Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

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    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Dont bother on this argument - remember the Liberals are always right! As a resident of the Communistwealth of Masshysteria, all I can say is the newspapers and local TV news are all liars in all these reports of shootings and gun violence. AS Mass has the strictest gunlaws in the US obviously there are NO guns in the hands of criminals, so all these crimes must be made up!

    [/QUOTE]


    Umm...you do understand that guns in the hands of citizens is a liberal right, do you not?

    Probably not.

    The country has become so dumbed down that extremely few understand what the terms "liberal" and "conservative" actually mean. So...a little education for those who get all their knowledge from either Keith Olbermann or Rush Limbaugh.

    Following the French revolution, the two parliamentary houses in France were the Liberal and the Conservative parties...which is where the names come from.

    From medieval times up until the late 17th (and primarily 18th) century, a political doctrine known as the "Divine Right of Kings" was prevalent throughout most of Europe and parts of Asia. The theory suggested that kings were not subject to worldly authority; rather, that royalty was handpicked and installed by God to rule absolutely. This meant that kings had control over every aspect of the lives of their subjects: whether or not they could own land; whom they could worship; taxes and tributes; what you could say; to whom you could say it, et cetera. Church hierarchies and royal peer systems rose to rank men, while feudal systems arose to appropriate property to lords, while providing working serfs a wage in return for military allegiance to the king. (I won't go on in detail as it is a lengthy treatise, but you can research it for yourself.)

    However, from the time of Martin Luther and colleagues, the Protestant reformation chipped away at ideas of kingly divinity and authority. The reformed argument said, among many things, that there were no special arrangements between God and kings/priests; that these hierarchical structures were born not of God but of powerful men to control and enslave the masses.

    The French and American revolutions were the primary catalysts toward ending the Divine Right of Kings. Many who fought and died in these wars believed in such things as, "All men are created equal," or that "they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." The doctrine of such men was called "liberalism," because its intent was to liberate the downtrodden from kingly or churchly authority. Thus, liberal rights are those that give power the individual as opposed to the state: e.g., the right to free speech; to assemble freely; to own property; to worship whom you choose (or to choose not to worship); to bear arms.

    Conversely, those who fought against individual liberty, and advocated for the preservation of monarchical power, were called "conservatives," for they wanted to conserve the status quo of centralized power amongst kings and churches. Thus, conservative rights are those that protect or empower centralized authority: the right to tax citizens; to draft citizens for war; to institute national religion; to create and enforce laws; to build jails and prisons; to restrict personal movement and political commentary.

    Now, in a free society, there is a natural tension that arises between our liberal and conservative rights. As a liberal (individual), I may not want to pay any taxes; however, as a conservative (citizen), I must understand that centralized taxing provides for roads, bridges, education, national defense, et cetera. As a liberal (individual), I feel I should be able to smoke cigarettes; however, as a conservative (citizen), I must not be allowed to smoke amongst others in a confined space. As a liberal (individual), I should be free to make as much money as I want; however, as a conservative (citizen), I should not be allowed to steal money from my neighbor's house. As a liberal (individual), I don't feel like risking my life in a war; however, as a conservative (citizen); I must understand that my liberal freedom comes at the cost of conservative sacrifice. As a liberal (individual), I should be allowed to listen to my radio; however, as a conservative (citizen), I should not be allowed to blast my rap music on my boom box in a quiet, candlelit restaurant where others are eating.

    So there is a balance that must be maintained. Liberal rights protect freedom of expression and personal choice, but rampant liberalism leads to anarchy and chaos.  Conservative rights protect societal law and order, but unchecked conservatism leads to enslavement and stifling of creativity.

    Now, apropos to this thread, consider the following. As a liberal (individual), I may want the right to bear arms; you may agree that we all should have it. But suppose I lived next door to you, and began building a nuclear weapon in my basement, or mounted an Abrams tank in my back yard. Does the 2nd Amendment cover my right to bear arms? Should it? I think most reasonable people would agree that the conservative (citizens) right must constrain my liberal right. That is, some arms ought be considered the right of the individual, whereas other arms threaten the right of his neighbors. The tension comes about in determining on which weapons we draw the line.

     

    Every one of us is both liberal and conservative. Of course, the more you shade to the liberal end of the spectrum, the less likely you are to let mass media define for you what these terms mean.

     

     

     
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    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I just looked out my window----the damn national guard is no where to be found. How am I gonna protect my family if the need arises? 

       Serious question, can someone answer this for me?

    [/QUOTE]


    .

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great. Good luck with that ... Paranoia is a bad irrational reason to expose other members of your household to the risks of guns around.

    If you live alone fine.

    [/QUOTE]

      No, just me and and my wife. She doesnt play with the gun. Now can you answer my question?

