Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2011/08/breakdown_lions.html
    "Stafford’s average release time was 2.07 seconds. Almost everything was a three-step drop, and throw on first read. Seven of his passes got off in under 2 seconds. So even if the Patriots’ blitzed, it probably wouldn’t have worked. But it couldn’t have been any worse. The Patriots got a sack (Kyle Arrington) and hit (Jerod Mayo) on two of their three blitzes against Stafford. The other sack, by Niko Koutouvides on Drew Stanton, also came on a blitz.

    The only time Stanton held the ball over 3 seconds, he was sacked."

     

    Sad.  Arrington, Chung, Sanders, Merriweather, Mayo, and McCourty have some work to do in their zone continuitites.  It takes most coworkers a few weeks to get acclimated to working together.  With zone defenses, guys need to know what the people around them are going to do in each situation because bad synergy results in the types of windows that resulted in the Sheffler touchdown and the Brown touchdown, among others.

    On the plus side, it seems the Pats' pass rush can get there in under 4 seconds.  Now the coverage has to hold up their end of the bargain.
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    That game was the worst I've ever seen McCourty. He was getting beat deep all day and was lucky that Burleson dropped the TD pass on their first drive
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    In Response to Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs:
    [QUOTE]That game was the worst I've ever seen McCourty. He was getting beat deep all day and was lucky that Burleson dropped the TD pass on their first drive
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33[/QUOTE]

    At least he was in position.  A lot of times it seems guys didn't know when to drop off of coverage in their zones and the guy behind/next-to them didn't know when to pick up the crossing/seam pattern once the first guy dropped off, giving Stafford the windows to complete his 3-step timing patterns

    The safeties really concern me. While Arrington blew it on Scheffler on that TD, a safety over the top should have been there to contest.
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    Overreact?  I'm not saying the season's over, but these problems are systemic.  You're just too blindly loyal to accept ANY criticism of the Patriots

    every competent QB in the league can make those same throws unless they tighten up those zones, which requires two safeties to step up and justify playing more than three series in a row

    In this case, you're being a homer
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    Lions have a 1st overall at Quarterback, a high first at WR in Calvin Johnson, another 1st at TE with Pettigrew, and have added some very nice complimentary pieces around them. Lions arnt the scrubs they have been for the last decade. So a pretty decent offense (at least on paper/ what i saw saturday night) had some relative success against a vanilla D missing multiple starters, in the preseason.
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    I smell panic in several different threads since Saturday night, and this is just another one. Yes, we got crushed in all 3 phases of the game by a young hungry Detroit team. Yes we looked almost dis-interested and out of place.

    Is that reason to worry? For many it sure seems to be. Myself...I think I will wait until it counts to make any judgements on this team. Remember the Browns game last year?...yup..we got crushed by a team that we should have wiped the floor with. Was that an indication of our team?...not even close. One has to remember that and not panic over a pre-season game.
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    I think the "Doom and Gloomers" like TexasPat and Artist-yada-yada are kind of funny. They call people that are fans of the Pats "Homers". Too bad they don't have any clue that a real FAN of the team is by definition a "Homer". Oh they'll tell you they are fans but the don't believe you should be unrealistic. Well acording to Webster that means they just aren't fans. They are more like followers of the team than fans of the team.

    One other observation, if the Pats were playing zone coverages all night, which I believe they were, then there is no way they could have stopped the Lions offense. That three step drop, less than 3 seconds and the ball is out is great at defeating the zone before it has a chance to set up. They needed 3 cover corners and they only had one.
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    In Response to Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs:
    [QUOTE]I think the "Doom and Gloomers" like TexasPat and Artist-yada-yada are kind of funny. They call people that are fans of the Pats "Homers". Too bad they don't have any clue that a real FAN of the team is by definition a "Homer". Oh they'll tell you they are fans but the don't believe you should be unrealistic. Well acording to Webster that means they just aren't fans. They are more like followers of the team than fans of the team. One other observation, if the Pats were playing zone coverages all night, which I believe they were, then there is no way they could have stopped the Lions offense. That three step drop, less than 3 seconds and the ball is out is great at defeating the zone before it has a chance to set up. They needed 3 cover corners and they only had one.
    Posted by rtuinila[/QUOTE]

    Sorry for raising legitimate questions.  How dare I?

