Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

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    Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    Man, it seems like 2007 all over again, huh?

     

    First yesterday, www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2011/02/02/nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-alleges-that-patriots-coach-bill-belichick-deceived-him/ we got a random SpyGate update from Sports Illustrated’s Peter King, who wrote about NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell’s displeasure with coach Bill Belichick’s apology. And today? We can thank the folks at the SportsHub’s Felger & Mazz.

    They had on ex-Rams coach Dick Vermeilwho offered some interesting detail on the radio with them. (Thanks to J.J. for transcribing!)

    I don’t know if everyone was doing it, but everyone might’ve had a method of trying to do it,” Vermeil told 98.5 FM. “Maybe he did it better than everyone else. OK? And I’ll tell you this: In all honesty, I’ve coached as a head coach 15 years and an assistant four years, I know some things that have been done in the National Football League and I could document them, if I wanted to, that are far worse than that ever came close to being.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2011/02/03/former-rams-coach-dick-vermeil-provides-todays-spygate-update-what-is-this-2007/

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    This comment will be swept under the rug because it exonerates the pats, which doesn't sell newspapers or appease new yorkers.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    #1 Good Find vertigho

    #2 EXACTLY what Dick Vermeil said right here ("...everyone might've had a method for trying to do it. Maybe he did it better than everyone else")- IS, especially in light of a few other gutsy enough to be outspoken NFL Coaches (or ex-coaches), and who've stated several remarks, ALL summarily concluding with the likes of: "We tried it, but we didn't see any real benefits to doing it to focus our time/resources (on taping other team's plays/signals/formations, etc)."  THIS is what I've always taken away from "SpyGate"...Bill Belichick, as usual, FOUND a way to use part of this, to his benefit (AND/OR, THIS is what other team's coaches: Ratgini and/or Goodell, were worried enough about him even "potentially" benefitting from it).  And NO, this ain't a troll invite (considering that BB's winning percentage is actually MUCH better, POST spygate)...  This IS about Bill Belichick devising (or "potentially devising") a BETTER and/or meaningful way that he COULD use this...

    ....Bringing
    me....
    ....To

    #3...And Goodell, said "No More (of this taping) People....ALL people."  ...And Belichick didn't listen...AND this 1 game of contempt, COST him AND NE H-U-G-E...

    ...Bringing
    me....
    ....back to:

    #4...Goodell attempting to reawaken this.  Obviously akin to, "Hey, What IS all this talk about me destroying the Pro Football League with: 'Excessive & Insanely obscure fining for-High Hits, Late Hits, Low Hits, Hard Hits...ANY hits- PI calling; AND The Players not ONLY calling me out on being by far the most determined Commissioner to change the very fabric of this successfully #1 Pro Sport, AND failing to get a new CBA through, AND further muddying the waters with this 18 game increase to Players....?!?!"  "Look, look," Goodell's essentially sayin', "Now calm down, And remember this: I AM NOT A BAD GUY...THIS Guy (BB & Spygate)-Remember THIS Guy?!?! HE was a Bad Guy...let's talk about that REAL bad guy some more, and again...".

    And...
    ....apparently
    Some Peers of BB in being NFL Head Coaches...

    #5...Have had enough.  Vermeill stating this is an inotherwords of: "STFU-Goodell.  He (BB) paid his debt.  It's over.  You wanna slander him some more, and people like ME, will spill some sh#t on the REAL dirty stuff that went on." 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    Lmao yeah this will never be spoken about in the media because they cannot admit they were wrong. 

    ESPN isnt going to show the story line "Dick Vermeil says worst goes on in the NFL than spygate!" Never will you hear that. You have guys on a panel that have called our players "Just a guy" or our coach an a hole. 


     
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    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    In Response to Dick Vermeil on SpyGate. : I don't know why you Pats fans waste time on any of this. No one but Jets fans and BSPN cares or takes it seriously. I have never heard a Giants fan bring it up-before or after SB 42. I don't think any other fans harp on this "spygate" stuff. You Pats fans shouldn't even bother listening or responding to this stuff. It's all media created cr*p.
    Posted by JintsFan


    Because JintsFan, just b/c your Both a Fan of a team & a logical Fan himself, that takes accountability for your successes &/or failures, it doesn't mean everyon else is...sorry.


    And so, it never goes away, NEVER goes away...

    Did it go away when Pennsylvania Senator, Arlen Specter told reporters the "Spygate" case against the New England Patriots involved four games against the Steelers, including two AFC championship games. Specter told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette "I think Steelers fans have a lot to be concerned about this and I'm one of them...maybe Steelers ownership should think about it a little,"?  
        And then Two days later, Steelers chairman Dan Rooney rebuffed Specter, stating that "We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue. In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games...telling Specter that we essentially don't need him as an excuse & ta just get an f'n life (or job)?

