1. You have chosen to ignore posts from neackerwitz. Show neackerwitz's posts

    Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 6:48 PM EST

    I'm wondering why there is so much talk about needing a deep threat?  I dont know if I am the only one who realizes Tom Brady sucks at throwing deep?  The only time I can remember him being successful going deep was when he would "chuck it" downfield to a covered (sometimes doubled) Randy Moss and he would simply go up and get it.  He is a fantastic short to mid range passer.  I cringe everytime I see him go deep.  Think this years Baltimore and Superbowl games.  Also I dont think the Pats have run a screen in about 8 years.  I remember those screens being the staple of the offense and them winning rings..
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:00 PM EST

    While I agree with the notion that Brady isn't all that great going deep, the presence of a deep threat that dictates coverage is what we need.

    Hell, a deep threat isn't the right way to put it, we need a WR that can be affective outside the numbers with the ability to get separation and go deep.

    Right now, defenses can pack the middle of the field and play one safety deep on us with pure man across the board( think Steelers game), stuff the run and bump our WR's and TE's going over the middle. Makes life hell for Brady and the offense.

    You get someone that you wont cover one-on-one without safety help over the top like Lloyd, Bowe or Jackson and it immediately frees up the middle of the field.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:07 PM EST

    Look this team needs defensize help first and foremost, but the ability to stretch the field is one of the very few weaknesses this offense does have. 

    Here is the link:
    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4718530/scientist-cooks-up-pats-formula

    They need help getting into the third part of the field.  Just not as much help as they need stopping other O's. 
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:11 PM EST


    Not just deep, but perimeter.  Similar, but different.  Think David Givens. 
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from neackerwitz. Show neackerwitz's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:15 PM EST

    The Pats have never won a championship with a " deep threat"  its a myth.. its when he throws a fifty yard interception on first down that has kept them from glory..
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:35 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Deep Threat?:
    The Pats have never won a championship with a " deep threat"  its a myth.. its when he throws a fifty yard interception on first down that has kept them from glory..
    Posted by neackerwitz


    You're right.  They won with:

    1.  Stout Defenses (they don't have now) Top 10 D's
    2.  Strong running game (Dillion, Smith - Maybe they will have it next year)
    3.  Number 2WRs all over the place in-or-around their primes (Givens, Branch, Brown, Patten)
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:36 PM EST

    Also when people want that 'deep threat', no one is saying get Desean Jackson...  He is truly and only a deep threat.


    I think the idea is get a WR with size and speed to keep D's on their heals. 
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from neackerwitz. Show neackerwitz's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:51 PM EST

    All I'm saying is that its a luxury to have a deep threat.  Its not the missing piece of the puzzle.  The Pats have become the team they used to beat on a consistent basis.  01 Rams, the Colts team of the past decade ( think 06 AFC championship game up 21-3), for some unfathomable reason they decide not to run out the clock when they have leads late in games.  That is the most frustrating way to watch them lose a game. Also think about the week 3 loss to Buffalo this year when they were up 21-0 and Brady throws 4 interceptions.  I dont care how boring it is to watch them run the ball and go three and out every time as long as it takes the necessary time off the clock, their going to win.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 7:56 PM EST

    Welcome back, Rusty.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 8:04 PM EST

    Brady came into the league with a weak arm and his shoulder hasn't been right for a couple of years.  If you never practiced before and you can't practice now, you're not going to get very good.  Brady will never become extremely accurate 40 yards downfield, unlike Ryan Mallett, for example.

    The only credible deep threat for the Patriots is a tall, long-armed guy who can wrestle control of the ball from a defensive back in single coverage.  Moss was perfect.  For Brady it won't be a question of some speed demon getting half a step open, of getting two steps open or of getting three steps open.  It will be a question of whether your guy can get to wherever the ball happens to come down, whether your guy can hip-check the defender into the lower stands or at least can body the guy out of the play, and whether your guy can slap the ball away if the defender has position.  Somebody with these skills would be a touchdown machine.

    Would you like to see a four tight end formation next year? 
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from neackerwitz. Show neackerwitz's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 8:14 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Deep Threat?:
    Brady came into the league with a weak arm and his shoulder hasn't been right for a couple of years.  If you never practiced before and you can't practice now, you're not going to get very good.  Brady will never become extremely accurate 40 yards downfield, unlike Ryan Mallett, for example. The only credible deep threat for the Patriots is a tall, long-armed guy who can wrestle control of the ball from a defensive back in single coverage.  Moss was perfect.  For Brady it won't be a question of some speed demon getting half a step open, of getting two steps open or of getting three steps open.  It will be a question of whether your guy can get to wherever the ball happens to come down, whether your guy can hip-check the defender into the lower stands or at least can body the guy out of the play, and whether your guy can slap the ball away if the defender has position.  Somebody with these skills would be a touchdown machine. Would you like to see a four tight end formation next year? 
    Posted by Paul_K


    couldnt agree more.. what I would like to see is Michael Bush in the backfield.  A new Cory Dillon, Antwoine Smith type beast who will pound other teams into submission.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dmcpatsfan. Show dmcpatsfan's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/1/2012 8:27 PM EST

    A most awesome free agency period would be getting:
    RB Michael Bush OR RB Mike Tolbert
    WR Brandon Lioyd
    WR Robert Meachem
    LB Mario Williams

    All of these guys could be gotten by the Patriots if they wanted them & letting BJGE, Chad O, Deion Branch  go along with a few other peicese of dead weight would free up enough money to do that....then go D with 3 of the 1st 4 picks....

     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/2/2012 9:02 AM EST

    I agree with the OP.

