Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]GOOD! F*ck Curtis Martin. You act like he will get into the HOF as a Pat but he is going in as a Jet. A filthy stinking Jet and you want to cheer for him? ....
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    They don't go into the football HOF as a member of any team. That's baseball.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenacioust. Show tenacioust's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

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    [QUOTE]I can't believe all the misplaced venom spewed his way. It's his fault he played out his rookie contract, went through the exclusive negotiating period when the Pats failed to come up with a fair offer, and became a FREE AGENT and signed the best deal out there? Add Ty Law, Asante Samuel, Deion Branch, Adam Vinatieri, Damien Woody, Willie McGinest and every other Pat who ever left to that list. What sour grapes. Yeah, but keep celebrating people like Rodney Harrison for doing the exact opposite. Hypocrites. "Oh wah, he recruited our players..." You mean like how BB does at the Pro Bowl? Go cry somewhere else.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    If I was crying the top of your mom's head would be wet.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?! : They don't go into the football HOF as a member of any team. That's baseball.
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]

    LOL
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    Want everyone to agree with me? Hardly. In fact, I prefer people to not agree, it gives me something to do.

    My point about the crying was people whining about Martin supposedly back-stabbing the Pats.

    Here's the facts:

    Martin had completed 3 years, missed 3 games the previous season, and was a RESTRICTED free agent.

    The Pats made no offer beyond the $1mil tender.

    The Jets then stepped in and made a confusing, convoluted 6 year/$36 mil offer and he, shockingly (sarcasm), accepted.

    March 21, 1998, NY Times: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70C14FD3F5C0C728EDDAA0894D0494D81

    (I'd use globe articles, but they pathetically make you pay for articles that old)

    The Pats couldn't make another offer, they could match or take the compensation, and here's a few little blurbs to let you know where the coach (Carroll) and the owner (Kraft) were at as far as that's concerned:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WdogAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UmsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1774,4263841&dq=martin+leaves+pats+for+jets&hl=en

    http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bostonherald/access/27816132.html?dids=27816132:27816132&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Mar+25%2C+1998&author=KEVIN+MANNIX&pub=Boston+Herald&desc=Football%3B+Martin%27s+silence+says+it+all&pqatl=google

    Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but can anyone blame him for NOT wanting to play for Carroll? Maybe he knew what a joke this guy was before everyone else. Also, fans were shouting for the team to take care of Brady a year before his deal was up. Fans wanted to pay Asante whatever he wanted. Everyone would have blamed the team had Vince walked, but this was Martin's fault. That's amazing. I think the simple fact he went to the Jets is more than most around here can handle.

    And as far as the inter-division changes not accepted in coaching ranks...like Parcells going NE - NYJ, then BB going NYJ - NE...then Mangini going NE - NYJ...not accepted at all.

    I'm not asking anyone to root for the Jets, all I was asking was for people to give a football player credit for being the quality football player he was, take off the flying elvis glasses.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from df2. Show df2's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    Well, to me there is a difference between Curtis Martin being used and abused and leaving to go to a team that wasn't even our rival yet and Adam V shanking the Pats and their fans over 500k to go to a team that actually was our rival.

    When he did that the Colts were the number one most hated team of Pats fans by a longshot. And he didn't care.

    The Jets? Sure we have a history with them, but I would hardly call it a rivalry. The Jets have been a joke for decades and the Pats are, well, the Pats. As much as I hated the Colts, I feared them. I have never been afraid of the Jets. I don't really care for the Jets. But I can't take them seriously enough to hate them.

    Even last year, when they finally beat us in a game that meant something. I still don't think they are on our level talent wise. I think the Pats choked more than the Jets beat them. The Pats would have lost to anybody that day- the way they played. Like the Browns game.

    I  just don't have the hatred for the Jets the way some of you guys do. I thought maybe that would change if they knocked us out of the playoffs. But it wasn't like some of those Colts losses where the Colts got handed playoff games they shouldn't have won. The Pats just didn't show up. Hard to blame that on the Jets. To me, the Jets are just a pathetic joke. A non entity.

    On the other hand Baltimore is in pretty much the same postition. And I despise them. Go figure.

