Compensatory pick for Talib?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Compensatory pick for Talib?

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/10spot-12week11/andrew-luck-way-tom-brady-future-adam-schefter-10-spot

     

    Well I asked this earlier and people didn't seem sure, so I figured I would post this. Now, John Clayton tends to make errors from time to time on his ESPN articles...but from here it sounds like the Pats WOULD get a compensatory pick for Talib should he leave.

     

    So you could be potentially looking at a trade of a 4th round pick for Talib and 2 draft picks...not bad

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    I think they would get one, Reiss talked about it after the trade.  I have no idea how high, it's also based off how big Talib's contract is if he leaves.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    He could help the Patriots get a compensatory pick, but it is impossible to know what he is worth until we get close to the draft. They usually hand out the compensatory picks about a month before the draft takes place.

    The NFL does not give out the formula for the picks other than say it based on your net losses in free agency, and the total number of extra picks must equal 32. In theory, if Welker and Talib both left for big deals and the Patriots did not sign anyone in return, they would get multiple picks for that. On the other hand, they would once again have a hole at CB and a huge hole at WR in that scenario. 

    Here is the article about the 2012 draft compensatory picks:

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d827e13f2/article/nfl-distributes-compensatory-draft-picks-to-15-clubs

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    If and that's a big if, we get a comp pick it won't be until the 6th or 7th. One determining factor is the size of contract when signed to leave. For some reason, his exit from Tampa maybe, I doubt any team would give him a big payday. Right now he's toward the bottom list of potential top 25 FA's on the market so a lot of other players would have to stay with their teams before we sniff a comp pick. That's not to mention that the Pats don't sign anyone of value either, which I'd rather have them go out and get a top 25 FA then to desire the possibility of a low round comp pick from Talib

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    I think this trade is ALMOST a win-win situation

    Only way they lose in this trade is if Talib absolutely blows.

     

    Despite BB's hiccups at cb. He had a history of drafting playable guys in the 6th and 7th round

    Brady, Patrick Pass, David Givens, Tully Banta-Cain, Matt Cassell, Julian Edelman, Brandon Deaderick, and Alfonzo Dennard. Not to mention all the undrafted players too.

     

    Even if it's just a 7th round pick, there's still a decent shot that the pick can become a decent role player on the team. I'd take that

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    this was stated by Mike Reiss in his column over a week ago and well discussed here.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    this was stated by Mike Reiss in his column over a week ago and well discussed here.

    [/QUOTE]

    My bad then.

    I don't check the forum every week so probably 75% of the stuff I bring has already been brought up.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If and that's a big if, we get a comp pick it won't be until the 6th or 7th. One determining factor is the size of contract when signed to leave. For some reason, his exit from Tampa maybe, I doubt any team would give him a big payday. Right now he's toward the bottom list of potential top 25 FA's on the market so a lot of other players would have to stay with their teams before we sniff a comp pick. That's not to mention that the Pats don't sign anyone of value either, which I'd rather have them go out and get a top 25 FA then to desire the possibility of a low round comp pick from Talib

    [/QUOTE]


    exactly. keep talib. unless he breaks out the stuipid before the end of the year. beahvior and perf based contract.

    and get a top 25 fa at a postion that you dont plan to draft for ie safety, cb.

    if this team adds a dominant dt and de and a g/c that can win in the run and pass its sb time (all possible in the darft)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]


    yeah we would want him back, but when was the last time BB paid big money to a CB?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]


    yeah we would want him back, but when was the last time BB paid big money to a CB?

    [/QUOTE]

    hey nate,

    coming from the position he came from, i dont knwo he gets top $

    until this deal with talib, since last year ive been advocating a 10 mil a year cb.

    what bb hasnt don4e in the past isnt today. in the past years hes turning a lot of neew leafs.

    nad with his secondary and bradys time ticking, theres no time liek now to change this.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]

    You do not need strings in the NFL. Just limit the up front money and cut bait when he becomes a problem. The issue comes if some one is willing to give him less total $, but more of it as guaranteed. In the NFL, you always take the money now.

