Congrats to the D

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    Rusty

    i just don't think we have the talent on O in the skill positions
    we certainly dodn't have it with Gronk 50%
    Welker,Deon are quick, Woody is speedy
    and BjGE really isn't fast. but they are all small
    too many little bees
    that leaves only Gronk and Hernandez
    Ocho is the only one that could create a mismatch
    on the outside - I think Deon said that the giant DB's were still no match
    for him - even niow

    I also think we dropped a few more passes than we should have
    To me we had the right plays - mostly -but if you drop the pass it doesn't matter. BTW there is some question wheher or not TB was injured-
    after his left shoulder got hit- he was 7/14 But would have to see how many were dropped and the hail mary shouldn't count
    If I can stand it I will tape the replay.
     
    I certainly agree that the O put the D in a hole in the first few minutes
    and the D did great right up until the 38yarder. Heck I thouhg tthe game was going to be over

    I also heard from Edwards that we left 3/4 and tried to
    put pressure on Eli on the last drive - and Eli lit it up then.

    i think one problem we have (and especially with Gronk 50%)
    that there are 2 many defenders near the line for consistent
    running. I get the feeling TB ran what he ran against certain D's
    he saw. There were some imagintive running plays. We could have used more
    The one time we had a clear chance on 3rd and long -welker dropped it.

    I think TB got more time cause we were running effectively and TB had
    used play fakes.

    Not counting the Safety ( I missed your take on that)
    and the last 60 seconds we had only 8 possessions -
    am not sure how many the Gints had-
    most games there are  12-14
    75% of 31pts is about 24 pts for us and 19pts would be about
    16 for the gints- clearly to me the O is a little more responisble than the D
    cause of the beggining

    btw
    I was talking Bruschi and Mcginnest pre 2001
    comparing themto our lb's now
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Congrats to the D : not true. I'll admit TB is to blame for some of it, but he needs a couple more options at WR with speed. B'OB got rid of the one we had. TB just needs to execute better too.
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]
    Not only does he need perhaps a WR or two...but he needs to start using them and developing an active rapport with them as the season progresses...not relying solely on his binky of the week (Gronk, Hernandez, or Welker).

    I'm totally on the train about running the ball.  I mentioned in my musings thread that Weis' playcalling and strategy is sorely missed...and what has been getting this offense to sputter like it has.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]Dude, we won't win jack squat with Brady here ever again unless BB and/or the OC reins him in. You know it, I know it. I didn't want to be right.  It's just impossible to ignore.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    I completely agree with you. I think we have had this argument before though. I put more blame for the offense being unbalanced on Belichick as the head coach. He hires the OC, he ultimately approves the game plan, he has  to tell them to run more, pass more, hurry up, slow down, etc.

    Taking it a step further, he is responsible for personnel decisions so he tells the OC how many TEs, RBs and WRs he is going to have to work with and from whom he has to chose his players.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    i really find it amazing that people can still be in denial about the d performing well, while the o underperforming on the big stage

    the d held the giants below 20...
    that happened only three other times in the season and on each, the giants lost pats d beat their season average pts againstpats d improved upon their performance in their last meeting against the giants
    they held nyg to a punt after one to
    and to think that the second fg they gave up in H2 was really more a result of nyg starting at the nwe 48

    on the other hand, the o...
    scores 17... that's 17 pts below their reg season average
    that's also 7 pts below what nyg's given up on avg in the reg season
    3 pts below what sf (not comparable to pats o) scored against nyg
    over the last 26 mins, squandered 3 chances that the d gave them to widen the lead

    and what one thing were we all saying over the last couple of weeks that the pats cannot afford to do? tunrovers!!!
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Congrats to the D : Should the Giants D be disregarded in holding one of the NFLs great offenses under 20 points?   I'd rather have given up 30 and been able to stop the game winning drive than hold an average Giant offense to under 20 for all but 2 minutes.  I want a D that can make the big play when it needs to, not give up catch after catch in the home stretch.  What was Eli's rating?  110? 120?  They were not very good beside the low point total and the Giants played the kind of game the Patriots would rather stay away from. 
    Posted by Bustchise[/QUOTE]

    17 pts below avg? i would not credit all of that to nyg. please.