    No...

    Did it go away when sc#m reporter John Tomase broke the story the day before the Patriots' appearance in Super Bowl XLII, the Boston Herald reported, citing an unnamed source, that a member of the Patriots video staff (Matt Walsh) videotaped the St. Louis Rams' Saturday walkthrough prior to Super Bowl XXXVI at the Louisiana Superdome?

    No...

    And did it go away when On February 15, 2008, former Rams safety Willie Gary filed a $100 million lawsuit in a New Orleans, Louisiana United States district court against the Patriots, Belichick, and Patriots owner Robert Kraft seeking compensation for the Rams' Super Bowl XXXVI loss in light of the allegations?[41] 
         Except that The lawsuit was withdrawn on March 10, 2008, after Gary's lawyers called securing testimony from Walsh regarding his possible knowledge of the allegation an "exercise in futility." 

    And did it go away after Matt Walsh FINALLY met with Roger Goodell & they signed an indemnity agreement, which meant Walsh wouldn't be punished for his actions...?
         Walsh then summarily told Goodell that told Goodell in the meeting that there was no tape of the Rams' walkthrough before Super Bowl XXXVI, that nobody asked Walsh to tape it, and that Walsh was not aware of anyone else who had taped it (that's pretty good evidence, right?).
         Walsh also told Goodell during the morning interview that the Patriots had, against league rules, used a player on injured reserve during a practice in 2001, and that Walsh had scalped Super Bowl tickets for certain players also during that time.[12] While Goodell said that the use of the injured reserve player in a practice would normally result in a team fine, he would not levy additional fines against the team or Belichick after issuing $750,000 worth in fines collectively after the initial incident in September 2007.[12] Walsh also told Goodell he was not aware of the Patriots bugging locker rooms, manipulating communications systems or crowd noise, or placing microphones on players to record signals or audibles; all were allegations made against the Patriots at one point or another.

    Did it go away then...?

    No.

    And did it go away when Further, Walsh revealed to Goodell that the tapes of the signals stayed with Walsh throughout the game, were not processed during halftime, and were given to Patriots Football Research Director Ernie Adams after the game?[53]
         Goodell, who acknowledged in September 2007 that the tapes gave the Patriots no competitive advantage while the game was underway,[20] reiterated the fact that the tapes were not processed during halftime in his post-meeting press conference, but said he had never accepted Belichick's interpretation of the rules as not prohibiting tapes that are not used within the same game...

    No.

    Did it go away when Walsh & Specter met, and then Specter & Goodell, and then we never heard from Arlen Specter again (Specter realizing that all his brash talk was, umm- Laughable, in light of zero actual credibility)?

    No...

    When The Herald apoligized for their misstory on Matt Walsh?

    No...

    When NE was fined, AND Belichick was fined, AND New England lost a 1st rd Draft Pick?

    No....

    And Is it gonna go away now?

    You know.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    Don't forget the Lets fan that is a lawyer and re-activating his lawsuit as well over this.

    Plus you still ahve player that lost to the Patriots still saying put an * next to the SB wins - most of the Steelers and with ex-steeler Joey Porter being the one of the loudest ones? Even T Suggs brings it up every now and then, when he is not sending his love to Brady...

    Then in different forums on the web you ahve other fans from other teams bring up Belicheat or the Cheatriots, etc... so this is not over and never will be over.

    Anyway Peter King is a db on this subject and is the only mediawhure to still bring this topic up once a month....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    Don't forget the Lets fan that is a lawyer and re-activating his lawsuit as well over this. Plus you still ahve player that lost to the Patriots still saying put an * next to the SB wins - most of the Steelers and with ex-steeler Joey Porter being the one of the loudest ones? Even T Suggs brings it up every now and then, when he is not sending his love to Brady... Then in different forums on the web you ahve other fans from other teams bring up Belicheat or the Cheatriots, etc... so this is not over and never will be over. Anyway Peter King is a db on this subject and is the only mediawhure to still bring this topic up once a month....
    Posted by Patriots1970


    No Steelers...well, maybe players who didn't fit in AS an actual Steeler.
    No Giants Fans, and not even any real Philly or St Louis Fans (other teams that have experienced successes in good degrees).