    So if the Patriots offered him $18M over three years with only $6M of it guaranteed, he would probably take $15 over three with $10M guaranteed. (Those numbers are not based in any reality, I was just trying to make an example). 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]

    You do not need strings in the NFL. Just limit the up front money and cut bait when he becomes a problem. The issue comes if some one is willing to give him less total $, but more of it as guaranteed. In the NFL, you always take the money now.

    So if the Patriots offered him $18M over three years with only $6M of it guaranteed, he would probably take $15 over three with $10M guaranteed. (Those numbers are not based in any reality, I was just trying to make an example). 

    [/QUOTE]

    also factor in the chance at a sb yearly, and that most players that leave here dotn do much elsewhere. he mgiht be more likely to act out elsewhere, esp for a team that wotn put strings in his contract. ie their locker room i doubt would be in th right place to support players like talib.

    if teh pats both save hsi career adn offer him something halfway decent, if hes got any brain cells firing hed learn toward staing id think

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]

    You do not need strings in the NFL. Just limit the up front money and cut bait when he becomes a problem. The issue comes if some one is willing to give him less total $, but more of it as guaranteed. In the NFL, you always take the money now.

    So if the Patriots offered him $18M over three years with only $6M of it guaranteed, he would probably take $15 over three with $10M guaranteed. (Those numbers are not based in any reality, I was just trying to make an example). 

    [/QUOTE]

    also factor in the chance at a sb yearly, and that most players that leave here dotn do much elsewhere. he mgiht be more likely to act out elsewhere, esp for a team that wotn put strings in his contract. ie their locker room i doubt would be in th right place to support players like talib.

    if teh pats both save hsi career adn offer him something halfway decent, if hes got any brain cells firing hed learn toward staing id think

    [/QUOTE]

    if we get a sb win, id bet the odds favor that he might be let go.

    what is bb's motivation now we dotn know. ie hes been making changes to some of his stubborn habits this past year. is it bradys window, is he thinking of winning 1 or 2 sb and leaving? whatever it is, this factors in hsi decsions im sure.

    by the way, remember the inexplicable hate here for my saying we should rest hern till his injury is actually healed. hes been out ever since.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]

    You do not need strings in the NFL. Just limit the up front money and cut bait when he becomes a problem. The issue comes if some one is willing to give him less total $, but more of it as guaranteed. In the NFL, you always take the money now.

    So if the Patriots offered him $18M over three years with only $6M of it guaranteed, he would probably take $15 over three with $10M guaranteed. (Those numbers are not based in any reality, I was just trying to make an example). 

    [/QUOTE]

    also factor in the chance at a sb yearly, and that most players that leave here dotn do much elsewhere. he mgiht be more likely to act out elsewhere, esp for a team that wotn put strings in his contract. ie their locker room i doubt would be in th right place to support players like talib.

    if teh pats both save hsi career adn offer him something halfway decent, if hes got any brain cells firing hed learn toward staing id think

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't buy the lockerroom thing. It did not work on Ochocinco or Haynesworth. 

    I think Talis is a good acquisition. I think he will contribute to this team. I think right now, he is saying the right thing, but there is absolutely no reason to think he would take less money to stay here after the season. Does any player actually do that, ever?

    Maybe, on occasion, a guy towards end of his career might, but has anyone ever entering the prime of their career (this is Talib's first sniff at being a FA) truly taken less money to stay?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]

    You do not need strings in the NFL. Just limit the up front money and cut bait when he becomes a problem. The issue comes if some one is willing to give him less total $, but more of it as guaranteed. In the NFL, you always take the money now.

    So if the Patriots offered him $18M over three years with only $6M of it guaranteed, he would probably take $15 over three with $10M guaranteed. (Those numbers are not based in any reality, I was just trying to make an example). 

    [/QUOTE]

    also factor in the chance at a sb yearly, and that most players that leave here dotn do much elsewhere. he mgiht be more likely to act out elsewhere, esp for a team that wotn put strings in his contract. ie their locker room i doubt would be in th right place to support players like talib.

    if teh pats both save hsi career adn offer him something halfway decent, if hes got any brain cells firing hed learn toward staing id think

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't buy the lockerroom thing. It did not work on Ochocinco or Haynesworth. 

    I think Talis is a good acquisition. I think he will contribute to this team. I think right now, he is saying the right thing, but there is absolutely no reason to think he would take less money to stay here after the season. Does any player actually do that, ever?

