DeSean Jackson?

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    Re: DeSean Jackson?

    In Response to Re: DeSean Jackson?:
    I'm not saying BB hasn't made some smart moves and that he's not a good coach and as good a talent evaluator as any other HC. My beef is it seems to me that the players who become play makers for this team on defense are the ones that were high picks. Here are the first round draft picks since 2000; notice how the high picks (1-15) are stud performers and the rest is a mixed bag. My point is go after high draft picks for more certainty of talent. I think you can find good value in the lineman later in the first round but none of the skill positions.
    2001 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia  
    2002 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado [29]
    2003 13 Ty Warren DT Texas A&M [30]
    2004 21 Vince Wilfork DT Miami (FL) [31]
    32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia  
    2005 32 Logan Mankins OG Fresno State  
    2006 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota  
    2007 24 Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL) [32]
    2008 10 Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee [33]
    2009 No first-round draft pick [34]
    2010 27 Devin McCourty CB Rutgers [35]
    2011 17 Nate Solder OT Colorado

    More picks:
    2 Adrian Klemm, OL, Hawaii
    3 J.R. Redmond, RB, Arizona State
    2 Matt Light, OT, Purdue
    3 Brock Williams, CB, Notre Dame
    2 Deion Branch, WR, Louisville
    4 Rohan Davey, QB, Louisiana State
    2 Eugene Wilson, FS, Illinois
    2 Bethel Johnson, WR, Texas A&M
    2 Marquise Hill, DL, Louisiana State
    3 Guss Scott, FS, Florida
    3 Ellis Hobbs, CB, Iowa State
    3 Nick Kaczur, OL, Toledo
    2 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
    3 Dave Thomas, TE, Texas
    4 Kareem Brown, DL, Miami (Fla.)
    2 Terrence Wheatley, CB, Colorado
    3a Shawn Crable, OLB, Michigan
    3b Kevin O’Connell, QB, San Diego State
    2a Pat Chung, SS, Oregon
    2b Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
    2c Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut
    2d Sebastian Vollmer, OL, Houston
    3a Brandon Tate, WR, North Carolina
    3b Tyrone McKenzie, LB, South Florida
    4 Rich Ohrnberger, OL, Penn State
    2nd Round (42nd Overall) – Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona
    2nd Round (53rd Overall) – Jermaine Cunningham, OLB, Florida
    2nd Round (62nd Overall) – Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida
    3rd Round (90th Overall) – Taylor Price, WR, Ohio
    4th Round (113th Overall) – Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida
    5th Round (150th Overall) – Zoltan Mesko, P, Michigan
    1st Round – Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
    2nd Round – Ras-I Dowling, DB, Virginia
    2nd Round – Shane Vereen, RB, Cal
    3rd Round – Stevan Ridley, RB, LSU
    3rd Round – Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas
    5th Round – Marcus Cannon, OL, TCU

    Here is a list of the FA additions and subtractions; an overwhelming array of awesomeness.

    2008 Additions:

    WR Sam Aiken FA
    WR Robert Ortiz FA
    TE Marcus Pollard FA
    T/G Lav Bauta FA
    T Anthony Clement FA
    G/T Jimmy Martin FA
    G/C Gene Mruczkowski FA
    DE/NT Titus Adams FA
    NT Steve Fifita FA
    DE/NT Kenny Smith FA
    ILB Victor Hobson FA
    CB Fernando Bryant FA
    CB Lewis Sanders FA
    CB Jason Webster FA
    SS/ILB Tank Williams FA
    T/G Oliver Ross FA
    RB Lamont Jordan FA
    T Mark LeVoir WAIVERS
    CB Deltha O’Neal FA
    T/G Barry Stokes FA
    G/T Jacob Bender FA

    2009 Additions:

    RB Fred Taylor FA
    WR Joey Galloway FA
    WR Greg Lewis TRADE
    TE Chris Baker FA
    TE Alex Smith TRADE
    C Al Johnson FA
    DE/OLB Tully Banta-Cain FA
    DT Steve Williams FA
    ILB Vinny Ciurciu FA
    OLB Paris Lenon FA
    CB Leigh Bodden FA
    FS Herana-Daze Jones FA
    FS Brandon McGowan FA
    LS Nathan Hodel FA
    CB Shawn Springs FA
    TE Michael Matthews TRADE
    G Kendall Simmons FA
    DE/OLB Derrick Burgess TRADE
    OLB/DE Rob Ninkovich FA
    RB Chris Taylor FA
    QB/WR Isaiah Stanback FA

