers are pretty obvious, hunh? Yeah, I played football growing up. It hasn't hurt my understanding of the game though.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]


    3rd down ALONE is enough to make the D a bigger issue than the O.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : The loss was a mix of things, and you point many out. Coaching in particular. Considering how often NE sees this game plan against them, (spread the "D" out, stack into the line and play aggressive man coverage against the "O") one would think they would have been prepared for it, even if neither is Pitt's typical mode.  I don't know that the offense has all the personell they need. They have a ton of "gadget" players, and some OK backs. But the lack of a player who can force the defense to back off of the line is hurting the running game and the short/precision passing game. All of the offensive 'action' is happening from the line of scrimmage to ten yards out.  Safeties creep up on that line, and linebackers creep up to the LOS. They are all stacked up to chip slot guys and TEs, and it makes it unbreathable for the RBs at times, especially in traditional 2TE sets.  It makes it much, much easier to defend this offense, because it's all always in front of you.  Granted, only a few teams actually possess the pass rushers, run stopping interior, and DBs that can work this type of game plan against NE, but those are the teams you'll see late in the season.  The defense? That was a mess. One punt? They are last in the league in forcing punts as well, according to this thread? What a let down after a truly great game against Dallas.  Honestly, I think NE has to play closer to the line as well against those spread sets. I think they were giving Wallace TOO much credit in that game. Like I said before it, one player like that can't beat you alone. Instead, the rest of the Pitt offense bled them slowly -- 40 minutes TOP slowly.   That said, people are jumping off of bridges right now. On this team's worst day, where the defense was kicked around like a wet paper bag, and the offense had it's least productive game in almost a year, NE only lost by one possession to an elite team on the road (at one of the hardest places to play). All of these teams they play have flaws as well. Pitt isn't perfect. Neither is GB. NE just isn't the odds on favorite in the pack that many hoped they would be.  But then they weren't in 2003 either when they were 5-2. NE could very well, looking at this schedule realistically, finish 14-2 again. They need to ice both teams from New Jersey, and finish Buffalo off, but after those guys, who else do they play that is challenging?
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I think this loss gives perspective, just as the Browns loss last year did. Just as the drubbing by NO did a couple years ago. In both those cases some fans saw the handwriting on the wall. So too with this loss to a team we have handled rather easily over the years. And that handwriting is that we may well be looking at another one and out year.

    It's not that we have a bad team. It is surely a good team. But the flaws are very troubling. It is not hard to envision a playoff opponent ripping this defense to shreds. And it is also not hard to see this offense being stymied by the lack of a deep threat and the D being unable to answer with a shutdown type of day.

    There is little BB can do at this juncture to fix these issues other than try like hell to get a few guys to just play better. He has been dealt his hand. Actually, he dealt it to himself by his choices. There doesn't seem to be any aces up his sleeve.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]Since we are "comparing" the D and the O, I was wondering if we could touch on another subject Russ doesn't seem to put much stock in...That is drafting D and O players. I would content that personnel make the difference, and that the performance of both squads is representative in part due to the quality of the player selected and their contribution to their squad. I posted previously about our hits and misses in the draft. I found it very curious why we have more Offensive hits than Defensive hits being that BB is touted as a defensive mastermind. I thought it logical that because of that, we would see just the opposite. Since 2006, we have made 59 total selections. I'm not counting ST.   Hits I equate to still on the roster period. Contribution is subjective and hard to count as the 2011 class is still TBD less Solder. I counted all of the 2011 class. This covers draft period 06'-11'.  Offensive Hits = 12 Offensive Misses =16 Hit Ratio 42%    Defensive Hits = 9 Defensive Misses = 18 Hit Ratio 33% THis doesn't count UDFA's. Only players drafted since 2006. The numbers become more troubling and a wider gap if you only consider rounds 1-3 which I did in a previous post. To me, this highlights in part, the problem. We've filled in the defensive gaps with UDFA's and other team's cast offs in part. Some of those are good, others, well not so good.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Certainly the drafting for the O has been better than for the D. The big exception would be a deep threat WR. We just have missed on that completely, though we haven't thrown huge resources at it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : 3rd down ALONE is enough to make the D a bigger issue than the O.  
    Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]


    There is nothing good about this D being unable to get off the field. That makes the other guy happy as a lark because their D isn't having to cope with Brady.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O


    Since we are "comparing" the D and the O, I was wondering if we could touch on another subject Russ doesn't seem to put much stock in...That is drafting D and O players. I would content that personnel make the difference, and that the performance of both squads is representative in part due to the quality of the player selected and their contribution to their squad.

    I posted previously about our hits and misses in the draft. I found it very curious why we have more Offensive hits than Defensive hits being that BB is touted as a defensive mastermind. I thought it logical that because of that, we would see just the opposite.

    Since 2006, we have made 59 total selections. I'm not counting ST.  
    Hits I equate to still on the roster period. Contribution is subjective and hard to count as the 2011 class is still TBD less Solder. I counted all of the 2011 class. This covers draft period 06'-11'. 

    Offensive Hits = 12
    Offensive Misses =16
    Hit Ratio 42% 
     
    Defensive Hits = 9
    Defensive Misses = 18
    Hit Ratio 33%

    THis doesn't count UDFA's. Only players drafted since 2006. The numbers become more troubling and a wider gap if you only consider rounds 1-3 which I did in a previous post.

    To me, this highlights in part, the problem. We've filled in the defensive gaps with UDFA's and other team's cast offs in part. Some of those are good, others, well not so good.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share