    And as for the recruitment issue. I don't know how you can hold that against a guy. Why wouldn't he want to improve his team and play with guys he was familiar with and probably had friendships with? He is human, you know. I'd be willing to bet every player does this. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from paparui. Show paparui's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]martin was maybe the best RB the pats ever had, albeit it was a short stint with us.  the fog bowl, which i believe was in 2006, was a great example of him coming through when they needed him.  he was always a solid 4 yard gain and gave the extra effort - like law firm but with more talent. he should get in the HOF eventually.... but, neon deion?  please, that guy was a track star with good hands and no balls, not a FB player.
    Posted by geebs70[/QUOTE]

    Posts like this is why I laugh at some Pats fans that think they know football. Deion Sanders wasn't a football player? Really!!! Ask that question to both the 49ers and Cowboys the years he switched teams and was one of the reasons they won the superbowl each year he switched. The guy shut down the passing game on 1 side of the field the entire game. When QB's were stupid enough to throw his way he made a highlight out of it returning it for a touchdown. Was he a good tackler? He was far from it but his main job was taking away a teams best pass option the whole game like no other CB could do even now. If you try to say Champ or Nnamdi are in the same class your wrong cause I've seen them get beat by top WR's.

    I will agree that Martin is in the discussion of best Pats RB's ever and eventually should get in the Hall of Fame. People that are hating on Martin for going to the Jets would have done the same thing if you got paid peanuts for the 5 years he gave the Pats. The guy was never rewarded an extension after playing at a Pro Bowl level since he joined the league and was forced to play out that minimum contract. Yet people expect him to take a hometown discount when it was his only chance to get guaranteed money to secure his future. The guy had a bad knee injury in college that dropped him to the 3rd round so of course he needed that money security while also playing for a coach he's played for his entire career.

    People in NE are way to spoiled and feel players owe it to them to stay in NE when other teams show more love and money. The Pats had a chance to match the offer but instead decided to take the 1st and 3rd round pick. No appreciation for class acts like Martin which is why I laugh at Pats fans that suffer through Pat defeats in recent years. I call that Karma especially for haters that feel Martin got what was coming to him getting zero rings for leaving NE.

    Just a fun fact for you. Martin was dating Toni Braxton at the time. She was living in N.Y. at the time so any guy would leave their job for another job with more money and to be next to their woman.

    If the Pats don't win another ring with Brady at QB I'm gonna place my blame on Pats fans and Bill's ego for not drafting stud pass rushing DE's and OLB's the past few drafts. The team would have beat the Jets and been in the superbowl if Bill didn't think he was the zen master and thought he could make pass rushers out of slow 300lb. run stuffing DT's. I knew it would catch up to them when they played good defenses and faced teams that could protect their QB. No reason Sanchez should be throwing a 90+ qb rating against you. He is terrible and it pisses me off when he's getting praise for doing absolutely nothing. Players have limitations and Ron Brace along with all the current D-Lineman aren't pass rushers and never will be so stop living in the past where teams only ran the ball and draft actual pass rushers to stop teams in the passing era. If Mark Sanchez throws another good game against the Pats I'm gonna stab the 1st person wearing a Pats jersey with a ice sword. Knowing my luck next winter season will be warm with no snow so it won't be possible.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]Want everyone to agree with me? Hardly. In fact, I prefer people to not agree, it gives me something to do. My point about the crying was people whining about Martin supposedly back-stabbing the Pats. Here's the facts: Martin had completed 3 years, missed 3 games the previous season, and was a RESTRICTED free agent. The Pats made no offer beyond the $1mil tender. The Jets then stepped in and made a confusing, convoluted 6 year/$36 mil offer and he, shockingly (sarcasm), accepted. March 21, 1998, NY Times: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70C14FD3F5C0C728EDDAA0894D0494D81 (I'd use globe articles, but they pathetically make you pay for articles that old) The Pats couldn't make another offer, they could match or take the compensation, and here's a few little blurbs to let you know where the coach (Carroll) and the owner (Kraft) were at as far as that's concerned: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WdogAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UmsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1774,4263841&dq=martin+leaves+pats+for+jets&hl=en http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bostonherald/access/27816132.html?dids=27816132:27816132&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Mar+25%2C+1998&author=KEVIN+MANNIX&pub=Boston+Herald&desc=Football%3B+Martin%27s+silence+says+it+all&pqatl=google Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but can anyone blame him for NOT wanting to play for Carroll? Maybe he knew what a joke this guy was before everyone else. Also, fans were shouting for the team to take care of Brady a year before his deal was up. Fans wanted to pay Asante whatever he wanted. Everyone would have blamed the team had Vince walked, but this was Martin's fault. That's amazing. I think the simple fact he went to the Jets is more than most around here can handle. And as far as the inter-division changes not accepted in coaching ranks...like Parcells going NE - NYJ, then BB going NYJ - NE...then Mangini going NE - NYJ...not accepted at all. I'm not asking anyone to root for the Jets, all I was asking was for people to give a football player credit for being the quality football player he was, take off the flying elvis glasses.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    You make an awful lot of good points in this post that are easily forgotten over the years.
     #1 The Patriots and Carroll showed very little interest in signing Martin and thought themselves all the wiser for obtaining the compensatory picks from the Jets. I remember Bill Parcells commenting when asked about giving up the draft picks to a team in his own division. His reply, " I don't care because they don't know how to draft anyway"..He was correct.