    2010 Additions:

    RB Thomas Clayton FA
    WR Torry Holt FA
    WR David Patten FA
    TE Alge Crumpler FA
    DE Damione Lewis FA
    OLB Marques Murrell FA
    ILB Tracy White TRADE
    SS Jarrad Page TRADE
    SS Josh Barrett WAIVERS
    T/G Quinn Ojinnaka TRADE
    CB Tony Carter FA

    2011 Additions (Non-rookie players signed or traded for before Week 1 of the regular season):

    DE Marcus Stroud FA
    WR Tyree Barnes FA
    RB Eric Kettani FA
    WR Chad Ochocino (Trade)
    DL Albert Haynesworth (Trade)
    DL Steve Williams FA
    OL Chris Morris FA
    OL Jonathan Compas FA
    DE Mark Anderson FA
    DE Andre Carter FA
    DE Shaun Ellis FA
    LB Niko Koutouvides FA
    S James Ihedigbo FA
    LB Ricky Brown FA
    TE Garrett Mills FA
    WR Tiquan Underwood FA
    LS James Dearth FA
    CB Antwaun Molden (Waivers)
    OG Brian Waters FA
    OL Matt Kopa FA
    OL Nick McDonald FA
    OL Thomas Welch FA
    LB A.J. Edds FA
    TE Dan Gronkowski FA

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: DeSean Jackson?

    In Response to Re: DeSean Jackson?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: DeSean Jackson? : I'm not saying BB hasn't made some smart moves and that he's not a good coach and as good a talent evaluator as any other HC. My beef is it seems to me that the players who become play makers for this team on defense are the ones that were high picks. Here are the first round draft picks since 2000; notice how the high picks (1-15) are stud performers and the rest is a mixed bag. My point is go after high draft picks for more certainty of talent . I think you can find good value in the lineman later in the first round but none of the skill positions. 2001 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia   2002 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado [ 29 ] 2003 13 Ty Warren DT Texas A&M [ 30 ] 2004 21 Vince Wilfork DT Miami (FL) [ 31 ] 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia   2005 32 Logan Mankins OG Fresno State   2006 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota   2007 24 Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL) [ 32 ] 2008 10 Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee [ 33 ] 2009 No first-round draft pick [ 34 ] 2010 27 Devin McCourty CB Rutgers [ 35 ] 2011 17 Nate Solder OT Colorado More picks: 2 Adrian Klemm, OL, Hawaii 3 J.R. Redmond, RB, Arizona State 2 Matt Light, OT, Purdue 3 Brock Williams, CB, Notre Dame 2 Deion Branch, WR, Louisville 4 Rohan Davey, QB, Louisiana State 2 Eugene Wilson, FS, Illinois 2 Bethel Johnson, WR, Texas A&M 2 Marquise Hill, DL, Louisiana State 3 Guss Scott, FS, Florida 3 Ellis Hobbs, CB, Iowa State 3 Nick Kaczur, OL, Toledo 2 Chad Jackson, WR, Florida 3 Dave Thomas, TE, Texas 4 Kareem Brown, DL, Miami (Fla.) 2 Terrence Wheatley, CB, Colorado 3a Shawn Crable, OLB, Michigan 3b Kevin O’Connell, QB, San Diego State 2a Pat Chung , SS, Oregon 2b Ron Brace , DT, Boston College 2c Darius Butler , CB, Connecticut 2d Sebastian Vollmer , OL, Houston 3a Brandon Tate , WR, North Carolina 3b Tyrone McKenzie , LB, South Florida 4 Rich Ohrnberger , OL, Penn State 2nd Round (42nd Overall) – Rob Gronkowski , TE, Arizona 2nd Round (53rd Overall) – Jermaine Cunningham , OLB, Florida 2nd Round (62nd Overall) – Brandon Spikes , LB, Florida 3rd Round (90th Overall) – Taylor Price , WR, Ohio 4th Round (113th Overall) – Aaron Hernandez , TE, Florida 5th Round (150th Overall) – Zoltan Mesko , P, Michigan 1st Round – Nate Solder, OT, Colorado 2nd Round – Ras-I Dowling, DB, Virginia 2nd Round – Shane Vereen, RB, Cal 3rd Round – Stevan Ridley, RB, LSU 3rd Round – Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas 5th Round – Marcus Cannon, OL, TCU Here is a list of the FA additions and subtractions; an overwhelming array of awesomeness. 2008 Additions: WR Sam Aiken FA WR Robert Ortiz FA TE Marcus Pollard FA T/G Lav Bauta FA T Anthony Clement FA G/T Jimmy Martin FA G/C Gene Mruczkowski FA DE/NT Titus Adams FA NT Steve Fifita FA DE/NT Kenny Smith FA ILB Victor Hobson FA CB Fernando Bryant FA CB Lewis Sanders FA CB Jason Webster FA SS/ILB Tank Williams FA T/G Oliver Ross FA RB Lamont Jordan FA T Mark LeVoir WAIVERS CB Deltha O’Neal FA T/G Barry Stokes FA G/T Jacob Bender FA 2009 Additions: RB Fred Taylor FA WR Joey Galloway FA WR Greg Lewis TRADE TE Chris Baker FA TE Alex Smith TRADE C Al Johnson FA DE/OLB Tully Banta-Cain FA DT Steve Williams FA ILB Vinny Ciurciu FA OLB Paris Lenon FA CB Leigh Bodden FA FS Herana-Daze Jones FA FS Brandon McGowan FA LS Nathan Hodel FA CB Shawn Springs FA TE Michael Matthews TRADE G Kendall Simmons FA DE/OLB Derrick Burgess TRADE OLB/DE Rob Ninkovich FA RB Chris Taylor FA QB/WR Isaiah Stanback FA 2010 Additions: RB Thomas Clayton FA WR Torry Holt FA WR David Patten FA TE Alge Crumpler FA DE Damione Lewis FA OLB Marques Murrell FA ILB Tracy White TRADE SS Jarrad Page TRADE SS Josh Barrett WAIVERS T/G Quinn Ojinnaka TRADE CB Tony Carter FA 2011 Additions (Non-rookie players signed or traded for before Week 1 of the regular season): DE Marcus Stroud FA WR Tyree Barnes FA RB Eric Kettani FA WR Chad Ochocino (Trade) DL Albert Haynesworth (Trade) DL Steve Williams FA OL Chris Morris FA OL Jonathan Compas FA DE Mark Anderson FA DE Andre Carter FA DE Shaun Ellis FA LB Niko Koutouvides FA S James Ihedigbo FA LB Ricky Brown FA TE Garrett Mills FA WR Tiquan Underwood FA LS James Dearth FA CB Antwaun Molden (Waivers) OG Brian Waters FA OL Matt Kopa FA OL Nick McDonald FA OL Thomas Welch FA LB A.J. Edds FA TE Dan Gronkowski FA
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron[/QUOTE]

