Comparing the D and the O

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    Ok, since I'm right in the middle age wise between Russ and Babe, I'll serve as mediator. The truth as you both know always somewhere inbetween. The fact is the Offense stunk it up against Pitt, and the Defense didn't do them any favors either. 1 punt forced that game? THat is atrocious. (Yes Russ, I know atrocious is a strong word, but it fits.) Pitt ran 28 more plays on offense than we did. 28! If you figure the NFL average, starting at your own 20 and getting into FG range or scoring a TD is 13 plays, that's 2+ more scoring drives that they had chance to participate in more than our offense. 30% 3rd down conversion rate for our O...that is atrocious. (There's that word again Russ). Look, both squads stunk it up and are at fault here. However, I think each stunk it up for different reasons. Offense I think has the personnel to execute successful gameplans. The problem is between the ears, most notably, O'Brien and TB's ears. Defense in my mind is another story. I think they simply don't have the personnel from the LB corp back to the secondary to do anything significant, like stop a good scoring offense when need be. This problem is exasperated with the IR'ing of Ras and the dumping of Bodden. LB corps similar. With Mayo out, Guyton, Spikes and Nink can't be counted on. Guyton and Nink for example are not starting quality LB's. Spikes, yes, but in a limited capacity. So, I agree with both Russ and Babe. However, the reasons for stinking it up are far different in my mind. One can be changed - One we need to camoflauge and live with until the 2012 draft/FA.
    Posted by PatsLifer

    The loss was a mix of things, and you point many out. Coaching in particular. Considering how often NE sees this game plan against them, (spread the "D" out, stack into the line and play aggressive man coverage against the "O") one would think they would have been prepared for it, even if neither is Pitt's typical mode. 

    I don't know that the offense has all the personell they need. They have a ton of "gadget" players, and some OK backs. But the lack of a player who can force the defense to back off of the line is hurting the running game and the short/precision passing game. All of the offensive 'action' is happening from the line of scrimmage to ten yards out. 

    Safeties creep up on that line, and linebackers creep up to the LOS. They are all stacked up to chip slot guys and TEs, and it makes it unbreathable for the RBs at times, especially in traditional 2TE sets. 

    It makes it much, much easier to defend this offense, because it's all always in front of you. 

    Granted, only a few teams actually possess the pass rushers, run stopping interior, and DBs that can work this type of game plan against NE, but those are the teams you'll see late in the season. 

    The defense? That was a mess. One punt? They are last in the league in forcing punts as well, according to this thread? What a let down after a truly great game against Dallas. 

    Honestly, I think NE has to play closer to the line as well against those spread sets. I think they were giving Wallace TOO much credit in that game. Like I said before it, one player like that can't beat you alone. Instead, the rest of the Pitt offense bled them slowly -- 40 minutes TOP slowly.  

    That said, people are jumping off of bridges right now. On this team's worst day, where the defense was kicked around like a wet paper bag, and the offense had it's least productive game in almost a year, NE only lost by one possession to an elite team on the road (at one of the hardest places to play).

    All of these teams they play have flaws as well. Pitt isn't perfect. Neither is GB. NE just isn't the odds on favorite in the pack that many hoped they would be. 

    But then they weren't in 2003 either when they were 5-2.

    NE could very well, looking at this schedule realistically, finish 14-2 again. They need to ice both teams from New Jersey, and finish Buffalo off, but after those guys, who else do they play that is challenging?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    Zb,
    I always respect your opinion. You always bring great insight to this board.

    BTW..I'm not jumping off any bridges! I think the frustration and that is what it is, is we have yet to address key challenges we have faced since lets say 2006. We in some cases tried to address them via the draft and failed, or as of most late, have done it via FA and have been half-successful.

    That's the frustration. We've needed someone to stretch the field on offense for a while. And, we've needed a pass rusher, and stable secondary for a while as well. So, although I have confidence in this team, I'm cautious because we've been exited on 3 occasions now (in a row..SB, playoff, playoff) because we lacked talent in the secondary (Ellis Hobbs?), or our offense folded in big games for whatever reasons..gameplanning, adjustments, etc.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O


    Here's a simple question: Which side of the ball is closer to the SB winning teams of 01, 03, and 04?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    I think it all depends on the tenor of the game.