    Also, we didn't know it completely at the time but Pete Carroll was considered a nimrod by many of the players and why wouldn't Martin want to go play for a hall of fame coach whom he had the utmost respect for.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    Martin should have gotten in. Great, durable back.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?! : You make an awful lot of good points in this post that are easily forgotten over the years.  #1 The Patriots and Carroll showed very little interest in signing Martin and thought themselves all the wiser for obtaining the compensatory picks from the Jets. I remember Bill Parcells commenting when asked about giving up the draft picks to a team in his own division. His reply, " I don't care because they don't know how to draft anyway"..He was correct. Also, we didn't know it completely at the time but Pete Carroll was considered a nimrod by many of the players and why wouldn't Martin want to go play for a hall of fame coach whom he had the utmost respect for.
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]

    Lest we should forget, we were a freak injury away from having many years of the equally as productive Robert Edwards at running back... Oh well.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    Yeah. I think the "they don't know how to draft line" is sour grapes from a man with an enormous ego who wasn't so great at drafting either.

    Funny how the Tuna never totally understood economics enough to do anything in NY or Dallas. Or now Miami.

    Just how great was he at drafting? Hmm.

    Wasn't it the great George Young who brought championships to Baltimore, Miami and the Giants?

    Oh, I think so!  Note what happened when George Young left each coach's side.

    This where the Shula and Tuna aspects are exposed, badly. Once George Young left his posts, each of those team's got worse.

    I also think Parcells "retired" the first time because Young was close to retiring and BB wanted to be a head coach.

    Parcells likes to pass of blame and then act he's some kind of a savior all the time.  That only was true as a coach, but not a GM.

    Parcells was no better or worse than Bobby Grier. Period.

    Grier drafted Robert Edwards, who was well on his way to a legit career here.

    People like Shula and Parcells like to act it was all them, but really, it was George Young who was the brains behind the personnel in those markets and the Colts, Dolphins and Giants glory years.

    Young's philosophy also fell victim to the cap era format, but he was arguably the best GM of all time next to someone like Halas, Lombardi or Paul Brown.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Young_%28football_executive%29
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from paparui. Show paparui's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]Yeah. I think the "they don't know how to draft line" is sour grapes from a man with an enormous ego who wasn't so great at drafting either. Funny how the Tuna never totally understood economics enough to do anything in NY or Dallas. Or now Miami. Just how great was he at drafting? Hmm. Wasn't it the great George Young who brought championships to Baltimore, Miami and the Giants? Oh, I think so!  Note what happened when George Young left each coach's side. This where the Shula and Tuna aspects are exposed, badly. Once George Young left his posts, each of those team's got worse. I also think Parcells "retired" the first time because Young was close to retiring and BB wanted to be a head coach. Parcells likes to pass of blame and then act he's some kind of a savior all the time.  That only was true as a coach, but not a GM. Parcells was no better or worse than Bobby Grier. Period. Grier drafted Robert Edwards, who was well on his way to a legit career here. People like Shula and Parcells like to act it was all them, but really, it was George Young who was the brains behind the personnel in those markets and the Colts, Dolphins and Giants glory years. Young's philosophy also fell victim to the cap era format, but he was arguably the best GM of all time next to someone like Halas, Lombardi or Paul Brown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Young_%28football_executive%29
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    You might need to look at some of Bobby Grier Drafts cause the guy was plain terrible. Cris Canty was drafted by him and he later said if he didn't pan out as a cover corner he at least will be a great Special teamer. Really!!! 1st round pick on a special teamer. That alone tells me he had no clue how to evaluate talent. Robert Edwards could have been great but he got hurt so he's considered a bust. The guy also drafted Katzenmoyer and he never lived up to his potential.