         Fantasy...we're talking WRs here. Deion Branch was a second round pick in 2002. Wes Welker was acquired for a second and seventh rounder. Randy Moss was a first round pick, who the Pats stole from the Raiders for a 4th rounder. The Raiders made this deal because Moss didn't want to play in Oakland any more, and because they owed him a ton of money. Remember that ridiculous contract that Uncle Al, may he rest in peace, signed Moss to? Moss restructured his deal, and took less money, to come play for the Pats. 

         "There were rumors leading up to the 2007 NFL Draft that the Raiders were eager to part ways with Randy Moss through a trade. First-year Raiders head coach Lane Kiffin went so far as to contact the division rival Denver Broncos to "gauge interest", but the Patriots and Green Bay Packerswere the two teams most interested in acquiring Moss. Packers QB Brett Favre, who once said, "There is no one in this league who puts fear in people more than Randy Moss," tried to persuade team management to trade for him, but a deal that both sides could agree to did not get done.

         During the first day of the NFL Draft, the Patriots and Raiders discussed the trade several times before reaching an agreement. Bill Belichick spoke with Moss for the first time about the possibility of joining the Patriots at 2:30AM early Sunday Morning. Moss then boarded a plane and arrived in Boston later that morning on April 29 and was required to pass a team administered physical. 
         Once he was cleared by Patriots officials, a trade was completed that sent Randy Moss to New England in exchange for a fourth-round selection in the 2007 NFL Draft. The draft pick had been acquired by the Patriots the previous day from the San Francisco 49ers, and the Raiders selected John Bowie.