    Jets's Fans
    And Jets's Fans
    then former Jets's employees
    Then a few whining Colts's Fans
    Then some more Jets's Fans
    Then garbage media outlets tailoring to sub 18 year olds, and Jets's Fans
    Then there are the Jets's Fans
    Then 1 or 2 guys go, "Hey guys, Go blue horsey-shoes!"
    Then Jets's Fans
    Then, someone in the media gets snubbed by Belichick never giving him even one'a BB's totally pointless soundbites, that he DOES actually try half-hearted giving...
    Then like, a few thousand more Jets's Fans
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate. : Because JintsFan , just b/c your Both a Fan of a team & a logical Fan himself, that takes accountability for your successes &/or failures, it doesn't mean everyon else is...sorry. And so, it never goes away, NEVER goes away... Did it go away when Pennsylvania Senator, Arlen Specter told reporters the "Spygate" case against the New England Patriots involved four games against the Steelers, including two AFC championship games. Specter told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette "I think Steelers fans have a lot to be concerned about this and I'm one of them...maybe Steelers ownership should think about it a little,"?       And then Two days later, Steelers chairman Dan Rooney rebuffed Specter, stating that "We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue. In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games...telling Specter that we essentially don't need him as an excuse & ta just get an f'n life (or job)? No... Did it go away when sc#m reporter John Tomase broke the story the day before the Patriots' appearance in Super Bowl XLII, the Boston Herald reported, citing an unnamed source, that a member of the Patriots video staff (Matt Walsh) videotaped the St. Louis Rams' Saturday walkthrough prior to Super Bowl XXXVI at the Louisiana Superdome ? No... And did it go away when On February 15, 2008, former Rams safety Willie Gary filed a $100 million lawsuit in a New Orleans, Louisiana United States district court against the Patriots, Belichick, and Patriots owner Robert Kraft seeking compensation for the Rams' Super Bowl XXXVI loss in light of the allegations? [ 41 ]        Except that The lawsuit was withdrawn on March 10, 2008, after Gary's lawyers called securing testimony from Walsh regarding his possible knowledge of the allegation an "exercise in futility."  And did it go away after Matt Walsh FINALLY met with Roger Goodell & they signed an indemnity agreement, which meant Walsh wouldn't be punished for his actions...?      Walsh then summarily told Goodell that told Goodell in the meeting that there was no tape of the Rams' walkthrough before Super Bowl XXXVI, that nobody asked Walsh to tape it, and that Walsh was not aware of anyone else who had taped it (that's pretty good evidence, right?).      Walsh also told Goodell during the morning interview that the Patriots had, against league rules, used a player on injured reserve during a practice in 2001, and that Walsh had scalped Super Bowl tickets for certain players also during that time. [ 12 ] While Goodell said that the use of the injured reserve player in a practice would normally result in a team fine, he would not levy additional fines against the team or Belichick after issuing $750,000 worth in fines collectively after the initial incident in September 2007. [ 12 ] Walsh also told Goodell he was not aware of the Patriots bugging locker rooms, manipulating communications systems or crowd noise, or placing microphones on players to record signals or audibles; all were allegations made against the Patriots at one point or another. Did it go away then...? No. And did it go away when Further, Walsh revealed to Goodell that the tapes of the signals stayed with Walsh throughout the game, were not processed during halftime, and were given to Patriots Football Research Director Ernie Adams after the game? [ 53 ]      Goodell, who acknowledged in September 2007 that the tapes gave the Patriots no competitive advantage while the game was underway, [ 20 ] reiterated the fact that the tapes were not processed during halftime in his post-meeting press conference, but said he had never accepted Belichick's interpretation of the rules as not prohibiting tapes that are not used within the same game... No. Did it go away when Walsh & Specter met, and then Specter & Goodell, and then we never heard from Arlen Specter again (Specter realizing that all his brash talk was, umm- Laughable, in light of zero actual credibility)? No... When The Herald apoligized for their misstory on Matt Walsh? No... When NE was fined, AND Belichick was fined, AND New England lost a 1st rd Draft Pick? No.... And Is it gonna go away now? You know.
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium

    For the commissioner to take away a first round pick and still be talking about it 4 years later, Walsh had to of said something during that meeting, rather than there was no tape, nobody told me to do it, etc, etc. Either that or the commissioner really is a terrible, dumb, ignorant moron (which he may be).

    I love Vermeil, I thought he was a tremendous coach that would attack your weaknesses and cover up his (like Belichick). When he says he has seen far worse in the NFL than spygate, it makes you wonder what it was...throwing games? Stealing playbooks? Leaving bags of cash to players? Steroids? Tampering? I'm sure it all happens and unfortunately we got caught for something that is small by comparison.

    We win another Super Bowl and it goes way a little bit. We win two and maybe it disappears.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rodimus77. Show Rodimus77's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    its brought up because every boston media outlet wants an opinion from everyone they can ask who might know something about it.  The local media perpetuates this story as much as anyone.
    Posted by UD6


    And then there people like you who are quoted as saying something similar like this "have yet to win a Superbowl since the cameras were taken away" and "The Pats have three tainted Superbowls". Now that's not quote for quote but you have said something similar to that on multiple times Mr. Anyone!
     
