Defense Expectations

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Defense Expectations

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1659871-what-to-expect-from-the-new-england-patriots-defense-in-2013

     
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    Re: Defense Expectations


    Good read, who do you think will be on the bubble to not make the D?

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    That is a very good read, thanks for posting it PATSchampsSB.  I don't know which side of the ball I am more excited to see this season but I am leaning towards the defense.  So much potential talent there.  And with so many question marks on offense, could it be the year where the defense is more dominate then the offense?  I certainly could see it especially with some of the injury issues that the offense could encounter during the season. 

    It would certainly be nice to see the offense not having to score so many points to win games.

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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    Cany completely get behind the defense, they need a real DE to take pressure off Chandler because Rob Ninkovich is not the answer. He's not very good.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    Good read and thanks for posting the link PatsChampSB.

    I'm always enthusiastic at this time of year about how the Pats team will perform.  I'm with the TFB12 school - both sides of the ball indeed have a great deal of potential.  Speaking specifically to the D, as always seems to be the case, a great deal will depend on two things: 1) relative health of the players and how this plays out over the season; and 2) how the new additions develop/work out during the year. 

    I think Ebner stays if for no other reason that special teams play.  Be interesting to see what happens with Cunningham but I'm thinking he may not make the final cut.  After that I see Cole and Tarpinian as strong candidates for being cut.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    Great read... thanks for posting.

    Lots of good stuff regarding the odd or even man front approach.

    as noted they play to their personel skills and the situation.

    This year it looks as though with the types of players and skill sets they have targeted it seems they will be even more flexible with the front 7 schemes. If the secondary performs at a high level it will be fun to watch how the Pat's play D this year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    Finally! After about a week of popping in and out of the forum and not finding any thread worth reading or commenting on, this is a very good read! Thanks for posting PATSchampsSB


    "Giggedy, Giggedy!"

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    Thanks PATSChamps but ....

    IMO, a poorly written article based on .....  "has been, over the past two years, there's little that would change about this front from last season to this season" etc.

    also a lot of could be's and perhaps' etc. ...... So what's new? Even the author is unamed.  Speculation at it's best. Of course, the job of the NT is to take out the center and Wilfork does that creating the two gap double team. We know this already. Rusty needs to get a second job over there at Bleachereport and straighten that place out. This all based on draft picks that are now in T'shirts and shorts?

    Then the article has this: "This is an admittedly crude outline of what the Patriots defense could potentially look like from a positional grouping standpoint, with the caveat that this is based on practice reports and prior experience". ......also... It's Loaded with  Belichicks clips from past articles that they copied from the internet which go back 2 years. like ..... " in the lockout-shortened 2011 offseason, head coach Bill Belichick said" blah blah......... What BS.

    Goodbye 2011 and 12, hello 2013.....

    A thread of our own Defence expectations would suffice better here ......

    Have a good day.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    It's an interesting take on the state of the Pats' D.  I still think they need another DL since it's a bit of a leap of faith to rely upon a young guy with only CFL experience (Armstead).  Whether the D really improves depends on how the young guys progress (Jones, Hightower, Wilson, Bequette, Dowling, Dennard) and if some of the rookies can make a meaningful contribution.  Time wil tell if the young guys can blend with the pretty solid core of vets to really improve this defense.  On paper I like what I see, but let's hope it translates to the field.   

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    Wow, I read the comments and some fan felt slighted by the top 15 defense comment and Expects us to be top 10! Well, I hope the majority of fans here arent thinking like that. I mean Its a decent group on paper, but lets be realistic. There is a lot of versality but the defense is still young and unproven mostly. I expect moderate improvement and steady climbing as season goes on. I just like that the author mentioned Arrington being moved to the slot in week 11 which proves my point that Arrington still s*cked most of the year and his "one of the best slot CBs" discintont has to be taken into context when he only played 5 games there against the Bills, Miami,etc. More than half the season he was outside getting toasted. Selective memory and BB apologists. Lets hope Arrington earns that 4 milly this year.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Wow, I read the comments and some fan felt slighted by the top 15 defense comment and Expects us to be top 10! Well, I hope the majority of fans here arent thinking like that. I mean Its a decent group on paper, but lets be realistic. There is a lot of versality but the defense is still young and unproven mostly. I expect moderate improvement and steady climbing as season goes on. I just like that the author mentioned Arrington being moved to the slot in week 11 which proves my point that Arrington still s*cked most of the year and his "one of the best slot CBs" discintont has to be taken into context when he only played 5 games there against the Bills, Miami,etc. More than half the season he was outside getting toasted. Selective memory and BB apologists. Lets hope Arrington earns that 4 milly this year.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver



    The Pats D has been hovering around 15th best defense for the past 5 years, expecting a jump into the top ten isn't too high an expectation.  We have the most depth, talent and continuity we've had in an offseason since the early 2000's and have added explosive defenders via the draft.  To not have high expectations for the D this year is just more doom and gloom, barring injury this will be a top ten defense this year, mark it down.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    In response to Bunker Spreckles' comment:

     

    I don't see Jones as a 3-4 DE, though.   The only thing I can think of with the weight factor for Jones is more so like a McGinest, strong side elephant role, vs a 4-3 DE weakside role from him last year. Jones is long.  Get his arms up on the strong side and into the throwing lanes, etc, using his athleticism, etc.  

    In a nutshell, I think the whiny and obnoxious or unrealistic types here who did not want to be patient with BB's rebuild through the draft, will see not only a deeper and more versatile D like the old days, but one with experience working together. It was happening late last year.

    Agreed, Jones will not play 3/4 end in any scenario no matter how much weight he put on.  He'll play 3/4 outside linebacker, end in Belichick's four man front nickel package, but he won't play two gap at all.

    Ditto on the whiners...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Wow, I read the comments and some fan felt slighted by the top 15 defense comment and Expects us to be top 10! Well, I hope the majority of fans here arent thinking like that. I mean Its a decent group on paper, but lets be realistic. There is a lot of versality but the defense is still young and unproven mostly. I expect moderate improvement and steady climbing as season goes on. I just like that the author mentioned Arrington being moved to the slot in week 11 which proves my point that Arrington still s*cked most of the year and his "one of the best slot CBs" discintont has to be taken into context when he only played 5 games there against the Bills, Miami,etc. More than half the season he was outside getting toasted. Selective memory and BB apologists. Lets hope Arrington earns that 4 milly this year.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     



    The Pats D has been hovering around 15th best defense for the past 5 years, expecting a jump into the top ten isn't too high an expectation.  We have the most depth, talent and continuity we've had in an offseason since the early 2000's and have added explosive defenders via the draft.  To not have high expectations for the D this year is just more doom and gloom, barring injury this will be a top ten defense this year, mark it down.

     



    Im sorry, but I disagree. I have to be doom and gloomer cuz Im taking wait and see approach?? I can go back to every offseason the last feew years and find nice fuzzy peices like this. Im sorry If im not gonna wet my pants in June. I like what I see but there is still a lot I dont like and dont know. A.W. is a good pickup on paper but has played his whole career for another team. that could end up a disaster if he is really has lost a step. I dont want to be negative. Im just being cautious and based on years past, paper dont mean nothing. hovering at top 15??? Because of the run, but in a passing league, Id like them to maybe under 20th for a change. 3 plus years with a pass D 25th ranked or worse is not exciting.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Im sorry, but I disagree. I have to be doom and gloomer cuz Im taking wait and see approach?? I can go back to every offseason the last feew years and find nice fuzzy peices like this. Im sorry If im not gonna wet my pants in June. I like what I see but there is still a lot I dont like and dont know. A.W. is a good pickup on paper but has played his whole career for another team. that could end up a disaster if he is really has lost a step. I dont want to be negative. Im just being cautious and based on years past, paper dont mean nothing. hovering at top 15??? Because of the run, but in a passing league, Id like them to maybe under 20th for a change. 3 plus years with a pass D 25th ranked or worse is not exciting.

    In 2001 with our pass defense ranked 24th in yards allowed we won a Super Bowl.  Yards is an indicator of nothing.  Points is the measurement of success or failure in the NFL, until they start tallying scores with fantasy football stats this is truth.  

    The defense over the past 5 years has hovered around 15th in points allowed and has ranked near the top of the league in interceptions and takeaways.  The only weakness with this defense has been their inability to sack, to create pressure which will change this year with the additions of Kelly and Armstead health provided.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    Thank you all guys, we are here to share opinions, informations and knowledge.I think this will be the best defense we have in years BB might have solved the defensive puzzle, we have continuity in the secondary from what we had last year, and we added some guys via Draft to play in the secondary(Ryan, Harmon) and FA(Wilson) so we have everything to improve from last year,another factor is that Ras I downling is performing well, IF he stays healthy, he could be play in the Outside.