         One of the conditions of the trade was that Randy Moss would have to restructure his contract for salary cap reasons. Just hours before the Moss trade was completed, New England quarterback Tom Brady converted $5.28 million of his 2007 base salary into a signing bonus that is spread out over the remaining portion of his contract so that it could free up cap room. This enabled the Patriots to absorb Moss' incoming contract under the salary cap.
         Moss had two years remaining on his current deal and was scheduled to earn $9.75 million in 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008. Once the Patriots had Moss on their roster, he quickly agreed to a new one year contract to replace his old one. The new deal gave him a $500,000 signing bonus, a base salary of $2.5 million, and the ability to earn an additional $1.75 million in incentives. "I’m still in awe that I’m a part of this organization," Moss said, clearly thrilled to join a team that could contend for the Super Bowl and to work with Coach Belichick. "I think that he’s the kind of coach that can motivate me. He has a proven track record."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Moss

         In 2003, BB used the 45th overall pick on WR Bethel Johnson. Though Bethel had his moments for the Pats, he never met expectations as a deep threat WR.

         In 2006, BB traded his 52nd and 75th overall picks to Green Bay for the 36th overall pick, in order to take WR Chad Jackson. The Packers would use the 52nd pick acquired to select pro-bowl caliber WR Greg Jennings, at #52. This poor trade, believe or not, may have been directly responsible for costing the Pats' championships in 2006, 2010, and 2011 (assuming that Jackson had panned out...or that the Pats had selected Jennings). Could the addition of a talented WR have made the difference against Indy in the 2006 AFC title game...against the Jets in the 2010 play-offs...or against the Giants in the 2011 SB?

         In 2008, the Pats desperately started journeyman Sam Aiken at WR.
     
         In 2009, they brought in the ancient Joey Galloway.

         In 2010, they drafted Taylor Price with the 90th overall pick, and had Brandon Tate, whom they had taken in 2009 (one spot before Mike Wallace), with the 83rd overall pick, that year. The failure of these two to amount to anything, and the decline of Randy Moss led the Pats to trading a high 4th round pick for veteran WR, Deion Branch.
     
         In 2011, they failed miserably with the 33 year old Chad Ochocinco.

         So...the Pats have wasted several high draft choices through the draft in an attempt to land a deep threat WR (2003 Bethel Johnson-45th overall pick, 2006 Chad Jackson-36th overall pick, 2009 Brandon Tate-83rd overall pick, 2010 Taylor Price-90th overall pick). They also failed with relics, Galloway (age 37) in 2009, Randy Moss (at age 33), in 2010) and Ochocinco, (age 33) in 2011, respectively.

         The only success that they've had was in 2007, when they acquired a young, ascending WR named Welker, for a 2nd and 7th round pick, and a talented Moss, who, at age 30, still had plenty of good football left in him...whom they were able to steal from Oakland for a 4th rounder due to Randy's unhappiness there, and the fact that he was owed a huge amount of money.

         For these reasons, doesn't it make sense that BB might strongly consider trading a draft choice, and/or paying big money, for a proven deep threat like a Wallace, or the Jackson boys, DeSean or Vincent...than risk wasting another high draft choice on an unknown commodity at WR? Remember, Tom Brady turns 35 next season. He needs the help...NOW.  
         

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: DeSean Jackson?

