CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    I also am afraid that we will not get the difference in Turnovers' that made the 14-2 season
    Posted by seawolfxs


    I'm glad you brought this up.

    I suppose there's two ways to look at the Pats' record turnover ration from last season. If you're one of those people who believe that turnovers simply "happen," then you could point out that New England was probably not as good as its 14-2 record indicated (which was born out when they played a familiar team in the playoffs). Conversely, you might believe that turnovers are "caused" and that certain teams actually make them a priority, in which case you might say that the turnover ratio indicates exactly what the Patriots were trying to do.

    Either way, we all saw what happened in the playoffs when the Pats could neither (a) take the ball away from New Jersey nor (b) hang onto it themselves. I have no problem with an aggressive, ball-hawking team -- winning the turnover battle is almost always a precursor to success -- but I'm not sure how much faith I have in it as an actual strategy.



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81dbb13b/GameDay-Jets-vs-Patriots

    I might be mistaken: KOPPEN is the one not cutting it on big plays against the Jets in the playoffs

    He gives up Shaun Ellis' first sack and he whiffs on 3rd & 1 in the 3rd quarter

    Point being that the interior blocking isn't up to snuff, and yes, Mankins is overrated as a pass protector, but average is still better than substandard and I don't see Connolly winning battles in key moments, nor do I see Koppen winning battles in key moments.  I don't think this changes come regular season and playoffs.

    The Pats can still game plan and scheme and win most games as constituted, but these problems don't seem like the type that go away.  You can either beat the guy in front of you or you can't.  Koppen and Connolly just aren't beating the David Harrises, Bart Scotts, Ray Lewises, Haloti Ngatas, Casey Hamptons, Timmonses, Footes, Suhs, Rajis, et al of the league.

    Hopefully Cannon can contribute this year.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!


    I thought Connelly to be good against the run
    This seems to be the first time we are consistently
            worried about Koppen
    Is Cannon supposed to be that good?

    Is it me or is every NFL team's biggesy weakness
            in their Oline?
      Even GB was weak last year until the playoffs

           
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81dbb13b/GameDay-Jets-vs-Patriots I might be mistaken: KOPPEN is the one not cutting it on big plays against the Jets in the playoffs He gives up Shaun Ellis' first sack and he whiffs on 3rd & 1 in the 3rd quarter Point being that the interior blocking isn't up to snuff, and yes, Mankins is overrated as a pass protector, but average is still better than substandard and I don't see Connolly winning battles in key moments, nor do I see Koppen winning battles in key moments.  I don't think this changes come regular season and playoffs. The Pats can still game plan and scheme and win most games as constituted, but these problems don't seem like the type that go away.  You can either beat the guy in front of you or you can't.  Koppen and Connolly just aren't beating the David Harrises, Bart Scotts, Ray Lewises, Haloti Ngatas, Casey Hamptons, Timmonses, Footes, Suhs, Rajis, et al of the league. Hopefully Cannon can contribute this year.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188


    I agree with this. Center to Right is having a difficult time, and this seems the spot we are getting beat most often. I don't think Koppen nor Connolly are going to win any battles over elite competition. Knowing this, how do we change things? It would be crazy to assume we jsut keep doinng things the same when we face superior competiton on the DL, we need to gameplan more effectively in these situations as to not expose this weakness. The question is, how do you do it?
    I'm sure BB and O'Brien have asked themselves this same question and have answers, I just don't see it playing itself out on the field. Cannon will be key here, but he's still a ways away from contributing. Lets see how this OL looks against the Giants. I imagine we'll be faced with the same challenges, and I want to see how we respond.
     
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    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    I thought Connelly to be good against the run This seems to be the first time we are consistently         worried about Koppen Is Cannon supposed to be that good? Is it me or is every NFL team's biggesy weakness         in their Oline?   Even GB was weak last year until the playoffs        
    Posted by seawolfxs


    I always thought that Koppen was great on the basis of reputation, but a few years ago ProFootballFocus had him ranked something like 20th and it kinda opened my eyes to perception versus reality

    apparently he struggles with elite nose tackles (as many centers do).  Somebody gets left alone in the process (Mankins, Connolly, Koppen) and one of them ends up looking bad as they get beat.  In the run game, Mankins can more than hold his own, but I think Connolly got help last year.  It certianly looked like that was the case against the Jets.  Mankins on an island wasn't noticeable, but I think they had to choose between helping Koppen and helping Connolly and Koppen looked bad on that first Shaun Ellis sack and that 3rd-and-1 in the 3rd quarter.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    Connolly, when he plays on two good legs, is a serviceable and pretty steady OL. Ohrenberger, on the other hand, is just too small. He gets eaten up by bigger, stronger DL's on a consistent basis. You can only get by on technique for so long. His frame isn't that big, so you can forget about him lifting to add real size, plus he's on the short side. To see him subbing for Koppen at the center spot scares me to death since Koppen himself has problems with big, strong Nose Tackles and DT's and Koppen is an All-Pro compared to Ohrenberger.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: RIGHT GUARD!!!

