Is it just me or has Cunningham completely flown under the radar. I have found quite a few articles on position battles at ILB regarding Spikes, WR regarding Price, CB regarding McCourty and everywhere you look there is a TE preview with Gronk and Hernandez.

The biggest question we have on defense is at OLB where TBC and Burgess seem to be the potential starters neither of whom, anybody feels really comfortable playing all 3 downs. Shouldn't Cunningham have a little more buzz around him? Is the reason we are not talking about this guy because we do not want to jinx it or something? His development is probably more crucial than any other young player on the team. I mean we have very serviceable starters at ILB in Mayo and Guyton, at CB with Bodden and the ascending Butler, at WR with Moss Welker/Edelman and Holt, at Safety with Merriweather and Sanders/McGowan, yet everyone seems to be talking about Spikes and Mackenzie, McCourty, Tate and Price and of course Chung at Safety. There are big questions at both OLB, where our two "starters" seem to be more DEs in a 43 than 34 OLBs.

That is my rant. Just wanted to remind everyone on here we did draft Jermaine Cunningham. He is vying for one of the two very open starter spots at OLB. Was hoping someone who knows a little bit more about him could get the discussion going here...

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/jermaine-cunningham-scouting-report/

I'll even get the ball rolling with a link....

I think the reason is simple. 

An OLB in a 3-4 as a rookie is not expected have a great impact.  I can't think of one rookie in a 3-4, other than what's his face in GB last year, who had some kind of an impact as a rookie.

I am not saying Cunningham will not, but I think that is why there is tempered exictement/expectations.

I think we are all hoping, but at the same time assuming it will take him a year or so to really shine.  I think he will be a 3 down OLB in the future and solid on both run and passing downs.  I dont at this time see him as a pass rush monster, but he will be very very good in all aspects of the game.   

He has flown a bit under the radar.  I don't know why, I happen to agree with those that say the expectations for a rookie OLB are low.  Although I think he has one of the best chances for success this year from the rookies.  He's been healthy and he is not facing stiff competition for a starting job. 

One of the things that creates busts is never being able to beat out starter for a thier job.  In that sense Spikes or Mckenzie could be doomed for failure in a job where only 2 ILB'ers will start(assuming Mayo retains his position).  Cunningham on the other hand primarily needs to beat out TBC or Ninkovich.  He should get a fair chance to make an impact this season.

Dunlap has made him a shadow and thats probably why the dude was always a beast with Florida. 

Cunningham has to make the transition to OLB in the 3-4. He was a defensive end at Florida. He's coming to a new system. Spikes is being asked to play a position he is comfortable with ILB. I think it took Willie McGinest and Teddy Bruschi some time to settle in to the 3-4 defense. Bottom line- The NFL has turned into a pure passing league and I sure hope that Belichick finds a couple edge rushers fast! We have not put much pressure on opposing QBs. It's the reason we went for it on 4th and 2 at the 25 yard line against the Colts last year! That's my opinion.

In Response to Re: Cunningham:

Just out of curiosity where are you from?  I'm from the Bangor area but I'm in Germany now (Army).  I have family in Rockland.

He's the 6th player on the OLB roster.

In Response to Re: Cunningham:


Yeah but Orapko was in a 4-3 in Washington.   He was also a 1st rd pick.  Cunningham is a 2nd rd pick and coming into a 3-4. I don't think that is comparabale.

We just disagree on the context comparables here.

I'd be thrilled to see him come in and contribute, learn the concepts of a 3-4 and make some plays here in there in spots, maybe in a blow out game if there is one, or have him focus on a particular role either in a subpackaged pass or run down situation to get him acclimated.

I just don't feel OLB is easy to fill in a 3-4, especially one like this.  It's why BB always wanted veterans to play the position. It's why McGinest struggled adjusting to it for years. It's why Bruschi went from OLB to ILB.  The list goes on and on and on.

It's why Gholston is a bust. It's why many 3-4 teams completely passed, multiple times on Sergio Kindle and why NE passed on Jerry Hughes.

Matthews in GB playing well in a 3-4 in GB's first year using it was either complete luck or that guy is a total aberration.

I think we also slightly disagree on the idea of the OLBs being "weak".   Again, I think this is the idea that NE fans want to see the name on the back of the shirt to make them feel better with a known commodity.  I agree, it would be nice if we had a Colvin or Vrabel in his prime, but those days are obviously long gone.

Woods and Crable are likely not high end performers for an NFL team, sure, but Burgess, TBC, Ninkovich and possibly Cunningham can be a good group this year.

Burgess improved in the role especially down the stretch and hopefully now knows how to set the edge better.  This is really the problem, as is DE health and impact toward the OLB position as they work together to collapse the pocket.

If I am not mistaken, TBC was ranked as the 6th best OLB last year with total metrics, so he's clearly a solid player there now.  Burgess is a question mark because we don't know if he'll be better and you seem to be convinced he is only a one down player.  He's always been a 3 down player in a 4-3, he just needs to play a different style here.