    The LB group its complete, now BB found his Cover LB we have a top 5 LB group this season IMO

    The defensive line is more talented than last year. Jones showed last year that he can be a monster at DE, we also aded Buchanan, I loved this pick, He has a lot of talent if he add some weight he could be a great opposite to Jones.We have Francis, and Bequette, who had a good OTAS so we have a good group at DE

    DT We have Wilfork.Kelly who is very talented and an upgrade from what we had last season. Armsteed is proposing huge expectations, let`s see what he can do.

    Let`s go Patriots!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

     

    Im sorry, but I disagree. I have to be doom and gloomer cuz Im taking wait and see approach?? I can go back to every offseason the last feew years and find nice fuzzy peices like this. Im sorry If im not gonna wet my pants in June. I like what I see but there is still a lot I dont like and dont know. A.W. is a good pickup on paper but has played his whole career for another team. that could end up a disaster if he is really has lost a step. I dont want to be negative. Im just being cautious and based on years past, paper dont mean nothing. hovering at top 15??? Because of the run, but in a passing league, Id like them to maybe under 20th for a change. 3 plus years with a pass D 25th ranked or worse is not exciting.

     

     

    In 2001 with our pass defense ranked 24th in yards allowed we won a Super Bowl.  Yards is an indicator of nothing.  Points is the measurement of success or failure in the NFL, until they start tallying scores with fantasy football stats this is truth.  

    The defense over the past 5 years has hovered around 15th in points allowed and has ranked near the top of the league in interceptions and takeaways.  The only weakness with this defense has been their inability to sack, to create pressure which will change this year with the additions of Kelly and Armstead health provided.




    This may be true, but you have to factor in also that in 2001,we were a much more balanced offense that could get away with it because they controlled clock with runs. You seem to point out that the only weakness on our D is pass rush and I agree but there is more to it than that.  Sure, points allowed is the Key right, but lets say your defense gives up 800 yards passing but because of redzone stops, they only allow FG's so they attempted 8 FG's and made 6. They score 18 points, no big deal right. BUT, What do you expect your offense to score with 6 minutes T.O.P.??  In this scenario, they lost 18-10, because of lack of posessions and time for offense to operate. I mean, we lost a SB directly because of this so YES , Yards allowed are very important. You dont think its a Big deal that our D couldnt produce ONE 3 and out in the SB and allowed several long drives??? Doesnt matter what happened as long as TFB is on the sideline, HE cant score. Rusty is still struggling with this concept, please show yourself to be smarter than that. Truth is , you can choose to positive, negative, hopefull, doomful, etc, but this offseason is no different for me defensively. MOst players returning and a few new guys coming in, yea so, whats that mean,. This happens every year, but you want to to belive THIS year is it because of Kelly, and Armstead!?!?  LMAO!  Cmon man, you would have done better to say A.W., Our Front seven has been ok, we just have been lacking a WHole complete unit that is Very Good. So A.W. should be difference maker, not some CFL guy. I'll wait and see and temper my excitement and remain hopefull till I attend camp and can see for myself how it shapes out. remember how excited fans were for the BIg Nickle with V.Green, Milloy and Tebucky?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

    Thank you all guys, we are here to share opinions, informations and knowledge.I think this will be the best defense we have in years BB might have solved the defensive puzzle, we have continuity in the secondary from what we had last year, and we added some guys via Draft to play in the secondary(Ryan, Harmon) and FA(Wilson) so we have everything to improve from last year,another factor is that Ras I downling is performing well, IF he stays healthy, he could be play in the Outside.

    The LB group its complete, now BB found his Cover LB we have a top 5 LB group this season IMO

    The defensive line is more talented than last year. Jones showed last year that he can be a monster at DE, we also aded Buchanan, I loved this pick, He has a lot of talent if he add some weight he could be a great opposite to Jones.We have Francis, and Bequette, who had a good OTAS so we have a good group at DE

    DT We have Wilfork.Kelly who is very talented and an upgrade from what we had last season. Armsteed is proposing huge expectations, let`s see what he can do.

    Let`s go Patriots!