    If our offense scores early and often, and our defense is playing poorly - it'd be nice for the offense to mix things up a little to keep our defense off the field. Maybe control the clock a little more - or at least hope that our special teams/kicking can help out w/ field position.

    If our offense is struggling, it be nice for our defense become more aggressive to get our offense another chance.

    Then, there's the coaching aspect....having the coaches recognize what to do.

    For some reason, it's really been inconsistent all around this year.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    Here's a simple question: Which side of the ball is closer to the SB winning teams of 01, 03, and 04?
    Posted by nyjoseph


    The O. Even though their numbers overall are higherthan the SB Os they are still closer than the dreadful numbers this D has compared to the old Ds.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    " Here's a simple question: Which side of the ball is closer to the SB winning teams of 01, 03, and 04?"

    Yep, 100 percent the offense. It's a quarterbacks league now, even more so than back then, and we have one of the best. 

    BB called for an onsides kick becauase he didn't trust the D, that should tell us something. 

    On the other hand our offense did not play well either in our only two losses. 

    I have said that personnel problems plague the defense making their problems more difficult to solve. There is one exception: a deep threat wide received would really help against the "cram the line of scrimmage" defenses we will see a la Pittsburgh. For that reason it won't be easy to roll out a running game either, not until we spread the field more. 

    however there is a slight chance Price can be that guy. I don't think Moss is fast enough anymore but hard to rule anything out at this point. Ocho Cinco is looking like a John Lackey type of signing (though not AS costly or bad) in terms of a signing that could have put a team (or at least the offense) over the top and instead is hanging as an albatross. 

    There is a big difference between trusting data as a religion and totally ignoring data. If you totally ignore data you're a fool. A lot of it is knowing which stats are most relevent to outcomes. For example, in points allowed, the most important defensive stat by a large margin, we're middle of the pack (17th). Currently a few ahead of Green Bay there. If we can shave a few points off that stat we can get into the top ten. I believe we'll need to be in the top ten in points allowed to win a super bowl .Points allowed are key for our d because we are clearly a "bend but don't break" design. 

    We have issues on both sides of the ball to address...


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    Babe.  You honestly love reminding everyone how the defense sucks.  It's almost all you do here no matter the topic.  And now that it has come to fruition this must make you a real happy Pats fan.

    Well, the defense is sad especially after the CB debacle of Ras-I and Boddin.  Pretty much mirrored the safety position as well.  I'm lost as to what is going on and wish BB would throw us fans some kinda bone because this just doesn't make any sense.

    Special teams ain't much better.  This was my opinion before the Steelers game.  There's some coaching missing there...or players.

    The offense is not all it's cracked up to be.  TB threw the game away against Buffalo.  The Dallas game the Pats got lucky again with 4 turnovers.  Pittsburgh was a team loss.  Nobody played well.  It didn't matter who you had faith in it was going to fail.  The offense needs two WRs that can get down field.

    This is a team issue guys.  The Pats aren't going anywhere the way things look now.  To many weak links on all three aspects of the game.  It's not just the D.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    Babe.  You honestly love reminding everyone how the defense sucks.  It's almost all you do here no matter the topic.  And now that it has come to fruition this must make you a real happy Pats fan. Well, the defense is sad especially after the CB debacle of Ras-I and Boddin.  Pretty much mirrored the safety position as well.  I'm lost as to what is going on and wish BB would throw us fans some kinda bone because this just doesn't make any sense. Special teams ain't much better.  This was my opinion before the Steelers game.  There's some coaching missing there...or players. The offense is not all it's cracked up to be.  TB threw the game away against Buffalo.  The Dallas game the Pats got lucky again with 4 turnovers.  Pittsburgh was a team loss.  Nobody played well.  It didn't matter who you had faith in it was going to fail.  The offense needs two WRs that can get down field. This is a team issue guys.  The Pats aren't going anywhere the way things look now.  To many weak links on all three aspects of the game.  It's not just the D.
    Posted by garytx



    Keep telling yourself that. Somehow it seems to make a few persons feel better.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    I guess you had to post something.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    All I will say is this team is heading down the last few weeks.

    We are no longer scoring at the same rate and ol man winter is here early so the passing game has started to wilt already.