    In Response to Re: RIGHT GUARD!!!:
    In Response to Re: RIGHT GUARD!!! : What?  Were they bad at RG last year? No. Another overreacting Pats fan. So be it. Maybe Solder gets some work there and then we see Cannon able to get some looks. Not buying this negative spin.  You both were AWFULLY quiet about this supposed issue the prior 2 weeks.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    Why blame Bill O'Brien for the bad play at guard?  That is my point.  They stunk up the place and that's a fact.  I'm not panicking, I'm going with what I see and what I saw wasn't very good. It looked a great deal like last years YETS playoff loss and we should not be satisfied with that kind of performance, preseason or not.  Will it get better?  Sure hope so and I think that BB and the coaching staff will see to it that the proper adjustments are made but making excuses for bad play is simply making excuses.  It wasn't a game for the record but we all felt the PATS were better than that.  When they stink we should be honest and say so, not make up conspiracy theories like some I've seen here, though not from you.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    I think Nate Solder would do pretty well at right guard. 

    He's quick.  He's quite good at pulling.  He's intelligent.  He led the NCAA with something like 140 pancake blocks last season, so he can run block.  He still has huge arms to wrap up attackers.  At guard, no defensive end is going to run far to his left or to his right.  Solder knew that he needed more lower body strength but I think he's been working out for a few months.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from McFEETers. Show McFEETers's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    they ran 8 times in the first quarter- thats what i heard on the radio
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!! : NY Times does their rankings every year and he was top 10 last year. I believed they called him steady and consistent, which I thought was fair. I still say he looks like everyone else on the line when the defense can pounce on the predictable pass first offense. And that's either not good or inconsistent. A change from him would be fine in the future, but I don't feel he is as bad as some make him out to be either. It's like if you aren't All Pro here, you're bad. 
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I'm just saying that neither Connolly nor Koppen are guys you can trust on an island against elite competition, and unfortunately it's tough to compensate for both.  Koppen proved it against the Jets in the playoffs (and against the Giants way back when where he didn't just get beat, but he was also painfully flat-footed and lost as delayed blitzers and stunters ran by him).  Connolly proved it Saturday, showing that he, like many NFL linemen, have their limitations and he can't stop elite defensive linemen on his own (even Johnson, the #3 tackle on the Lions, beat Connolly on a couple plays... top pick Fairley was injured)

    Will it show against MOST teams?  Probably not.  The Pats are better than at least 26/32 teams by virtue of Belichick and other talent. 

    But the 5 they'll need to beat to be Super Bowl Champions are the ones who will run roughshod right over Koppen and Connolly.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    So when did you become the head coach?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    So when did you become the head coach?
    Posted by kansaspatriot


    About the same time you earned the right to post a condescending remark sans legitimate argument just because you're a homer who can't take that the Patriots might have any weaknesses that should be discussed.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Michael02127. Show Michael02127's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    Dan Connolly got beat like a drum Then he left the game with an injured pride and Rich Ohrnberger proved that things could in fact get worse by failing to even make contact with Lions defensive linemen, whiffing on Charles Johnson repeatedly. Right guard is a SERIOUS issue.  Right now the fastest path to hitting Brady is a straight line through Connolly and Ohrnberger. And yes, Russ, we should have invested in a new right guard instead of Connolly.  Connolly is a great short yardage fullback and backup interior lineman, but as you have seen, he doesn't hold a candle against guys like Ndamakung Suh (or Gerald McCoy or Simone Pouha or any number of elite nose tackles and defensive tackles who the Patriots will face this season).  $9 million in cap space is wonderful, but it doesn't keep Brady upright in the pocket against an elite pass rush. While everyone got beat, the right guard spot was epsecially bad.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188


    Nick I agree we need an upgrade talent and depth wise at the position and now with Sander and wilhite gone that cap $$ is more like $13 mil, however I also think that if we committed to the run and could excute a screen properly teams wouldn't be teeing up on are Oline as much.  Detriot has one of the best front 4 in the game but even average Defs look good if they are always playing the pass and being aggressive.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    Dan Connolly got beat like a drum Then he left the game with an injured pride and Rich Ohrnberger proved that things could in fact get worse by failing to even make contact with Lions defensive linemen, whiffing on Charles Johnson repeatedly. Right guard is a SERIOUS issue.  Right now the fastest path to hitting Brady is a straight line through Connolly and Ohrnberger. And yes, Russ, we should have invested in a new right guard instead of Connolly.  Connolly is a great short yardage fullback and backup interior lineman, but as you have seen, he doesn't hold a candle against guys like Ndamakung Suh (or Gerald McCoy or Simone Pouha or any number of elite nose tackles and defensive tackles who the Patriots will face this season).  $9 million in cap space is wonderful, but it doesn't keep Brady upright in the pocket against an elite pass rush. While everyone got beat, the right guard spot was epsecially bad.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188


    artist,

    re:"$9 million in cap space is wonderful, but it doesn't keep Brady upright in the pocket against an elite pass rush."