    There is nothing wrong with being hopeful and being excited too. I am excited just for Adrian Wilson being here. I cant excited about CFL guys I have no info on and havent played in the league. IN terms of M.Buchanan, Bequette,etc. They have to show me, sorry. We have guys like this in every year. What about Markell, the guy who was given a raise, everyone thought he would step up and he was cut. So, I just temper my excitement a bit, But you should be excited. I will say, hopfeully the continuity is big. Every year we have new guys in the secondary so maybe thats a plus this year. Ras I is a big question mark to me, but I would like him to contribute. Our LB corps looks to same as last year to me....BIg, good tacklers but not so good in coverage so we shall see, but I dont know how you grade out a LB crew but we should be pretty good.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations


    They might sign somebody yet, which comes out of Left Field. Abraham?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:


    They might sign somebody yet, which comes out of Left Field. Abraham?



    I see additions/subtractions at the time of training camp cuts.  BB has always viewed other teams' cuts as a resource if, for no other purpose than depth.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Defense Expectations

    The Chris Brown article on Grantland is far better, and much more in depth. Go to that as a source. 

    Ultimately what BB has put together is a kind of Fairbanks-Bullough 43. Here is why, and why I expect more of it. 

    The article in Grantland is basically what I was laying out two summers ago in August. BB was really candid in a short QA session about the switch (noting he ran predominant 43 fronts in the early 2000s) and also noting that although Mayo was being listed as an OLB he would still be playing between the tackles. 

    The question was .... how do you preserve Mayo as a between the tackles guy in the 43 without forcing him to sort through the kind of trash a traditional "read and react," "tampa" or "Miami 43" will see?

    He did this by using the same type of alignment people have used in college. What set it off from that was that BB uses far, far more two gap assignments on the front line.

    Sometimes that is just Fork, as it was in the 34 front, he would have the other guys attacking a gap upfield or reacting. Other times, I call it an "inside out" line, where he flexs the two gap assignments over and has Love and Fork on one side and has Jones and Nink on the other. It's an imbalanced line. 

    At any rate, it presents the defense with a five man front similar to a 34 defense, except four of them have their hands in the dirt.  

    The shift to the 43 under and over, presents little in the way of philosphical change. Wilfork is essentially two-gapping, with one other tackle. Before it was usually him and a 3 tech end. Sometimes he is alone in this, or they shift that off to Love (I suupose TK will do this now).

    Yeah, it's a bit lighter, but it still presents the same conservative "tackling" defense BB's fairbanks has always been (it's still the kiss of death to West Coast offenses the way it's been since the 80s: see the Texans games where they have their heads spinning). 

    Yeah, they have an extra defensive end, but when you play the over alignment it just doesn't matter because you can mix the pressure up just as efficiently as you can with a 34 front. 

    A difference between this and the old 34 and other 43 fronts that is due to change?

    I think they are going to go with less two-gap. They got rid of Love, who was a lot more like a nose tackle. For a while it was a jumbo defense ... kind of akin to the old 5-2 fronts and 46 fronts that the Ravens (and Jests) and Bears/Eagles of yore ran in that it presents two large Tackles (over 310 lbs) that are two-gap style players.

    I think bringing in TK and Armstead is telling in that neither is a pure two-gap kind of guy. TK more than Armstead.

    My guess is that they will run more 43 over/under assignments, but with slightly different personnel and more "attacking" type front end assignments.

                                Nink/Collins  :        Wilfork   :  Armstead/TK  :  Jones 

      Talib                                                                                                       Dennard

                                               Mayo                 Hightower/Spikes        HTWR/Collins       

                             DMC                                               Wilson/Wilson/Harmon

    That's as a base set for the majority of downs they aren't forced into some kind of nickle setup.  It keeps Mayo "protected" and allows the bigger guys like Hightower and Spikes to engage. It allows BB to keep Jones with his hand in the ground where is he better suited, but gives him the flexibility to use the Fairbanks-Bullough concepts of disguising where the pressure is coming from without resorting to blitzes (6 or more rushers) by using traditional 43 zone-exchanges. We saw BB do this in flashes where he moved Wilfork around the front like a wild-card. I think we'll see more. 

    BB used to do something exactly like this with McGinest when he first came here and they didn't have the big pieces like Seymour AND Ty Warren. Running a traditional 34 front like the Fairbanks is a bit of a luxury. You really need the pieces. 

    But ... as BB is showing people ... you can apply its systemic tendencies and capacities to a 43 and "fake it." It's still confusing to QBs, it's still fundamentally conservative, and it still tries to keep one of it's LBers that play "between the tackles" (in this case the MLB and either the SAM or WILL depending on whether they are over or under) jersey's clean like a Fairbanks 34 likes to do. 

     
     
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