Defensive performance a bit overrated

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    In Response to Defensive performance a bit overrated:
    [QUOTE]the defense hung in their and battled, but in the end they have got to do a better job than this.  losing had just as much to do with them as it did with the offense.  new york giants offensive drives 10 plays, 6:00, 35 yards, 3 first downs, punt 9 plays, 5:28, 78 yards, 4 first downs, touchdown 8 plays, 3:48, 39 yards, 2 first downs punt 7 plays, 4:21, 2 first downs, 22 yards halftime 10 plays, 4:37, 45 yards, 3 first downs, FG 9 plays, 5:01, 33 yards, 3 first downs, FG 10 plays, 4:53, 3 first downs, 49 yards, punt 9 plays, 2:49, 88 yards, 4 first downs, TD i'm not absolving anyone else of blame (offense/coaching), but even after the brady pick, the defense didn't do the O a lot of favors.  ninkovich jumps offsides, and allows the giants to change field position (eventually punting from midfield, instead of the 10).  after the safety, the pats only had 8 possessions.  that's a poor job by the defense.
    Posted by dennisrbaker[/QUOTE]

    do we have the Pats numbers?

    In order toi judge the efficiency of the Offenses and Defenenes against season game stats. maybe we should be adjusting based upon # of possseions?

    in the end
    Our O couldn't stay on teh field and the D couldn't get us off
    = but
    the Odidn't seem to be great - but then again Gronk at 50%
    ?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated : NO, what lost the game was a stoopid safety, and underthrown ball to Gronk, and a pass a little high for Wes to catch. the three miscues cost us points. oh, the defense having twelve men on the field cost us points too-i blame the coaches for 12 men on the field.
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

    This 100% accurate.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from joerock22. Show joerock22's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    People have to defend the defense because they've been doing it all season.  The bottom line is that the defense had a chance to win the game (just like Eli and the Giants offense did) and failed.  That's the major difference between the Pats won and lost superbowls.  The defense used to be able to win games.  Now they can't. 

    Yes, this was totally a team loss, but to gloss over the defense's performance by saying they were better than expected or held the Giants to a good point total is just stupid.  On the crucial drive, the defense fell flat on their faces.  Enough said. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    Ok, so the D did plenty to give the Pats a chance to win.   But, the Giants started at their own 12 with about 3 minutes to go and ONE timeout!  The D had previously stopped them and forced punts their last two possessions.  You would have expected them to mount the pressure and stop the Giants again!  Manning was not pressured ONCE during that last drive, the D gives up the longest play of the game, the 38 yard pass to Manningham, and the Giants ran for a couple more first downs to run out some clock time and ran the ball in for the go ahead TD. Yeah, the Pats let them, apparently, because they weren't going to stop them from going ahead anyway!  Just like in SB42, the D had the chance to stop the Giants from completing a long drive to win the game.  The Pats D did not bend, they broke at the WRONG time!  Game, set, match!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated : The defense allowed two FGs in the second half, turning the keys over to Brady and Co, late. Brady tossed a pick and then the Welker drop killed that last drive to seal it. Either way, it's too many passes!!
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
    This is where I disagree with you. Those drives that left led to FGs were not good defense. They took lots time of the clock and ended in points. The Giants shortest drive (in terms of clock time) of the game was the TD to end it. The Giants wanted to slow the game down.

    You are missing the point of the Giants gameplan. The Giants did not only score 19 points on offense because the Patriots played great defense. They wanted a low scoring game. They wanted to run time of the clock, limited the number of possessions the Patriots had, and win the battle of field position. To stop that the defense needs some 3-and-outs, of which it produced zero.

    Look at game logs from Patriots wins. How many offensive postions do the Patriots get (in the previous two playoff games this year they had 12 and 11). The game was in the teens because the Giants wanted a low scoring game.

    I think a lot of the blame goes on the shoulder of BB. This is the third time that Coughlin has done the same thing to a "high-powered" Patriots offense. BB has yet to figure out how to counter it. He has not managed to turn it into a shoot-out (which is what the Patriots are best at), and Coughlin has used the fact that the Pats give up yards and FGs against them.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated : This is where I disagree with you. Those drives that left led to FGs were not good defense. They took lots time of the clock and ended in points. The Giants shortest drive (in terms of clock time) of the game was the TD to end it. The Giants wanted to slow the game down. You are missing the point of the Giants gameplan. The Giants did not only score 19 points on offense because the Patriots played great defense. They wanted a low scoring game. They wanted to run time of the clock, limited the number of possessions the Patriots had, and win the battle of field position. To stop that the defense needs some 3-and-outs, of which it produced zero. Look at game logs from Patriots wins. How many offensive postions do the Patriots get (in the previous two playoff games this year they had 12 and 11). The game was in the teens because the Giants wanted a low scoring game. I think a lot of the blame goes on the shoulder of BB. This is the third time that Coughlin has done the same thing to a "high-powered" Patriots offense. BB has yet to figure out how to counter it. He has not managed to turn it into a shoot-out (which is what the Patriots are best at), and Coughlin has used the fact that the Pats give up yards and FGs against them.
    Posted by FrnkBnhm[/QUOTE]

