Cunningham a bonehead

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    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    In response to murghkhor's comment:
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    I guess this explains his jump in performance. 

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    Yes, when I've taken Adderall I've really noticed a difference in my athletic prowess. LMAO

    It's an upper, dude. It's all it is.  Some feel they need that and it's nothing more than a placebo effect. There is no proof that any stimulant gives any athlete an advantage. This is all about defending againt lawsuits.

    WHy is that the NFL considers uppers like cocaine, crack or cyrstal meth "substances" that aren't tied to the PED list?

    Do I have to explain why? Really?

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    Neal Page, I don't think you are understanding what most of us are saying.

    We're not trying to draw the line whether we actually think Adderall is a PED or not.

    What we're saying is:

    The league doesn't release what substance the player actually used. We are saying that he is LYING about using Adderall. Most of us believe that he actually used anabolic steroids because he came into training camp much bigger and stronger. But because the league won't actually tell us what he used, he can claim that he never touched steroids and that the PED he got banned for was adderall.

     

    The stigma to using steroids is much worse than using Adderall. 

    In short. Cunningham never touched Adderall. He did steroids. He claims his PEDs was just adderall so that people don't think he's a roider. NFL can't call him out for lying because it's against policy

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tydog. Show Tydog's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    In response to Tydog's comment:
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    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    In response to Tydog's comment:
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    He probably wouldnt have made it on the roster out of training camp if he wasnt on PEDs. 

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    Do you think HGH is a "PED"?

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    Not really if taken by itself. More of a recovery thing for injured or older players. Not nearly as powerfull as Testosterone or other 'roids.

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    Right. Certainly not as intense as anabolic roids, but it's tied to building muscle mass faster.  Adderall has nothing to do with building muscle mass.

    It's like pretending ectascy as an amphetamine is somehow an advantage. No way on earth that would be an advantage for an athlete.

    There is no scientific proof that any upper gives any human advantage in physical competition.

    So, right  now the NFL tests for Aderrall and not HGH. Explain how that makes sense.

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    Im pro PEDs so im not really the one to ask. 

    Maybe adderall can pump you up if you happen to be tired or mentally drained before a game? Its hard to believe that stimulants offer no benifit in athletic competition. 

    From what I have read HGH testing is really expensive and the gains made by taking it are very minimal if just taken by itself. The athlete has to be almost tested immediatly after injecting it to get a positive test also. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    We're not saying it's a masking agent.

    It's a verbal excuse. He could have said he used unicorn blood as a PED and the league wouldn't call him out on lying.

    The league knows what these players are actually using. The fans do not. If Player X get caught using anabolic steroids by the league, the only thing we know is that Player X got caught using PEDs, which is a vague term. Player X will tell us it was just adderall (even if Player X has never even touched adderall) and fans wouldn't know that he was lying because the league can't specify the actual drug.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    I do agree that there is a vague line between what is legal and illegal.

    What's that treatment Kobe and Arod go for in Germany? All I know is that it is something that makes you heal faster. What's the difference between that and HGH? You can argue that those are just advances in medicine. That Deer antler stuff too.

     

    With regards to the Adderall thing again.

    I know someone who trains for marathons and shorter running distances. Caffeine pills definitely improve on his time and he is able to sustain a certain amount of energy over a longer period of time. Whether it should be legal or illegal is a different argument. But I do believe there are some benefits to using stimulants.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
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    We're not saying it's a masking agent.

    It's a verbal excuse. He could have said he used unicorn blood as a PED and the league wouldn't call him out on lying.

    The league knows what these players are actually using. The fans do not. If Player X get caught using anabolic steroids by the league, the only thing we know is that Player X got caught using PEDs, which is a vague term. Player X will tell us it was just adderall (even if Player X has never even touched adderall) and fans wouldn't know that he was lying because the league can't specify the actual drug.

    [/QUOTE]


    Again, that doesn't make any sense because Adderall is on the list, so what does it matter what it actually is. They put it on the list and an upper shouldn't be on the list.

    That's the point.

    Why are cocaine, meth, crack, etc, not listed as "PEDs" then?  Either answer that or state how Adderall gives someone a distinct advantage as an athlete.