    We all were encouraged by the defense after seeing games against NYJ and Dallas and this has been Rustys rallying cry over the last couple weeks.

    I hate to do this, but in reality the performance against N.Y. shouldnt be somethign to brag about.  Benny had a great game which kept our defense fresh and the "D" played well, but all Rusty does is tell us how Sanchez is so bad and how Plax, Mason, etc are all bums, so does that really mean the defense played great????

    Rusty?

    Ok, now forward to Dallas game. Another fine performance form our "D", and I was encouraged, but guess what? Romo threw a pic early in the game to Kyle Arrington and then Garret basically put the cuffs on Romo not even throwing the ball downfield. Bryant was in and out the game due to some ailment and Miles wasnt even targeted. So while I like what we did, if Martz was the coach of Dallas, we would have gotten burnt, IMO.

    Romo just didnt test our defense and unlike Brady , he cant change the plays all day and had to live with his coach handcuffing him.

    So after the Bye, we all got excited and thought "how much better will we be now" and couldnt wait to see another trashing of the Steelers but instead we were humbled by the fact that our defense in fact had not improved but were aided by a bad offense one week and a bad Qb the next week.

    This week will tell me alot.

    Lets see if we go back to what we did against Oakland or continue to put all the weight on Brady's shoulders

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from thehub. Show thehub's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    "To me, this highlights in part, the problem. We've filled in the defensive gaps with UDFA's and other team's cast offs in part. Some of those are good, others, well not so good."

    I was thinking that perhaps BB is trying to win one again before Brady gets old. He does not seem to want to draft young DE / LB instead wantes to try older players to fill the gap and thinks he can win with them for one year. Brady and a ok "bend but dont break" D will get in done.

    If true, this concerns me as we will look like the colts when Brady hangs them up. We need to build for tomorrow while we try and win today. Tough to do but it appears BB has put his stock in old one years wonders and play more like one year dissapointments.

    Just a thought.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    The D is terrible against the pass right now and struggles against any team with even an average passing attack. At its best (against a weak offense) our defense is average, at its worst (against a team that can pass) our defense is what the statistics say it is: at or near the bottom of the league.

    The offense can be very good, but it still lacks diversity and any team that can successfully stop the short passing game can pretty much shut down the offense. Against average or below average defenses, our offense shines. Against the best defenses we can look very mediocre, with lots of three-and-outs and a lot of frustrated looks from Brady.  

    Comparing the O and D, you have to say that the D's range of performance extends from terrible to mediocre, while the O's range of performance extends from below average (i.e., 17 or 20 points) to fantastic (more than 30 points).  A lot depends on the strengths and weakness of the opposition the O and D units are facing.  Overall, you have to say D is the bigger of the two problems, but the lack of diversity on O is a very big issue.  What is problematic is neither of the units is good enough against all types of opposition to consistently bail the other unit out when the other unit is struggling.  In Pittsburgh, if the O had had a great game and was able to stay on the field, it could have bailed out a struggling D.  Similarly, if the D could have made some good stops, it would have given the O more of a chance. But neither unit played well enough to bail the other out.  The problem, therefore, is systemic. Both units have weaknesses and the more teams can exploit the weaknesses of both units, the less likely it is that either one of the two units will be able to bail the other one out.  This is not a good situation to be in. 

    All that said, we're still 5 and 2, and BB has a way of getting even mediocre talent to perform well.   



       
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    This may be an oversimplification, but the way teams are playing the Pats sort of underscores the strengths and weaknesses of this team. 

    On offense, as others have mentioned, it is obvious that teams are playing up on the Pats' receivers to jam and re-route them.  And they're putting guys in passing lanes and daring Brady to beat them deep.  If you can gum up the short routes and get some pressure on Brady you're going to have success agains this team. (Don't read into the word success, by this I mean that you can contain a pretty good offense and give yourself a shot.)  Not all teams have the personnel to pull that defensive game plan off, but the good teams do.

    On defense, it's clear that the Pats' inability to play agressive man coverage leads teams to take what they're given.  Roethlisberger did exactly that last week.  Mike Wallace on an 80 yard bomb didn't happen, but he and Miller were just as happy to take the short pass and keep the chains moving.  And as I read in this post, keeping the chains moving is a good way to keep the O, the Pats' better half, off of the field.   