We shall see. I do agree it's a question mark in terms of how it will be, but I seriously see it being a more effective position than it was last year.

You have 3 players returning with their second yer in the system.  I don't count Woods or Crable here, because I don't feel they are going to make the team and probably shouldn't.

No real Pro Bowlers in this group, but the 3-4 here is not about racking about gaudy stats numbers, it's about setting the edge on the run and then working in tandem with the DE and how the DEs work alongside Wilfork as a team rush, so to speak.

This is why Vrabel and McGinest barely ever went to a Pro Bowl, yet everyone raved about their play for years.

FInally, I think Mayo did so well because he had Bruschi as a tutor (I am still convinced BB asked Bruschi to stay one more year to help transition) and again, consider it some luck and a testament to Mayo's drive and ability to absorb info and apply it.  It's hard to gauge how someone will do in a 3-4 as as rookie.

In Response to Re: Cunningham:


Exactly.  I didn't even read responses past Maritimes (to mine) and I just said the exact same thing in response.  3-4 is a whole other animal.  This is why I laugh when that turd Kiper constantly says NE didn't take a pass rusher in the draft. Kiper does not get it and it's why he'd never, ever be a GM or a scout in the NFL.

As for the 4th and 2 game, remember Burgess was new and both TBC and an emerging Ninkovich who both had great 1st halves, got hurt.  Also, it was Warren's and Green's 1st game back together, likely not in great game shape after missing a bunch and probably not 100%.

Not trying to make excuses, but realistically, you have to take these things into account for context. 

This is like saying "The Pats defense stinks because they weren't a top unit last year".  Well, no kidding, they are rebuilding filling in for GREAT players here like Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi and Vrable, not to mention looking for a Samuel replacement since 2008.

I think BB has been incredible as a coach in 2008 with the Cassel thing and with flaws in 2009 trying to tweak a new D with new personnel all over the field.

It's not so much the sacks when I look at Burgess. I saw more confidence in style of play.  You could just see he was playing with more fire and confidence, albeit against crappier teams.

But, that is fine.  It's more about these players being comfortable so BB can scheme more with the personnel. That's how I see it.  BB schemed more and more and more when he had the same personnel here from 2001-2007, so to speak.

2002 sucked because he had some bad transitioning out of a miracle FA set of stop gap moves with older players he was trying to replace, which led to bad tackling and fundamental system fit issues.

Here, he is apparentl convinced a trade for Burgess will be a good move and his handpicks of people like Crable (total long shot, in my opinion, yes) and scrap heaps types like Ninkovich or a high end pick like a Cunningham, can work.

Yup, huge question mark, the biggest going into the season.

We'll know if that means anything by how Burgess looks in preseason.

We agree this is a major question mark in terms of quality and subsequent depth. No doubt.

But, if Burgess does play well, which I feel he will, and BB can filter in a Ninkovich with some scheming, giving Burgess or TBC a rest here and there, we will likely see better play from this area as compared to last year.

How great would it be if Cunningham comes into camp with it clicking and he can be used with Ninkovich as a subpackage player though? That's pretty much the ceiling I am hoping for. Anything else is pie in the sky though.

If BB can rotate two solid units at OLB and maybe play some 4-3 with Guyton at MLB or at OLB?  He's got some versatilty possibilities if these things break right.

And again, please stay healthy!

Here is something on the rookies in mini camp

http://musketfire.com/2010/05/02/pats-rookies-continue-to-impress/

In Response to Re: Cunningham:


that's an excellent opinion though. i think you hit it right on the head. 

and when i look at the first 4 olbs on the roster (or all the way to cunningham), i still get concerned. i believe that the starting olbs need to be much much better that last year. i am not seeing any indication that any pair on that list would raise the starting olb pair's performance significantly. i am really hoping that i am wrong to be concerned.

In Response to Re: Cunningham:


It had a lot more to do with the injuries to TBC and Ninkovich, who were all over Manning in the 1st half and the fact there was  lot of time left on the clock for Manningn than it did the the D wasn't good enough.

They were good enough the whole game, bordering on dominating at times especially Bodden in coverage until beaten on a sweet route by Garcon and a great throw by Manning.

Without a ridiculously bogus PI call on Butler, the 4th and 2 never exists.

The 4th and 2 is another example of NE playing behind the 8 ball with Polian's officials in Indy.

It's like clockwork every year. Expect egregiously favorable officiating in favor of Indy.

Horrendous music here, but at 22 seconds in, when the flag comes on the Butler interference call I get that same sinking feeling in my stomach., It was very similar to when Samuel had textbook coverage on Lelie in the divisional playoff in January of 2006 in Denver, where Plummer launched the ball out of the end zone, leaving it uncatchable, and the flag comes in 5 seconds after the ball hits the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll9bJSkr5zo&feature=related

Simply disturbing.

In Response to Re: Cunningham:


In a perfect world, sure.

But, I also think he can become a Vrabel type player who gets 5-7 sacks per year and does a  nice job on the edge.   This will be the year we either find that out or watch an edge problem again.