    [/QUOTE]

    You said if the need arises... What may arise in the meantime is an accident of unknown origin, so be careful and stay out of nasty arguments.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great. Good luck with that ... Paranoia is a bad irrational reason to expose other members of your household to the risks of guns around.

    If you live alone fine.

    [/QUOTE] 

      No, just me and and my wife. She doesnt play with the gun. Now can you answer my question?

    [/QUOTE]

    You said if the need arises... What may arise in the meantime is an accident of unknown origin, so be careful and stay out of nasty arguments.

     

    [/QUOTE]

       That is lame and you know it.  I cant speak for you, but I do not solve my arguments with violence. If you have that problem, I should not have my protection taken away from me just because you do not know how to control yourself.

      Now try again.

     
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    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    You keep comparing apples and oranges.

    Japan is 98.5% Japanese. Canada is similarly white. UK is 92% white.

    The racial disharmony in the US cannot be compared to these places. Add in the fact we have half as many illegal immigrants as the entire population of Canada and you are just missing the mark regarding what might work there vs what will work here.

    [/QUOTE]

    Now it comes out . . . it's all the blacks and hispanics . . . 

    If everyone was white there'd be no gun violence . . . 

    PS: Toronto is way more racially and ethnically diverse than Boston . . . and has a lower murder rate. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't even try to play the race card on me. I'm simply noting that if you compare the white population of the US to Canada's white population the homicide rates are very comparable.

    The facts are that as of 2005 the offending rates for blacks in the US were 6 times that for whites. From 1976 to 2005 that rate was up to 10 times greater. And the high rate of homicides among Blacks is some 94% upon fellow Blacks. I don't make up the numbers. I'm just commenting on them trying to show you reasons why your comparisons are invalid. But you're endeavoring to prove your detractors right apparently.

    And let's not try to kid the people about ethnic diversity in Toronto. The fact is 90% of its population is neither black nor hispanic but rather it's by far largest minority is comprised of asian and south asian. Meanwhile Boston has a nearly 40% black/hispanic minority.

    Comparing the two cities as proof is rather ludicrous pro. In 2005 Toronto had 80 homicides while Boston had 75 in the same year. It's only in 2011 that Toronto had an inexplicable drop in homicides.

     
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    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    "or mounted an Abrams tank in my back yard. "

    With a class 3 firearms license, (and a few million in cash), you can put the Abrams in your back yard! Isnt America great!!

     
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    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "or mounted an Abrams tank in my back yard. "

    With a class 3 firearms license, (and a few million in cash), you can put the Abrams in your back yard! Isnt America great!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Few people understand how vulnerable a tank is in urban warfare or dense cover. Without infantry support they are a coffin.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "or mounted an Abrams tank in my back yard. "

    With a class 3 firearms license, (and a few million in cash), you can put the Abrams in your back yard! Isnt America great!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Few people understand how vulnerable a tank is in urban warfare or dense cover. Without infantry support they are a coffin.

    [/QUOTE]


    But in my backyard, it's pretty damn fierce!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
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    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kellermann

     

    Study by an emergency room physician on effects of gun ownership. I've excerpted a couple of paragraphs...the full article contains some criticisms of his studies.

     

    Disclaimer: I actually know Dr. Kellerman, so take that into your judgment, and discount it if you wish.  I will say, however, that I have met few men with more integrity.

     

    Kellermann's published studies on gun ownership

    Kellermann states that as an emergency room doctor, he noted that the number of gunowners injured by their own gun or that of a family member seemed to greatly outnumber the number of intruders shot by the gun of a homeowner, and therefore he determined to study whether or not this was in fact true.

    1986

    In his first publication on the subject, in 1986, Kellermann studied all gunshot related deaths in Seattle over six years, and found that

    • 54% of firearm-related deaths occurred in the home where the gun was kept
    • 70.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved handguns
    • 0.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved an intruder shot while attempting entry
    • 1.8% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) were judged by police as self-defense
    • there were 1.3 times as many accidental firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
    • there were 4.6 times as many criminal firearm-related homicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
    • there were 37 times as many suicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings.

    He concluded that "the advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection must be questioned". Critics of this study noted that it was restricted to firearm-related deaths, effectively excluding incidents in which gun owners used their firearm to injure and frighten away an intruder. But the study also excluded incidents in which individuals were non-fatally injured in a firearm accident, criminal assault or suicide attempt, as well as instances in which a homeowner used a gun to threaten or terrorize another member of the household, as sometimes occurs in the context of domestic violence. A subsequent Kellermann-led study identified both fatal and nonfatal injuries occurring in homes in 3 cities – Seattle WA, Memphis TN, and Galveston TX. It noted that for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four accidental shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides. (J of Trauma, August 1998. pp: 263-267). He then developed the now much criticized 43:1 ratio that states every time a gun is used in self-defense, it is 43 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide, or accidental shooting.