    It will be interesting to see if this continues and how the Pats will adjust.  At 5-2 and with all these "issues" that we continue to discuss, I'm told by a pal of mine this a.m. at the coffee shop that Vegas still has them at 6-1 to win the Superbowl. 
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : The loss was a mix of things, and you point many out. Coaching in particular. Considering how often NE sees this game plan against them, (spread the "D" out, stack into the line and play aggressive man coverage against the "O") one would think they would have been prepared for it, even if neither is Pitt's typical mode.  I don't know that the offense has all the personell they need. They have a ton of "gadget" players, and some OK backs. But the lack of a player who can force the defense to back off of the line is hurting the running game and the short/precision passing game. All of the offensive 'action' is happening from the line of scrimmage to ten yards out.  Safeties creep up on that line, and linebackers creep up to the LOS. They are all stacked up to chip slot guys and TEs, and it makes it unbreathable for the RBs at times, especially in traditional 2TE sets.  It makes it much, much easier to defend this offense, because it's all always in front of you.  Granted, only a few teams actually possess the pass rushers, run stopping interior, and DBs that can work this type of game plan against NE, but those are the teams you'll see late in the season.  The defense? That was a mess. One punt? They are last in the league in forcing punts as well, according to this thread? What a let down after a truly great game against Dallas.  Honestly, I think NE has to play closer to the line as well against those spread sets. I think they were giving Wallace TOO much credit in that game. Like I said before it, one player like that can't beat you alone. Instead, the rest of the Pitt offense bled them slowly -- 40 minutes TOP slowly.   That said, people are jumping off of bridges right now. On this team's worst day, where the defense was kicked around like a wet paper bag, and the offense had it's least productive game in almost a year, NE only lost by one possession to an elite team on the road (at one of the hardest places to play). All of these teams they play have flaws as well. Pitt isn't perfect. Neither is GB. NE just isn't the odds on favorite in the pack that many hoped they would be.  But then they weren't in 2003 either when they were 5-2. NE could very well, looking at this schedule realistically, finish 14-2 again. They need to ice both teams from New Jersey, and finish Buffalo off, but after those guys, who else do they play that is challenging?
    Posted by zbellino



    Good Post Z,

    If I could just add an opinion to that.  It seems wether or not you like defense or offense, most of us are questioning gameplanning and calling, and after long thought, I cant allow myself to believe B.B. and O'brien are idiots some weeks and genius' the other.

    So the problem to me is, we gameplan for each team and that gameplan is usually based on past success againt the opponent, and what other teams have done well, and with that being said it can work for you and against you.

    For Instance, we all thought we would have the same success against Pitt we usaully do and by this time B.B. probably just scans the film of last 7 games to make sure Lebeau is still running the same zone blitz scheme and then comes in on tuesday and sais ok we are gonna attack here and here and aviod this and that, and practice all week is based on that. So they will practice the plays they think will work and if it does - Great,! but when a team like Pitt throws a changeup and does something different, they cant always adjust mid-game as they dont feel comfortable doing anything else, so they say "we will just keep trying because we are not gonna go to a bunch of plays we havent practiced" and this is for offense and defense and so gameplanning every week is good and bad and sometimes you have to just wait till gameday to know what your gonna do and we try to premeditate everything and its gonna be the same this week. If we go out thinking "this is gonna work only" we are done. They need to be prepared for everything and be able to run/pass, whatever on any given week.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    Babe.  You honestly love reminding everyone how the defense sucks.  It's almost all you do here no matter the topic.  And now that it has come to fruition this must make you a real happy Pats fan. Well, the defense is sad especially after the CB debacle of Ras-I and Boddin.  Pretty much mirrored the safety position as well.  I'm lost as to what is going on and wish BB would throw us fans some kinda bone because this just doesn't make any sense. Special teams ain't much better.  This was my opinion before the Steelers game.  There's some coaching missing there...or players. The offense is not all it's cracked up to be.  TB threw the game away against Buffalo.  The Dallas game the Pats got lucky again with 4 turnovers.  Pittsburgh was a team loss.  Nobody played well.  It didn't matter who you had faith in it was going to fail.  The offense needs two WRs that can get down field. This is a team issue guys.  The Pats aren't going anywhere the way things look now.  To many weak links on all three aspects of the game.  It's not just the D.
    Posted by garytx


    Ahh...another smart guy from Texas like myself.