    So, you're premise is that the public will be more forgiving if they hear the trade name Adderall?  Why?  95% of the NFL public have no idea what Adderall is.

    Again, this particular drug is an underground epidemic and its used in a big way by college students because it's very cheap and it keeps them awake to be able to study more, etc.

    The NFL has deemed it as an advantage taking it, and I simply disagree.  They don't have cocaine as a drug that falls into the PED category.  It's considered an illegal street drug, but not a PED. But, both are uppers (amphetamine family).

    WHy can the league specify a drug like cocain or crack? Matt Jones was arrested with an 8 ball in his lap 2 years ago and we knew all about it.

    The bottom line is, this is a tradename that needs to have a prescription and the mfgers of this (Teva) don't want the NFL having players running around promoting the use of non-scripted Adderall.

    That's what this is about.

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    Read the article that I posted. Right now, there is a bigger negative stigma to using steroids than Adderall. If you're a GM looking to sign a player, would you rather take the risk of signing a guy coming off of roids or adderall?

    I think we can all agree that the benefits of using Roids is much greater than using Adderall.  By saying you used adderall instead of steroids, you're pretty much saying that drugs didn't help you as much as it is perceived.

    I disagree with your random number that 95% of the NFL public doesn't know what Adderall is. That being said, most fans do know what steroids is and how damaging that can be to a players reputation and legacy.

    Would Barry Bonds' home run record be as tarnished if we were under the impression that he was using Adderall instead of anabolic steroids?

     

    I'm not trying to argue whether Adderall should be legal or not. In fact, I don't think adderall should be on the PED list.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    And I also don't have any sympathy for players who got caught.

    From what I know, they get a list of what is banned.

    And if they're unsure, they're surrounded by a bunch of professionals who probably do know what is legal and what isn't.

    I'm frustrated with Cunningham because:

    1. I think it's pretty obvious he used steroids. He was a fringe player who selfishly took steroids to remain on the team.

    2. He hurts the Pats by being unavailable for the next 4 games.

    3. He probably took the roster spot of a more deserving player who didn't use PED's

     
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    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    Adderal gives energy to guys who don't need the medication. It helps intensify the workout. I've used it before and that's how reacted to it. It's not a steroid or growth hormone but the boost it provides helps the person make better gains and faster.  It's risky though, it can be dangerous . It has some similarities to ephedra in giving an energy boost.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    seems like a lot of misinformation regarding adderall. it is prescribed for ADD. Attention Defecit Disorder. IMO it would help Cunningham the most in learning the playbook, not on the field.

    adderall is a controlled substance and ALL insurance companies only precribe in 30 day increments. usually adderall is prescribed in minor doses detirmined by your weight

    the issue with adderall is the side effects...elevated blood pressure, trouble sleeping, weight loss. I am not aware of a single physical benefit of adderall.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We're not saying it's a masking agent.

    It's a verbal excuse. He could have said he used unicorn blood as a PED and the league wouldn't call him out on lying.

    The league knows what these players are actually using. The fans do not. If Player X get caught using anabolic steroids by the league, the only thing we know is that Player X got caught using PEDs, which is a vague term. Player X will tell us it was just adderall (even if Player X has never even touched adderall) and fans wouldn't know that he was lying because the league can't specify the actual drug.

    [/QUOTE]


    Again, that doesn't make any sense because Adderall is on the list, so what does it matter what it actually is. They put it on the list and an upper shouldn't be on the list.

    That's the point.

    Why are cocaine, meth, crack, etc, not listed as "PEDs" then?  Either answer that or state how Adderall gives someone a distinct advantage as an athlete.

    So, you're premise is that the public will be more forgiving if they hear the trade name Adderall?  Why?  95% of the NFL public have no idea what Adderall is.

    Again, this particular drug is an underground epidemic and its used in a big way by college students because it's very cheap and it keeps them awake to be able to study more, etc.

    The NFL has deemed it as an advantage taking it, and I simply disagree.  They don't have cocaine as a drug that falls into the PED category.  It's considered an illegal street drug, but not a PED. But, both are uppers (amphetamine family).

    WHy can the league specify a drug like cocain or crack? Matt Jones was arrested with an 8 ball in his lap 2 years ago and we knew all about it.