    Parcells had a big influence of picks while with the Pats until the Terry Glenn pick which he did help lead them to a Superbowl but overall didn't live up to the billing of a number 1 WR he was projected for his career. Solid career but not great. I've pulled up the Parcell's drafts before and don't feel liek looking them up again but I remember the Dolphins having a few solid drafts under Parcells that I would consider better than some of Belichick's drafts from 2006-2008. The guy knows talent better than you think and he always turns a bad franchise around into a playoff contender within 3 seasons. Not many Coaches or GM's you can say they have done that.

    The fact that Parcells said they couldn't draft anyway when giving up the Martin picks pretty much came true since they drafted terribly. Hate the guy all you want but don't be ignorant and say he's in the same class as Bobby Grier. You just look stupid making comments like that.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    Bobby Grier was head of player personnel and drafted all the Pats HOFers either overruling Parcells or picking players by himself.  I am sure sometimes he made concessions for a Parcells pick.

    The reality is, Parcells is a defensive guy and doesn't squat about offense.

    I still chuckle at Parcells being uptight about terry Glenn when his 90 receptions make SB 31 a reality.

    There is nothing stupid about it.  Parcells was a coach in NE, not a GM.

    It's why he left.

    Parcells is incredibly overrated as a GM. It's been proven when he quit in NY, Dallas and now Miami. That's really the point here. He had one good draft in Dallas, maybe two, quit and then is now quitting in Miami when the fire gets hot.

    Anyone can go from 1-15 and improve.

    Your comments reek of the classic Parcells fanboy rhetoric.  The media thought he was funny so Parcells became this god.  Whoppee.

    Great coach, average GM.

    I didn't say Grier was great, either. I am well aware of the poor drafts. 

    Let me know when Parcells takes an Economics 101 class. They just gave Marshall the moon down there.   And Chad Henne may not be the guy either.

    Sweet!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]1. Martin followed Parcells first. The money was second. 2. I don't care how he enters the hall, the man has a lot of class and grace and is a winner. More players should try to be like him.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]