    Maybe, on occasion, a guy towards end of his career might, but has anyone ever entering the prime of their career (this is Talib's first sniff at being a FA) truly taken less money to stay?

    [/QUOTE]

    he was almost oout of the league when we called. remember

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]

    You do not need strings in the NFL. Just limit the up front money and cut bait when he becomes a problem. The issue comes if some one is willing to give him less total $, but more of it as guaranteed. In the NFL, you always take the money now.

    So if the Patriots offered him $18M over three years with only $6M of it guaranteed, he would probably take $15 over three with $10M guaranteed. (Those numbers are not based in any reality, I was just trying to make an example). 

    [/QUOTE]

    also factor in the chance at a sb yearly, and that most players that leave here dotn do much elsewhere. he mgiht be more likely to act out elsewhere, esp for a team that wotn put strings in his contract. ie their locker room i doubt would be in th right place to support players like talib.

    if teh pats both save hsi career adn offer him something halfway decent, if hes got any brain cells firing hed learn toward staing id think

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't buy the lockerroom thing. It did not work on Ochocinco or Haynesworth. 

    I think Talis is a good acquisition. I think he will contribute to this team. I think right now, he is saying the right thing, but there is absolutely no reason to think he would take less money to stay here after the season. Does any player actually do that, ever?

    Maybe, on occasion, a guy towards end of his career might, but has anyone ever entering the prime of their career (this is Talib's first sniff at being a FA) truly taken less money to stay?

    [/QUOTE]

    he was almost oout of the league when we called. remember

    [/QUOTE]

    I just do not see a guy entering his prime NFL earning years taking less money for a hypothetical "better chance" to win a Super Bowl. I would love it if it happened, but I do not think it will happen...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Compensatory pick for Talib?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to natesubs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    that would be hilarious if talib had a huge season here and we got a 3rd round pick from him for compensatory pick when we only spent less than a 4th.

    [/QUOTE]

    It is based on how much money he signs for elsewhere (plus any other free agents the Patriots lose) minus money the Patriots spend on other players. Basically, the Patriots have to have a net lose in free agency to get any compensation picks.

    Looking at the free agent cornerbacks, the list is not great. I honestly thought Brent Grimes would be the number CB availible in the upcoming offseason but he is out for the year. Rodgers-Cromartie, Tracy Porter, Quentin Jammer, etc.

    It is a real catch-22 though. If Talib plays himself into a big contract do we really want the Patriots letting him walk? 

    [/QUOTE]

    no. keep him contract with strings

    [/QUOTE]

    You do not need strings in the NFL. Just limit the up front money and cut bait when he becomes a problem. The issue comes if some one is willing to give him less total $, but more of it as guaranteed. In the NFL, you always take the money now.

    So if the Patriots offered him $18M over three years with only $6M of it guaranteed, he would probably take $15 over three with $10M guaranteed. (Those numbers are not based in any reality, I was just trying to make an example). 

    [/QUOTE]

    also factor in the chance at a sb yearly, and that most players that leave here dotn do much elsewhere. he mgiht be more likely to act out elsewhere, esp for a team that wotn put strings in his contract. ie their locker room i doubt would be in th right place to support players like talib.

    if teh pats both save hsi career adn offer him something halfway decent, if hes got any brain cells firing hed learn toward staing id think

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't buy the lockerroom thing. It did not work on Ochocinco or Haynesworth. 

    I think Talis is a good acquisition. I think he will contribute to this team. I think right now, he is saying the right thing, but there is absolutely no reason to think he would take less money to stay here after the season. Does any player actually do that, ever?

    Maybe, on occasion, a guy towards end of his career might, but has anyone ever entering the prime of their career (this is Talib's first sniff at being a FA) truly taken less money to stay?

    [/QUOTE]

    he was almost oout of the league when we called. remember

    [/QUOTE]

    I just do not see a guy entering his prime NFL earning years taking less money for a hypothetical "better chance" to win a Super Bowl. I would love it if it happened, but I do not think it will happen...

    [/QUOTE]

    i hear you just its not just sb chance. this is a team that can keep him in the league. whther he factors that in and liking the team he plays weith well see.

     

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