Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    Granma was a wise woman, another bit of her advise to me "treat a woman with respect and she "treat" you" I was twelve and didn't have clue as what she meant...I chuckle about it now.



    ...and I still don't have a clue
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    I would be willing to bet that, the more you knew about the actual personal lives of most professional athletes, the less you would be inclined to cheer for them.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    A lot of diverse opinions here! For my part, I would never want to see this slimeball (the real description I would use would be censored) join the Patriots. And not only because I find him to be a subhuman piece of garbage. There is really no spot on the team which he could fill. I don't consider him to be a good QB, and even if he was, we have Brady. It's not like they need another WR or RB, either. One of the biggest detractions (IMO) is his seeming lack of intelligence. I don't believe he has what it takes to be a Patriot between the ears! I cannot see them copying Miami's wildcat nonsense...we have Brady, Moss, and Welker! It's not like they need a bunch of trick plays on offense! So from a purely team "need" standpoint, I can't see Vick fitting into their plans.

    The other aspect of signing a guy like him is the publicity. The Patriots do not like a media circus in attendance for every game. There are likely to be protesters visiting every game of any team who signs Vick. BB does not want his team being distracted, and Vick would be a continuous distraction wherever he goes. Bob Kraft is a successful businessman. He wouldn't want to risk (IMO) any fallout with colleagues, sponsors, etc. that signing this guy might bring. To me it seems like a high risk/low reward proposition. The Patriots have never gone for that type of deal under the current ownership, I cannot see them doing so now.

    A note to all you posters who seem to be misinformed. Michael Vick did NOT do time for animal cruelty! He did time for the money he made on an illegal activity, and for illegal interstate commerce. Any charges of animal cruelty would have to be procecuted by the Commonwealth of Virginia, and I can't recall him doing any state time for that. It's also ridiculous to compare his case to guys like Stallworth. I agree Donte got off too easy for what he did. But in the end it was an unfortunate accident, whereas Vick was engaged in longtime criminal activity for profit (all the more despicable as he had a $130 million NFL contract at the time, and certainly didn't need the extra cash). It's even worse to compare him to other "problem" players signed by NE like Dillon and Moss. These two had attitude problems, but were not criminals, and certainly not sadistic a-holes like Vick! That's like comparing Jeffrey Dahmer to a guy arrested for drunk and disorderly on a Saturday night!

    I also have to side with Laurie on her "troll accusations". Number of posts and join date aside, those who come here claiming "I hope NE signs him just so all you yahoos will be p i s s e d" indeed seem like trolls to me. If you honestly think Vick would be an asset to the team then I respect your opinion, though I strongly disagree. But at the beginning of this thread there were definitely some who were only advocating signing this guy because it would upset a lot of fans. That is being a troll, IMO.

    I've rambled enough, so I'll only add one more thing (also my own animals are gathered around me as it's approaching 5 pm here, which is "din-din" time, and much more important ...to them...then my posting on Boston.com!). While there have been numerous "morons" in the league lately who IMO should be banned as well as Vick should, that in no way lessens the heinous acts that Vick was involved in. He did not simply "put these dogs out of their misery" after losing a fight as some have claimed. These dogs were maliciously tortured and killed merely because they were weaker than others. They were chained in the yard without food or water. They were beaten to death with baseball bats. The animal cruelty is bad enough, but look at the implications. To me it seems that anyone who would do these things is a very sick individual. And nobody (except maybe Laurie) has even hinted that there must be some underlying psycological issues with this man. If he did the same to humans he would be deemed "dangerous", and not be allowed to walk free until cleared by numerous psycologists. Yet since he only acted like a "Nazi" toward dogs, no one cares about his mental capacity. IMO this guy belongs in Oakland, not Foxboro! I would be very disappointed (and surprised) if the Patriots even considered taking him on.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    Mental capacity?

    Hmmm  . . .

    I should think that a pyschotic bent would be considered an advantage in a sport that celebrates violence the way the NFL does.

    Sanctioned, proper violence, mind you.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NHPats1Fan. Show NHPats1Fan's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    Vick would be a perfect fit for the Patriots.  He has done his time.  The Pats have a strong track record of taking in someone who is a troublemaker or has a faulty past and making them a winner again.  It is worth the shot on Vick.  Look how Randy Moss turned out.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    Are you seriously comparing Randy Moss to Vick?! Can we say troll?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dogbones. Show dogbones's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    vicky doesn' have the iq to be a pat.

    stupid is what stupid does

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    Vick would be a perfect fit for the Patriots.  He has done his time.  The Pats have a strong track record of taking in someone who is a troublemaker or has a faulty past and making them a winner again.  It is worth the shot on Vick.  Look how Randy Moss turned out.
    Posted by NHPats1Fan


    Well, I hear they are paroling Charlie Manson! I have an idea, he can move in next door to you. Maybe you can have your daughter go out with him when she's home from college! After all, he would have "done his time"!!!
     