    great line (and great point)!
    i think its 12 mil now.

    i dont know who would be available at this point.
    just have to hope someone good gets cut from another team.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: RIGHT GUARD!!!

    In Response to Re: RIGHT GUARD!!!:
    In Response to Re: RIGHT GUARD!!! : Tuck is a DE and jamal williams is on denver. Ive been saying it since b4 we need another answer at rg i though mayb orenberger and thomas austin could try but i guess not we need a stop gap until cannon is redi next year what about matt light? also we need a guy with the fire of mankins. The guy who will protect his qb with fists  after the play against the cheapshotters oh suh and suggs
    Posted by Bspikes55



    "The guy who will protect his qb with fists  after the play against the cheapshotters oh suh and suggs"

    thank you! that is exactly what i said, i would have ripped off his helmet and punched him in the face for trying to end bradys career.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    Preseason is about working on weaknesses, not relying on strengths.   Intentionally or not O'Brien had Brady dropping back into 5 step drops, I would like to think it's because we were playing a great front and needed some work in that area.   I've been very vocal about offensive game planning since Weis left and especially against aggressive/talented 4 man fronts, we tend to think we can run the same game plan against the Lions/Giants that we do Bengal's, it's been our glaring weakness since the last ring.  Combine that with a rebuilding defense and you get an early exit out of the playoffs year after year. Leigh Bodden is not going to play in the slot this season, he plays in the slot during preseason because that is his weakness; smaller quicker receivers.  Right guard isn't really an "issue," Connolly and the rest were decent enough last season to win all but two regular season games, moreover if you wanted to play your 5 best, we could shift Light over to guard and not skip a beat, even more impressive will be when 360 pound Cannon sets up at right guard than we will boast maybe the most impressive O line in the entire NFL.  The team played poorly last game, let's not overreact.
    Posted by wozzy


    said similar to both of these points on a different thread, but unlike you, i say it is a reason for concern. (the latter, a rebuilding defense in a scheme that does not work against certain teams-untill game one and 2 of pre-season where we changed it up to something more effective).

    referring to:

    "I've been very vocal about offensive game planning since Weis left and especially against aggressive/talented 4 man fronts, we tend to think we can run the same game plan against the Lions/Giants that we do Bengal's, it's been our glaring weakness since the last ring.  Combine that with a rebuilding defense and you get an early exit out of the playoffs year after year."
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    In Response to Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!:
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81dbb13b/GameDay-Jets-vs-Patriots I might be mistaken: KOPPEN is the one not cutting it on big plays against the Jets in the playoffs He gives up Shaun Ellis' first sack and he whiffs on 3rd & 1 in the 3rd quarter Point being that the interior blocking isn't up to snuff, and yes, Mankins is overrated as a pass protector, but average is still better than substandard and I don't see Connolly winning battles in key moments, nor do I see Koppen winning battles in key moments.  I don't think this changes come regular season and playoffs. The Pats can still game plan and scheme and win most games as constituted, but these problems don't seem like the type that go away.  You can either beat the guy in front of you or you can't.  Koppen and Connolly just aren't beating the David Harrises, Bart Scotts, Ray Lewises, Haloti Ngatas, Casey Hamptons, Timmonses, Footes, Suhs, Rajis, et al of the league. Hopefully Cannon can contribute this year.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188


    "but these problems don't seem like the type that go away.  You can either beat the guy in front of you or you can't."

    exactly! at o line and on defense: pass rush and db pass defense
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    generally the C helps out the LG to protect the passers blind side. the RG is left on his own as the Qb can see the pressure.

    RG will be fine if Connolly is healthy, but so far no good when he is out.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: CONNOLLY AND OHRNBERGER WON'T CUT IT!!!

    I'm not buying that Connolly cannot be a decent option at RG.  The guy played pretty well filling in for Mankins last year.  He was clearly dinged up in the Detroit game, and Bruschi even talked a little bit about it in his blog yesterday. 

    If you want to make the argument that Ohrnberger looked to be an incapable backup, I'll buy that.  But Connolly has been solid at worst, when healthy of course.  Suh can make anybody look bad. 
     
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