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    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    I appreciate the honesty from Dick Vermeil, but just like Cowhers comments, where was this story in 2007?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    Primary sourced comments like this prove it was a witch hunt.  And Underpants:  King and Goodell perpetuated the story this week. Neither work for the Boston media. Now go and take those IQ pills so you can at least tie your shoes this morning. Imagine if Goodell had done his homework, incorporated other contexts (violations and punishments) before making a mountain out of a mole hill? Christ, his ego is out of control.
    Posted by BBReigns


    I didn't start the talk of spygate this week.  It was brought up by a pats fan responding to the king article. 
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rodimus77. Show Rodimus77's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate. : I didn't start the talk of spygate this week.  It was brought up by a pats fan responding to the king article. 
    Posted by UD6

     Who said you did? I just find it odd that you of all people would make the comment you just stated.
     
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    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

     

    Spygate....  Tempest meet tea pot. 


    However, think about it.  In the never ending NFL soap opera, which is everything that goes on except the games, this event gives hope and excuses to the loser teams that have suffered watching the PATS be good year after year.  The fans of opposing teams and especially a certain division rival from the late State of New Jersey, can latch onto that and say to themselves that this is the reason for the PATS three Super Bowl wins in a decade.  We know its not true but it does provide that avenue of solace to the losers. In their hearts, they know it isn't true either but they need that mirage of a little bit of light to ease the darkness in their souls for having lost and lost and lost. We should be ignoring it, exactly the way Bill does, so they can gain nothing in terms of solace from us.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauldeba. Show pauldeba's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    If everyone tried to do it, why wasn't everyone changing signals for the second game?  You have to believe they changed signals.

    Again, I don't see the difference between stealing signs with a camera and then catching them with binoculars and transmitting them and stealing signs with binoculars and then catching them with binoculars and transmitting them.  One is recorded, the other isn't, the ability to diminish the defensive set is identical.

    It seems pretty obvious stealing signs does very little to the game.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    Jeez killa, I have a name! I thought you were better than that.


    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    The first person who responded to this had it 100% right, this story will be swept under the rug. This is one of many quotes from people in the know who have said that far worse things go on in the NFL then "spygate" and yet none of those quotes ever make it to ESPN. But one guy on the Ravens,Steelers,Eagles,Jets, or Dolphins say that the Pats should get the asterisk next to their super bowls and its all over ESPN. Its this kind of stuff that made me boycott ESPN since 2007 I have not watched, read, or listened to anything ESPN. When a reporter I like or respect goes to work for ESPN like say Mike Reiss I cut all ties to that reporter. Cause anyone and everyone who works for ESPN is a puppet.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    Alright - a couple of points and then I am done with this unless someone feels the need to really engage me in this issue. 

    The punishment in my opinion was this. 

    The pats, as well as possibly one other team were caught doing this in 2006.  I am willing to bet that they were notified by the league and told to stop.  I imagine, that these couple of case triggered the memo, to reiterate the seriousness of the league's position on the matter, that was sent out prior to the 2007 season.  When the patriots were caught a second time after the memo, I imagine that the new commissioner felt that he wasn't taken seriously by Belichick.  

    I figure the commissioner intended to send a message through a harsh penalty that included a public apology delivered in a press conference setting.  When Belichick snubbed Goodell a second time, I figure the penalty got stronger. 

    This wasn't a witch hunt or anything like that.  Goodell doesn't control the media.  Belichick put himself in a position to be hounded based on his treatment of the media.  That's the reality.  Add to that the success the pats had during his tenure there, and the story gets juicier. 

    As for the stories that are cited re: Cowher and Vermeil, these were produced through local boston media outlets, not the national media.  By and large, I don't think the national media cares anymore.  Only the local media does. 
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    No it's all good I just wanted to give you a hard time.

    "Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax.."

    In Response to Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.:
    My bad Rockdog i was being lazy LOL much respect my brother lol
    Posted by MVPkilla4life

     
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    Re: Dick Vermeil on SpyGate.

    I had never seen Cowher's comments (from about this time last year I think). They are copied here in case anyone else hasn't seen them.  Probably the only point not covered in the very well written summary by Lazurus...

    "The Spygate investigation included two victories over Cowher's Steelers in the '01 and '04 AFC Championship Games."

    "Cowher seems to absolve the Patriots for any wrongdoing."

    "Listen, there's people stealing signals all the time before that," Cowher said. "You have ways to hide those things. We had wristbands for our defense. I remember trying to get offensive plays and see what the formations were. Everybody knows."

    "You're trying to gain a competitive edge. Did that go beyond it? To a degree. Do I think that helped them win football games? No. You still have to go out and play the game. I still have a hard time believing that was a difference in a game."
     
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