    The ratio was numerically accurate but misleading because it compared harmful life-taking uses of guns not to life-saving defensive uses (the benefit corresponding to the harms of lives taken with firearms), but rather only to the tiny subset of defensive uses that involve killing a criminal assailant, i.e. justifiable homicides. Thus the ratio that seemed to imply a sort of cost-benefit ratio for gun ownership was actually nothing of the kind because it did not take account of any benefits that corresponded to its costs.

     

    1988

    In 1988, Kellermann published a study comparing robberies, burglaries, assaults, and homicides in Seattle, Washington and Vancouver, British Columbia, a city "similar to Seattle in many ways" that had "adopted a more restrictive approach to the regulation of handguns." The study found that

    • both cities had similar rates of burglary and robbery
    • in Seattle, the total rate of assaults with any weapon was modestly higher than that in Vancouver
    • rates of homicide by means other than guns were not substantially different in the two study communities
    • the rate of assaults involving firearms was seven times higher in Seattle than in Vancouver
    • the rate of being murdered by a handgun was 4.8 times higher in Seattle than in Vancouver.

    The study concluded that restricting access to handguns may reduce the rate of homicide in a community by reducing the lethality of assaults.

     

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "or mounted an Abrams tank in my back yard. "

    With a class 3 firearms license, (and a few million in cash), you can put the Abrams in your back yard! Isnt America great!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Few people understand how vulnerable a tank is in urban warfare or dense cover. Without infantry support they are a coffin.

    [/QUOTE]

    Then get yourself a combat helicopter with minigun, or a fully armed fighter plane...both are legal with a class 3 firearms license....If you dont want to deal with the pilots license, flame throwers are class 3 legal as well!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

    [/QUOTE]


    We all want that, and I don't condemn you in the least for feeling that way. But the awful truth is that your son or daughter is far more likely to shoot one another or their mother than you are to ever shoot an intruder.

    You can say, "But I'm careful how I store my gun," and if so, I applaud you. But just about every parent says that. It's only after the fact that they realize just one slip-up can lead to tragedy.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "or mounted an Abrams tank in my back yard. "

    With a class 3 firearms license, (and a few million in cash), you can put the Abrams in your back yard! Isnt America great!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Few people understand how vulnerable a tank is in urban warfare or dense cover. Without infantry support they are a coffin.

    [/QUOTE]

    Then get yourself a combat helicopter with minigun, or a fully armed fighter plane...both are legal with a class 3 firearms license....If you dont want to deal with the pilots license, flame throwers are class 3 legal as well!

    [/QUOTE]


    Just curious, cc, would you be comfortable with your neighbor actually having such firepower? You know, the crazy neighbor who keeps his Christmas lights up til July?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

    [/QUOTE]


    We all want that, and I don't condemn you in the least for feeling that way. But the awful truth is that your son or daughter is far more likely to shoot one another or their mother than you are to ever shoot an intruder.

    You can say, "But I'm careful how I store my gun," and if so, I applaud you. But just about every parent says that. It's only after the fact that they realize just one slip-up can lead to tragedy.

    [/QUOTE]

      No disrespect, but that is just not true.

    http://www.actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

    [/QUOTE]


    We all want that, and I don't condemn you in the least for feeling that way. But the awful truth is that your son or daughter is far more likely to shoot one another or their mother than you are to ever shoot an intruder.

    You can say, "But I'm careful how I store my gun," and if so, I applaud you. But just about every parent says that. It's only after the fact that they realize just one slip-up can lead to tragedy.

    [/QUOTE]

      No disrespect, but that is just not true.

    http://www.actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Sorry, I dont know how to post a direct link.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

    [/QUOTE]


    We all want that, and I don't condemn you in the least for feeling that way. But the awful truth is that your son or daughter is far more likely to shoot one another or their mother than you are to ever shoot an intruder.

    You can say, "But I'm careful how I store my gun," and if so, I applaud you. But just about every parent says that. It's only after the fact that they realize just one slip-up can lead to tragedy.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah. And your kid can drink drano from under the sink. Or stick something in the wall outlet. Or mix ammonia and bleach to clean. Or praise Tom Brady around Rusty. Long list of don'ts around the house.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

     Thousands of people every year use a gun in the act of self protection. The number of innocent children killed, is WAY lower.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

    [/QUOTE]


    We all want that, and I don't condemn you in the least for feeling that way. But the awful truth is that your son or daughter is far more likely to shoot one another or their mother than you are to ever shoot an intruder.

    You can say, "But I'm careful how I store my gun," and if so, I applaud you. But just about every parent says that. It's only after the fact that they realize just one slip-up can lead to tragedy.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah. And your kid can drink drano from under the sink. Or stick something in the wall outlet. Or mix ammonia and bleach to clean. Or praise Tom Brady around Rusty. Long list of don'ts around the house.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     Well said! And the gun deaths are much lower than the others that you mentioned.  Its all about responsibility.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to ccsjl's comment:
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    "or mounted an Abrams tank in my back yard. "

    With a class 3 firearms license, (and a few million in cash), you can put the Abrams in your back yard! Isnt America great!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Few people understand how vulnerable a tank is in urban warfare or dense cover. Without infantry support they are a coffin.