    And I see what you mean about him being a perfect fit! I know we really need a guy who cannot complete a pass, and who cannot read, much less comprehend the playbook! But he'd be perfect for a wildcat formation. The way the Patriots offense s u c k s they really need to try something new!

    And I'm just as disappointed as you that Randy didn't get two years in jail for "mock-mooning" those fans in GB! The nerve of some people. Also bumping that meter maid! He should have got life for that one. A real bad actor. Maybe when OJ gets out we can sign him up as the RB coach!

    I just can't believe some of the BS I read here sometimes!!!!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from STAUGGY. Show STAUGGY's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?! : hmm, was his punishment not enough? Where were your outraged comments when Stallworth got 30 days in COUNTY jail for killing a human being? Maybe...you like dogs more than your own species?
    Posted by DrDoItchBig

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from STAUGGY. Show STAUGGY's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    I don't think I have any real problem with Vick if the Pats sign him. I'm just wondering what position would he play. I really don't think he could fill Tom Brady's shoes. And I wouldn't want to see Tom pulled from the playing field in specific situations where Vick would come in as QB for a play here and there. We already have the best QB in the league. Would Vick be a wide receiver? running back? slot receiver? I really and honestly don't know. He's a talented athlete for sure. But I don't want him replacing Brady. So what position do you think he would play if he was on the Pats?
    Posted by 13lucky

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect81. Show mosseffect81's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    A lot of diverse opinions here! For my part, I would never want to see this slimeball (the real description I would use would be censored) join the Patriots. And not only because I find him to be a subhuman piece of garbage. There is really no spot on the team which he could fill. I don't consider him to be a good QB, and even if he was, we have Brady. It's not like they need another WR or RB, either. One of the biggest detractions (IMO) is his seeming lack of intelligence. I don't believe he has what it takes to be a Patriot between the ears! I cannot see them copying Miami's wildcat nonsense...we have Brady, Moss, and Welker! It's not like they need a bunch of trick plays on offense! So from a purely team "need" standpoint, I can't see Vick fitting into their plans. The other aspect of signing a guy like him is the publicity. The Patriots do not like a media circus in attendance for every game. There are likely to be protesters visiting every game of any team who signs Vick. BB does not want his team being distracted, and Vick would be a continuous distraction wherever he goes. Bob Kraft is a successful businessman. He wouldn't want to risk (IMO) any fallout with colleagues, sponsors, etc. that signing this guy might bring. To me it seems like a high risk/low reward proposition. The Patriots have never gone for that type of deal under the current ownership, I cannot see them doing so now. A note to all you posters who seem to be misinformed. Michael Vick did NOT do time for animal cruelty! He did time for the money he made on an illegal activity, and for illegal interstate commerce. Any charges of animal cruelty would have to be procecuted by the Commonwealth of Virginia, and I can't recall him doing any state time for that. It's also ridiculous to compare his case to guys like Stallworth. I agree Donte got off too easy for what he did. But in the end it was an unfortunate accident, whereas Vick was engaged in longtime criminal activity for profit (all the more despicable as he had a $130 million NFL contract at the time, and certainly didn't need the extra cash). It's even worse to compare him to other "problem" players signed by NE like Dillon and Moss. These two had attitude problems, but were not criminals, and certainly not sadistic a-holes like Vick! That's like comparing Jeffrey Dahmer to a guy arrested for drunk and disorderly on a Saturday night! I also have to side with Laurie on her "troll accusations". Number of posts and join date aside, those who come here claiming "I hope NE signs him just so all you yahoos will be p i s s e d" indeed seem like trolls to me. If you honestly think Vick would be an asset to the team then I respect your opinion, though I strongly disagree. But at the beginning of this thread there were definitely some who were only advocating signing this guy because it would upset a lot of fans. That is being a troll, IMO. I've rambled enough, so I'll only add one more thing (also my own animals are gathered around me as it's approaching 5 pm here, which is "din-din" time, and much more important ...to them...then my posting on Boston.com!). While there have been numerous "morons" in the league lately who IMO should be banned as well as Vick should, that in no way lessens the heinous acts that Vick was involved in. He did not simply "put these dogs out of their misery" after losing a fight as some have claimed. These dogs were maliciously tortured and killed merely because they were weaker than others. They were chained in the yard without food or water. They were beaten to death with baseball bats. The animal cruelty is bad enough, but look at the implications. To me it seems that anyone who would do these things is a very sick individual. And nobody (except maybe Laurie) has even hinted that there must be some underlying psycological issues with this man. If he did the same to humans he would be deemed "dangerous", and not be allowed to walk free until cleared by numerous psycologists. Yet since he only acted like a "Nazi" toward dogs, no one cares about his mental capacity. IMO this guy belongs in Oakland, not Foxboro! I would be very disappointed (and surprised) if the Patriots even considered taking him on.
    Posted by bubthegrub2
    I guess in a lot of ways this makes you a troll.you are comeing off against vick with what he has done.even though he has done his time,and lost just about everything.it dosent matter to you.in your eyes he is a disgrace,and should be banned for life.all of this is your opinion.which is fine.but just because another person has a diffrent opinion,dosent make him a troll.oh i agree someone who has just one post could be to spread some hate.but everyone has to start somewhere with that being post number one,and in time they will reach your 1000.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Physics. Show Physics's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    Do I think it will happen? No. Could I see it happening? Yes. The reason is really that Dungy factor.. that is, if Dungy is heavily involved, I could see a team, perhaps even the Patriots, trying to take advantage of that situation. Dungy is one of the 'good guys' image wise of the NFL, and he's not that old. There are plenty of teams that likely could use a guy like Dungy involved in their operations, perhaps not only as the Vick mentor, but also as a way to get him back in the game... Perhaps not the Patriots, but I could see some other team doing this, putting Vick and Dungy out there on camera, etc...
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    I would imagine that animal lovers probably know all they need to know about a guy like Vick to form their opinions.