    isn't the point of having a good o to score despite facing a good d? what that says is you wimped out when you faced a d that punched back.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Congrats to the D : So, since NE's offense turned it over, had a Safety, immediately putting the D back on the field before they can even look at Polaroids, NE scoring only 17 points is enough in your mind, in this era? The fact is, NY's run game was shut down int he second half, totally isolating the majority of NY's ability to do really much of anything, only securing two freaking FGs. You can plaster pointless yard stats that Tony Mazz and his moron minions pointed to all year long, but you lost that debate in the Baltimore game and last night. Yards allowed is pointless in this era.  Finally, coaching has noting to do with Brady's INT on 1st down or Welker's simple 3rd and 11 drop with no one around him. In fact, BB's gameplan for the D was fantastic consideringwhat the media was babbling about all week with 3 supposed HOF WRs and some Gomer Jr's throwing ability. NE rivaled SF's D in terms of how each D limited what the Giants could do.  Not saying NE's D is on SF's level in terms of talent, but each were similar in terms of points allowed. You can't change what happened or facts.  NE has 2 1st rders, 2 2nd rders and about 20 million in cap space to boot.  To see the core of a D rebuilt, come to fruition as a healthy unit, was great to see and they should be commended for putting Brady and an all world talent base on offense in position to win.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
    Why were we in position to get that safety? Oh yeah, because the bend, but don't break!! Defense allowed the Giants to march the ball to the 40 on their opening drive. A sack caused them to punt, pinning us at the 5. What a way for the offense to start! Hey guys we got you the ball back after 6 minutes and oh yeah, guess what? You get to start the game against a pass rushing team on the 5 yard line. Yippee! And for even more fun after our own punt we're going to let them score a touchdown! At the end of the first quarter we're going to let you have the ball for 2 minutes, isn't that exciting!!

    The truth is there is so much blame to go round in this game, why just pin it on one unit? Welker drops a ball right in his hands that will give us the ball at the 20 with 4 minutes to play (and the Giants only had one timeout left). Nincovich jumps offsides on a third and seven at their ten...what happens next? 3rd and two...boom!! Pass over the middle for a first down. If we make them punt right there we actually would of had decent field position for the first time after three quarters. Too many men on the field negating a fumble recovery. Logan Mankins getting destroyed on a consistent basis. Kyle Love getting pushed backwards, sideways and horizontally. Brady not running for 3 yards after Mankin's blown assignment - and then throwing the ball up for grabs to Gronk...interception. Hernandez drop.

    One thing that really stunned me is at one point of the game they caught a ball over the middle and it looked like one of our safeties had five yards to close in for a devastating hit and dislodge the guy from the ball...what happens? The safety bounces right off the guy and the guy hangs on to it (he did go down, but not nearly as hard as our player). The player in question was not a safety at all, but Mayo! How does a linebacker that builds up five yards of steam and weighs 245 pounds fall like a ton of bricks upon impact on a receiver?

    This game absolutely killed me, because after all the mistakes we made and the bad breaks we got, we still could of won this game.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Congrats to the D : Why were we in position to get that safety? Oh yeah, because the bend, but don't break!! Defense allowed the Giants to march the ball to the 40 on their opening drive. A sack caused them to punt, pinning us at the 5. What a way for the offense to start! ....
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]


    you are putting the blame for that safety on the d? sorry but this comical now. it was a bad decision on tb's part period.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Congrats to the D : you are putting the blame for that safety on the d? sorry but this comical now. it was a bad decision on tb's part period.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Ok, I guess if you're the best QB of all time you're supposed to be able to start drive after drive from your five yard line against a great pass rushing team. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm trying to see it from that perspective, which a lot of people are doing. I guess if the guy is the best of all time, it shouldn't matter that the Giants brought very good heat on that play and several more in the second half. It shouldn't matter that your best target was playing on one leg or that your outside receivers are small and have limited speed. It shouldn't matter that your backs would get some decent yardage and then get absolutely buried on others, putting your offense in 2nd and 12's.

    I'm serious, if I look at it from that perspective then you're right. I guess you can throw in the fact that the defense never could get off the field (not one single three and out), which caused a time of possession of 38 minutes to 22. But in reality Brady could of had something to do with that as well.

    The game absolutely killed me, if it was Brady's fault I'll gladly blame him.
     
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Congrats to the D : Ok, I guess if you're the best QB of all time you're supposed to be able to start drive after drive from your five yard line against a great pass rushing team....
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    he's one of the best of all time. that's why it is so upsetting that he made that stupid mistake that rookies barely even make. go back and watch a replay. he had 4.4 secs before getting hit - more than enough time to make the right decision - especially against a great pass rushing team.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    The defense did not play a great game.