    The bottom line is, this is a tradename that needs to have a prescription and the mfgers of this (Teva) don't want the NFL having players running around promoting the use of non-scripted Adderall.

    That's what this is about.

    [/QUOTE]

    Read the article that I posted. Right now, there is a bigger negative stigma to using steroids than Adderall. If you're a GM looking to sign a player, would you rather take the risk of signing a guy coming off of roids or adderall?

    I think we can all agree that the benefits of using Roids is much greater than using Adderall.  By saying you used adderall instead of steroids, you're pretty much saying that drugs didn't help you as much as it is perceived.

    I disagree with your random number that 95% of the NFL public doesn't know what Adderall is. That being said, most fans do know what steroids is and how damaging that can be to a players reputation and legacy.

    Would Barry Bonds' home run record be as tarnished if we were under the impression that he was using Adderall instead of anabolic steroids?

     

    I'm not trying to argue whether Adderall should be legal or not. In fact, I don't think adderall should be on the PED list.

     

     

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    I chose 95% for effect. The point is, if you walked down the street right now and asked 10 NFL fans if they knew what it was, 7 of them wouldn't be able to tell you the correct answer.

    In fact, they'd probably guess and say it was a steroid.

    I agree that it's not worth taking a banned substance. My issues is more with the NFL and its hypocrisy.  The suspensions are also too severe.  If a player chose to take an upper for whatever the reason, then it's really only fine-worthy. Maybe, second offense, it becomes more severe, but I find this faux tough guy stance on an upper like that with the NFL unable to test for HGH completely disingenuous.

    The NFL is on record they want HGH testing but didn't include it in the last CBA? I find that to be smelly.   They got everything else, but that?  Smells like a Selig sceanario to me where he claims he wanted roids out in 1995 with testing, but then let the union tell him what to do.

    Aderrall is the least of the NFL's worries and it's absolutely not a masking agent, which is the claim that some try to use.

    Personally, I think the fans should know what it is and if the player came up positive once or multiple times.

    This whole disclosure crap for illegal drugs without prescriptions is ridiculous. This is why I detest unions.  Newsflash: The fans pay your salaries.  The players and the union really shouldn't be above the law.

     

     

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    There is no doubt that Goodell is a puppet and the league is full of hypocrisy. Every decision is based off how $$. 

     

    But in regards to your statement about suspensions being too severe, I have a different take. The purpose of these suspensions is to punish players for gaining an "unfair" advantage and to deter players from using it.

     

    Imagine if this were Cunningham's contract year. In his case, without PED's he's probably not in the league today. Because of PED's, he got a spot this season and PED's could've landed him another contract.

    Just for the sake of competitive balance, these 4 game suspensions aren't really enough to deter PED use when you consider the potential financial gain.

    I don't know what a viable punishment is. But if I'm a guy like Bolden, I wouldn't think twice. No PED's=Potentially no NFL contract. PED's=at least 1 contract

     
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    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to ronk1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    seems like a lot of misinformation regarding adderall. it is prescribed for ADD. Attention Defecit Disorder. IMO it would help Cunningham the most in learning the playbook, not on the field.

    adderall is a controlled substance and ALL insurance companies only precribe in 30 day increments. usually adderall is prescribed in minor doses detirmined by your weight

    the issue with adderall is the side effects...elevated blood pressure, trouble sleeping, weight loss. I am not aware of a single physical benefit of adderall.

    [/QUOTE]

    Your right ronk1, that's what it's for and it does help those with ADD concentrate. For those who don't have ADD it can give a big boost of energy. Not to everyone but to a lot. It definitely did that for me, so much that it was difficult to sleep if taken too late. I wouldn't use it again though, like you said it elevates blood pressure and has a couple of other dangerous side effects. I know several guys who still do use it for training boost.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    Yeah, slight buzz. Not worth it for an NFL player to bother with. It seems like they are cracking down on it. Anyone who is still taking it is being stupid. 

     
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    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    I think the best cheat drug would be for ADD athletes taking prescription ritalin ( or whatever is used now). You take this after every game ( Sunday mostly) so you can focus during the week on films, practice, and game plans. Stop on Thursday /Friday and go freaking crazy on game day!

