Defensive Base against Colts?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Defensive Base against Colts?

    I think most Pats fans agree that Tom will put points up on the Colt's injured Defense tomorrow. The key to victory obviously falls on BB and Dean Pees to come up with a game plan to shut down Manning and the offense. We all agree on this I would assume. So the question I ask you is this what is the "base" package they come up with? Manning likes to hurry to the line which limits the D's substitutions so fielding a unit on the initial play of each drive is key.

    I personally like a Nickel hybrid type of package that can shift from 4 DL and 2 LBs to 3 DL and 3LB.

    The personnel I like are:
     
    Vince and Pryor at DT, Wright and TBC at DE
    Mayo and Guyton at LB
    McGowan the "Rover" (not sure on the name of a Safety who plays the hybrid LB Butler and Bodden as starting CBs
    Merriweather and Chung as Safeties.

    TBC obviously is the DE who can stand up when needed. Pryor whould shift outside to DE in this case. I think this is the best way to get pressure after Manning without giving up too much against the run.

    Anyone want to blast my defensive Game Plan? Anyone, other than Bill himself, have a better idea?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    That's not a bad plan.  Mine would be slightly different:

    I would use a dime package on virtually every play of the game, with  varying personnel based on the situation.  On early downs, I would have Wilfork and Wright at tackle, Warren and TBC at end, Mayo as the lone linebacker, McGowan as a hybrid lb/s, Bodden, Butler, and Wilhite at corner, and Meriweather and Chung at safety. TBC can move around either standing up or with his hand down, depending on the situation.

    On 3rd down, I would take Warren off the field and add either Guyton or Adalius Thomas.  That way, there is more flexibility on 3rd down for a pass rush, and help on Dallas Clark by an extra linebacker.  Also, in 3rd and long situations, Wilfork can come off for Pryor.  TBC stays on as an edge rusher.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    I like the idea of having that much speed on the field to combat the passing game, but I think we mustn't forget about the run. Having Guyton on the field still brings a lot of speed and good size against the run and pass. He can possibly help McGowan in the passing game against Dallas Clark as well. Also, remember the Colt's hurry to the line a lot not necessarily a no huddle but not far off of it. Manning likes to have a lot of time at the line to change plays and figure out defenses. So you might not be able to just take Warren off the field and add Guyton or Thomas.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    The Simple 34 defense they always use against the Colts.



                               Warren              Wilfork                Wright
                 
               Thomas                   Mayo                 Guyton                Banta-Cain
    Springs                                                                                        Bodden

                              McGowan                                     Meriweather

    Shawn Springs always gets the start against the big game WRs like Wayne. He started against White, Marshall.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    You are right that at times the personnel will be dictated by the Colt's hurry up offense.  They do huddle plenty of times as well though, so there will be opportunities to switch personnel.  In terms of Guyton, I would love to have him on the field more, he's a really good player.  I just think that when its the Colts, a defensive back is more valuable than an extra linebacker.  I wouldn't feel completely comfortable with just 2 corners on the field in a passing situation.

    So to me, it comes down to Guyton vs. Wilhite.  With Wayne, Garcon, and Collie on the field together, all who possess either speed or quickness, I'll take the corner, and let Joseph Addai try to beat me.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    49Patriots, good personnel, but I don't see a base 3-4 being used more than 10-20% of the time tomorrow.  Too many passing weapons.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    49Pat They haven't used a "Simple 34" for 2 or 3 years against the Colts. And with the rules favoring WR and the passing game the 34 Defense against the Colts doesn't seem to cut it.

    Pyegian, after reading your posts I like your style more and more. That is running the ball and stopping the run does not win football games anymore. However we cannot completely forget about it. I understand your point with the two pure CBs on the field is not a good idea. My "package" has three safeties, however. These safeties are not safeties from 10 years ago or even 5 years ago, that play the run. These guys can cover, Merriweather in particular is a very good slot corner and has played there a fair bit the last couple of years.

    I think having Guyton on the field with Mayo is good business. This will give Bill a few more options and not just against the run. Guyton has pretty good coverage skills and has the speed to keep up with Clark. He could give McGowan a break at times covering Clark and allow McGowan to blitz at times.

    I mean I think it all starts up front naturally with pass rush. That is why I had Warren with his ankle injury, taking a backseat to Wright and Pryor. Stout as he is against the run his rush does not seem to be as good as Wright's or Pryor's. He would however be the first sub in for the DL.

    I would also have Thomas be the fist guy in for TBC, not Burgess who looks like he has gotten more of a push as of late but seems like a bust for the 3rd and 5th round picks given up. Don't really know what the deal with Thomas is, highest paid defensive player and looks invisible out there every week. I know he had very good success covering Clark when he played for Baltimore though, holding him to two catches I think.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    Also, Wilhite has been absent from practice due to illness. High fever and up all night with nausea. Heard that he was feeling a little better and expects to play but normally after that kind of illness you come out a few pounds lighter and your stamina isn't quite there.