I do agree he needs to improve in the edge setting area, but I also feel Jarvis Green and Mike Wright are too small for a 3-4 DE to help him do that.   This cannot be ignored, in my opinion.  The 3-4 DE is basically working as part of a pair with the OLB.

It's not like a 4-3 where you have a full on rushing DE and the OLB is expected to be pretty much on his own on the outside.

I seriously think TBC is emerging into a quality OLB in the league.

You have to look at the big picture.  Green had a foot problem basically all year and was pretty much ineffective next to TBC. 

In Response to Re: Cunningham:


Good point. He's definately going to have some impact at the OLB position as, let's face it, Burgess and TBC are JAGs. Cunningham should be getting some significant playing time in their positions, especially towards the end of the season.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what Cunningham and all our rooks and IR "red shirts" can do on the field this year!

I think it's quite possible that TBC needed a change of scenery to to see what it would take to commit to take his game to the next level.   He's said as much in interviews as well, and I think his play reflected that last year.

He was clearly improved as a player last season compared to what he was during his first, rather limited stint here. Obviously, limited because of people like Vrabel, Colvin or even a Roman Phifer being used in schemes in front of him as seasoned pros.

He's now in his prime years, so this is when a player is supposed to rise.

Keep in mind too, that essentially every GREAT NE player in the dynasty years here became GREAT under BB and working as one.  Perhaps in no other system is the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

It's about parts seamlessly working as one.

No one ever really gave any Pats player on defense any credit, calling them "overrated", "slow", "they don't go to Pro Bowls", "they steal headset calls", etc, etc.

Whatever excuse anyone who was jealous of what BB lays down, they'd find to justify why they'd be outplayed both physically and mentally.

Meanwhile, we watch, clean and fundamentally sound football every week, not surprised when they work together to make plays.

BB needs talent, yes, but it is truly a system thing here as much as any defense in the NFL.

I'd rate TBC as #1 due to most system knowledge, Burgess #2 for Pro Bowl level play in a 4-3 DE (but not here/just that kind of potential quality from past successes), Ninkovich #3 and Woods #4. 

That's based on what I have seen in a 3-4 system.

I see Ninkovich above Woods based on his ability to come in and play in spots, and in my opinion, play pretty well. He was no slouch in college and isn't anything spectacular, but the intelligence and blue collar style can be of use here.  For someone to come in basically as a scrap heap pick up and actually make plays in a mess of a situation, I was impressed.

Woods has been a total disappointment, in my opinion. He's a case of being nothing more than an emergency player who probably maxed out in college.  He's the Eric Alexander of the OLBs.

Crable?  Has all the potential, but this is it for him. If he doesn't dominate in camp, he's done. Not just here, but for his career. He's missed too much in development to catch on and make a team.

I put Crable and CUnningham in the same boat as rated 5 and 6, but with Cunningham, clearly the more vested player here.

Snap %?  70% for TBC and Burgess based on 2 down play.  And 30% for Ninkovich on one of the sides.  Maybe, maybe Cunningham can provide this as well.

The reason Cunningham does not come with Higher expectation is because His production was not nearly where it should of been in college. You forget that Dunlap absorbed alot of DBL teams. That should of given Cunningham more opportunity to get after the QB. My Take on Cunningham is this. He has all the Physical tools, I feel like he may be a much better Pro than he was in college. Remains to be seen if he has the explosion off the Edge that makes a great OLB in the 3-4.Make no mistake he will not be taking over for Burgess, not right away anyway.

During Floridas season and even the draft talks alot of talks were on Dunlap and him being one of the most interesting prospects in the entire draft which I disagree with. To me its pretty simple with Dunlap if he gets into a losing situation this is a guy who is going to half a it around the field. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Cunningham plays on third and long with the first defense on this August 12. 

A.  He can play.  He's big. 

--oops I got distracted for 4 hours.---

B.  He's got moves now.  He's fast enough to get around the end, he's big enough to bull rush, he can swim, he can rip.

C.  He's from florida so he can fit right in to the Patriots.

D.  He probably shouldn't drop into coverage too often.  If he does, BB will have to keep things vanilla.  He's still a rookie.

Tully Banta got almost all of his sacks from the Bills. You ask how many of those sacks came against the Bills? 5 of his 9.5 sacks came against the Bills.

I'm with everything everyone has already said

In Response to Re: Cunningham:

Did you miss my post or do you not want to give away your secret identity?

Bump

I'm going to be honest here. I don't have the highest expectations for Cunningham and I think he has fair bust potential. I really hope I'm wrong, but I didn't see anything special from him when I watched the Florida games or even highlight reels. To be fair haven't seen a whole lot of their games, so I'm not very qualified to make a grand assessment of him. He just seems very risky to me.

However, I do think he'll have a fair share of snaps during the season. If he has a good camp I could definitely see him subbing in quite often, but not starting early on due to his lack of experience in the system and NFL. If he plays well while he subs I could see him as a starter late this season or next year. It would be great if he pans out, and he certainly could. I'm just not going to get my hopes up too high.