    I ABSOLUTELY and 100% agree with this one here...  You can blame tuna for scr#wing NE as a Coach, but Parcells knew exactly what he had in Curtis Martin, and Parcells simply made a 10X harder push for him then NE did at the time.  Shoot, I wish I could say "F- Curtis Martin!"  But that just ain't the reality...  Always humble & modest, never a bad word about any player or organization that I even remotely know of...  Guy was just a class act.  And as an RB, it's not like he was in some super juggernaut offenses in NE from '95-'00, and/or same with NY for the next 5 years as a pro.  He was just one'a those RBs without any insane single-trademark like Barry Sanders breaking defender's ankles...but Martin was just so nasty in how solid of a game he had @ RB.  One'a those guys that defense's go after the game and every game, "HowInTH did Curtis Martin get another 100 yard game, AGAIN!"  Good receiver too...  Not a d#psh!t loudmouth like Marshall Faulk, so no=Curtis Martin's superior RBing abilities and overall career will have to wait awhile.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?! : Lest we should forget, we were a freak injury away from having many years of the equally as productive Robert Edwards at running back... Oh well.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    They also had a bad break with Andy Katzenmoyer and that neck injury. He had a solid year his rookie season and then got hurt. I think that was one of the picks they got for Parcells leaving. When things go bad it just seems to snowball.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from donk3. Show donk3's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    I remember when Martin left as a F/A.  Parcells offered Martin a huge contract hoping the Pats would match it and, in turn, take a hit on the salary cap.  Instead, the Pats let him go and New Jersey took the hit and, limited themselves to who they could then sign.  I also disagree that Martin would have helped win SBs.  Smith and Dillon were able to get the tough yard when needed.  Martin was the only TB I can remember who would hit the line and always fall BACKWARD.  So a 3rd and one became a 4th and 2.  Who can forget Smith and Dillon lowering their head and pounding the ball.  Martin could never be that kind of runner. 
         On another note, I remember reading in the Sporting News during training camp when Ben Coats signed with Baltimore that it was apparent to everyone that Coats, not Sharp, was the premier TE in the NFL.  He out blocked, out ran and out caught Sharp.  He also got hurt and Sharp got all the playing time.  Coats had the softest hands of any TE I ever saw.  Sharp, in my opinion, had iron hands.  He was and still is obvioulsy a steroid freak with a really big mouth and a superiority complex.  Hard to believe Ben Coats has been forgotten so soon.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?! : Lest we should forget, we were a freak injury away from having many years of the equally as productive Robert Edwards at running back... Oh well.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Don't even go there. Flag football on a beach? What could go wrong? I know injuries happen, but in a stupid gimmick (that lasted all of this ONE year) that costs a team and player so much, the league really should have compensated the Pats. I'm not talking a first rounder, but give them a compensation pick similiar to when losing free agents. But, like you said...oh well.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]I remember when Martin left as a F/A.  Parcells offered Martin a huge contract hoping the Pats would match it and, in turn, take a hit on the salary cap.  Instead, the Pats let him go and New Jersey took the hit and, limited themselves to who they could then sign.  I also disagree that Martin would have helped win SBs.  Smith and Dillon were able to get the tough yard when needed.  Martin was the only TB I can remember who would hit the line and always fall BACKWARD.  So a 3rd and one became a 4th and 2.  Who can forget Smith and Dillon lowering their head and pounding the ball.  Martin could never be that kind of runner.       On another note, I remember reading in the Sporting News during training camp when Ben Coats signed with Baltimore that it was apparent to everyone that Coats, not Sharp, was the premier TE in the NFL.  He out blocked, out ran and out caught Sharp.  He also got hurt and Sharp got all the playing time.  Coats had the softest hands of any TE I ever saw.  Sharp, in my opinion, had iron hands.  He was and still is obvioulsy a steroid freak with a really big mouth and a superiority complex.  Hard to believe Ben Coats has been forgotten so soon.
    Posted by donk3[/QUOTE]

    I'll never forget Ben Coates. It's a shame the nickname "Big Ben" has been bastardized. It makes me happy to see Gronk running around, doing #87 proud. He was basically the last of his type of TE for a while. Big, road grading blocker, soft hands. CBs were too small to cover him, LBs too slow, and few teams at the time would consider wasting a S on the TE. He truly did it all, and did it all extremely well. Sharpe did one thing well, and that was run his big fat horse mouth.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from paparui. Show paparui's posts

    Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!

    In Response to Re: Curtis Martin NOT elected to HOF?!?!:
    [QUOTE]Bobby Grier was head of player personnel and drafted all the Pats HOFers either overruling Parcells or picking players by himself.  I am sure sometimes he made concessions for a Parcells pick. The reality is, Parcells is a defensive guy and doesn't squat about offense. I still chuckle at Parcells being uptight about terry Glenn when his 90 receptions make SB 31 a reality. There is nothing stupid about it.  Parcells was a coach in NE, not a GM. It's why he left. Parcells is incredibly overrated as a GM. It's been proven when he quit in NY, Dallas and now Miami. That's really the point here. He had one good draft in Dallas, maybe two, quit and then is now quitting in Miami when the fire gets hot. Anyone can go from 1-15 and improve. Your comments reek of the classic Parcells fanboy rhetoric.  The media thought he was funny so Parcells became this god.  Whoppee. Great coach, average GM. I didn't say Grier was great, either. I am well aware of the poor drafts.  Let me know when Parcells takes an Economics 101 class. They just gave Marshall the moon down there.   And Chad Henne may not be the guy either. Sweet!
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying Parcells is a great GM but the guy has somewhat of a clue when drafting defensive guys. You can give Grier credit with drafts under Parcells but seeing Griers drafts after Parcells left makes me wonder how much Parcells really impacted that draft room. Can you even think of any players off the top of your head that the Pats drafted from 1997-2000 that were quality starters for Patriot Superbowl runs. Only guy I can think of is Woody but that's about it.

    Parcells doesn't work the cap great but he has consistently solid drafts. He got Dallas some impact Defensive players that Wade Phillips benefited from greatly once Parcells left. Unfortunately Wade Phillips is a terrible Head Coach and should just stick to DCing.
     
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