    In Response to Re: DeSean Jackson?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: DeSean Jackson? :      Fantasy...we're talking WRs here. Deion Branch was a second round pick in 2002. Wes Welker was acquired for a second and seventh rounder. Randy Moss was a first round pick, who the Pats stole from the Raiders for a 4th rounder. The Raiders made this deal because Moss didn't want to play in Oakland any more, and because they owed him a ton of money. Remember that ridiculous contract that Uncle Al, may he rest in peace, signed Moss to? Moss restructured his deal, and took less money, to come play for the Pats.       "There were rumors leading up to the 2007 NFL Draft that the Raiders were eager to part ways with Randy Moss through a trade. First-year Raiders head coach Lane Kiffin went so far as to contact the division rival Denver Broncos to "gauge interest", but the Patriots and Green Bay Packers were the two teams most interested in acquiring Moss. Packers QB Brett Favre , who once said, "There is no one in this league who puts fear in people more than Randy Moss," tried to persuade team management to trade for him, but a deal that both sides could agree to did not get done.      During the first day of the NFL Draft, the Patriots and Raiders discussed the trade several times before reaching an agreement. Bill Belichick spoke with Moss for the first time about the possibility of joining the Patriots at 2:30AM early Sunday Morning. Moss then boarded a plane and arrived in Boston later that morning on April 29 and was required to pass a team administered physical.       Once he was cleared by Patriots officials, a trade was completed that sent Randy Moss to New England in exchange for a fourth-round selection in the 2007 NFL Draft . The draft pick had been acquired by the Patriots the previous day from the San Francisco 49ers , and the Raiders selected John Bowie .      One of the conditions of the trade was that Randy Moss would have to restructure his contract for salary cap reasons. Just hours before the Moss trade was completed, New England quarterback Tom Brady converted $5.28 million of his 2007 base salary into a signing bonus that is spread out over the remaining portion of his contract so that it could free up cap room. This enabled the Patriots to absorb Moss' incoming contract under the salary cap.      Moss had two years remaining on his current deal and was scheduled to earn $9.75 million in 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008. Once the Patriots had Moss on their roster, he quickly agreed to a new one year contract to replace his old one. The new deal gave him a $500,000 signing bonus, a base salary of $2.5 million, and the ability to earn an additional $1.75 million in incentives. "I’m still in awe that I’m a part of this organization," Moss said, clearly thrilled to join a team that could contend for the Super Bowl and to work with Coach Belichick . "I think that he’s the kind of coach that can motivate me. He has a proven track record." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Moss      In 2003, BB used the 45th overall pick on WR Bethel Johnson. Though Bethel had his moments for the Pats, he never met expectations as a deep threat WR.      In 2006, BB traded his 52nd and 75th overall picks to Green Bay for the 36th overall pick, in order to take WR Chad Jackson. The Packers would use the 52nd pick acquired to select pro-bowl caliber WR Greg Jennings, at #52. This poor trade, believe or not, may have been directly responsible for costing the Pats' championships in 2006, 2010, and 2011 (assuming that Jackson had panned out...or that the Pats had selected Jennings). Could the addition of a talented WR have made the difference against Indy in the 2006 AFC title game...against the Jets in the 2010 play-offs...or against the Giants in the 2011 SB?      In 2008, the Pats desperately started journeyman Sam Aiken at WR.        In 2009, they brought in the ancient Joey Galloway.      In 2010, they drafted Taylor Price with the 90th overall pick, and had Brandon Tate, whom they had taken in 2009 (one spot before Mike Wallace), with the 83rd overall pick, that year. The failure of these two to amount to anything, and the decline of Randy Moss led the Pats to trading a high 4th round pick for veteran WR, Deion Branch.        In 2011, they failed miserably with the 33 year old Chad Ochocinco.      So...the Pats have wasted several high draft choices through the draft in an attempt to land a deep threat WR (2003 Bethel Johnson-45th overall pick, 2006 Chad Jackson-36th overall pick, 2009 Brandon Tate-83rd overall pick, 2010 Taylor Price-90th overall pick). They also failed with relics, Galloway (age 37) in 2009, Randy Moss (at age 33), in 2010) and Ochocinco, (age 33) in 2011, respectively.      The only success that they've had was in 2007, when they acquired a young, ascending WR named Welker, for a 2nd and 7th round pick, and a talented Moss, who, at age 30, still had plenty of good football left in him...whom they were able to steal from Oakland for a 4th rounder due to Randy's unhappiness there, and the fact that he was owed a huge amount of money.      For these reasons, doesn't it make sense that BB might strongly consider trading a draft choice, and/or paying big money, for a proven deep threat like a Wallace, or the Jackson boys, DeSean or Vincent...than risk wasting another high draft choice on an unknown commodity at WR? Remember, Tom Brady turns 35 next season. He needs the help...NOW.        
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]
    I understand the point you're making that Moss was wanted but in the end he went for a fourth rounder. Its not like teams were banging down the door to get him. In hindsight it was a great move and steal but he and Wes Welker are the exception and not the rule.

    I also understand why you think they need to bring a FA but I'm saying that they won't because they have a dollar figure in mind and won't budge. Welker will probably be franchised and even if they sign him the team doesn't want to tie up a ton of money in WR. I'd say they're willing to pay another $6 mil a year for a WR and that's not top-flight money. Also, why tinker with the formula when it worked this year?

    I would actually rather have them take a swing at a first round WR than get one in FA because I don't think they'll spend the money on a top-flight FA.
     

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