    To go against 49Pat again, Springs has looked average at best this year. He snap count has been in a steady decline each week. Wilhite should be watched carefully to see how he is doing during the game. How he comes back from the flu should dictate how much playing time he gets.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgc2. Show jgc2's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    As Maritime said,  "I mean I think it all starts up front naturally with pass rush. "  End of story.  You try to run with the receivers and tight ends and you're dead.  You guys propose terrific schemes, and understand the game's science better than I do, but in the end there's only one chance, and it's to do what the Giants did in February '08 during the biggest choke of all sports history.  (Well, maybe second-biggest choke, after the '04 Yankees.)
    I'll be tivo'ing this thing, in case it's the one-in-a-hundred chance where the Pats pull it off, then I can enjoy it Monday night.
    But most probably it's going to be yet another Colts coronation. I won't be able to stomach the crowd, the waving blue, the fawning of Al and Chris, and the ass-kicking I suspect is coming.  Even in the high-scoring offense of 2007, we barely squeaked past Indy mid-season.  I'm tired of losing to them, over and over, the past five years.   Since the glory days, BB hasn't had a clue how to beat them.
    And I have nightmares that they will do what we failed to do -- run the table at 19-0. 
    If the chicken refs (who showered Colts opponents with yellow flags at the RCA dome) are still afraid to allow real football jamming at Lucas Stadium, it's going to be ugly for the Pats.
     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    Maritime, good points.  I think there are a number of personnel combinations that could be used effectively in this game, and hopefully they change them up to keep Manning guessing a bit.  I think we both agree that the normal 4 defensive backs isn't going to cut it in this game.  Having Meriweather, McGowan, and Chung on the field at the same time is really dynamic and exciting to me.  Whether they play with 2 corners or 3, the pass rush is important. 

    Even though the pass rush is important, if it were me, I wouldn't blitz much if at all in this game.  The Colts do a terrific job in protection, and blitzing is a huge risk if you don't get to Manning.  He will kill you if that happens.  I'd rush the standard 4, sometimes even 3, and hope those guys (TBC, Wright, Pryor, Burgess) can get to Manning.  Maybe mix in a Chung blitz every now and then.

    This game is all about Manning and the passing game.  If Addai beats you, tip your cap and move on.  Going to be exciting, I can't wait.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    Agree whole-heartedly about not really blitzing. Chances are your are not going to get to Manning anyway. I like the idea of blitzing the safeties Chung, and the BM's (Bowel Movements, has anybody noticed that yet?) but not often. You have to pick your spots definitely. It is crazy how safety play nowadays is becoming more the heart of your defense. It seems all the best D's have elite safeties. Anyway, I think the DBs need to man up and jam all receivers and TEs at the line to throw off the timing. This helps the pass rush, and has to keep the offense on its toes. Hopefully, McGowan or whoever is covering Clark does a good job. Containing Clark is how you slow down the Colts Offense.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    Think Burgess sees much time tomorrow or does he take a backseat? I'd like to see Thomas take on his role as a hybrid DE/LB more and phase Burgess out. Thomas has the size at 270lbs and the speed to 4.5s 40 to play the run and pass. In fact wasn't it his pass rushing skills what we coveted along with versatility when he came from Baltimore? Have kind of wondered why we haven't seen more of this lately.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PuntonFirstDown. Show PuntonFirstDown's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    4-2-5 defense like BB had in 07. Anything is possible. Warren and Wilfork in the middle and Thomas and Pryor on the end with Mayo/Guyton. Pryor and TBC could come off the ends with speed/power combo. If the Pats can manage to get out to a sizeable lead, a 1-5-5 is possible (reference when BB was Giants DC in Superbowl vs Bill when he had a small defense that inticed the Bills away from the pass). At least one player has to be fast enough to get to Manning at all times, before he has a the opportunity to make ideal passes. Its got to copordinated between pressing the receivers and get to Manning from the edges. Those are my rough ideas.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    Definitely the nickel like BB has been using lately.  Something like this:

                               Sanders
                                                  Merriweather

                        Guyton       Mayo                   McGowan
    Bodden                                                                     Butler                            
                      TBC    Wright     Wilfork    Warren
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    In Response to Re: Defensive Base against Colts?:
    [QUOTE]Definitely the nickel like BB has been using lately.  Something like this:                            Sanders                                               Merriweather                     Guyton       Mayo                   McGowan Bodden                                                                     Butler                                               TBC    Wright     Wilfork    Warren
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    Think Sanders with his injury will get the nod over Chung. I kind of thought Chung has come on quite nicely as of late. If Sanders' groin is feeling ok maybe Bill ups him to third on the depth chart to get a little more experience on the field against Manning. Suppose that is never a bad idea.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    The Colts are hoping to have a running back return to the lineup.  If he does return, expect rust. 

    That's the reason BB won't go to the big dime, with three CBs, 2 safeties, one hybrid named Brandon McGowan, two true linebackers, two defensive ends and one nose tackle, at least not until third and 10. 

    The other defensive problem, and it's a big problem when the Patriots are defending well inside their own 30 or within Indy's 10, is that players have to race to the 30 yard line to officially get out of bounds.  BB has to balance keeping a constant defense on the field versus subbing in packages for third and 10, versus blowing a timeout.  Manning can call a quick snap anytime to try and earn Indy a cheap 5 yard penalty.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Defensive Base against Colts?

    Paul, confused by your post? Indy's run game will have rust, so we shouldn't employ a dime package because it is not good against the run? Wouldn't that favor the matchup.

    What base D do you think is best? Who do you have at each spot?

     
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