    Zone would then put the onus on safeties in deep zone and linebackers in hook/curl.  Tell me again how the weakness at safety can't be continually exploited once the regular season starts?  Merriweather isn't getting more consistent four years into his career.  And Sergio Brown has never played.

    Do you think Ihedigbo is the answer?  Did you SEE the routes that #43 took in whiffing on ball carriers repeatedly?

    I didn't say the Pats were heading to the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.  I merely pointed out that these are the kinds of weaknesses that talented and well coached teams can (and have for the past two years) exploit(ed).

    Sorry to crash your duck boat parade with real questions.
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    In Response to Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs:
    [QUOTE]How many snaps did Dan Connolly play and why do you think calling pass plays over and over and over is a good thing from O'Brien? It's not systemic at all. The game was sold out in Detroit, their first since 2000 and it was on national tv. There is absolutely no doub they came in fired up and played balls to the wall. No doubt. They basically came  out and admitted it.  Yup. And?  They played better and beat NE cleanly in every facet. Ok. This is "systemic"?  lol Thet team went 14-2 last year and it's very clear that if they don't even try to run it, the passing over and over is a clear way for a team to sell out on a pass rush. Why has Indy kept games close in recent years?  Because they are a pass rushing based defense and NE hasn't had a great run game in recent years. Run the ball. You call me a homer, yet I have articulated this pass first thing for over a year. I am on record here of bashing O'Brien, predicting he would pass first against Pitt last year where it would work, and then praising O'Brien for finally improving, until the Jets game. I also thought the Moss trade would help/force them run more, as did others, and it worked. The offense looked BETTER when Moss wa dealt, which is tied to the balance of the offense. But, if you show no run, teams are going to smell blood.  I am not going to freak out when I know that they wouldn't be just passing it almost exclusively in a regular season game. Line it up and hammer with with Ridley and mix in your BJGE/Woodhead duo. Use the TEs to block, etc. We saw none of that in this game.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    No panic here, but to say the way the Pats performed in that game is not systemic, is not completely true. It eerily reminded me of the Jets playoff game from last year, or better yet, the Giants game from the SB. What is systemic is the way our OL plays against top tier DL's, and the fact that when TB is pressured or not allowed to go through his reads, he has troubles. We've seen this so many times lately in big games and small games, then i woudl say to a degree it is systemic. "THe performance of our OL in pass situations against superior DL's, playcalling, lack of commitment to the run..." This is what I consider systemic.

    I think this all starts with suring up the interior of our OL. Next O'Brien needs to come up with an effective gameplan that commits to the run, and uses a short field, our speed/quickness to counteract fast DL's/front 7. When D's sell out, we need to make them pay.
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    In Response to Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs : No panic here, but to say the way the Pats performed in that game is not systemic, is not completely true. It eerily reminded me of the Jets playoff game from last year, or better yet, the Giants game from the SB. What is systemic is the way our OL plays against top tier DL's, and the fact that when TB is pressured or not allowed to go through his reads, he has troubles. We've seen this so many times lately in big games and small games, then i woudl say to a degree it is systemic. "THe performance of our OL in pass situations against superior DL's, playcalling, lack of commitment to the run..." This is what I consider systemic. I think this all starts with suring up the interior of our OL. Next O'Brien needs to come up with an effective gameplan that commits to the run, and uses a short field, our speed/quickness to counteract fast DL's/front 7. When D's sell out, we need to make them pay.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Quick/screen/3step game planning might help if the defense doesn't disguise successfully, and I think the Pats can win 12 games even if teams bring their best every week. 

    But the PLAYOFF teams like the Ravens (Haloti Ngata, Trevor Price, Ray Lewis, James Johnson?), the Steelers (Casey Hampton, Timmons, Farrior/Foote?), the Jets (Pouha, David Harris, Bart Scott), et al, are mostly staffed such that they can capitalize on the weakness of the Pats' interior blocking, particularly Koppen and Connolly.