    It's no different than, say, a guy like me for instance, giving less credence  to the opinions of people who can't spell.

    Where is MVPkilla when you need him?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TWisch. Show TWisch's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?! : Well, I hear they are paroling Charlie Manson! I have an idea, he can move in next door to you. Maybe you can have your daughter go out with him when she's home from college! After all, he would have "done his time"!!!


    Are you seriously comparing a serial killer to Vick?!?!?!?!?!?!

    I know this is hard to get through some peoples heads, but dogs are NOT people!  Players have killed people, and they don't even serve a day in jail, but you mess with some dogs, you do 2 years, and never get a second chance at life?????

    Give me a break, get off your high horse people!

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/2009-07-28-vick-patriots_N.htm
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from techierick. Show techierick's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    The New England Patriots would win 3 Super Bowls in a row if Vick was brought in as a backup/Wildcat Back/QB.  Can you imagine what Bill B would do with Brady, Moss, Welker, Galloway, Maroney and VICK????????? Ok, we get it, Americans love Dogs and he was convicted for being cruel to them.  He's also done his time and will serve an additional suspension by the NFL.  He's lost millions and almost lost everything.  Short of killing a person, a la Dante Stallworth, he's repaid his debt to society. While i'm on a roll, how does Vick get 2 years for hurting dogs and (Former Patriot) Dante Stallworth get 28 days for killing a person????
    Posted by dino1980


    This is the part that really sticks in my craw.  Vick did what, 2 years in prison. While what he did is reprehensible, does it even approach the seriousness of killing another human being? It's a serious reflection on our society that this can happen, AND not only happen but be cheered.

    Has Vick paid his debt? YES. You better believe it, and as such deserves the right to TRY to get back in the NFL. Everyone has the right to earn a living once they've paid their debt. The bigger question is how much is he going to be able to offer a team at this point. He was a giant armed quarterback with mediocre to poor accuracy, and iffy skills reading a defense. Does anyone think those skills improved over the last two years in prison? I question just how good he can be after the hiatus. THAT is why I don't think we'll see him in Foxboro.

    Honestly, Vick did some crappy stuff, but he didn't kill anyone (stallworth, Rey Carruth) or rape anyone (Christian Peter). While playing in the NFL isn't a RIGHT, he does have the right to sell his skills to the highest bidder. I just don't know think that bidder will be NE, and question whether it will be anyone in the NFL.

    Rick
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostOfLombardi. Show GhostOfLombardi's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    several things:

    1--The textbook psychological profile of serial killers directly relates animal abuse and torture as a major component of their escalating behavioral sociopathy.  Comparing Vick's behavior to that of a serial killer is not as far-fetched as your mock-outrage would seem to indicate. 

    2--Michael Vick is a player that simply does not fit the NEP playbook.  He didn't before his conviction and he doesn't now.  I wouldn't want Michael or his punk brother Marcus anywhere near the NEP.  Michael Vick has done his time, certainly, but there is absolutely no 'right' involved in him becoming any more than the guy that takes your order at Burger King.  His future, whatever it may be, will not be subsidized by my hard-earned money. 

    3--You need to develop a proper sense of perspective.  Killing dogs ruthlessly for sport is easily as abominable as killing a human. 