    Taking away the safety, they allowed the Giants to score on half of their offensive possessions (that is not good). When it force the Giants to punt the still used up 3, 4 or even 5 minutes of clock time and gave up valuable yardage that constantly left the offense with a long field.

    The score was not low because it was a great defensive games. The score was low because the Giants wanted it that way. They played a strategy that limited the Patriots possesions (8 total offensive possessions - normally teams get around 12). They imposed their will on the game with their offense and the Patriots could not turn it into the fast-paced, high-scoring affair that they are best at. Coughlin knows how to beat this team, and BB has not been able to find an effective counterpunch.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    Yup, the jints averaged nearly 5 minutes a possession which is almost double the average.  No 3 and outs killed them. 
    D gotta get the ball back quicker.
    They did try and counteract with the O going more vertical and mostly short, quick release passes.  The problem in 07 was waiting too long for the receivers to get in position and resulted in a lot of sacks and hits.
    It doesn't help if the D doesn't give you the ball.
    Those lost 4 possessions would have been huge.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]Brady was picked and NE only had 1 legit drive out of the 8 possessions, though.  The Safety thing to start was also a huge problem because it put the D right back on the field, immediately. Their only legit drive in the first half was the hurry up one before halftime. You can't win a SB with only a hurry up offense working as a base offense. I warned of this back in Week 2 when it appeared it wasn't just a wrinkle in Week 1, but some of sort of crutch Brady might lean on too much. Face it, without a healthy Gronk, all the more reason to use him as a decoy, blocker, etc, and hand it off to BJGE 20 times. I'll never understand why O'Brien wasn't doing more to get him carries. It makes absolutely zero sense unless he was hurt and they didn't trust Ridley.  Fact is, NY's backs aren't more impressive than NE's, but NY just simply used theirs. We didn't. The D played a good game, asbolutely.  Take away the Safety from NE and the INT, and the TOP aspect is closer to a 30:30 thing, especially with more running from BJGE.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    The had three legit drive two TDs and a FG. The two TD drives were both in the hurry up. If anything the hurry worked better than the base offense. However, the Giants wanted to limit their number of drives and they were succesful because the Patriots allowed them to eat up time and yardage every single time the got the ball and control the tempo of the game.

    I hate that "take away a couple of plays" stuff. Those plays happened and they are part of the game. You might as well say, take away the bad holding call at the end of the first half and the non-PI call on Moore in the 4th and this game could have been 35-10 with the Giants have 40+ minutes of possession instead.

    The Gronk decoy thing was a failure, the Giants quickly switched to covering him with one LB (something that would never have worked with him healthy). They would have been better off using 3 WRs and Hernandez or maybe since their offense was built around two TE sets maybe have more that two TEs on your roster!!!

    Obviously, the coaches, BB and O'B do not think that they are going to win a lot of games handing the ball to BJGE 20 times per game. He is an unrestricted free agent as well so he might not even be an option next year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from orangecrush28. Show orangecrush28's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    I agree completely. Look at P Mannings only Super Bowl. That was the year the Colts run game was at it's best. When the score was 12-12 and 17-15, thats when we shoudl havelet BJGE take over. Instead its 41 throws to not even 20 runs.

    I do question BB/OB on some things though. Why activate Ridley if hes not gonna come close to sniffing the field once. Heck why even draft him and vareen.

    I have defended the offense and blasted the de at times this season but i just this time. The defense allowed 19 points. If you tell me on sunday morning that the D is gonna hold the giants to 19 points, I say that theres a better chance of james harrison joining the KKK than there is of the Pats losing this game. Their D isnt the fckng 85 bears, nor even remotely close. Its just for what is labeled a lethal/elite offense by so many, I expect more than 17 points against the 27th ranked D.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]Brady makes 20 million per year. Case closed. I am done debating. I know what I saw. I saw two things that could not happen: 40+ passes 1 INT by Brady Our offense was better (more balanced, efficient, etc) last year in 2010 (not in January) than this year.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    So the less balanced offense came closer to winning the Championship?

    In your mind, Brady makes the most money so ultimately it comes down to him. In my mind, Belichick is the head coach (and GM) so everything comes down to him.

    I could care less what a player makes. If you are going that way, what about Wilfork you highest paid defender being a nonfactor for the game after dominating in the AFC Championship game.