    You are absolutely right Gary. This offense isn't all that's it cracked up to be. I feel like we are in the middle of a transformation but haven't yet completed it for whatever reason. Maybe it's timing, maybe it's lack of vision..i don't know.

    Your point about have some WRs that can stretch it is key. A point I made on another thread is that we have basically Gronk, Wes and Hern catching passes consistenly. We all know if you jam Wes and disrput his route, and play successful man coverage on Gronk, this offense sputters to say the least.

    Watch GB and NO. They have 4 good to great WRs that can create mismatches because of their strength and speed combination (Colston) and get seperation on their routes. Harder to jam off the line, and also opposing defenses can't keep 4 WRs in front of them. We unfortunately don't have that luxury as our offense is predicated on the short/middle of the field game.

    Here we go to my main point....
    Lets complete the transformation. We have a big decision to make in resigning Wes. If we have $8-$10M to put into the WR spot, what do you do? Do you resign Wes, or do you go grab a guy like Colston or Jackson who play outside the numbers? Where do you spend your money?
    My feeling is we have 2 to 3 possible players that can play the slot well enough. Notice, I didn't say as good as Wes, but good enough for what we need. Hern, Edelman and possibly Vereen. OR, you draft a kid like Broyles out of Oklahoma and he becomes your new slot WR, but you don't have to tie up big money to do it. So, in essence you could have Broyles in the slot, Colston/Jackson outwide with Price.
    Then, you go get another big TE in the mold of Gronk. Good blocker/pass catcher like the Fleener kid out of Standford.
    That to me completes the transformation. 2 WRs who can play outside the numbers and stretch the field, 2 blocking/pass catching TE's, a mix of slot WRs in Broyles/Hern/Edelman/Vereen, and a TE in Hern that can pretty much line up anywhere on the field (HB, Slot, Outwide).

    Now, you have out of 1 personnel grouping, the ability to run heavy (primary 2 TE's) + Hern in the backfield with Ridley/BJGE/etc. running the ball, OR using same personnel grouping, you split those 2 TE's outwide, Hern in teh slot, Ridley/Vereen/BJGE passblock or release out of the backfield.

    You mix in your run as stated above, and you use Colston/someone like him and Price to stretch the field, keep D's honest.

    That's my solution to the offense problem.

    The defense is going to take some more time, but here is my high level on it via the draft and FA next year. I'm looking ahead by the way....

    1. Sign Matt Roth to play opposite Carter. Extend Carter for another year or two.
    2. Sign RMathis from Jacksonville to play opposite McCourty. I don't want to see another rookie drafted at CB as we already have to develop Ras and the others. We need a vet.
    3. Draft Manti Te'O, Luke Kuehly to play OLB (4-3) opposite Mayo (Mayo/Spikes/Manti) good LB corps. GUyton, Fletcher, Nink as depth.
    4. Draft Jerel Worthy to play DT. Insurance and we can let Warren, Ellis or Haynesworth walk. Worthy starts next to Vince, Love/Pryor provide depth.
    5. Draft Lester or TJ McDonald to play FS opposite Chung. Brown/Ihedegbo for depth.

    There you go, a remade team for next season. Unfortunately, we have what we have this year, but we need to remake both the O and D next and I think the above is a look into how I would do it if I were GM.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    The D, keeping the points down when the score counts:  top 10, maybe 4th in the NFL considering the strength of their opponents so far.

    Keeping the points down when closing out and winning the game counts: Last.