    [/QUOTE]

    Then get yourself a combat helicopter with minigun, or a fully armed fighter plane...both are legal with a class 3 firearms license....If you dont want to deal with the pilots license, flame throwers are class 3 legal as well!

    [/QUOTE]


    Just curious, cc, would you be comfortable with your neighbor actually having such firepower? You know, the crazy neighbor who keeps his Christmas lights up til July?

    [/QUOTE]

    No problem at all! Bill Koch the Americas Cup winning sailor has a summer home a few miles away in Oyster Harbors. I go by boat past his property all the time, literally passing in front of some of his "toys" - 3 cannon that he fires on the 4th of July, and a Sherman tank in his driveway. He has 2 other Shermans at a property in Colorado that he likes to practice live firing with.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
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    In response to jerh5's comment:
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    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
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    In response to jerh5's comment:
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    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
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    In response to TexasPat's comment:
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    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
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    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

    [/QUOTE]


    We all want that, and I don't condemn you in the least for feeling that way. But the awful truth is that your son or daughter is far more likely to shoot one another or their mother than you are to ever shoot an intruder.

    You can say, "But I'm careful how I store my gun," and if so, I applaud you. But just about every parent says that. It's only after the fact that they realize just one slip-up can lead to tragedy.

    [/QUOTE]

      No disrespect, but that is just not true.

    http://www.actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

    [/QUOTE]


    None taken.

    But, be honest...does that site look even the slightest bit impartial to you?

    I mean, the bottom of the page screams, "GET A GUN!" in huge red font.

    If you cite an impartial, academic study, I'll be happy to read. But this guy is a Tea Party salesman.

     

    Again, please understand, I am not against gun ownership. I just feel that guns do give people a false sense of security. I don't have the need or desire to break into anyone's house, but if I did, the homeowner wouldn't stand a chance, no matter what weapon he owned. Not saying I'm the best gunman that ever lived (far from it), but I am better than 99% of civilians, and I would have scouted the house and the owners well before breaking in. And I likely break-in with a partner with equal or better skill than mine.

    Now, every burglar is not so prepared as I would be; I realize that. But a half-asleep owner has no way of knowing whether I'm a drug addict or a former Green Beret.

    Military men are taught not to engage without intelligence about the enemy's weapons and whereabouts. Civilians think their gun makes such intelligence meaningless.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jerh5's comment:
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    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
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    In response to jerh5's comment:
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    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
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    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...

    And that is noble. But very few people can pull this off. Most end up hurting their families.

    then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

    Problem is, you don't know who he is. But he may know everything about you.

    With so many servicemen coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan without future prospects, both crime and suicide amongst vets is rising dramatically. If a guy who survived Iraq breaks into your house, chances are, you ain't taking him out, no matter how well intended you are.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
     I can guarantee you my chances would be a lot better with a gun, than without.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Words spoken by many a fallen hero.

     

    [/QUOTE]Correct. But also by many more that saved their lives and that of their familys. I would rather have control of my fate.

    [/QUOTE]


    We all want that, and I don't condemn you in the least for feeling that way. But the awful truth is that your son or daughter is far more likely to shoot one another or their mother than you are to ever shoot an intruder.

    You can say, "But I'm careful how I store my gun," and if so, I applaud you. But just about every parent says that. It's only after the fact that they realize just one slip-up can lead to tragedy.

    [/QUOTE]

      No disrespect, but that is just not true.

    http://www.actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

    [/QUOTE]


    None taken.

    But, be honest...does that site look even the slightest bit impartial to you?

    I mean, the bottom of the page screams, "GET A GUN!" in huge red font.

    If you cite an impartial, academic study, I'll be happy to read. But this guy is a Tea Party salesman.

     

    Again, please understand, I am not against gun ownership. I just feel that guns do give people a false sense of security. I don't have the need or desire to break into anyone's house, but if I did, the homeowner wouldn't stand a chance, no matter what weapon he owned. Not saying I'm the best gunman that ever lived (far from it), but I am better than 99% of civilians, and I would have scouted the house and the owners well before breaking in. And I likely break-in with a partner with equal or better skill than mine.

    Now, every burglar is not so prepared as I would be; I realize that. But a half-asleep owner has no way of knowing whether I'm a drug addict or a former Green Beret.

    Military men are taught not to engage without intelligence about the enemy's weapons and whereabouts. Civilians think their gun makes such intelligence meaningless.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree.  I'm not against gun ownership.  I'm against idiots that want to own guns and there are alot out there.

     

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