    Belichick put together this roster. If he decided to put money into the offense over the defense, that is his fault not Brady's. I believe they played the season about $12M under the salary cap. You would think you could find a good defensive player or two for that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    Hey Rusty-I was thinking about what you  have been saying for awhile after last nights loss, that it is the offense that has been costing us in the playoffs. You know you are right--except for the Denver game the D has held their own it is the offense that has choked in the big ones-- 17 points from this offense is pathetic!!! We need a down field threat and a real running back!!!In Response to Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE]Maligned all year, came together at the end and really were very good allowing 13 points until a Brady INT and a slew of missed plays by the offense. I couldn't expect much more than what they did.  Special tip of the cap to Pepper Johnson, the DB coach (forget who that is) and Patricia for holding the fort through all the injuries (two months worth), and especially for BB to being very wise and waiting on Spikes and CHhung so long to make sure they were ready for real. They deserve a ton of credit for rallying around one another and growing up in front of our eyes a bit from last year. BB has a really strong base of good young talent here to work from.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    Where was Ochocinco after that beautiful 21 yard reception in the opening drive of the second half. Gronk was useless for obvious reasons I figured at that point the plan B was three wide outs and Hernandez. Both Brady and Belichick have to learn players make plays not coaches and as Giselle of all people realized receivers get paid to make catches and get open. Branch is a Volvo running a route but Tom and he connect on the scrambles, I get that. Ocho is still a Porsche, what a waste, those two are great compliments but they kept their best receiver on his bunda.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    In Response to Re: Congrats to the D:
    [QUOTE] The reality was, NE had momentum, 17-9, then the D held twice for FGs, when the offense did jack squat to battle and answer the bell for the D. 
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]


    Holding for field goals?  The reason we were up 17-9 at that point was because the O (who you won't credit for anything) had run two very nice drives--one to end the first half and one to begin the second. A stop by the D would have been huge, but instead they gave up a clock-killing 4 and half minute drive (special teams hurt too, since Gostkowski's kick was short after the Pats' TD) which resulted in three points.  The O came out and--unfortunately--handed the ball to BJGE on first down, which netted just two yards.  They then failed to sub for BJGE and tried to throw to him out of the backfield.  Incompletion.  Sack on third down.  Relying on BJGE failed miserably at a key point in the game.  Now the D had a second chance to make a big stop.  Because the O stalled out deep in their own side of the field (yes, the O deserves blame for that, thanks to the anemic run), the Giants had great field position.  The D, however, failed to make a stop and instead gave up a 5 minute clock-killer that again resulted in three points. Then comes the boneheaded Brady-Gronk interception.  Yep, that's the offense's fault, no doubt.  But what does the D do with the Giants starting back at their 8 yard line? Give up more than 40 yards over close to five minutes.  The Giants didn't score, but they were able to punt from the 44 giving  the Pats' O the ball with lousy field position (on the 12). 

    These are the facts--and if you get your massive ego out of the way for just a minute--you'll see that the poor second half resulted from failures of both the O and the D.  The O's inability to score was big.  But just as big was the D's failure to get the Giants off the field in a low-scoring game and giving up both field goals and lots of clock.  It was only a 9 drive game (8 if you ignore the Giants' kneel down and the Pats last minute desperation drive). The reason the number of drives was so low was because the Giants O was able to maintain long drives.  This was their game plan.  Reduce the number of drives to reduce Brady's and the Pats O's scoring opportunities and get at least 3 points from as many of our own drives as possible. The D did nothing to counter that.  It can't.  It can't stop long passes. 

    These are the facts.  Your constant harping on simplistic formulas (don't throw the ball more than 40 yards, run BJGE 20 times) has nothing to do with real football.  It's all about your silly ego (as have been most of your posts as the season has worn on).  It would be annoying if your overblown opinion of yourself weren't so ridiculously absurd given your complete lack of real football knowledge.

    Yeah, you're smarter than Bill Belichick.  We all know . . . you tell us constantly. It's getting old. 


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from cosmo14. Show cosmo14's posts

    Re: Congrats to the D

    You can't be serious....congrats to no one on this team...the D did not force one 3 and out. Not counting the one play kneel down at the end of the half, the Giants shortest drive was 7 plays.

    The offense dropped passes, Brady threw a stupid int and not to mention the safety.  Then the partying afterward.
     
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