Dashon Goldson a system player?

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    Dashon Goldson a system player?

    Hard question to answer, but here are some points that have led me to question that:

    1. Wasn't a probowl caliber player before Harbaugh came in

    2. Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers weren't pro bowl players before Harbaugh came in

    3. All those guys become pro bowl/all pro players during the Harbaugh era

    3. Justin Smith gets hurt and pretty much all members of the SF secondary was exposed in the playoffs.

     

    Is Goldson better than our safeties? Yeah. I'm not sure he's 38 million or however much he wants better than our safeties. He's a good hitter, but his coverage skills were a bit exposed when the 49ers stopped getting a pass rush. The pass rush the 49ers showcased in the playoffs is what the Pats have showcased throughout the entire season.

     

    Point is, if the Pats plan on keeping their big 3 FA's, they will probably only have enough money for 1 big FA, if they choose to go after a marquee name. I think Goldson would be a mistake. You won't be getting what you pay for unless you have a decent pass rush, and you won't be able to get a decent pass rush if you prioritize Goldson.

     

    Thoughts? I could be wrong. But I don't think he's as sure a thing as others think he is.

     
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    Re: Dashon Goldson a system player?

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    Hard question to answer, but here are some points that have led me to question that:

    1. Wasn't a probowl caliber player before Harbaugh came in

    2. Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers weren't pro bowl players before Harbaugh came in

    3. All those guys become pro bowl/all pro players during the Harbaugh era

    3. Justin Smith gets hurt and pretty much all members of the SF secondary was exposed in the playoffs.

     

    Is Goldson better than our safeties? Yeah. I'm not sure he's 38 million or however much he wants better than our safeties. He's a good hitter, but his coverage skills were a bit exposed when the 49ers stopped getting a pass rush. The pass rush the 49ers showcased in the playoffs is what the Pats have showcased throughout the entire season.

     

    Point is, if the Pats plan on keeping their big 3 FA's, they will probably only have enough money for 1 big FA, if they choose to go after a marquee name. I think Goldson would be a mistake. You won't be getting what you pay for unless you have a decent pass rush, and you won't be able to get a decent pass rush if you prioritize Goldson.

     

    Thoughts? I could be wrong. But I don't think he's as sure a thing as others think he is.

     




    I think it has more to do with their depth and talent they added. Like, Carlos Rogers was pretty good on a bad skins team, but if you use him as a slot CB on a better D in SF, he looks better.

     

    If you look at their adds with Rogers, Smith and Whitner, each was a good, above average add being put onto a better D.  Also, Ahmad Brooks was another.

    I think Goldson is part of that. Throw in Aldon Smith into that base and it's more about all the parts working together.

    If Goldson wants 6-8 per year, etc, I'd stay away, but 4-5, he'd be a fine fit here for the long term next to McCourty, IMO.

    It's more talent and depth than system, IMO.  Take a look at their D and then look at our base. BB is simply not that far off with what he has here already.  Some like to mock BB, but the base of talent on this D is right there.

     

     

     

     



    Well, that's kind of what I was saying. In other words, he needs good players around him to look good.

    Also, Carlos Rogers was actually pretty bad in the slot this season...great last year, not so much this year.

     

    I wouldn't say our base is close to SF's. Hightower hasn't proven anything yet, same with Jones. Pats have high picks invested into the front 7, but that doesn't make them good. BB has drafted a lot of good run stuffers, but those same guys are a liability in coverage

     

    Here's the biggest difference, Willis and Bowman are above average coverage linebackers...which I think has played a huge part in Whitner and Goldson's level of play in the last couple of seasons. Spikes is a liability in coverage and Mayo is meh.

    Goldson is a piece to the puzzle, he isn't the answer. At 38 million, they'd be paying him like he's the answer.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Dashon Goldson a system player?

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    Hard question to answer, but here are some points that have led me to question that:

    1. Wasn't a probowl caliber player before Harbaugh came in

    2. Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers weren't pro bowl players before Harbaugh came in

    3. All those guys become pro bowl/all pro players during the Harbaugh era

    3. Justin Smith gets hurt and pretty much all members of the SF secondary was exposed in the playoffs.

     

    Is Goldson better than our safeties? Yeah. I'm not sure he's 38 million or however much he wants better than our safeties. He's a good hitter, but his coverage skills were a bit exposed when the 49ers stopped getting a pass rush. The pass rush the 49ers showcased in the playoffs is what the Pats have showcased throughout the entire season.

     

    Point is, if the Pats plan on keeping their big 3 FA's, they will probably only have enough money for 1 big FA, if they choose to go after a marquee name. I think Goldson would be a mistake. You won't be getting what you pay for unless you have a decent pass rush, and you won't be able to get a decent pass rush if you prioritize Goldson.