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?! : Are you seriously comparing a serial killer to Vick?!?!?!?!?!?! I know this is hard to get through some peoples heads, but dogs are NOT people!  Players have killed people, and they don't even serve a day in jail, but you mess with some dogs, you do 2 years, and never get a second chance at life????? Give me a break, get off your high horse people! http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/2009-07-28-vick-patriots_N.htm
    Posted by TWisch

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    The difference between Stallworth and Vick is malice, Vick had it Stallworth didn't.

    Malice is a legal term referring to a party's intention to do injury to another party. 




     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    several things: 1--The textbook psychological profile of serial killers directly relates animal abuse and torture as a major component of their escalating behavioral sociopathy.  Comparing Vick's behavior to that of a serial killer is not as far-fetched as your mock-outrage would seem to indicate.  2--Michael Vick is a player that simply does not fit the NEP playbook.  He didn't before his conviction and he doesn't now.  I wouldn't want Michael or his punk brother Marcus anywhere near the NEP.  Michael Vick has done his time, certainly, but there is absolutely no 'right' involved in him becoming any more than the guy that takes your order at Burger King.  His future, whatever it may be, will not be subsidized by my hard-earned money.  3--You need to develop a proper sense of perspective.  Killing dogs ruthlessly for sport is easily as abominable as killing a human.  In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?! :
    Posted by GhostOfLombardi


    And how do you know that Vick won't fit in here?  Do you have some kind of inside information that the rest of us don't have?  Look, I understand what Vick did upset a lot of people, but he's human and humans make mistakes.  I'm willing to bet that everyone on this board has done something that someone else considered vile.  What people need to understand is that chapter of his life is over and it's time to move on.  Hypothetically speaking, let's say you have a brother who killed another person.  He goes to prision and gets out... do you diswon him?  Do you tell him you want nothing to do with him?  If so, it's you who have the problem.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    N2, I'm willing to bet you'd lose your bet. I doubt many here have done anything as vile as what Vick did, and your hypothetical doesn't make sense, Vick is not my brother so I/we don't have to accept him back or forgive him. Just like anyone else doesn't have to forgive my brother if he were a murderer.



     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostOfLombardi. Show GhostOfLombardi's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    That's a serious question isn't it? 

    Mike Vick won't fit in because his skillset (or lackof therein) does not fit in with the NEP offensive scheme.  If you need more elaboration on that, then feel free to take it from Mike Reiss, as he echoes my sentiments but has far more credibility than I should, as an anon poster on a web forum. 

    Bottom line is that you have all the information that you need to make a logical conclusion regarding whether Mike Vick's skillset would complement the NEP.  If you refuse to acknowledge this, then you are being either obtuse, disingenuous or both. 

    Lastly--as I mentioned--I wouldn't have wanted Vick BEFORE the dog fighting conviction.  He does not impress me as a football player.  As an athlete, he is impressive, but I want football players--guys that care about the team and put the team first.  This is very simple:  Mike Vick would not, in a net-sum equation, make the NEP a better ballclub.  He would eat up valuable cap space and a valuable roster spot.  And yes, I'd rather have BenJarvus Green-Ellis than Mike Vick.  At least the Lawfirm plays special teams and is neither a prima donna nor a behavioral concern (nor a distraction for that matter). 

    As to my brother going to jail for killing someone--it wouldn't surprise me--he's an a-hole. 

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?! : And how do you know that Vick won't fit in here?  Do you have some kind of inside information that the rest of us don't have?  Look, I understand what Vick did upset a lot of people, but he's human and humans make mistakes.  I'm willing to bet that everyone on this board has done something that someone else considered vile.  What people need to understand is that chapter of his life is over and it's time to move on.  Hypothetically speaking, let's say you have a brother who killed another person.  He goes to prision and gets out... do you diswon him?  Do you tell him you want nothing to do with him?  If so, it's you who have the problem.
    Posted by N2thaIzzo

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    In Response to Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!:
    N2, I'm willing to bet you'd lose your bet. I doubt many here have done anything as vile as what Vick did, and your hypothetical doesn't make sense, Vick is not my brother so I/we don't have to accept him back or forgive him. Just like anyone else doesn't have to forgive my brother if he were a murderer.
    Posted by Harleyroadking111


    I didn't say as vile as what Vick did.  I just said vile to someone else.  I am not an "animal lover", so while I see the bad in what Vick did, I don't think it was no where as bad as people are making it out to be.  And my point in using the brother hypothetical is to say Vick human just like your brother is, so if you can forgive one, why not the other?  If Vick were to sign to the Pats, I doubt anyone's life would be altered at all.  So why argue that he shouldn't sign?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Conjecture about Vick coming to New England?!

    sign vick up IMO
     
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