Defense Does Win Championships

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Rusty... let's accept it for what it is...  the team didn't get the job done.  Fingerpointing doesn't help at all.



    I agree, but ignoring reality and not accepting a simple context, in this case arguably the most injured team ever to play in a Conf Title game, makes no sense.

    I could see if the team had a lack of talent, but it just isn't true.

    That has been the premise here; that BB can't draft, develop or add some good complementary FAs, etc. It's false.

    Trolls and even you are trying to tapdance around the idea that this team was ready to surge on D this past year before the rug came out with injuries. 


    I do not think anyone is ignoring the reality, whatever reality it is, is in the eye of the poster.  It is just time to move on and focus on the present.

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    This is a sore topic on this forum.  Pats currently do not have a defense that "can" win championships, let alone hold onto a lead in a championship game.  To everyone's chagrin!



    They clearly did before all the injuries.  Arguably the best D in the AFC at the start of the year.

    'Twas a beautiful sight until it came crashing down.



    You mean weeks 1-4 when we played The Bucs, Falcons, Bills and Jets....??

    LMAO!



    I am not sure that matters. The offense sucked so bad and was basically trying to lose games.

    Remember?

    The Falcons hosted a primetime game at home.  Remember Brady fumbling QB sneaks in Buffalo and Atlanta and then blaming Wendell? lmao

    Yep. I do. 

    I don't care what offenses NE's D was facing. It was clear they had nice additions like Kelly, Talib was DPOY through Week 6 and Collins and Ryan were getting some reps, looking good.

    Have a nice day, Shizzles!



    "I am not sure that matters"

    Of course not, because it doesnt support YOUR argument.

    The offense sucked so bad and was basically trying to lose games.

    More lies that are also irrelevent.

    The Falcons hosted a primetime game at home

    Annnnd You posted this Why Exactly?  More irrelevency taking me away from the main topic. (did you major in "deflection" while attending college)

    Remember Brady fumbling QB sneaks in Buffalo and Atlanta and then blaming Wendell

    Cant be a true Rusty post without the dreaded "Brady Bash"

    I don't care what offenses NE's D was facing. It was clear they had nice additions like Kelly, Talib was DPOY through Week 6 and Collins and Ryan were getting some reps, looking good

    Translation : It doesnt matter who our Defense played as long as Talib was great for 6 weeks and I got to brag about a couple rookies.

    Is this Talib was DPOY in week 6 similar to how Brady was on pace to throw the most INTs ever in week 3??  LMAO!

    Another Day..... you know the rest. Que Babe

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    So, you're on record as saying the players who were starters on this D last year playing as well as they were with some impressive rookies like Ryan, Collins, Jones and Vellano, or evn Harmon, being back ups, who showed well behind the quality starters, has limited talent on it under contract in 2014?

    LOL!!

    Only Shizzles would be in such denial as Brady gets worse and worse every year as he gets older.

     



    Of course he does, it happens to everyone. Is this supposed to be breaking news?

    meanwhile, we don't have a backup QB that can step in nor a defense that can simply take over games. 

    What have we been doing since 2007? 

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    So, you're on record as saying the players who were starters on this D last year playing as well as they were with some impressive rookies like Ryan, Collins, Jones and Vellano, or evn Harmon, being back ups, who showed well behind the quality starters, has limited talent on it under contract in 2014?

    LOL!!

    Only Shizzles would be in such denial as Brady gets worse and worse every year as he gets older.

     



    Of course he does, it happens to everyone. Is this supposed to be breaking news?

    meanwhile, we don't have a backup QB that can step in nor a defense that can simply take over games. 

    What have we been doing since 2007? 



    So, do you want BB trading up for a QB this year in Rd 1 like a Bortles or Bridgewater and then dealing away MAllett, or stick with Mallett for more years wasting away behind the handsomely and entitled Brady?

    A little odd that Brady took less earlier in his career when he was the better QB only to take far more now and be worse, isn't it?

     



    That is too funny. If mallett had the supposed talent that you think he does, he would be starting over Brady. Fact is mallett is okay. And, he isn't being traded for a first round pick..last year or any.

    no, I don't want the pats trading up to grab a QB. However, they have to do something.extend mallet or find his replacement. 

    PI don't care how this team gets better. If it involved trading Brady and fielding a defense like seattles, with a mobile, decent young QB like seattles, I would take it. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    If you want a defense that can win championships, it all starts withe the front 4.  That is what will define your defense.

    The Patriots front 4 cannot pressure opposing QBs.  Even before the injury to Vince W., the patriots front 4 was not excellent.  Until they get a front 4 that can go out and dominate, they cannot be an elite defense.

    If you have a front 4 that can pressure - suddenly your DBs look great because they don't have to cover forever.  Now you can bump and run and pressure on opposing QB allows it.  Your LBs start looking great as well - because they only have to cover short passes off the line because the opposing QB has no time.  Your LBs start getting great blitz opportunities because your front 4 is so tough, the opponent can't account for blitzes as well.

    The Patriots front 4 is not very good right now.  The fact our DBs played as well as they did this season is a miracle.