    Another smart post.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    FrnkBnhm..   BB hasn't figured out how to get the Patriots D to get the OTHER team OFF the field quickly enough!  That is the Achilles heel of a "bend and don't break" D.. they give up yards and clock to the opponent and the Giants planned on that to win!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Moss07. Show Brady2Moss07's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    Why do the corners play so soft. They should have played tight and challenged the giants was at the line of scrimmage. We just let them march down the field because we were scared to give up the big play
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dennisrbaker. Show dennisrbaker's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated


    "to the people saying the brady pic was like a punt....it was FIRST DOWN!!"


    of course.  but from a defensive perspective, it was the same as a punt. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    I've got to defend Russ here - throughout the playoffs, the defense played better than there regular season average based on points given up.  During the Reg Season (against lesser opponents) the pats gave up 21+ pts per game.  Throughout the playoffs they were under that, and they were under that in the SB. 

    It may not have been perfect, but if we look at expected performances, the defense did their job.  And don't forget, Belichick ordered the TD to put the ball back in the offenses hands.  Had he not done that, they could have possibly held for a FG. 

    The safety was a key to the game.  If it didn't happen, the giants are down 4 and required to score a TD to get the lead.  And even if they do, the pats are only down 3.  Having to drive 50 yds for a FG opp is significantly less pressure than needing to go 80 for a TD. 
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    The defense played better than they did all year.  That is what you want from a championship team.  They created turnover situations but the Giants were more fortunate than the Pats.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated : NO, what lost the game was a stoopid safety, and underthrown ball to Gronk, and a pass a little high for Wes to catch. the three miscues cost us points. oh, the defense having twelve men on the field cost us points too-i blame the coaches for 12 men on the field.
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

    If the D had stopped the Giants on their last possession would we have won? Case closed.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    The Defense held them to 19 points.  They played well enough.

    Going into the game, no one would have thought that the Pats would lose if the Defense gave up only 19 points.  And mind you, that included the Giants starting the game with 2 possessions.

    Yes, the Defense made some mistakes.  The 12 men on the field nullifying the fumble recovery and the offside on 3rd and long, but they played well enough for the Pats to win.

    The Pats made one mistake too many.  They didn't have to be perfect, but they had to come close.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    The defense played better than their regular season average based on point allowed.  The offense did not.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    My take.  BB is using this bend don't break defense strategy because he knows he doesnt have the talent on Defense to play a style like Pitts or Baltimore.  Now alot of that is BB and whoever drafts because they have failed alot in picking defensive players.  So he is using a game plan that gives them the best chance to win.

    The basic problem with this defense as we have seen, is that if you are bend and break, when you need to make that final stop in a game you can't.  It requires your offense to run out the clock or get the team up by more then a touchdown down the stretch.

    I mean the plan was working to perfection with 4 mins to go.  The D had only given up 13 points.  If Brady and the offense runs out the clock we are all talking about what a great defense plan they had. 

    Perfect example is GB, ranked right with the Pats at the bottom of the defensive rankings, they played the Giants in an aggressive style and gave up 38 points.  BB knew he had to contain the Giants and make them move slowly down the field and then tighten up in the red zone.  The Pats are not a team full of play makers, they have to be creative.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dennisrbaker. Show dennisrbaker's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    letting an opposing offense hold the ball for 37 minutes is not good defense, no matter how to try to spin it.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated:
    [QUOTE]They haven't, "failed" moron. You don't pluck Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, Samuel, McGinest, Vrabel, Seau, Ty Law, etc, out of thin air in 2 years. MORON If they had repeat top 10 picks and there was no cap, you'd have a leg to stand on, but we know you're a moron, so you have no legs. The ONLY thing you said that is accurate is how the Pats D had a great gameplan. Maybe someday before BB and Brady leave, we'll see one lead back actually get somewere near 20 carries in a game like this, so it doesn't appear the "blew" the game or "has no talent". MORONS.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    Rusty list all the Defensive players since 2007 and do a hit and miss to see if they failed.  If you don't understand that yet, you are beyond help. 

    The they don't pick in the top 10 each year is a truly lame excuse as there are plently of quality players available outside the top 10.  Since 2007, on the defensive side, they have failed (overall).  That's just reality and that lack of talent on defense is why we are seeing edlman playing DB and a bend-don't-break defense.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated

    In Response to Re: Defensive performance a bit overrated:
    [QUOTE]letting an opposing offense hold the ball for 37 minutes is not good defense, no matter how to try to spin it.
    Posted by dennisrbaker[/QUOTE]

    I don't care if you call it great, awful or anything in between.  What you want is a plan that gives your team a chance to win in the end.  Giving up only 13 points (not counting the safety on the D) with 4 mins to go, the ball and the lead.  Everything was there if they just executed down the stretch (i.e. catch the dam ball).
     
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