    I really think Jo Pa asked his linebacker recruit's parents if their kid is taking ritalin.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, slight buzz. Not worth it for an NFL player to bother with. It seems like they are cracking down on it. Anyone who is still taking it is being stupid. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Read this:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/31/is-adderall-becoming-the-new-excuse-for-steroids-users/

     

    I don't think a fair number of players who claim they got busted using Adderall were actually using Adderall. At least not Cunningham, you don't get super jacked after one season using Adderall. This guy definitely used steroids.

    I think Cunningham comes off as a cheater and a liar. He should've just told us what he actually used and moved on.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sporter81's comment:
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    Yeah, slight buzz. Not worth it for an NFL player to bother with. It seems like they are cracking down on it. Anyone who is still taking it is being stupid. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I am not sure how long it takes to clear the system either. Not sure on that one, but that could be why they think they need it and can get away with it.  Regardless, it's running rampant throughout the league at this point.

    I am still fascinated how it's rampant on college campuses, the NCAA tests for it and somehow, mangically, no one in the NCAA comes up positive for it. Isn't that something. lmao

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    Yeah I can't believe that NCAA players aren't testing positive for it . I'd guess there are a good percentage of college kids using it, it's everywhere there. Instant release stays in the system about 35 hours and extended release for about 60. The rule of thumb is that after 72 hours they should be clean. It shows that some of these guys don't get it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Cunningham a bonehead

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, slight buzz. Not worth it for an NFL player to bother with. It seems like they are cracking down on it. Anyone who is still taking it is being stupid. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Read this:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/31/is-adderall-becoming-the-new-excuse-for-steroids-users/

     

    I don't think a fair number of players who claim they got busted using Adderall were actually using Adderall. At least not Cunningham, you don't get super jacked after one season using Adderall. This guy definitely used steroids.

    I think Cunningham comes off as a cheater and a liar. He should've just told us what he actually used and moved on.

    [/QUOTE]


    Again, I disagree.  I don't think it's that simple. Adderall is not a masking agent. It's an amphetamine. So, unless you're personally offended by amphetamine use or think it creates an advantage, his weight gain is no different than Chandler Jones's. Good, old fashioned bulking up, likely with HGH assistance, which the NFL doesn't currently test for. Adding 20 lbs because BB wants to use him more as a DT in a 4-3 isn't "super jacked" whatsoever.

    The best part of the useless article, which is an opinion piece from some dork at PFT (the infamous sensationalist Florio), is this comment which really tells us what this is about:

     

    voiceofreason says:Jul 31, 2012 7:28 PM

    Sounds like a loophole to be fixed in the next CBA…unless the government sticks their noses in first. (with their agendas($$))

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    I think we're not hitting on the same page. Either I'm not getting you or you're not getting me. I am not offended by Adderall use. Here's a copy and paste from someone else's comment

    beatrixkiddo27 says:Jul 31, 2012 11:10 PM

    Stuter00 –

    Are you serious dude/dudette? Did you even bother to read the article
    before trying to impress us folk with your extensive knowledge of drug classes and differences between drugs? I’m guessing you didn’t bother with the body of the article and simply read the title and “byline” and decided you needed to show someone up. Well, it kind of backfired on you.

    Florio says nothing about and insinuates nothing with respect to athletes trying to use amps (in this case adderall) in an attempt to mask their use of steroids.

    The premise of Florio’s article is that with the rules governing what the league can and can’t say regarding any failed drug test, that athletes can take to the media and make up any story they want to explain their failed test and subsequent suspension.

    So, you see? He’s not saying that the league is suspending athletes who test positive on a drug test for adderall (or other amps) because the league claims such drugs (amps) serve to mask steroid use. He is also NOT saying that the league is suspending players who test positive for amps because amps trigger a positive steroid result.

    He is saying, that because recent athletes who have been found to have failed a drug test are claiming that they failed for adderall, that this pattern could indicate a new way for athletes to avoid the stigma involved in publicly failing a drug test. And these athletes can do this because the NFL can NOT refute anything these athletes say regarding for which substances they failed the test for. Because of the newly-negotiated CBA. (score one for De Smith)

     

     
     

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