    Furthermore, SAFETY HAS BEEN A SERIOUS ISSUE SINCE RODNEY HARRISON RETIRED.  This isn't news.  Merriweather should NOT be the best safety on a Super Bowl contender.  Chung could be, someday, but obviously not yet because he's getting his minutes yanked around this preseason, which means he didn't show enough in practice to justify giving him the full time job.  For all his experience, James Sanders SHOULD NOT be the best safety on a Super Bowl contender.  And Sergio Brown is an Earthwind Moreland that you hide if you have other elite defenders to mask him (like Willie McGinnest, Ted Washington, Mike Vrabel, Tedy Bruschi, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Rodney Harrison)

    Safety is a real issue, and it's not going away.  In fact, more NFL teams are equipped to capitalize on the weakness of the Patriots' zone coverages with receivers, tight ends, and decent NFL QBs than there are teams that can capitalize on Koppen/Connolly/Ohrnberger
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    Judging by the name "mcCheaters" the Patriots could go undefeated for the year and win the SB, and this guy would say "well if you look back at the preseason game against Detroit, New England looked terrible".
    These are the same people who said "Well belicheat won those SB's because he was cheating".  Yes, of course, thats why the season they got in trouble for "cheating" and were under the microscope by the league the whole year, put together the best regular season ever by any franchise in the NFL, and were within a lucky catch away from winning it all.
    Face it, people hate the Patriots because they win more than any other team, and that gets people's panties bunched.
    mcCheater.....care to make a friendly wager that the Patriots finish with a better record than whatever team you root for?
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    Yes I think that Vereen can be a big contributor and I think Ridley means the end of the Sammy Morris era, barring something unforeseen

    But if Koppen and Connolly get beat mano-y-mano, then all the great playcalling the world won't help

    And if safeties can't play well in simple zones, how will they fare in complex schemes?
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    In Response to Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs:
    [QUOTE]"simple zones"? Zone is all about staying in a lane, being responsible and reacting correctly. It's more about continuity than it is it being simple or hard. In fact, if your team doesn't run a zone, they won't look good when they use it in a game.  Most teams play mostly man for that reason. I'd say if this team runs the under 4-3 mode and plays zone, they'll be just fine, because they didn't look too good in man coverage ther other night with 2 step drops and balls in the air. I hope BB runs zone for 4 quarters on Thursday to get the starters their reps.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    this would require two safeties to win jobs and play next to each other for longer than three series in a row so they know when the guys around them are going to pass off the receiver to them without letting Scheffler and Brown score

    you said it yourself: they didn't pull out the kitchen sink against the Lions, and it's a good thing they didn't because I don't think that secondary is ready to run it if they called it.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    Detroit played like a young hungry team trying to prove they are for real.  Pats played like a veteran team worried about the hurricane at home, could not match the intensity.  No big deal, concern would be a good front 4 that can rush passer like the Giants 07 still causes problems and secondary looked lost. 
     
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    Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs

    In Response to Re: Coverage couldn't hold for THREE seconds for pressure to get to Lions' QBs:
    [QUOTE]Detroit played like a young hungry team trying to prove they are for real.  Pats played like a veteran team worried about the hurricane at home, could not match the intensity.  No big deal, concern would be a good front 4 that can rush passer like the Giants 07 still causes problems and secondary looked lost. 
    Posted by BSII[/QUOTE]

    Philadelphia has Justin Babin and Cullen Jenkins

    Baltimore has Haloti Ngata, Trevor Price, and Terrell Suggs

    Pittsburgh has Casey Hampton, Lawrence Timmons, James Harrison, Lamarr Woodley, and a healthy Aaron Smith

    San Diego, despite Norv Turner, has Shaun Phillips, Luis Castillo, and Takeo Spikes

    Atlanta has John Abraham and Ray Edwards

    Green Bay has Clay Matthews, B.J. Raji, and enough depth at cornerback, safety, and linebacker to match up with all the Patriots' options

    Personnel-wise, the Jets' pass rush wouldn't worry me, but apparently Rex Ryan can outscheme the Patriots (which he did twice last year, whether people want to accept it or not)

    Also featured on the Patriots' schedule this year: Kyle Williams (Buffalo) and Jay Ratliff (Dallas), et al
     

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