    Chandler Jones is over rated; he was absent in the playoffs.  The rest are hurt or unproven.  The Pats need Defensive linemen. 

    Big time.

     

     

     

     

     

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    With a LB corps like Mayo, Hightower and Collins flying around next season, the front 4 only needs to stay healthy for the defense to be elite.

     

    I'll say it again, Hightower is a bigger, stronger, faster, quicker version of Spikes and he's more disciplined. Collins made a huge leap last season towards the end of the season and should make a bigger jump with a full offseason to work with. Mayo is the smartest guy on the field and tackles everything that moves. He's also the guy who tells everyone what to do so that they react faster instead of worrying about thinking too much.

     

    This defense was a top 5 unit had everyone stayed healthy and that was with a glaring hole in Gregory as the starting SS. All BB needs to do is resign Talib, resign Siliga(Should be cheap), cut and resign Wilfork and Kelly and add another pass rusher (Tuck would be cheap since he only has a few miles left and he could line up as a DT unlike Carter.) to make them terrifying.

     

    The offense needs more help than the defense. Brady HAS to, HAS TO, find a way to work on his deep ball and get the rookies to work with him like Amendola and Edelman(look at the payoff) last season. No one give me the BS about it mot being Brady's job because the kids are on a rookie contract. They don't have the cash to pay for all this. Edelman lives in Brady's neighborhood and Amendola lives in Texas. They're close to him; Dobson and Kenbrell live on the East Coast, Brady has to make the effort to work them in. The Pats also need another TE to take pressure off Gronk as well as, potentially, finding replacements for Conolly and Wendell.

    The Pats are closer than many like to believe, they're a few pieces away, but they're fixable pieces that can be had for cheap.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    This is a sore topic on this forum.  Pats currently do not have a defense that "can" win championships, let alone hold onto a lead in a championship game.  To everyone's chagrin!



    They did this year. Just the injury flu hit them hard.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to glenr's comment:

    In response to millergrnv's comment:

    We have heard that saying that offense wins games, defense wins championships and it was never more evident than in Super Bowl XLVIII was the #1 scoring defense in the Seahawks just put it on the #1 scoring offense in the Broncos. As the stat has shown, in the 5 (including this Super Bowl) Super Bowl's in which the #1 scoring offense faced the #1 scoring defense, the #1 scoring defense has won 4 of the 5 matchups as the only time the offense won was Super Bowl XXIV which involved the Broncos getting blown out 55-10 by the 49ers. No matter how much success Tom & the offense has its going to come down to that defense because if Tom and the offense has a bad game like this AFC Championship game in Denver, we see the results. Look at the defenses in the AFC West such as the Seahawks and 49ers, the Patriots are nothing close to those two defenses. At some point, this defense has to start playing like those defenses in the NFC West or its going to be the same result all over again.




    So in other words...the offense has a bad game so it's the defense's fault because they did not hold the league's highest scoring offense to more than 8 points under their average.

    Yeah that makes a ton of sense



    I never said anything about it being anyone's fault, don't over analyze what I wrote.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to glenr's comment:

    In response to millergrnv's comment:

    We have heard that saying that offense wins games, defense wins championships and it was never more evident than in Super Bowl XLVIII was the #1 scoring defense in the Seahawks just put it on the #1 scoring offense in the Broncos. As the stat has shown, in the 5 (including this Super Bowl) Super Bowl's in which the #1 scoring offense faced the #1 scoring defense, the #1 scoring defense has won 4 of the 5 matchups as the only time the offense won was Super Bowl XXIV which involved the Broncos getting blown out 55-10 by the 49ers. No matter how much success Tom & the offense has its going to come down to that defense because if Tom and the offense has a bad game like this AFC Championship game in Denver, we see the results. Look at the defenses in the AFC West such as the Seahawks and 49ers, the Patriots are nothing close to those two defenses. At some point, this defense has to start playing like those defenses in the NFC West or its going to be the same result all over again.




    So in other words...the offense has a bad game so it's the defense's fault because they did not hold the league's highest scoring offense to more than 8 points under their average.

    Yeah that makes a ton of sense



    This kid has never gotten it, Glen.   I can only imagine how many flags would fly against a BB D that clutched and grabbed receivers all day as if the new Polian rules diddn't apply to them.

    The game would take 5 hours to play and the opponent would be gifted 1st and goals on every drive.

     



    Okay, looks like I have some responses that didn't like what I wrote. Its expected that I would catch hell for writting this post.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    So, you're on record as saying the players who were starters on this D last year playing as well as they were with some impressive rookies like Ryan, Collins, Jones and Vellano, or evn Harmon, being back ups, who showed well behind the quality starters, has limited talent on it under contract in 2014?

    LOL!!

    Only Shizzles would be in such denial as Brady gets worse and worse every year as he gets older.

     



    Of course he does, it happens to everyone. Is this supposed to be breaking news?

    meanwhile, we don't have a backup QB that can step in nor a defense that can simply take over games. 

    What have we been doing since 2007? 