    That said, everybody's injured.  The only healthy difference maker behind the D-line is Spikes. 
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    The D is terrible against the pass right now and struggles against any team with even an average passing attack. At its best (against a weak offense) our defense is average, at its worst (against a team that can pass) our defense is what the statistics say it is: at or near the bottom of the league. The offense can be very good, but it still lacks diversity and any team that can successfully stop the short passing game can pretty much shut down the offense. Against average or below average defenses, our offense shines. Against the best defenses we can look very mediocre, with lots of three-and-outs and a lot of frustrated looks from Brady.   Comparing the O and D, you have to say that the D's range of performance extends from terrible to mediocre, while the O's range of performance extends from below average (i.e., 17 or 20 points) to fantastic (more than 30 points).  A lot depends on the strengths and weakness of the opposition the O and D units are facing.  Overall, you have to say D is the bigger of the two problems, but the lack of diversity on O is a very big issue.  What is problematic is neither of the units is good enough against all types of opposition to consistently bail the other unit out when the other unit is struggling.  In Pittsburgh, if the O had had a great game and was able to stay on the field, it could have bailed out a struggling D.  Similarly, if the D could have made some good stops, it would have given the O more of a chance. But neither unit played well enough to bail the other out.  The problem, therefore, is systemic. Both units have weaknesses and the more teams can exploit the weaknesses of both units, the less likely it is that either one of the two units will be able to bail the other one out.  This is not a good situation to be in.  All that said, we're still 5 and 2, and BB has a way of getting even mediocre talent to perform well.       
    Posted by prolate0spheroid

     Really well thought out post. Here are a few stats that support your contention that both sides played poorly in Pittsburg:
                                                   Steelers            Patriots
    1st downs                                   29                    19
    1st downs passing                         23                   11
    Total Yards                                  427                  213
    Net Passing Yards                         329                  170
    3rd down conversions                    10-16                3-10
    Time of possession                        39:22               20:38            
                                      
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O :  Really well thought out post. Here are a few stats that support your contention that both sides played poorly in Pittsburg:                                                Steelers            Patriots 1st downs                                   29                    19 1st downs passing                         23                   11 Total Yards                                  427                  213 Net Passing Yards                         329                  170 3rd down conversions                    10-16                3-10 Time of possession                        39:22               20:38                                               
    Posted by trouts



    If you take away Faulk's 9 yard run, we only averaged 3 yards a haul. No wonder they didn't call more runs.
     
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    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O : The O. Even though their numbers overall are higherthan the SB Os they are still closer than the dreadful numbers this D has compared to the old Ds.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    I agree.  It really should be obvious to everyone.  I'm sure BB knows this too.

    There are some people on this board who seem to think this is Euro Football (i.e. soccer) where the O and D are on the field at the same time.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Comparing the D and the O

    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O:
    In Response to Re: Comparing the D and the O :  Really well thought out post. Here are a few stats that support your contention that both sides played poorly in Pittsburg:                                                Steelers            Patriots 1st downs                                   29                    19 1st downs passing                         23                   11 Total Yards                                  427                  213 Net Passing Yards                         329                  170 3rd down conversions                    10-16                3-10 Time of possession                        39:22               20:38                                               
    Posted by trouts

    Good stats trouts.  There's no way to look at this game and say it's one unit's fault or the other's.  The defense was just atrocious--and that's not because of the offense.  Similarly, the offense was ineffective and that had nothing to do with the D.  The two units both struggled and neither could bail the other out.  If one had stepped up, the other may have been sufficient to get the win (this wasn't a high scoring game)--but neither stepped up and so both are responsible for the loss.  

    I know Rusty is trying to claim that the weak defense is the result of a poor offense.  I agree with Rusty's premise that the offense is too one-dimensional and therefore can (against the right defenses) struggle to stay on the field, thereby putting more pressure on the D.  But the fact is, if that happens, the D isn't up to the task of stopping any team with a decent passing game--and that weakness against the pass isn't the offense's fault.  Similarly, the D gives up a lot of long drives and a lot of points, which puts pressure on the offense to score a lot and forces them to pass more . . . so it works both ways. The weaknesses of each unit put pressure on the other unit.  But each unit is responsible for it's own weaknesses and neither unit is strong enough to make the other unit's faults irrelevant.  

    In comparing the O and D, though, you have to acknowledge that the O does have a fabulous short passing game that some teams can't stop at all.  The D is pretty strong against the run, but it isn't dominant in anything really, and is just atrocious right now against the pass.  So if you want to compare the two units, you have to say that right now the D is worse than the O. That doesn't mean the O bears no responsibility for the losses or that the D is solely to blame for the struggles.  What it does mean, though, is that at times this team can win with O alone.  It will never win, however, with D alone--at least not as it's currently constituted.  



     
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