     

    Thoughts? I could be wrong. But I don't think he's as sure a thing as others think he is.

     




    I think it has more to do with their depth and talent they added. Like, Carlos Rogers was pretty good on a bad skins team, but if you use him as a slot CB on a better D in SF, he looks better.

     

    If you look at their adds with Rogers, Smith and Whitner, each was a good, above average add being put onto a better D.  Also, Ahmad Brooks was another.

    I think Goldson is part of that. Throw in Aldon Smith into that base and it's more about all the parts working together.

    If Goldson wants 6-8 per year, etc, I'd stay away, but 4-5, he'd be a fine fit here for the long term next to McCourty, IMO.

    It's more talent and depth than system, IMO.  Take a look at their D and then look at our base. BB is simply not that far off with what he has here already.  Some like to mock BB, but the base of talent on this D is right there.

     

     

     

     

     



    Well, that's kind of what I was saying. In other words, he needs good players around him to look good.

     

    Also, Carlos Rogers was actually pretty bad in the slot this season...great last year, not so much this year.

     

    I wouldn't say our base is close to SF's. Hightower hasn't proven anything yet, same with Jones. Pats have high picks invested into the front 7, but that doesn't make them good. BB has drafted a lot of good run stuffers, but those same guys are a liability in coverage

     

    Here's the biggest difference, Willis and Bowman are above average coverage linebackers...which I think has played a huge part in Whitner and Goldson's level of play in the last couple of seasons. Spikes is a liability in coverage and Mayo is meh.

    Goldson is a piece to the puzzle, he isn't the answer. At 38 million, they'd be paying him like he's the answer.

     




    Oh, I thought you meant how Harbaugh runs his D (how he wants it run) and their one dimensional, but highly efficient 4-3 style.

     

    Yeah, I wouldn't overpay Goldson.  This came up in another thread.  There is some weight to that logic, no doubt.

    My issue with that is, NE's talent here on D is right there with SF. Patrick Willis is a bit better than Mayo, but generally speaking that's the same kind of player. I don't think Mayo is "meh" at all. A perennial Pro Bowler, leader of the LBs, go tell BB mayo is "meh".  DROY int he 2008, 1 year after Willis was drafted. I agree Willis is a bit better, maybe you think far better, but I disagree. It's the same player.

    Spikes is Navarro Bowman (Bowman isn't any better in coverage than Spikes/Spikes is fine in zone and in fact, he's been better with that every year).  Nink is say, Amhmad Brooks.

    Chandler Jones is Aldon Smith.  Yes, Smith has more sacks is probably better, but you get the idea.

    Some are acting like SF's talent on D is leaps and bounds better than NE's, and it's not. It's a little further along in terms of continuity, yes.

     

     

     



    Bowman is one of the better linebackers in coverage. Spikes would come out on more third downs if Fletcher was healthy.

     
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    Re: Dashon Goldson a system player?

    It's simple. Niners have a very good D, a huge # of picks (could replace Goldson). The only problem I foresee is if Kapernick regresses.  The Niners could easily trade up and get the best safety and the best WR in 2013 draft. I'm sure they'll be teams that want to trade down for more picks.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dashon Goldson a system player?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    Bowman is one of the better linebackers in coverage. Spikes would come out on more third downs if Fletcher was healthy.

     



    DaPats is right Bowman is better at coverage and might be the better overall LB, but Spikes is a better run stopper and is a bigger thumper in which the attitude of the D relies on. So I might consider them a wash, if the Pats have a good coverage LB to spell Spikes.

    But, I think Rusty's point is mostly right in that we have a number of comparable pieces to the 49ers we just need a couple more to solidify the D and I think we could see a drastic difference in performance. If you have a consistent starting secondary instead of this any player available and let them play together all year I think you'll see a bigger improvement and if you get someone next to Wilfork who can put pressure on a QB (not even get sacks just help collapse the pocket) along with a healthy Jones and this D will surprise a lot of people. The issue being without that second person next to Wilfork teams can double and triple Wilfork all day, QB's can step up and under the outside rush, and with so many moving pieces in the secondary there is no communication and things fall apart with missed pick ups.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Dashon Goldson a system player?

    I don't know? He's a pretty damn good player...he's pretty decent in coverage and he can play in the box. There was a play during the Super Bowl where he got low and drove into a running back like he was a train...haven't seen something like that on our team since Harrison was playing in the box. He is aided by a pass rush though, but still I don't see this guy signing anywhere for anything less than 6-7 million per season right now.

     
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