    So, do you want BB trading up for a QB this year in Rd 1 like a Bortles or Bridgewater and then dealing away MAllett, or stick with Mallett for more years wasting away behind the handsomely and entitled Brady?

    A little odd that Brady took less earlier in his career when he was the better QB only to take far more now and be worse, isn't it?

     



    That is too funny. If mallett had the supposed talent that you think he does, he would be starting over Brady. Fact is mallett is okay. And, he isn't being traded for a first round pick..last year or any.

    no, I don't want the pats trading up to grab a QB. However, they have to do something.extend mallet or find his replacement. 

    PI don't care how this team gets better. If it involved trading Brady and fielding a defense like seattles, with a mobile, decent young QB like seattles, I would take it. 



    We heard that same crap with Cassel. We never knew if he could play, and then he does 20 TD andd 12 INTs after not starting in almost a decade in any capacity without loaded weaponry and only Moss/Welker.

    So, we dodn't know about Mallett, but I would be shocked if he wasn't dealt. Who drafts a QB to develop him only to then think you can resign him as a back up again, without giving him a chance to be a starter somewhere else?

    BB can't deal Brady due to the cap hit, so you're just being irrational right now.

    BB would have had to have not extended Brady in 2010 and then traded him before the deadline in 2010 to have accomplished the concept of drafting Mallett in 2011 as the QB od the future.

    Irrational much, BBW?




    You phoney azz freak.

    Cassell had the same O you claimed TB was coddled with.  One was coddled and one only had 2 guys, without loaded weaponry?   THE SAME GUYS!

    Make up your freaken mind.  You swing both ways but always BB's way, always reaching around  trombony!

    Irrational and totally F'd up BBBW

    Go email Reiss, you freak!

     

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    The fact Cassel's and Brady's numbers were so close in back to back seasons is disturbing.



    not really. Cassel feasted on bad defenses for his stats and also had on of the best WRs and best slot WR playing with him.

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:



    False. NE scaled back the passing attack from 2007 to 2008 and ran more than they had in the previous last 3 seasons.

     

    Be careful, Joe. You're entering Babe/Troll Land at this point.

    Cassell didn't "feast" on anything. He hadn't played in a decade and was thrust into the lineup unexpectedly in Week 1.  He did shred Cardinals nice D however, a D that would be good enough to get to the SB in 2008.

     



    first off, I'm not entering troll land, its kind of true

     

    second, 580 throws in 2007. 520 in 2008. "scaled back"... whats that 4 or 5 throws a game? thats soooo scaled back.

    Heres the rank of each D (total yards) & (PPG) rank...  Cassel had over 250 pass yards on....

    btw it happened 6 times:

    San Fran - 13 (23)

    St. Louis - 28 (31)

    Miami - 15 (9)

    NY Jets - 16 (18)

    Arizona- 19 (28)

    Seattle- 30 (25)

    pretty bad d's

     

    those are the games here raked up the stats.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    The fact Cassel's and Brady's numbers were so close in back to back seasons is disturbing.



    not really. Cassel feasted on bad defenses for his stats and also had on of the best WRs and best slot WR playing with him.

     



    False. NE scaled back the passing attack from 2007 to 2008 and ran more than they had in the previous last 3 seasons.

    Be careful, Joe. You're entering Babe/Troll Land at this point.

    Cassell didn't "feast" on anything. He hadn't played in a decade and was thrust into the lineup unexpectedly in Week 1.  He did shred Cardinals nice D however, a D that would be good enough to get to the SB in 2008.



      Mostly same receivers.  RB's Sammy Morris, Lamont Jordan, BGJE.  WOW super backs!
    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.  They ran more why?

    Wouldn't have anything to do with the QB would it?

    They beat the Cards because they didn't come to play, in the snow.

    And that's the only play-off team they beat with those super backs.  Bwahhhhhaaaaa.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Defense Does Win Championships

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:



    Maroney had the most carries of his career in NE in 2008. That's a fact. Yes, scaled back. Anyone and their mother who watched that season saw them run more than in recent years.

    Yes. Clearly. Wise move to try to help Cassel a bit. They realized they had to do it by Week 5.

    Again, Arizona went to the SB and had a good D that year, obviously. Arizona's D was pretty good and even SFs was pretty good back then.  Jets D was improving by 2008.

    Stop trying to disparage what Cassel did in 2008. It's pathetic. The kid hadn't played in a competitive game that counted in a decade!

     



    Rusty they scaled back the throws by 4 or 5 a game. not a total change in offense.

    and there you go stating false facts again. Maroney had 28 carries in 2008. he had 190 the next season with Brady back.!!!!!

    as a team rushing:

    2007: 450 rushes for 1850 yards

    2008: 500 rushes for 2000 yards

    all as a team. like i said the difference of 50 total runs in a season is like 3 or 4 more a game. its really not a crazy change of offense at all.

    I'm not diminishing what Cassel did. I think anyone who sits under a system with TB and BB for 3 years will thrive when put in there. and thats a testament to BB's system and finding even the right backups

     
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