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Comparing the D and the O

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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    I think the primary issue that these numbers demonstrate is that a common defense of the D is that if the O ran the ball more that the D would play better. The fact that the D is last in punts forced would indicate an inability to get off the field no matter the circumstance (that is not saying I am against running more) which is problematic.  There isn't any context that makes that number look good.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    On a different note I've noticed throughout this board that Babe consistently refers to RWTK as Wonderboy and RWTK refers to Babe as Gramps.  Do either of you actually know how old the other one is?
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    Thank goodness we have the best offensive mind in the game in Bill O'Brien.

    We also have the best GM, Bill Belichick. 
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    In Response to Comparing the D and the O : last Sunday's offense's stats.... 50 plays-----avg per game 57.6 net yards passing-170----avg per game 324.7 net yards rushing-43----112.7 avg per game total net offense-213 yards----avg per game 437 3rd down conversions 30%----51% avg per game Trips to the Steelers' Red Zone-1 So from having 7.6 less offensive plays last Sunday than average through 8 games they averaged 150 yards less passing, 70 less rushing for 230 less total offensive yards. yup you're right it was all the D's fault
    Posted by Evil2012


    Wow, this pretty much sums it up.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Comparing the D and the O:
    The D Scoring - 17th. Y/G - last. Y/Play - last Pass Y/G - last Pass Y/A tied for last Rush Y/G 9th Rush Y/A - 16-18th (tied) INTs - 7-9th (tied) FFs - 23-27th (tied) Sacks - 22-24th (tied) Punts against - tied for last ___________________________ The O Scoring - 5th Y/G 3rd Y/Play 2nd Passer Rating - 2nd Pass Y/G - 2nd Pass Y/A 3rd Rush Y/G 18th Rush Y/A - 9-12th (tied) Sacks 8-9th (tied) Punts - 3rd ___________________________ Addendum: Interestingly, we are 2nd in Y/Play and 2nd in 1st downs on offense. Yet we are 13th in plays run. This is a result of the D's inability to get off the field. The bend but don't break is killing us. Rather than the O needing to sustain long clock eating drives to keep a bad D off the field, we need a D that can get off the field and let the very good O get more plays in.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    last Sunday's offense's stats....

    50 plays-----avg per game 57.6
    net yards passing-170----avg per game 324.7
    net yards rushing-43----112.7 avg per game
    total net offense-213 yards----avg per game 437
    3rd down conversions 30%----51% avg per game
    Trips to the Steelers' Red Zone-1

    So from having 7.6 less offensive plays last Sunday than average through 8 games they averaged 150 yards less passing, 70 less rushing for 230 less total offensive yards.
    yup you're right it was all the D's fault
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    I think the primary issue that these numbers demonstrate is that a common defense of the D is that if the O ran the ball more that the D would play better. The fact that the D is last in punts forced would indicate an inability to get off the field no matter the circumstance (that is not saying I am against running more) which is problematic.  There isn't any context that makes that number look good.
    Posted by pcmIV


    BINGO!! Well said! There are a few that believe that if we run the ball more...our defense will play better. Evidently watching Ben Jarvis Green Ellis's legs churn will excite our secondary - causing them to play zone correctly and not get abused at the line in man. LOL! And the elimination of greem m and m's from a bowl will lead Nincovich and Cunningham to get sacks.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : If I had said it was all the D's fault you might have a point Evil One. For that game the Steelers- 78 plays run. 29 first downs (23 passing). Net passing yards - 329 Total net yards - 427 Punts - 1
    Posted by BabeParilli


    I must admit you certainly have posted a lot of comments on the offense's poor play.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    those stats tell me they need to establish the running game. 
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O


    Ok, since I'm right in the middle age wise between Russ and Babe, I'll serve as mediator.

    The truth as you both know always somewhere inbetween. The fact is the Offense stunk it up against Pitt, and the Defense didn't do them any favors either. 1 punt forced that game? THat is atrocious. (Yes Russ, I know atrocious is a strong word, but it fits.)

    Pitt ran 28 more plays on offense than we did. 28! If you figure the NFL average, starting at your own 20 and getting into FG range or scoring a TD is 13 plays, that's 2+ more scoring drives that they had chance to participate in more than our offense.

    30% 3rd down conversion rate for our O...that is atrocious. (There's that word again Russ).

    Look, both squads stunk it up and are at fault here. However, I think each stunk it up for different reasons. Offense I think has the personnel to execute successful gameplans. The problem is between the ears, most notably, O'Brien and TB's ears.
    Defense in my mind is another story. I think they simply don't have the personnel from the LB corp back to the secondary to do anything significant, like stop a good scoring offense when need be. This problem is exasperated with the IR'ing of Ras and the dumping of Bodden. LB corps similar. With Mayo out, Guyton, Spikes and Nink can't be counted on. Guyton and Nink for example are not starting quality LB's. Spikes, yes, but in a limited capacity.

    So, I agree with both Russ and Babe. However, the reasons for stinking it up are far different in my mind. One can be changed - One we need to camoflauge and live with until the 2012 draft/FA.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : Well it's a darn good thing we have you to interpret these numbers for us wonderboy. Funny how I just posted the facts and you scurry in to defend the D. I guess the numbers are pretty obvious, hunh? Yeah, I played football growing up. It hasn't hurt my understanding of the game though.
    Posted by BabeParilli



    3rd down ALONE is enough to make the D a bigger issue than the O.  
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O


    Since we are "comparing" the D and the O, I was wondering if we could touch on another subject Russ doesn't seem to put much stock in...That is drafting D and O players. I would content that personnel make the difference, and that the performance of both squads is representative in part due to the quality of the player selected and their contribution to their squad.

    I posted previously about our hits and misses in the draft. I found it very curious why we have more Offensive hits than Defensive hits being that BB is touted as a defensive mastermind. I thought it logical that because of that, we would see just the opposite.

    Since 2006, we have made 59 total selections. I'm not counting ST.  
    Hits I equate to still on the roster period. Contribution is subjective and hard to count as the 2011 class is still TBD less Solder. I counted all of the 2011 class. This covers draft period 06'-11'. 

    Offensive Hits = 12
    Offensive Misses =16
    Hit Ratio 42% 
     
    Defensive Hits = 9
    Defensive Misses = 18
    Hit Ratio 33%

    THis doesn't count UDFA's. Only players drafted since 2006. The numbers become more troubling and a wider gap if you only consider rounds 1-3 which I did in a previous post.

    To me, this highlights in part, the problem. We've filled in the defensive gaps with UDFA's and other team's cast offs in part. Some of those are good, others, well not so good.
     
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