    And for some reason when I think of Lloyd,. I just dont see him coming here and blowing the top off the defense. This is a classic case of fans thinking the grass is greener. I mean, Im all for him coming here on the cheap and playing a role, but I dont think its gonna be catching 50 yard bombs.
     
    He is a crafty WR, who runs ok routes, but so does CHad, anyone know if he can read and dictate where coverage is and how to run his routes based on that?

    Anyone think he can beat man press coverage? Sure against good CB's. but very good ones like Revis and Cro'....IDK

    I just want everyone to temper what Lloyd can do here. I've watched the guy, and he makes some great akward catches,  but he is not a Burner who is gonna run past cover 2.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/2/2012 9:32 AM EST

    Since the ravens are cutting lee evans id like to see him come in.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:41 PM EST


    We need

    one badly
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/2/2012 7:01 PM EST

    Depends on what problems you want to solve. I think WR isn't as high a priority vs. DL or Secondary.

    However, if there's a choice of spending money on retaining Welker OR signing/drafting a bigger, faster WR who can work the sidelines and deep in addition to using Edelman in the slot - why not do the latter?
     

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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joel63. Show Joel63's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/2/2012 10:15 PM EST

     Speed kills.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/3/2012 8:13 AM EST

    Trading Welker would be giving up a hundred catches a season. Give Welker a fair offer maybe 18-20 for 3 years. Personally I don't want Brady throwing it down field all the time. I am of the camp we need to commit to the run more then throw it down field.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/3/2012 9:17 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Deep Threat?:
    I agree with the OP. And for some reason when I think of Lloyd,. I just dont see him coming here and blowing the top off the defense. This is a classic case of fans thinking the grass is greener. I mean, Im all for him coming here on the cheap and playing a role, but I dont think its gonna be catching 50 yard bombs.   He is a crafty WR, who runs ok routes, but so does CHad, anyone know if he can read and dictate where coverage is and how to run his routes based on that? Anyone think he can beat man press coverage? Sure against good CB's. but very good ones like Revis and Cro'....IDK I just want everyone to temper what Lloyd can do here. I've watched the guy, and he makes some great akward catches,  but he is not a Burner who is gonna run past cover 2.
    Posted by JayShizzle45

    In 2010 under McDaniels and playing a full year with a stable QB he was 2nd in 20+yrd and 40+yrd recs (23, 9) only Wallace had more (26, 10) so I would say that even though he's not a traditional deep threat he would force teams to respect his abilities and place a S deeper to prevent his big play ability.

    This coming at a cost that will most likely be much lower then a 1st and a deal in the range of C. Johnson

     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/3/2012 9:17 AM EST

    Didn't have one when the Pats were winning superbowls, don't need one now. Only reason  to have one is to satisfy the fantasy football people and the monday morning GM's that think they know better than the pro's.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/3/2012 9:51 AM EST

    Some people believe passing is the problem, we didn't pass enough in the Super Bowl to win... that's why Welker, Hernandez and Branch dropped 3 successive passes, lack of practice...
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/3/2012 10:08 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Deep Threat?:
    Didn't have one when the Pats were winning superbowls, don't need one now. Only reason  to have one is to satisfy the fantasy football people and the monday morning GM's that think they know better than the pro's.
    Posted by rtuinila


    You're absolutely right!! WE didn't have ONE deep threat when we were winning Super Bowls...we had three of them.

    Branch was ten years younger and got separation against anyone he went against (at one point he may of been the quickest wr in the entire NFL) and he had some long speed.
     
    Givens has size and good quickness to go along with that size, he may of "only" ran in the 4.5 range, but he got behind a defense and would actually catch it. There was a reason why the Titans gave him a 20 million dollar contract (and he probably would of earned it if he hadn't blown out his knee).

    David Patten got behind defenses with ease and was a very very under ratted receiver. He also was extremely quick and would take a screen pass and get an easy 10 yards with it.

    Even Bethel Johson ran a 4.3 and would stretch things once in a while. The only guy that we have with speed right now is a special teams player and our tight ends. 
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/3/2012 10:13 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Deep Threat?:
    Trading Welker would be giving up a hundred catches a season. Give Welker a fair offer maybe 18-20 for 3 years. Personally I don't want Brady throwing it down field all the time. I am of the camp we need to commit to the run more then throw it down field.
    Posted by Philskiw1

    Yup, having a legitimate, physical running attack will help Brady and the passing game much more than a deep threat.
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Deep Threat?

    posted at 3/3/2012 10:20 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Deep Threat?:
    In Response to Re: Deep Threat? : You're absolutely right!! WE didn't have ONE deep threat when we were winning Super Bowls...we had three of them. Branch was ten years younger and got separation against anyone he went against (at one point he may of been the quickest wr in the entire NFL) and he had some long speed.   Givens has size and good quickness to go along with that size, he may of "only" ran in the 4.5 range, but he got behind a defense and would actually catch it. There was a reason why the Titans gave him a 20 million dollar contract (and he probably would of earned it if he hadn't blown out his knee). David Patten got behind defenses with ease and was a very very under ratted receiver. He also was extremely quick and would take a screen pass and get an easy 10 yards with it. Even Bethel Johson ran a 4.3 and would stretch things once in a while. The only guy that we have with speed right now is a special teams player and our tight ends. 
    Posted by mthurl

    Except for B Johnson mthurl not a single receiver you mentioned was considered a deep threat.

    All of them typically worked the 5-20yrd range which is considered the short-intermediate range. Givens and Patten though were considered outside threats. I think that's the type of WR we need. A intermediate-deep range WR (10-30yrd range) who can work the sidelines. Which isn't always a burner that you hit 30+yrds down field